142 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

I recently discussed with some folks who the best non WDC of the current F1 is. And I got really different opinions on this matter and a nice discussion ;) So it would be interesting to see what the opinion of the forum is like.

I find this topic really interesting as we had last year in Spa for the first time after 5 years an podium just with non WDC (Ricciardo, Rosberg, Bottas) and last years championship result had 3 non WDC on the first 4 places.

Edited by Marklar, 15 July 2015 - 19:18.

[Atreiu]

Can't make up my mind between the Hulk and Massa.

[kvyatfan]

Ricciardo then Hulk. I could go either one though since they've had pretty different situations.

[YoungGun]

Massa

[joshb]

Hulkenberg

[P123]

Ricciardo, Rosberg, Hulk. Not much to choose between either of those.

[AustinF1]

Hulkenburg

[redraven9]

1. Ricciardo or Hulk (last season Ric, this season Hulk - but Ric has bad luck with car)

 

2. Massa, Rosberg, Bottas, Perez

 

and the rest

 

Although Massa is the bomb in this season so far!

Edited by redraven9, 15 July 2015 - 19:58.

[Imateria]

Very tough choice between Hulkenberg and Ricciardo. Rosbergs not far off them two either.

[sennafan24]

I went with D.R.

 

During the past 18 months, D.R has shown signs that he might be the full package. Quick over one lap, thoughtful race craft, and cracking wheel to wheel skills. I would go with Rosberg and Hulk in joint 2nd place, and Bottas just behind in 4th.

 

Opinions are ever changing. So in 6 months time, my list could look very different.

[Counterbalance]

Ricciardo. Rosberg is in too fast a car to judge accurately.

[OvDrone]

Tricky Ricky, the Hulk, Rosberg, Massa, Grosjean, Kvyat, Bottas.

[ANF]

Probably Buemi Hülkenberg.

[ninetyzero]

Ericsson. Future WDC.

[MikeV1987]

Hulk for sure.

[superden]

Hulkenberg.

[noikeee]

During the past 18 months, D.R has shown signs that he might be the full package. Quick over one lap, thoughtful race craft, and cracking wheel to wheel skills. I would go with Rosberg and Hulk in joint 2nd place, and Bottas just behind in 4th.

 

Opinions are ever changing. So in 6 months time, my list could look very different.

 

My opinion is pretty much the same word for word.

 

I'll only add that I'm not 100% convinced - yet - Ricciardo's as good as anyone else in the field. Need more data before concluding that, as last year could've been a fluke under good conditions. But he is a very good driver no doubt whatsoever on that, and my pick from this list at the moment.

 

Hulk's on great form right now and he is definitely a good driver too, but he's had several previous patches of bad form that make me wary. I'd say Rosberg level sounds about right - capable of beating the best on a good day but not consistently.

 

Bottas is close too but on present form is falling down on my estimation rapidly.

[chhatra]

Nico Rosberg.

Anyone who can be as close as he is to Hamilton in a straight fight is WDC material.

[PlatenGlass]

I'd say Ricciardo. This is in large part based on what I saw from him last year, but I thought he had a pretty amazing year. But obviously he can't live off that year forever, so we'll see what he does.

[Spillage]

Hulk for me. I think that if either he or Ricciardo had the car they wouldn't be on this list for long, though.

[MastaKink]

Ricciardo,Rosberg or Hulk. It's hard to tell who's the best out of those three but I think they're a step above the others. I'm being harsh on Massa and as a consequence Bottas though. it's tricky.

 

I voted for Ricciardo in the poll and I have absolutely no real justification for having him ahead of the other 2 that would make a good argument. Just watching him drive last season in all situations throughout a weekend he looked commanding.

 

It's tough with Rosberg because on the one hand it's tempting to dismiss what he's doing and put it down to the car but on the other hand he's up against one of, if not the best drivers on the grid, and has beaten him over a season in Qualy which is no mean feat, and has outperformed him in a decent number of races over their time together as well.  Has had a few shockers though that if he was in another car would have left him struggling for points never mind podiums.

 

Hulk has never had a car close to the other 2 or Massa and Bottas so it's tough to put him ahead but a number of stand out weekends keeps him in the discussion every silly season and was unlucky not to get the Ferrari seat in 2013.

[HeadFirst]

Hamilton has been the nazz for over a year now, and Rosberg is pretty close to him most days.

[Jimisgod]

Ricciardo, easy.

 

If Rosberg was good enough, he'd have won last year.

[KingTiger]

How is the Hulk getting votes over Rosberg?

