142 replies to this topic

[extremeday]

Rosberg. He is consistent, has one lap pace and can lead from the front. Racecraft leaves something to be desired.

 

RIC has been rubbish this year and is getting taken to the cleaners by Kvyat. He had one good season last year but has no consistency.

 

Wow

 

The topic isnt who is the best non WDC driver based on 2014 results alone? Nobody is disputing his achievement in 2014, at least not me.

 

2012 and 2013, he was pretty even with JEV and I think we can all agree that JEV is no second coming of Senna. Heck the guy cannot even merit a drive anymore. This year, he has been behind Kvyat and i can already see you trotting out the issues excuse. Safe to say, that having 1 good season out of 4 qualifies as being inconsistent.

 

Is he the best non WDC driver on the current grid? No, by a long shot. on current form, Rosberg will have him for breakfast and then some. I would even go on to say that pretty much any driver can put it past him given that we know that he could not shine against either JEV or Kvyat.

 

No, he hasn´t.

 

No by a long shot?

 

Rosberg has the best car by far. His car let him start at front raw which makes his races much easier, his only true rival is Hamilton. Ricciardo rivals are almost all drivers, his car doesn´t let him start in front positions and usually has reliability issues (Kvyat car too). iThis is not an excuse, this is a fact, Red Bull car has reliability issues and is not competitive, Mercedes car hasn´t had reliability issues and is more than competitive, it´s a beast. Besides, how do you know that Kvyat is not a really talented driver?

 

 

Consider the gap between alonso and lewis (in his rookie year) ? Don't consider only points, alonso was clearly beaten in qualy, and overall Lewis was faster. Alonso made the right move to change the team and avoid hamilton.

Consider the gap between lewis and rosberg ?  Close as far as i'm concerned.

 

For me Lewis is slightly ahead of both of them. 

In a straight fight between alonso and rosberg, it is not certain alonso would dominate Nico.That seems bigger than it is because it's an exceptionnal season where you only see two cars fighting each other

In qualy exercice at least, nico would be extremely difficult to beat. LEwis has to put exceptional performance each week end to beat him by a slight margin.

 

i hope you more understand my point of view, as english is not my native language

 

 

Time of putting some myths to rest:

 

It took me some time with Kvyat-Ricciardo-Vettel, but it is much easier with Rosberg-Hamilton-Alonso. I know perfectly the Hamilton vs Alonso statistics, I´ve always wanted to know who the best current F1 driver is, so I need to know those statistics. Hamilton vs Rosberg statistics are really easy to check because they usually win or get pole position.

 

2007 season (17 races):

• Retirements: Hamilton 1- Alonso 1
• Qualifying results: Hamilton 9- Alonso 8
• Races both drivers finished: Hamilton 6- Alonso 9
• Wins: Alonso 4 – Hamilton 4

Alonso was sanctioned in Hungary and lost 6 places, so it could be Alonso 7 –Hamilton 10, but I am not sure about it. I´ve read about what happened in Hungary 2007 and I am not sure at all. In addition, Alonso had gear box problems in France GP and he did not set a time in Q3.

 

Hamilton was in his rookie year, but he had serious testing mileage and McLaren were racing Alonso at some point. If I have to pay attention to the rookie year, then I also have to pay attention to the testing mileage and McLaren racing against Alonso. 

 

2014 season (19 races):

• Retirements: Hamilton 3 – Rosberg 2
• Qualifying results: Hamilton 7 – Rosberg 11
• Races both drivers finished: Hamilton 10 – Rosberg 4
• Wins: Hamilton  11 – Rosberg 5

2015 season (9 races up to know):

• Retirements: Hamilton 0 – Rosberg 0
• Qualifying results: Hamilton 8 – Rosberg 1
• Races both drivers finished: Hamilton 6 – Rosberg 3 (Rosberg wasn´t exactly faster than Hamilton in Monaco, was he?)
• Wins: Hamilton 5 – Rosberg 2 (Edit: it is Hamilton 5 - Rosberg 3, Vettel only won one race, the rest of them were won by Mercedes drivers, what a surprise)

Conclusion: Hamilton is clearly faster than Alonso and dominated him. Rosberg has been matching Hamilton…

 

What are you people talking about? Hamilton didn´t dominate Alonso at all and Rosberg hasn´t been matching Hamilton. Do you want to rewrite history?

