7 replies to this topic

[Dunc]

This is a different take on things (I think!) but bare with me.

 

One of the things which kept the teams close in the past - in my opinion, the key thing - was that so many cars were using the same engine a la the Coventry Climax and the Ford Cosworth DFV.

 

If Red Bull get a Merc engine, as has been rumoured, that will mean five teams on the grid will be running that engine.  Presuming that goes ahead Merc now effectively the 21st century equivalent of these old engine companies?  While I like having Ferrari, Honda and Renault in F1 shoud we welcome this kind of development?  We saw at Silverstone that the Williams can, in the right conditions, match the Merc on pace.  If this becomes the case for more teams, surely that can only help improve competitiveness in the long run.

[kvyatfan]

Don't the head teams have a fuel advantage though? Meaning that a team like Williams has to go less downforce to match their speed, and then remain at a significant disadvantage in most situations.

[PayasYouRace]

Neither Coventry or Ford had works teams in F1 when their engines were so common, so they didn't have to worry about being beaten by customers.

 

Now I wouldn't have any problem with F1 going down to mainly a single engine maker plus Ferrari, even though I grew up on an era of more manufacturer involvement (1990s). I can't imagine it would be in Merc's interests unless they ditch the works team.

[Dunc]

The works team issue is true so it's not an ideal comparrison but I think the dominant engine maker is the way F1 might be heading for a while.  Even in the days of Climax and DFV you still had cars using Repco, BRM, Honda, Alfa-Romeo and Renault engines so it's not like there isn't a precedent from those times for more manufacturer involvement too.

[sopa]

It boils down to which kind of commitment each manufacturer is prepared to take. I think Ford with their Cosworth factory decided to take on the "engines for masses" mentality. Build as many engines as many customers are prepared to pay for these, even if it was for the whole field. I don't think Mercedes is quite ready to supply 4+ teams at the moment. And I am unsure it is in their interests to expand their engine business to enable this.

[Buttoneer]

I like the OP, but it won't work in commercial terms, because this;

 

Neither Coventry or Ford had works teams in F1 when their engines were so common, so they didn't have to worry about being beaten by customers.

 

[Guizotia]

This is a different take on things (I think!) but bare with me.

 

One of the things which kept the teams close in the past - in my opinion, the key thing - was that so many cars were using the same engine a la the Coventry Climax and the Ford Cosworth DFV.

 

If Red Bull get a Merc engine, as has been rumoured, that will mean five teams on the grid will be running that engine.  Presuming that goes ahead Merc now effectively the 21st century equivalent of these old engine companies?  While I like having Ferrari, Honda and Renault in F1 shoud we welcome this kind of development?  We saw at Silverstone that the Williams can, in the right conditions, match the Merc on pace.  If this becomes the case for more teams, surely that can only help improve competitiveness in the long run.

 

 

?

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

Which is trending to be the complete opposite of the intentions of the engine regulations. They were drafted with the intent of bringing in more engine manufacturers. But the costs and complexity, and unwillingness to change the regulations, are making it a one-engine series.

 

The Ford DFV will live in history as the most successful engine, but it was never meant to be that way. Ford, Cosworth, and Lotus made a deal that saw this engine come into being. But it soon became the supreme engine, and Ford's guy, Walter Hayes realized that the Ford name would gain more prestige if that engine was not exclusive to just one team, and basically put it on the market. So although the DFV was superior in packaging and cost (being relatively cheap), the economic conditions from then and now are the opposite. While the DFV was cheap, the new engines are just the opposite, and that condition cannot remain for long. So the Mercedes is the best engine right now, the conditions will force a change, that is inevitable.