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McLaren-Honda MP4-30 V


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#1 artista

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 13:51

Part I
Part II
Part III
Part IV

Please, continue discussing the MP4-30 here

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#2 kosmos

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 13:55

Before this part ends we will get more points, believe!.  :wave: 



#3 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 13:58

Before this part ends we will get more points, believe!.  :wave:

Its worth a bet?



#4 blacky

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 13:59

And again I want to write it down in the new thread: 

When the AMuS story is correct that they are loosing 2 sec here only due to the engine, the chassis is not that bad compared to Ferrari or Williams for example.



#5 KingTiger

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:00

This might be the worst job such a highly funded team has ever done in F1. 



#6 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:02

And again I want to write it down in the new thread: 

When the AMuS story is correct that they are loosing 2 sec here only due to the engine, the chassis is not that bad compared to Ferrari or Williams for example.

I read that. The McLaren engineers thinking that they're losing 2 sec due to the engine. And some additional tenths due to the fact that tyre temps are not right because the car is slowly. They think that the chassis is 0.5 seconds slower than the Merc chassis. But its nothing new. We already know that the chassis is decent.



#7 CPR

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:06

And again I want to write it down in the new thread: 

When the AMuS story is correct that they are loosing 2 sec here only due to the engine, the chassis is not that bad compared to Ferrari or Williams for example.

 

Pretty hard to tell right now, unfortunately. That's one of the problems with every circuit being different - we can only see relative improvements and absolute improvement is pure guesswork. We seem to have big issues with the medium tire again (was similar story in Spain) but even with that I'm struggling to understand how we can be behind Sauber.

 

I think it's reasonable to believe the team when they say that the upgrades are working (which they did apparently at Austria) but the problem seems to be that there's been too many races with no upgrades.

 

Was surprised that Fernando kinda "wrote off" Hungary. I thought that was supposed to be a circuit that would suit the car. He said he wanted answers from this weekend but right now all we have is more questions.

 

Hope we can at least get two cars to the end of the race (only happened once so far this year).



#8 kosmos

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:35

Its worth a bet?

 

What do you want to beat?.



#9 totgate

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:37

Honda ought to be so ashamed of them selves that they commit "Harakiri" the whole bunch of them. It's an absolut disgrace that they underestimated the challenge of building one these disgusting "Power Units" I really think Mclaren would be better off if they built their own powertrain. It's hard to imagine how it could be any worse, Mclaren should stop racing immeditely and come back next season with a PU they've designed and built inhouse



#10 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:37

I read that. The McLaren engineers thinking that they're losing 2 sec due to the engine. And some additional tenths due to the fact that tyre temps are not right because the car is slowly. They think that the chassis is 0.5 seconds slower than the Merc chassis. But its nothing new. We already know that the chassis is decent.

 

I see, so being 1.5 seconds behind, the chassis must be 0.5 seconds better than the Mercedes. :rolleyes:

 

The chassis is a world beater in its first year with Prodromou and after a poor 2013 and 2014.

 

Make some sense please.


Edited by TakataDomeNSX, 04 July 2015 - 15:03.


#11 anyeis

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:39

Benson saying Alonso used Buttons tires. DQ



#12 f1tomi8

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:43

Benson saying Alonso used Buttons tires. DQ

What?  :o  How could this happen? :mad:



#13 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:45

I see, so being 1.8 seconds behind, the chassis must be 0.2 seconds better than the Mercedes. :rolleyes:

 

The chassis is a world beater in its first year with Prodromou and after a poor 2013 and 2014.

 

Make some sense please.

Medium vs. Prime tyres.....so it could be actually true....



#14 f1tomi8

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:45

Team fault!

Eric Boullier confirms the tyre error by McLaren so it's probably back of the grid for Alonso after using one of Button's tyres....Ridiculous



#15 CPR

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:46

I was hoping to chart the teams progress up the grid with these graphs...
 
i-DD3nZBT.png
 
i-PLVh25X.png
 
i-J4Sg6CK.png
 
i-ZC4sTqT.png


Here's the kicker: we were slower than Manor through the speed trap. Jenson 19th, Fernando 20th. Seriously.