 

In 2014 it was Hamilton vs Hamilton, in 2015, up to now, it is Hamilton vs nobody, the point here is that Hamilton and Rosberg drive such a beast of a car that they are going to finish first or second most of the races, regardless of how well or bad they are driving compared to each other or compared to the other drivers, so there cannot be significant difference in points between them unless one of them suffers from reliability issues. 

 

I cannot say who the best non WDC driver is, I am tempted to say Ricciardo, I want to say Ricciardo, Ricciardo is the one who has impressed me the most, but if I am honest, I don´t know for sure. In any case, Ricciardo has been rubbish? he is not the best driver by a long shot? Rosberg will have him for breakfast?...based on what?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by extremeday, 18 July 2015 - 14:15.

[Kobasmashi]

Massa, purely because he was within touching distance of the Championship. No-one could have argued had he won in 2008.

 

Spa and Fuji say hi.

[Atreiu]

Rosberg was a perfectly anonymous consistent also ran with lucky results until Mercedes started making strides and then became dominant. After which his teammate has won twice as many races and a title while Rosberg has mostly benefitted from there being no challenge to Mercedes.

Is he good, solid, fast? Yes. Is he anything out of ordinary? No. Did he ever have an incredible weekend in which he was brilliant and triumphed against odds? No.

He isn't even the second best on the list. His recent run of results is entirely circumstancial and thanks to Mercedes itself.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Spa and Fuji say hi.

Hungary and Singapore say hi back.

[SealTheDiffuser]

Rosberg was a perfectly anonymous consistent also ran with lucky results until Mercedes started making strides and then became dominant. After which his teammate has won twice as many races and a title while Rosberg has mostly benefitted from there being no challenge to Mercedes.

Is he good, solid, fast? Yes. Is he anything out of ordinary? No. Did he ever have an incredible weekend in which he was brilliant and triumphed against odds? No.

He isn't even the second best on the list. His recent run of results is entirely circumstancial and thanks to Mercedes itself.

 

never read more BS here

[Jimisgod]

Spa and Fuji say hi.

 

I raise you Hungary and Singapore.

[Marklar]

Rosberg was a perfectly anonymous consistent also ran with lucky results until Mercedes started making strides and then became dominant. After which his teammate has won twice as many races and a title while Rosberg has mostly benefitted from there being no challenge to Mercedes.

Is he good, solid, fast? Yes. Is he anything out of ordinary? No. Did he ever have an incredible weekend in which he was brilliant and triumphed against odds? No.

He isn't even the second best on the list. His recent run of results is entirely circumstancial and thanks to Mercedes itself.

Disagreeing here a bit: he had weekends where he was brilliant and triumped against the odds (at least regarding the talk before the race weekend) like he did this year in Spain and Austria. Eventhougt both times it was benefitted by Hamilton heavily hitten by set up issues, but how should you beat Hamilton in any other way?

[Kobasmashi]

Hungary and Singapore say hi back.

 

 

I raise you Hungary and Singapore.

 

Tbf though Hungary and Singapore were sporting problems; engine failures happen in motorsport and Hamilton had a puncture in Hungary too don't forget. Singapore was indirectly caused by Crashgate but pit crews pit under safety cars all the time and don't send their drivers off with the fuel hose still attached. On the other hand, Spa and Fuji were blatantly corrupt stewarding decisions to close the championship up.

[DILLIGAF]

Rosberg. He is consistent, has one lap pace and can lead from the front. Racecraft leaves something to be desired.
 
RIC has been rubbish this year and is getting taken to the cleaners by Kvyat. He had one good season last year but has no consistency.

Taken to the cleaners!!

Please try to be objective if you want to be taken seriously.

Edited by DILLIGAF, 18 July 2015 - 19:53.

[Atreiu]

never read more BS here

 

 

Then elaborate.

