574 replies to this topic

[teejay]

They really need to clarify what happened - series looks stupid now.

[EvilPhil II]

Im a little confused by this news. A winning car that lapped the entire field to everyones amazement turns out to be underweight and retains the victory. I hope those extra points JPM would have collected dont make the difference at the end. 

[greenman]

PS... I'm all about changing up our poster girl.
But she MUST have at least as much postable goodie action as MS. Pond

Jp

I don't know what you mean by "postable goodie action", but yes.

 

 

 

Also, to be fair, this fine is kind of consistent with previous similar examples over the last few years. It does look kind of silly though, and I hope we would get more info on that

Edited by greenman, 16 July 2015 - 10:08.

[hittheapex]

Gah. This sort of thing makes me nervous; it just encourages people to field illegal cars, take the victory and then pay the fine. They've been following this precedent for a while now, but starting next year I hope they'll return to on-track penalties - it really is the only just punishment.

It opens up a tin of worms, that's for sure. If they justify it as a minor breach of the rules, can a team that runs a car that is more underweight just pay a bigger fine? And if not, where is the line drawn? Not good.

[OvDrone]

I wag my finger at thee KV Racing for foulplay and I scoff at thee Indycar for being lenient. For shame.

 

[Prost1997T]

According to AR1: "AR1.com has learned that Bourdais' car was three pounds underweight. Donuts can take as much as five pounds off the tires. He has been told never to do donuts again. IndyCar's tech and PR departments could have given the whole truth by telling everyone that he failed by just 3 pounds, and not, say, 100 pounds.

So some people probably figured the team cheated to win, when in fact they just had the car right at the minimum weight and did not count on him doing donuts."

The minimum in the rules is 1600lbs, I doubt 1597 would make it that much faster. Bourdais ran a lot more downforce than the likes of Newgarden, which made his car easier on the tyres and better in traffic.

Edited by Prost1997T, 16 July 2015 - 11:17.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah but then we're at 1590. Then 1500. Underweight is underweight, you have to be draconian about it(not Dracone, however).

Hold on a minute.

AR1 still exists?

[Prost1997T]

Yeah but then we're at 1590. Then 1500. Underweight is underweight, you have to be draconian about it(not Dracone, however).

True, but the posters above said he only won due to having an illegal car. Besides, KV could appeal.

[OvDrone]

True, but the posters above said he only won due to having an illegal car. Besides, KV could appeal.

 

Meh, I just wanted to post more Brie. I couldn't care less about the weight issue. The race was fun.

[Lukin]

It's a rule! How the hell can they not enforce it?
Present a car with the tolerance built into it, so if you lose rubber or brake wear you are still legal. Every other category in the world does it.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Wasn't there a Minardi DQ'd from Friday qualifying at Magny-Cours one year because of the different weight in a dry and a wet tire? Like they'd 'qualified' on the front row because they went last and ran dries, but the lack of tread blocks put the car like 1lb(kg?) under and, lolz, sorry you're out.

[Prost1997T]

It's a rule! How the hell can they not enforce it?

Derrick Walker is a moron? He claimed last year that a zero-tolerance approach wasn't realistic. Not the only decision of his proving contraversial, there was the double points thing as well.

[rodlamas]

Open up the boost to double pressure and win the Indy 500 race with a lap advantage and get fined in 50,000 while winning 3MM.

 

Indycar is just too ridiculous.

[Imperial]

Hmm...Indy goes Nascar.

Saddened today...

[Prost1997T]

Hmm...Indy goes Nascar.

Saddened today...

Actually Nascar will take your points for an engine part being 2mm out of tolerance.

[greenman]

It's not without precedent though. Same fine was issued last year when Montoya's car was underweight in qualifying, or in the Toronto race for an infraction on Filippi's car and there were more serious infractions on the winning cars of Wilson in Texas 2012 and Helio's car in the same race a year later, that were also dealt by with fines, rather than points deductions. I do wish they would be more clear about this though. Right now it seems like they rule these cases like, "meh it was probably not done on purpose and it's not like they had much of an advantage", and that leaves quite a bit of a grey area. I don't think you want that...

[Prost1997T]

I recall some quarters applauding the hiring of Walker (CART fans), he only seems to have been a negative from what I can see. If he's not going to enforce the rules he should be replaced.

Edited by Prost1997T, 16 July 2015 - 14:24.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It seems to be a systemtic issue with 'Indycar' itself.

[Imperial]

Actually Nascar will take your points for an engine part being 2mm out of tolerance.

Sorry, I meant more the point that exclusions are happening. Or, in this case, SHOULD be happening if they worked to the rules.

[Prost1997T]

It seems to be a systemtic issue with 'Indycar' itself.

Why? "Indycar" doesn't tell Walker how to run his side. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen all these changes after he was hired. Barnhart didn't have double points or hestitate to penalise people. Wednesday penalties are 100% Derrick Walker.
 
In 2008 if you had an illegal part in qualifying, you were sent to the back. Vision Racing at Homestead comes to mind.

Sorry, I meant more the point that exclusions are happening. Or, in this case, SHOULD be happening if they worked to the rules.

http://www.foxnews.c...gine-at-kansas/

Losing all your points, getting fined $200k and your crew chief suspended for multiple races isn't a small penalty (it was later appealed).

Edited by Prost1997T, 16 July 2015 - 17:08.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Has Walker been in charge the entire DW12 era? Because I thought someone else was doing it when Wilson won at Texas with the 'illegal' car.

[Risil]

Derek Walker's been in the job since May 2013, says the notorious Google infobox.

 

For what it's worth I'm fine with not taking the win away from Bourdais because his car overweight by the margin of one (tyre) donut. I have no doubt that one day this policy will blow up terribly however.

[Prost1997T]

Has Walker been in charge the entire DW12 era? Because I thought someone else was doing it when Wilson won at Texas with the 'illegal' car.

 

Just looked it up, they were running Indy 500 spec sidepod parts. The series docked Wilson and the entry 5 points but the win stood.

Edited by Prost1997T, 17 July 2015 - 03:45.

[paulb]

Just looked it up, they were running Indy 500 spec sidepod parts. The series docked Wilson and the entry 5 points but the win stood.

That would seem to be a more meaningful penalty in that it has championship impact.

[Imperial]

Why? "Indycar" doesn't tell Walker how to run his side. Otherwise we wouldn't have seen all these changes after he was hired. Barnhart didn't have double points or hestitate to penalise people. Wednesday penalties are 100% Derrick Walker.

In 2008 if you had an illegal part in qualifying, you were sent to the back. Vision Racing at Homestead comes to mind.


http://www.foxnews.c...gine-at-kansas/

Losing all your points, getting fined $200k and your crew chief suspended for multiple races isn't a small penalty (it was later appealed).

Think we're at cross purposes here dude.