I think Ricciardo and Rosberg are definitely the two top non WDC drivers.

[Jimisgod]

Bottas sure has dropped after GBR. Same as Stevens.

[Gyan]

I can't decide between Hulkenberg and Ricciardo, but ultimately went for Ricciardo, based on his performance last season. You don't beat a world champion like he did last season unless you're WDC potential at the minimum.

 

Having said that, Hulkenberg's consistency since the latter half of 2012 has been phenomenal. He hasn't had an opportunity similar to what Ricciardo had, but he's beaten all his teammates convincingly and consistently, and that's all he can really do, so Hulkenberg's right up there as well.

 

Rosberg's margins with Hamilton aren't that stellar when it comes to races. He can compete with Lewis in qualifying, but when it comes to races, there's something missing. Sure, his points have been close to Hamilton, but that's because Merc always end up 1-2. The sheen's been nicked off him a little bit.

[aramos]

Rosberg's margins with Hamilton aren't that stellar when it comes to races. He can compete with Lewis in qualifying, but when it comes to races, there's something missing. Sure, his points have been close to Hamilton, but that's because Merc always end up 1-2. The sheen's been nicked off him a little bit.

 

Weirdly this year its been the other way around. Hamilton has out qualified Rosberg 9-1.

[sopa]

I went with D.R.

 

During the past 18 months, D.R has shown signs that he might be the full package. Quick over one lap, thoughtful race craft, and cracking wheel to wheel skills. I would go with Rosberg and Hulk in joint 2nd place, and Bottas just behind in 4th.

 

Opinions are ever changing. So in 6 months time, my list could look very different.

 

That's a pretty good one, though I specifically wonder about Hulkenberg and Bottas. It may easily be that we overestimate their recent form and do not take into account general form. Hulkenberg is currently on a 'high', while Bottas is on a 'low'.

 

I think Hulk has been in F1 long enough to consider him worthy to sit in the Rosberg range (based on Hulk's performance average so far). But Bottas' is in his third season and a clear consensus has not yet arrived. Not many consider him an absolute star, but is he worthy to get rated alongside Button, Rosberg, Hulk? When we look at Massa, he is usually rated below this trio, so if Bottas matches him, it would put him a stack lower. But he is young with potential to be a tad higher than Massa...

 

We'll have to wait and see I guess.

[scheivlak]

Last year I would have voted RIcciardo without any doubt. He's making too many mistakes though this year, possibly out of frustration - he's like this year's 2014 Vettel.

 

So I voted Rosberg (with Hulkenberg a close second).

[SealTheDiffuser]

Hülkenberg hype heavily biasing the voting

 

never ever (Marc Gene also won LeMans!)

 

(we can honestly say it is ROS or RIC;

VES and KVY too early to judge)

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 16 July 2015 - 08:54.

[Nanouk73]

I am not sure you can single one out. Rosberg, Hulk, Ric and Bottas are the standout ones. Not sure I would include Massa - he as been around too long. All the others are just about impossible to judge. Kvyat looks like he is doing a good job as well as Sainz and Verstappen. but at least with the last two one doesn´t have any comparison....

[Lennat]

I voted Rosberg. I'm not in any way sure he is better than Ricciardo, but beating Schumi (old, but still counts for something) and being close to Hamilton over several seasons make him more proven at this point. Hulkenberg is too unproven.

[1Devil1]

Riccardio, hulkenberg big gap Rosberg. Rosberg is great in qualifying but lacks in race craft. Which the other proved already.

[Christbiscuit]

Massa, purely because he was within touching distance of the Championship. No-one could have argued had he won in 2008.

[v@sh]

Last year I would have voted RIcciardo without any doubt. He's making too many mistakes though this year, possibly out of frustration - he's like this year's 2014 Vettel.

 

Would like to know what mistakes you are referring to? Sure, his last few rounds haven't been his best but Monaco he had a power deficit in the 1st sector for Q3 and was boxed out first corner. His w/e was poor in Canada sure while he had brake issues with his qualy in Austria, his race was fine.

 

I would put Ricciardo, then Hulk, Rosberg/Bottas.

[ToxicEnviroment]

5 second champ gets my vote!

[ToxicEnviroment]

Although Ricc would be more reasonable choice.

I cannot understand why would anyone vote for Rosberg though.

[josepatches]

Rosberg? I cant judge him because all the drivers of the grid would end 1st or 2nd with a Merc. He was close to Hamilton sometimes but i dont even know if hamilton is at his best.

