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The DSM, a successful West Australian special


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#1 Terry Walker

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:15

Back in the early 1960s "Brave" Dave Sullivan, multiple local touring car championship winner, turned to single seater racing and in the manner of the times designed and built his own rear-engined car using the tried and tested combination of space frame, Peugeot engine and VW transaxle. And we have the pics:

 

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Edited by Terry Walker, 05 July 2015 - 11:16.


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#2 Terry Walker

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:19

Ah, the images work. Onwards and upwards

 

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More to come, when I resize them... Boy am I rusty at this.



#3 Terry Walker

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:31

The last few now I've got the hang of it.

 

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Dave went on to win the State's Racing Car Championship, in due course the car gained a fully independent rear end and a Holden 6 cyl "grey" motor instead of the Peugeot. was eventually retired from racing, made a comeback at the newly opened Ravenswood drag strip (fastest in the first season), and finally acquired a small Ford V8 was but never raced in that configuration.

 

When son Dave Sullivan Jr was of racing age, he made his debut at Caversham in his Dad's DSM,, and a few years later was racing his own U2 Clubman at Wanneroo.

 

Dave Sr is now 98 and in a nursing home, and Dave Jr has commissioned me to scan his Dad's ond photo albums.



#4 Terry Walker

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:33

Oh, and the car is still in the family, although the mild steel tube chassis is completely rusted out. The rest, including the hand-formed aluminium body, is in storage.



#5 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 12:00

Widened Simca wheels at the front?

I don't recognise the front uprights...

#6 Repco22

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 14:40

As I recall, Dave asked famous WA artist, the late Robert Juniper, to draw up the body, obviously inspired by the 'Sharknose' Ferrari.

                 Cliff Byfield then made the body.



#7 bradbury west

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 16:38

As ever, always very interested in this type of thing, so, from what make did they source the stub axles/kingpins/front uprights? Was the Peugeot from the 403?
Looking forward to more photographs.
Many thanks
Roger Lund

 

edit. Sorry Ray, I did not read your post fully re uprights. In enlargement  it looks as if they might have been cut and extended, which may account for the shepherd's crook element at the top.


Edited by bradbury west, 05 July 2015 - 18:06.


#8 Ray Bell

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 21:10

Roger, the odd bit with the uprights is the king pin setup...

Most of that kind of upright had ball joints for turning. Could they be some kind of BMC with the top bent over?

#9 bradbury west

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 22:33

Ray, looking by chance on the Revs/Mainlander archive , there is a shot of an f2 Simca front end. Uprights look very similar. Obviously they would have been cut and extended to give new top and bottom pivots. Does anyone have any other ideas?
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 05 July 2015 - 22:37.


#10 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 22:35

Widened Simca wheels at the front?

I don't recognise the front uprights...

They are weird. Greased pin lower are and a balljoint upper,, on a KING PIN suspension? It has to be fabricated, and wrong. It seems to have plenty of bump steer built in too! Early 60s would have had a variety of balljoint uprights available. The oft used Herald ones for instance. 

The rest of the car looks quite good for that period of car.

The bodywork is very pretty.

The clevis's in the rear will bind it up too. And load up the pick up points severely. This is with 50 years of hindsight and the ready supply of heim joints.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 05 July 2015 - 22:41.


#11 fnqvmuch

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 22:43

the Peugeot would be 203, with the long sump.



#12 bradbury west

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 22:46

Lee, the Simca has a yoke like that at the bottom, with a similar one at the top, changed on the DSM with a welded add on.
Roger Lund

#13 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 23:58

Lee, the Simca has a yoke like that at the bottom, with a similar one at the top, changed on the DSM with a welded add on.
Roger Lund

A king pin front suspension generally has a greased metal thread top and bottom. In effect a through bolt. This allows full up and down travel but no rotation at all. The steering is all pivoted on the king pins. A  perfectly functional system though overshadowed and replaced by the mid 60s at the latest by the ball joint where the ball joint allows up and down movement as well as steering rotation. Generally better steering geometry can be achieved also.