If it's going to be that bad, just stick a new engine in and take the hit. At least get some proper mileage. Or did the FIA warn the team that doing that every race could trigger a "bringing the sport into disrepute" situation?

#16 kosmos

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:47

  :drunk:

 

They can't get something as simple as a tyre swap correctly?.



#17 RedOne

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:47

@F1: Early on, McLaren tell @alo_oficial he's in P1...

"Can you take a photo of it?!?" replies Fernando

#BritishGP #FP3 http://t.co/nHRefSytdJ

:D

#18 realracer200

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:48

It's impossible to translate it into numbers but it is quite clear that the chassis is actually really good. Only need to compate Monaco to Canada/Austria/Silverstone.



#19 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:49

Team fault!

Eric Boullier confirms the tyre error by McLaren so it's probably back of the grid for Alonso after using one of Button's tyres....Ridiculous

 

It is OK, its easy to get in front of Manors with Alonso lightning start.



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#20 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:50

What do you want to beat?.

Whatever you want. Maybe an avatar change for one week? Or just a bet for the honour?  ;)

 

I hope I will loose it. I feel extremly sorry for Nando and Jenson. They deserved a decent car. And they would deserved to fight for the championship instead.....



#21 charly0418

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:50

Let's blame the engine



#22 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:52

Honda ought to be so ashamed of them selves that they commit "Harakiri" the whole bunch of them. It's an absolut disgrace that they underestimated the challenge of building one these disgusting "Power Units" I really think Mclaren would be better off if they built their own powertrain. It's hard to imagine how it could be any worse, Mclaren should stop racing immeditely and come back next season with a PU they've designed and built inhouse

 

 

That would be illegal, as they have a contract to appear at every race, bar extreme circumstance. And even then they only get a maximum of 2 non-appearances if I'm not wrong.



#23 kosmos

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:52

It is OK, its easy to get in front of Manors with Alonso lightning start.

 

 

Is not OK, with this he lose the chance to gain a couple of proper places and he will be stuck with Button not able to take risks.



#24 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:52

Is not OK, with this he lose the chance to gain a couple of proper places and he will be stuck with Button not able to take risks.

 

Who cares, according to all the naysayers, due to the "crap" engine, they will be overtaken eventually on the straights anyway.



#25 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:53

I was hoping to chart the teams progress up the grid with these graphs...

(...)
If it's going to be that bad, just stick a new engine in and take the hit. At least get some proper mileage. Or did the FIA warn the team that doing that every race could trigger a "bringing the sport into disrepute" situation?

 

At least it is difficult to imagine the FIA condoning this, considering the overhauling of engine penalty rules. Imagine Sauber's justified outrage if in every race McLaren qualifies right in front of them (edit: or right behind) and after taking an engine penalty ends up basically up their ass on the grid.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 04 July 2015 - 14:55.


#26 SamH123

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:54

Here's the kicker: we were slower than Manor through the speed trap. Jenson 19th, Fernando 20th. Seriously.

If it's going to be that bad, just stick a new engine in and take the hit. At least get some proper mileage. Or did the FIA warn the team that doing that every race could trigger a "bringing the sport into disrepute" situation?

 

 

I think I read in the previous Mclaren thread that they actually only have 2 working engines right now, maybe they're waiting to build new ones until they understand the problems and how to build a new one better


Edited by SamH123, 04 July 2015 - 14:54.


#27 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:54

It's impossible to translate it into numbers but it is quite clear that the chassis is actually really good. Only need to compate Monaco to Canada/Austria/Silverstone.

 

Please do, and make sure your in-depth analysis is easy to understand.

 

Otherwise it's just an opinion that carries as much weight as a feather (as is everyone else's including mine).


Edited by TakataDomeNSX, 04 July 2015 - 14:55.


