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Aston Martin in F1 talks with Red Bull over Mercedes engine deal


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#1 SophieB

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:11

In a deal that is currently still under negotiation, Aston Martin would become brand partner with four-time world champion team Red Bull Racing in exchange for brokering a deal for it to run the dominant Mercedes F1 engine.

 

 

Under the deal Mercedes would be recognised as the official engine supplier of Red Bull, but Aston Martin would become a partner and have branding on the cars.

The deal is said to have the blessing of Mercedes...

 

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/119849

 

So, Red Bull to (maybe) dump Renault and run with Mercedes engines next year unless I've majorly misread that. 



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#2 Mat13

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:17

So, Aston-Martin-Red-Bull-Mercedes. Bit of a mouthful.

#3 WilliamsF1Fan

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:20

Or maybe Mercedes Red Bull Aston Martin Racing...  Mr Bam Racing.  Sounds fast!  



#4 KingTiger

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:20

You gotta give Horner credit if he pulls it off. They haven't given a dime for engines since about 2010. First with Infinity, now possibly with these guys.

I guess Mercedes have realized that is better for their investment to have other teams competing with the works team, rather than them winning all the time. Too bad Ferrari never understood that in the early 00s.

#5 David Lightman

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:20

Do Mercedes customer teams definitely get the same engines as the works team? I know they say they do, but in reality? Are Mercedes just hoping/assuming Newey stays away?



#6 PAGATRON

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:23

Maybe they will badge the customer merc PU's as Aston Martin



#7 A3

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:27

But what will happen to Toro Rosso?



#8 charly0418

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:27

The Lotus-Renault rumor makes much more sense now...



#9 Mat13

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:28

Toro Rosso have had different engines to Ref Bull before.

#10 redraven9

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:31

Huh? Where did that come from?



#11 DS27

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:32

Well, I guess this makes sense after Mercedes bought into Aston a couple of years ago.



#12 Nonesuch

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:35

I guess Mercedes have realized that is better for their investment to have other teams competing with the works team, rather than them winning all the time. Too bad Ferrari never understood that in the early 00s.

 

The article explicitly states it is to offset costs, the thing Mercedes complains about every time somebody dares mention relaxing the restrictive engine regulations.

 

But sure, it's as good an opportunity as any to snipe away at Ferrari's actions of 10 to 15 years ago, when its main competitors had manufacturer's support of Mercedes and BMW.



#13 Ellios

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:38

One reason why some teams do not want to be a customer of Mercs engines

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/33043519



#14 Fastcake

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:42

Aston Martin and Red Bull aren't exactly two brands that fit naturally together. One is James Bond and style, the other is scruffy motocross riders and underage teens in clubs. Still, I suppose this will beat Infiniti and their staggeringly effective marketing strategy.

So, Aston-Martin-Red-Bull-Mercedes. Bit of a mouthful.


Almost as good as BMW Sauber Ferrari. Or the Lotus Renault's sponsored by Lada. Some great brand synergy there, to use a bit of marketing-speak.  ;)

#15 just me again

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:43

Think Torro Rosso will be on life support only, and if Renault quits, not there at all.

 

Bjørn



#16 jcpower13

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:45

Could you imagine James Bond if he had to drink the abomination that is Red Bull? Could see him paying Dietrich Mateschitz a 'visit'.



#17 jannyg

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:48

I had a feeling this could happen. 

 

<http://forums.autosp...hitz/?p=7209233>

 

Knew this was on the cards when Merc and Red Bull started to get pally. It works for both, make it happen. Would be massive


Edited by jannyg, 04 July 2015 - 20:50.


#18 BRG

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:48

Could see him paying Dietrich Mateschitz a 'visit'.

Dietrich would make a fine Bond villain, with his mountain lair at Speilberg.  And his henchmen Helmut und Christian.


Edited by BRG, 04 July 2015 - 20:49.


#19 ninetyzero

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:51

So, Aston-Martin-Red-Bull-Mercedes. Bit of a mouthful.

 

I read the story as Mercedes customer engines being badged as Aston Martin.



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#20 pRy

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:52

Does anyone know what EJ was referring to on BBC when he suggested Ron Dennis has questioned Christian Horner's commitment to Redbull? Are McLaren trying to poach him or is he suggesting Horner is going to do something else?



#21 DS27

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:56

F1 2016 just got interesting.