The king pin deal is really a throwback to beam axles where it is still used on most trucks. A beam axle has little choice!

As far as I remember  early Simcas were the norm as I described, in fact I feel later Simca Arondes [early 60s] were ball joint anyway.

With a king pin the only caster available is built in to the car, or possibly lay the crossmember back [ a racecar mod] Some have some camber adjustment by shimming the top wishbones in or concentrics in the lower. Otherwise camber is achieved by bending the upright. [again a racecar mod]

Neither is great on a road car however.


Edited by Lee Nicolle, 06 July 2015 - 00:13.


#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 00:27

The Simca Aronde, dating back to the mid-fifties, had a ball joint at the top at least...

This ball joint was slipped over a straight shaft on the upright and held in place by a roll pin. I don't remember what the bottom was, but I'm pretty sure there was no king pin.

Another car with the same wheel stud pattern from those times was the Skoda Octavia.

#15 ken devine

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 00:48

They are great shots Terry, i look foreward to seeing more.Dave was always very friendly to talk to.I well remember the championship he won it was against Don O'Sullivan's Cooper Climax on a wet track, Dave was very excited about it.I do hope he is keeping well.



#16 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 01:27

One thing I'd also like to know...

That Riley in the background, is that a Pathfinder or a Two Point Six?

#17 Terry Walker

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 02:54

The proof of the pudding:

 

1964 State Championships. Dave leads Hilton McGee (12), Wally Higgs, and well behind, Syd Negus (Repco Holden powered Cooper Bristol).

 

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#18 Terry Walker

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 02:58

Rare colour photos, one of its last appearances, Wanneroo Park probably 1969:

 

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That's Dave Jr in the beard, and in the background of the top shot you can see young Dave in his newly finished U2 Mk 8B.


Edited by Terry Walker, 06 July 2015 - 03:00.


#19 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 03:53

There's a photo in RCN showing the car at Wanneroo some time late in 1969...

But it doesn't appear to be painted that way.

I wonder, also, while they were altering the frame to take the Holden motor and fit the new rear suspension, did they perhaps do some nice triangulating?




.

Edited by Ray Bell, 06 July 2015 - 04:01.


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#20 smeetsie

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 03:54

If I am not mistaken, a couple of these cars finished up in Adelaide at one point. I remember finding a Peugeot powered openwheeler, a A series BMC powered open wheeler and an Austin 7 based midget speed car at a truckies place. The BMC powered car finished up with Peter Bail here in Adelaide, and I am pretty sure that was a Sullivan built car. Did he also have a Bacchus clubman sports car? It had B series BMC power, and I think once belonged to Garry Chapman here in SA. He went on to navigate in Ford rally cars.

Regards

Pete S.



#21 Terry Walker

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 04:02

It was probably repainted around then, maybe so the DSM and U2 matched. I think it used to be all silver-grey or something, and a plain number in a circle.  The only time I can find both cars at Wanneroo was September 69.

 

I doubt Dave Sullivan Sr ever built any other single seater, at least that I know of, but he might have done. Dave Jr built a couple of copies of his U2 Mk 8B at one stage, and at least one of them raced in WA for a while. Dave Sr was a purely a Holden Touring Car man until the DSM, punting an FX with triple SUs.


Edited by Terry Walker, 06 July 2015 - 04:07.


#22 ken devine

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 04:03

The BMC powered car would have been the one built by Jamie Gard,somebody in SA contacted me about the car sometime ago.Maybe Terry has a photo of that car in his files which he can post for comparison.Jamie's car was built sometime before Dave's.



#23 Terry Walker

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 04:45

The Jaime Gard car:

 

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#24 ken devine

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 06:23

Well done Terry.