#28 kosmos

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:55

Whatever you want. Maybe an avatar change for one week? Or just a bet for the honour?  ;)

 

I hope I will loose it. I feel extremly sorry for Nando and Jenson. They deserved a decent car. And they would deserved to fight for the championship instead.....

 

 

Fine, avatar change for 1 week sounds good to me :)

 

 

cje_nycxaaqdqlcnmqmg.jpg
 
 
 


#29 krumpli12

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 14:58

It is OK, its easy to get in front of Manors with Alonso lightning start.


I laughed out loud when I read that from Spa there will be manual starts: there goes the only technical part which McLaren got right. (Whereas Fernando's starts are mega, Jenson's are good too, I think McLaren has a great start mode. So that will be taken away too, obviously.)

#30 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:00

I laughed out loud when I read that from Spa there will be manual starts: there goes the only technical part which McLaren got right. (Whereas Fernando's starts are mega, Jenson's are good too, I think McLaren has a great start mode. So that will be taken away too, obviously.)

 

I think Alonso still did get better starts than all his team mates.

 

If manual starts will be mandated, I think Alonso will show us even better starts than he gets now.

 

This decision for me is a plus.



#31 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:03

 

Fine, avatar change for 1 week sounds good to me :)

Fine :up:

 

If you're loosing (what I wont hope) I will tell you than which avatar you have to use :smoking:


Edited by Marklar, 04 July 2015 - 15:05.


#32 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:05

Medium vs. Prime tyres.....so it could be actually true....

 

http://www.gptoday.c...ck_the_maximum/

 

"It sounds strange but this is the best qualifying for the year for us being only 1.5s off the leader with the same tyres".



#33 FrontWing

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:09

Team fault!

Eric Boullier confirms the tyre error by McLaren so it's probably back of the grid for Alonso after using one of Button's tyres....Ridiculous

Just got to laugh.  :rotfl:

 

Surely they cant fall much lower before they start to rise. They really could learn a thing or two from the far lower budget teams.


Edited by FrontWing, 04 July 2015 - 15:10.


#34 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:09

http://www.gptoday.c...ck_the_maximum/

 

"It sounds strange but this is the best qualifying for the year for us being only 1.5s off the leader with the same tyres".

The comparison in AMuS was made with Mercedes and Mercedes have just used the hard tyre in Q1 and was 1.5s faster, so it seems to fit....



#35 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:10

Just got to laugh.  :rotfl:

 

Surely they cant fall much lower before they start to rise.

Now you jinx it......



#36 Rhardrks

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:14

This might be the worst job such a highly funded team has ever done in F1. 

 

They are going to lose close to $100 million in prize money this year.
 



#37 Rhardrks

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:17

I read that. The McLaren engineers thinking that they're losing 2 sec due to the engine. And some additional tenths due to the fact that tyre temps are not right because the car is slowly. They think that the chassis is 0.5 seconds slower than the Merc chassis. But its nothing new. We already know that the chassis is decent.

 

The McLaren chasis was rubbish last year with the best engine. There is no real evidence it's so special now. A good engine would expose any flaws in the chassis. With the lemon Honda unit any chassis would look good.



#38 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:22

The McLaren chasis was rubbish last year with the best engine. There is no real evidence it's so special now. A good engine would expose any flaws in the chassis. With the lemon Honda unit any chassis would look good.

I think with Prodromou it could be different. He is since the mid season of 2014 at McLaren and with his updates at the end of the season McLaren surpassed in terms of speed last year Ferrari. And 0.5 seconds regarding the chassis behind Mercedes would be stil too much in my opinion....



#39 Flyhigh

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:33

It was pretty clear to me at Barcelona that they were not going anywhere this season anymore, until Barcelona at the rate they were progressing It really seemed believable the whole BS stories fueled by the team about engines only being at 70% and it was only a matter of getting more reliability to see major easy improvements and that at Barcelona we were going to see major evolution, as the season progressed this is clearly not the case and just BS. That progress at the beginning of the season just seems now like taking out the absolute rust, just enough to overtake Manor.  