#22 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 20:56

Does anyone know what EJ was referring to on BBC when he suggested Ron Dennis has questioned Christian Horner's commitment to Redbull? Are McLaren trying to poach him or is he suggesting Horner is going to do something else?


http://www1.skysport...ion-at-red-bull

Christian Horner has revealed to Sky Sports he has signed a contract extension at Red Bull, committing his long-term future to the team and rubbishing reports he was set to be axed.

Rumours spread after the Austrian GP that a rival team principal had phoned Horner to commiserate on his impeding exit, with Red Bull founder Dietrich Mateschitz supposedly unhappy with the team’s results.

#23 Diablobb81

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:06

When I read the title I thought Aston would have built the engines. I had a good laugh, as in a Honda engine in F1 kind of laugh.

Would be an interesting deal with a Merc engine. But I have my doubts about how much chance a Merc customer has to fight for the title.

Edited by Diablobb81, 04 July 2015 - 21:06.


#24 ANF

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:08

A Vodka Red Bull. Shaken, not stirred. And don't drink and drive.



#25 f1RacingForever

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:14

This seems like a good opportunity for mercedes to raise the price of their PU. Make it expensive for RBR. They have little choice. That's good business.

#26 Jordan44

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:17

I don't think they should do it. They may find theirselves in a position where they know they'll never be able to beat the Mercedes works team to the title. Perhaps a win here or there, but it doesn't seem very ambitious to me. Just a quick route to a new engine and might not pay off.

#27 Risil

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:17

Mercedes looking to pull their F1 team, go back to being an engine supplier?



#28 AustinF1

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:17

One reason why some teams do not want to be a customer of Mercs engines

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/33043519

Video will not play in the U.S. Can you summarize?



#29 TimRTC

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:19

Would be an interesting deal with a Merc engine. But I have my doubts about how much chance a Merc customer has to fight for the title.

 

Much more chance than a Renault engine at the moment! It does make the arguments against having 'satellite' teams or 'customer' teams rather silly, when we are there already with the engine regulations.

 

This news does disappoint me in a way as it suggests Aston Martin won't be looking to re-enter LMP any time soon...



#30 Jordan44

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:23

Mercedes looking to pull their F1 team, go back to being an engine supplier?

No. Mercedes are here for a long time. That's a ridiculous thing to assume because they want to provide a team with engines. How about they want to earn more money and brand exposure?

To provide more than half the grid with engines, and a successful Mercedes works team shows domination of the sport. And that's the image they want to send out.

No idea why you would go there. Just look at the stats, Mercedes have had more success utilising their own engines than letting teams like McLaren try and win with them. Right now it's worth every penny.

Edited by J0rd4n, 04 July 2015 - 21:27.


#31 Imateria

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:24

I read the story as Mercedes customer engines being badged as Aston Martin.

Need o learn to read.

 

"Under the deal Mercedes would be recognised as the official engine supplier of Red Bull, but Aston Martin would become a partner and have branding on the cars."

 

I think that quite clearly means we're looking at an Aston Martin Red Bull Mercedes. Worst name in F1 history?



#32 Strontiumdog

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:30

I don't think they should do it. They may find theirselves in a position where they know they'll never be able to beat the Mercedes works team to the title. Perhaps a win here or there, but it doesn't seem very ambitious to me. Just a quick route to a new engine and might not pay off.

 

 

Didn't Redbull win in 2010 with a Renault engine over the Renault works team

I also recall 2009 when Brawn won with a Mercedes engine over the Mercedes works team (McLaren)


Edited by Strontiumdog, 04 July 2015 - 21:31.


#33 Grayson

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:31

If this comes to pass, they'll have to sign Kimi Raikkonen. The number 007 car should always be an Aston Martin!



#34 CurbPainter

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:34

Interesting news, a costumer engine of Mercedes would be better as one from Ferrari.

 

Pat Symonds still thinks it's possible to win with a costumer enigine...

 

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns31151.html



#35 RealRacing

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:37

Was it Marko that said Red Bull would never use customer engines?  I mean, if Mercedes really wants to "help" others, there should be a way to make sure the PUs they are providing are exactly the same as the ones for the works team. At the end of the day it's a business deal; it'd only be a matter of putting the right clauses in and make sure they are enforced. Seems F1 is heading in the direction of a spec engine: Ferrari-Mercedes anyone?