#25 Gordon Graham

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 07:04

A couple more shots of the DSM, probably from around the time of that state championship win

 

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#26 bradbury west

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 08:47

A Pathfinder, Ray. Badge at the bottom of the front wing, chrome strips at the bottom of the front panel, different spotlights mounted lower, headlights with no cowls over the rims.... IMHO and I'd course the old Riley 2443cc engine. I cannot recall if the bonnet opening was different, just a normal lid for the 2.6 as opposed to a full grill inclusive maw for the Pathfinder.
Roger

#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 08:49

That's a 203 rocker cover...

So at least the head's from a 203. Blocks and sumps interchange.

#28 Repco22

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 09:22

The proof of the pudding:

 

1964 State Championships. Dave leads Hilton McGee (12), Wally Higgs, and well behind, Syd Negus (Repco Holden powered Cooper Bristol).

 

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Terry, I don't think that's Wally Higgs behind Hilton. Could be Vin Smith or maybe Bob McDowell. Apart from not looking like him, helmet or car, Wally would normally be out in front! He was a very small guy too. Must add that I haven't checked the list of starters. Re other Sullivan Senior-built open-wheelers.

I don't know of any.


Edited by Repco22, 06 July 2015 - 09:29.


#29 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 10:34

Originally posted by bradbury west
A Pathfinder, Ray. Badge at the bottom of the front wing, chrome strips at the bottom of the front panel, different spotlights mounted lower, headlights with no cowls over the rims.... IMHO and I'd course the old Riley 2443cc engine. I cannot recall if the bonnet opening was different, just a normal lid for the 2.6 as opposed to a full grill inclusive maw for the Pathfinder.


I guess you're right, Roger...

From memory the badge on the 2.6 was up high on the front guard. Of course, Stuart should wade in here with more specific information.

#30 Repco22

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 12:03

"Terry, I don't think that's Wally Higgs behind Hilton. Could be Vin Smith or maybe Bob McDowell. Apart from not looking like him, helmet or car, Wally would normally be out in front! He was a very small guy too. Must add that I haven't checked the list of starters. Re other Sullivan Senior-built open-wheelers.

I don't know of any." -- RW.

 

      Having done some homework since the above comment, I see that Vin Smith was not a starter. My bet is Bob McDowall with the distinctive helmet behind Hilton.

           Wally Higgs had an off day as did many of the starters in this event.

           For the sake of an accurate picture of the DSM it should be said, and I know Dave would agree, that there were a number of quicker cars around. MIke Tighe's Elfin Catalina

would have been the favourite and his best lap was three seconds quicker than Dave's. But the rain bucketed down and most of the quicks were suddenly floundering.

Conditions obviously suited Dave and the DSM and he was a surprise but worthy winner. Good on him! Very pleasing to know that he is still with us. I can't help wondering

if he attributes his longevity to his home brew.



#31 Terry Walker

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 12:05

Ken, I think you're right: It's Vin Smith. That odd-looking helmet.



#32 Terry Walker

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 12:13

And here it is at the end of its active career, as a dragster. Yes, and I think the lettering on the nose is A Mod, dragster class. There were no dragsters in WA when Ravenswood opened. so for a short period of time there was room for something with little weight, enough power, and a sharp driver. The colour shot shows the car on the line; the b/w shot Dave with a Swan Lager can and I think Con Migro.

 

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I don't know if that's a unique distinction, but single seat racer and dragster... and top at both!



#33 Repco22

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 15:20

They are great shots Terry, i look foreward to seeing more.Dave was always very friendly to talk to.I well remember the championship he won it was against Don O'Sullivan's Cooper Climax on a wet track, Dave was very excited about it.I do hope he is keeping w

 

Ken, I think you're right: It's Vin Smith. That odd-looking helmet.

 

Ken & Terry, according to the official timesheets Don O'Sullivan wasn't racing that day. And nor was Vin Smith. Ken, are you perhaps thinking of the time Vin's Govin special beat Don O'Sullivan's Cooper Climax in the rain?