This season is nothing short of disappointing for both Honda and Mclaren. The only hope people hang on to are fan boys theories about aggressive engine designs and things like that, which are not holding any weight and sounds more and more like trying to put sprinkles on crap, to little for me to continue to hope seeing major improvements, I am off this boat. And not just the engine, but the chassi and team operations as well. Of course, this is now basically an engine spec series, so it holds more weight than anything else.    

They need to reshape their project, they can't just hope that Manor or anyone would actually want to "buy" their wholly crap engines to use, they need to actually support or even put in money for people to take on their engine and run it as a b testing team, like a Toro Rosso of sorts,that is just basic at this point if they really want to go anywhere, I don't know what their planning is if this "aggressive design" continues to show is not taking them anywhere, at some point you need to call it a day and go into another direction while is there is still time for next season.   

At some point you just got to stop trying to put sprinkles on crap, accept it and move on. 



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#40 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:36

It was pretty clear to me at Barcelona that they were not going anywhere this season anymore, until Barcelona at the rate they were progressing It really seemed believable the whole BS stories fueled by the team about engines only being at 70% and it was only a matter of getting more reliability to see major easy improvements and that at Barcelona we were going to see major evolution, as the season progressed this is clearly not the case and just BS. That progress at the beginning of the season just seems now like taking out the absolute rust, just enough to overtake Manor.  
This season is nothing short of disappointing for both Honda and Mclaren. The only hope people hang on to are fan boys theories about aggressive engine designs and things like that, which are not holding any weight and sounds more and more like trying to put sprinkles on crap, to little for me to continue to hope seeing major improvements, I am off this boat. And not just the engine, but the chassi and team operations as well. Of course, this is now basically an engine spec series, so it holds more weight than anything else.    
They need to reshape their project, they can't just hope that Manor or anyone would actually want to "buy" their wholly crap engines to use, they need to actually support or even put in money for people to take on their engine and run it as a b testing team, like a Toro Rosso of sorts,that is just basic at this point if they really want to go anywhere, I don't know what their planning is if this "aggressive design" continues to show is not taking them anywhere, at some point you need to call it a day and go into another direction while is there is still time for next season.   
At some point you just got to stop trying to put sprinkles on crap, accept it and move on.

I read somewhere that Manor have even reduced their gap in terms of relative pace to McLaren. I will check it out later if its true.

#41 Supertourer

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:37

They are going to lose close to $100 million in prize money this year.
 

Yep and I bet the McLaren shareholders are going to love digging even deeper to fund the team after Ron's protestation that they didn't need a title sponsor as the McLaren Group would fund it, this was of course after failing to find a title sponsor and then telling us all the title sponsors are a thing of the past...

 

Aside from the engine issues, the team doesn't look the micro efficient organisation it once was.



#42 argiriano

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:46

The new front wing finaly get a shot. They going back to last year end plate arangement without cutouts which shorten the main wing elements a bit. 

 

0687452.jpg

 

And a proper pic of the double gurney flap above diffuser 

0687395.jpg



#43 FrontWing

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:49

Only Solution....

 

pile-of-money.png +272.jpg



#44 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:51

Let's blame the engine

 

it's not obvious?



#45 nosecone

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 15:51

hmm... As many threads as destroyed Honda engines


Edited by nosecone, 04 July 2015 - 16:20.


#46 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 16:08

CJFQj3kWUAEFosr.jpg



#47 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 16:12

it's not obvious?

 

No



#48 YoungGun

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 16:19

So that's how he beats his team mates?  ;)



#49 Marklar

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 16:20

CJFQj3kWUAEFosr.jpg

Thats really generous. Which means that others can also do that due to a "communication error" and would just get a remprimant. Interesting.



#50 F1Champion

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 16:24

I always thought that Ross Brawn would like to have worked with McLaren as he would be based in England it wouldn't have been such a big move unlike the Ferrari move to another country. Another challenge at McLaren and the chance to take them to the top would be great but Ron would have to permanently not be present at all (ever). That's the price to secure the talent.