#36 BRG

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:41

Not a good deal for Aston to my mind.  It will always be called a Red Bull, or maybe a RB-Mercedes, but Aston will get about as much air time as Infiniti have.  



#37 HP

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:42

My mind works a bit different.

 

Alternatively to what is being presented

 

.. is this a plot to give Renault a wake up call? I mean, Red Bull saying: we've got an alternative if you don't work out the engine issues.

 

.. is is it a ploy to get around teams per engine ratio restrictions?



#38 CurbPainter

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:51

Not a good deal for Aston to my mind.  It will always be called a Red Bull, or maybe a RB-Mercedes, but Aston will get about as much air time as Infiniti have.  

 

It depends, if the cars have predominately AM sponsoring and to a lesser extend RB, it could work.



#39 Ellios

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:54

Video will not play in the U.S. Can you summarize?

 

It's basically a very honest response from Jonathan Neale who's saying Merc will not release all of the full works team information to customer teams, a bit like satellite teams in MotoGP, so that is why McLaren went with Honda, because they will never be allowed to beat the works team, that's just the way it is

 

Red Bull going to Merc engines, better have way better aero because they won't get everything from Merc engine team



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#40 noikeee

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 21:54

Why would Mercedes want to give their superior engines to the team with the strongest aerodynamics department out there (besides their own team)?

 

And why is this deal dependent on Aston Martin? Surely the main issue is what powers the car, not who replaces Infiniti?


Edited by noikeee, 04 July 2015 - 21:54.


#41 YoungGun

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:08

So I suppose the first generation Aston-Martin Red Bull car could be named Wing Machine 1



#42 nosecone

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:08

I thought i read somewhere out there that a engine supplier may not supply its engine to more than 4 teams?



#43 noikeee

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:09

I thought i read somewhere out there that a engine supplier may not supply its engine to more than 4 teams?

 

If Renault buys Lotus...

 

Plus I'm sure that rule can be circumvented politically easily.



#44 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:11

I remember this story from a few years ago, 2010 maybe? Autocar were reporting Aston Martin were going to go into F1, but using Merc engines. Which didn't make a lot of sense at the time, and still doesn't. The story was quickly taken down, I think even before Autosport managed to get to it, probably due to some well-placed phonecalls.

 

 

 

Found it. May 2009.

 

http://wot.motortren...-2012-5160.html


Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 04 July 2015 - 22:13.


#45 anbeck

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:13

So, Aston-Martin-Red-Bull-Mercedes. Bit of a mouthful.

 

Then it should be Aston-Martin-Red-Bull-Mercedes-Benz, just to go over the top.



#46 nosecone

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:16

Then it should be Aston-Martin-Red-Bull-Mercedes-Benz, just to go over the top.

 

Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Mercedes Benz

 

is going to present the new car

 

Aston MArtin Red BUll RAcing Mercedes Benz Hybrid 12 (AMRBRMBH 12 instead of RB12)



#47 CurbPainter

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:16

Why would Mercedes want to give their superior engines to the team with the strongest aerodynamics department out there (besides their own team)?

 

And why is this deal dependent on Aston Martin? Surely the main issue is what powers the car, not who replaces Infiniti?

 

Maybe Mercedes wants a bigger stake in AM also at the same time, and think more competition is good for F1 and by so also for them. If viewers are going away because of too little competition it's at the same time not good for Mercedes themselves.


Edited by CurbPainter, 04 July 2015 - 22:18.


#48 chhatra

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:27

One reason why some teams do not want to be a customer of Mercs engines

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/33043519


Video highlighting EJ's total incompetence. I mean he was grilling them about doing a charity dinner with the season they are having, come on.

What a great interview though, he should definitely do more.

#49 Exb

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:39

I thought i read somewhere out there that a engine supplier may not supply its engine to more than 4 teams?


An engine manufacturer needs FIA permission to supply more than 3 teams.

#50 CountDooku

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 22:41

Merc now own a bit of Aston Martin and will be supplying ALL Aston engines going forward for future road models (hasn't been mentioned in the thread so far).

I think Daimler will ultimately buy out Aston ala Bentley and Rolls Royce which would be great for Aston and give Daimler a true luxury brand with great recognition.

If this deal goes through, I think it will be with AM as the constructor, red bull as the sponsor, and a rebadged Merc engine.