#34 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 22:40

And here it is at the end of its active career, as a dragster. Yes, and I think the lettering on the nose is A Mod, dragster class. There were no dragsters in WA when Ravenswood opened. so for a short period of time there was room for something with little weight, enough power, and a sharp driver. The colour shot shows the car on the line; the b/w shot Dave with a Swan Lager can and I think Con Migro.

 

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I don't know if that's a unique distinction, but single seat racer and dragster... and top at both!

Drag racing with a Holden motor,, and a VW gearbox. Poor gearbox!

Should be quite [period] quick if the gearbox does not explode



#35 GMACKIE

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 23:00

That "Poor gearbox" was designed to take 36 HP, and very little torque, Lee. :rolleyes:



#36 Ray Bell

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 23:30

Looks like a barrel-box to me, Greg...

Just like John Goss used in the Tornado.

#37 GMACKIE

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 23:41

OK then...actually 34hp [DIN], which is 40hp [SAE].

 

They did [and still do] a remarkable job !



#38 DanTra2858

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 00:13

In the early photos during the car,s construction the pedal assembly is clearly shown is it home made or a modified Production assembly?

#39 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 00:42

If they're not home made they are seriously modified...

They pivot on that tube which seems to be clamped to the top transverse tube, at least the top part of them don't look like any sort of production car pedals I've ever seen.

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#40 ken devine

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 00:45

I just read the race writeup in the Visor , Rod was correct Don O'Sullivan and Vin Smith were not running that day. We had a visiting open wheeler from SA Keith Rilestone in an Elfin.The outright result was Sullivan,Tighe and Rockford in the Repco Alta.An excellent cartoon by Rod shows Dave splashing through the rain holding an umbrella over his head.The Neptune Racing team were also visiting that day and another of Rod's cartoons shows the Neptune team on Spears being chased by Stan Starcevich in his EH Holden


Edited by ken devine, 07 July 2015 - 00:46.


#41 Terry Walker

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:10

On VW boxes, they were surprisingly robust. John Glasson ran a 5-litre Rambler V8 through one for years. He probably broke one or two, but I don't remember it happening.



#42 Repco22

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:10

Regarding transmissions, what else was available? The natural progression in WA was from Peugeot motors in the rear, to the DSM with Holden power and eventually an OHV Ford V8 and a Rambler V8! Pictured below; John Glasson's Rambler sports and centre, beneath that, the wildest Goggomobil ever of Vic Watson with Ford V8/VW transmission.

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#43 Repco22

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 02:11

"SNAP" Terry!



#44 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 04:31

From AMS, page 55, November 1964...

After the start of the Racing Car championship the rain literally fell in one wallop and drenched the circuit in a matter of seconds. It was a repeat of the 1963 Belgian Grand Prix when the cars went into a spin at ridiculously low speeds. All the powerful cars were getting wheelspin along the straight. Mike Tighe, in the Elfin, took an early lead, followed by Keith Rilstone, Wally Higgs, David Rockford, Sid Negus and the rest. When the rains came spectators scurried in all directions looking for shelter. Several cars ran like chaffcutters when they breathed "lungs" full of water.

Keith Rilstone pulled into the pits with a broker supercharger belt and retired - a pity because we really wanted to see a scrap between Tighe and Rilstone. Higgs, McDowell and McIntosh all stopped with misfiring troubles and lost any real chance of gaining a place. Wally Higgs was back into the race quickly, however, and began catching up on the smaller and slower cars. Unfortunately Tighe's Elfin went "off-song" for several laps and he relinquished the lead to Dave Sullivan, whose DSM Peugeot 1500 is a good wet weather car.

David Rockford was really trying hard, but his Repco Alta began slithering in all directions when he applied any power. Even the smallest car in the race, the little Renault Special driven by Dick Ward, was spinning the wheels. In the wet, Dick Ward and many other drivers applied full lock and continued straight ahead.