Ricciardo.... Great 2014 season or maybe it was just Vettel who has an off year? 2013 and 2015 until now werent bad but not so great. Surely he's a very good driver but for me its too early to rank his value

Hulkenberg...a lot of hype around him but...

Massa.... Surely he's not as good as the WDC of the grid but he was really close to win one.

Not an easy choice.

[DILLIGAF]

Ricciardo

[lbennie]

Wow, Bottas fellin' the heat this year.

[f1RacingForever]

I really don't understand the hype around hulkenburg. He is a notch below rosberg and Riccardo, who still has a lot to prove imo. The fact that top teams keep passing on him is pretty telling. I don't think many would have predicted rosberg giving Hamilton so much trouble before they became teammates. To me, he is clearly the strongest non champion.

[Jerem]

Now we know Roberto Mehri sometimes comes to the Autosport forums!

[PayasYouRace]

It's not that hard to judge Rosberg is it? He was clearly Williams top driver during this time there and his performances against Schumi and Lewis should be enough.

[sopa]

 

 

Detailed analysis of his on track performance data by the engineers, which Williams management will be studying now, as all the teams do, shows that while he has his moments of magic, he’s not at the level of a Bottas or a Ricciardo.

The key to being a top F1 driver is repeatability; the knack for putting your three best sectors together in a qualifying lap when it counts, doing it every time and essentially not having off days.

 

http://www.jamesalle...pment-in-italy/

 

From James Allen blog.

Fascinating claim. Over to us to debate though.

 

I am especially fascinated by the claim that insiders find Hulk slower than Bottas.

Edited by sopa, 17 July 2015 - 10:33.

[scheivlak]

Would like to know what mistakes you are referring to? Sure, his last few rounds haven't been his best but Monaco he had a power deficit in the 1st sector for Q3 and was boxed out first corner. His w/e was poor in Canada sure while he had brake issues with his qualy in Austria, his race was fine.

 

 

He clearly made mistakes in e.g. Malaysia, China and Britain (first lap!).

 

His 17th (!) place in the current voting championship http://forums.autosp...ts-for-britain/ (way behind e.g. Kvyat) really says it all.

[Gyan]

http://www.jamesalle...pment-in-italy/

 

From James Allen blog.

Fascinating claim. Over to us to debate though.

 

I am especially fascinated by the claim that insiders find Hulk slower than Bottas.

 

How many off races has Hulkenberg really had in the past 2-3 seasons though? You've also got to consider the fact that he's mostly been in a slower car compared to both Bottas and Ricciardo of late and factor in that when comparing pace over three sectors as the article states. Speaking of which, apart from his rookie season, Hulkenberg hasn't really struggled with qualifying has he. He narrowly edged di Resta and beat Perez and Gutierrez well in qualifying.

 

I'm not saying that Bottas or Ricciardo didn't match that, nor am I dismissing the article, but before passing concrete judgment, what exactly the data is, surely is needed.

[FullThrottleF1]

Who voted for Merhi? 

[FullThrottleF1]

Riccardo then Hulkenberg. Never been impressed with Massa, although he has been superb this year.

[TurnOffTheLights]

http://www.jamesalle...pment-in-italy/

 

From James Allen blog.

Fascinating claim. Over to us to debate though.

 

I am especially fascinated by the claim that insiders find Hulk slower than Bottas.

 

Nothing to debate, unfortunately. It's a claim that sounds like made up out of thin air because you always need something to support your opinion (especially if you've got a very special opinion). And as a F1 journo it's pretty easy to say "There is data out there that confirm my opinion, but I can't tell you more, because obviously it's secret".

Allen argues, Hülkenberg isn't always able to combine his personal sector best times into one hot lap. Who of the drivers is? Hülkenbergs weakness isn't qualifying, that's for sure. One of the worst articles I've read for a long time (including the part about Bottas and the speculation about Button).

Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 17 July 2015 - 11:03.

[sopa]

I don't like to dismiss the views of insiders too easily, though they can't be taken as gospel either. After all, they decide, how to allocate race seats and it looks like Bottas will get a factory team seat and Hulkenberg misses out.

 

But if I try to follow the reasoning by which this conclusion has been reached, it can be noted that for many races Hulkenberg has been behind Perez. Especially in the second half of 2014 and the early part of 2015. This may be what insiders mean by 'consistency'. Though Bottas has not beaten Massa, it may also be that insiders rate Massa a firm level higher than Perez.

Edited by sopa, 17 July 2015 - 11:10.