Both Higgs and Tighe got their cars running well when the rain eased, but the track was still treacherous. Bob Kingsbury, who had been holding fifth position, retired with carburettor trouble and when Hilton McGee had the misfortune to spin on the last lap nobody knew who would take the minor placings. Ward, in the tiny Renault Special, held fifth position for a small time until Higgs came through.

Higgs had been driving extremely hard to catch up after his pit stop and deserved his third place under 1500 and fifth outright. Sullivan held his slender lead right to the end, followed by Tighe, Rockford, Negus, Higgs and Ward, so we have a new State Champion, Dick Sullivan.


If I might comment, the lack of triangulation in the chassis would have made it quite 'soft' to drive, thus helping it in wet conditions... perhaps leading to Colin Cooper's comment about it being a good wet weather car.

Another point... the lap record at the time of this meeting was held by Wally Higgs at 1:28, no mention of O'Sullivan to this time.

#45 GMACKIE

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 04:41

Rain is a great 'leveller'.  ;)



#46 Gordon Graham

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 04:59

I don't think O'Sullivan appeared with the first of his Coopers until the 65 state champioship



#47 Repco22

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 05:48

From AMS, page 55, November 1964...


If I might comment, the lack of triangulation in the chassis would have made it quite 'soft' to drive, thus helping it in wet conditions... perhaps leading to Colin Cooper's comment about it being a good wet weather car.

Another point... the lap record at the time of this meeting was held by Wally Higgs at 1:28, no mention of O'Sullivan to this time.

Re chassis; Agreed Ray.  Re times; The best lap two time was Tighe's ; 1.35, Sullivan & Eric Nichol; 1.38. Negus; 1.41, Rockford; 1.45. By lap four and the downpour they were nearly all in the 1.50--2 minutes plus range. Meanwhile Dave in the DSM was reeling off a succession of laps between 1.46--1.48.



#48 ken devine

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 07:59

The Don O'Sullivan Cooper was driven by Bill Downey in the 1965 State Championship as O'Sullivan was under liscence suspension.



#49 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 08:09

Regarding transmissions, what else was available? The natural progression in WA was from Peugeot motors in the rear, to the DSM with Holden power and eventually an OHV Ford V8 and a Rambler V8! Pictured below; John Glasson's Rambler sports and centre, beneath that, the wildest Goggomobil ever of Vic Watson with Ford V8/VW transmission.

CCF07072015_00000_zpsszfz12of.jpg

For a transaxle there was very little available. The VW box with ratios to suit a low revving 36hp engine! 3 speed and overdrive. Or by mid 60s a 40horse box. A bit better but not much. Though by then for lightweight  cars some specialist places [Hewland and others] were making gear sets and improved diffs. Kombi boxes are supposedly an improvement?

 

Most of my experience with these boxes is with off roaders who broke hundreds of them, and some still are. I am told the pinion design [adequate for a beetle] is the main problem, and like many light boxes the case itself is not strong enough.

Does anyone remotely serious ever use a VW box these days? Apart from historics and Formula Vee. And most historics used 'improved' boxes by Hewland, Hollinger and other aftermarket suppliers.

 

The Albin transaxle as used in Stupid Cars is a version of the well used off road box. And they are BIG,, and heavy too. But seldom break if the shift mechanism is working properly. And the [heavy] cases do not break unlike the Porsche ones that for mine are nicer and have plenty of gear strength, but not near enough case strength. Even the fancy racing ones.

For the well heeled the Porsche version should have been better, or a Corvair by the later 60s.

I believe some Renault ones were used too?  Probably had useless ratios too.



#50 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 08:25

Lee, the 40hp came in 1960...

Kombi boxes were the same as the car through until about '66 or so, having reduction gears at the ends of the swing axles.

Corvairs started in 1959 and had a 4-speed at least by 1961 if not from the beginning.

Lotus used Renault boxes in the 18 in 1960 and others continued using them, but probably modified and only in small cars.