 

I'm not afraid of reviewing my opinion. I just have never seen Rosberg do anything in F1 which gives him any outstanding credentials. I'm not saying his is slow, or bad, or unworthy. I simply think there are other drivers better than him, non WDCs included.

[SealTheDiffuser]

Then elaborate.

 

I'm not afraid of reviewing my opinion. I just have never seen Rosberg do anything in F1 which gives him any outstanding credentials. I'm not saying his is slow, or bad, or unworthy. I simply think there are other drivers better than him, non WDCs included.

 

fastest lap in his first GP http://www.motorspor...006/01/73.shtml

 

and a lot more...

 

slow, bad or unworthy... unworthy that might be the word... a lot of people think he is unworthy; but he nealy beat HAM, he might no be better than HAM (especially racecraft), but I doubt there is any Non-Wdc bar maybe RIC that is faster... so fast means good, and fastest is best, so ROS is clearly top contender and rightfully so for this poll.

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 18 July 2015 - 20:39.

[travbrad]

Interesting that basically all of the top non-WDC drivers (according to this poll) are potential Ferrari drivers next year, except Rosberg who would be crazy to leave Mercedes.

 

With Ferrari you always have to wonder though, whether they want the best driver they can get or if they want someone who can be a solid #2 to Vettel (which Raikkonen isn't even accomplishing so far this season)

[sennafan24]

but he nealy beat HAM,

Depends on what year you are alluding to. 

 

If you are alluding to 2014, there is little meaning attached to that sentence. Nico being in Championship contention during the last race was a gift. However, if you are alluding to 2013, then yes, Nico did almost beat Lewis on merit over a full campaign. Lewis was better than Nico in 2013, but only by the slightest of margins. 

 

For me, any credibility Nico has as a top-line driver comes from his 2010, 2011 and 2013 campaigns, along with a selection of choice race weekends from 2014/2015 (Nico and Schumi were about equal in performance in 2012, ignore all the stats)

 

At this time, Nico is more proven than Hulk/Bottas. The latter two have not faced any top-line teammates, so it is questionable how they would perform in such a scenario. Not saying that either would be butchered, but they are untested until a preferable scenario presents itself.  We know where Nico stands against one of the best drivers on the grid. He gets beaten most of the time, but is usually quite competitive. 

Edited by sennafan24, 19 July 2015 - 01:26.

[aramos]

Depends on what year you are alluding to. 

 

If you are alluding to 2014, there is little meaning attached to that sentence. Nico being in Championship contention during the last race was a gift. However, if you are alluding to 2013, then yes, Nico did almost beat Lewis on merit over a full campaign. Lewis was better than Nico in 2013, but only by the slightest of margins. 

 

For me, any credibility Nico has as a top-line driver comes from his 2010, 2011 and 2013 campaigns, along with a selection of choice race weekends from 2014/2015 (Nico and Schumi were about equal in performance in 2012, ignore all the stats)

 

At this time, Nico is more proven than Hulk/Bottas. The latter two have not faced any top-line teammates, so it is questionable how they would perform in such a scenario. Not saying that either would be butchered, but they are untested until a preferable scenario presents itself.  We know where Nico stands against one of the best drivers on the grid. He gets beaten most of the time, but is usually quite competitive. 

 

I'd say if anything most people expected Rosberg to be closer to Hamilton than he has be. While Lewis had far more wins and a championship when they were partnered, Rosberg had never had a car capable of a championship at that point and he certainly showed all the early signs of being a top driver. Lewis meanwhile was coming off a few seasons with Button which resulted in a bit of a hit to his reputation and (possibly unfair) views of him being mistake prone. So for Hamilton to beat him fairly convincingly is a credit to his ability. Although having said that, many many races between them have been decided on the narrowest margins.

Edited by aramos, 19 July 2015 - 05:37.

[CurbPainter]

Although having said that, many many races between them have been decided on the narrowest margins.

 

That has also got to do with how the cars are build today, the differences are just really small between drivers nowadays when they both don't have set up problems or other problems...how the times have changed over the years.

[GhostR]

Surprised to see so many votes for Hulk. He's good, but for me he's had multiple opportunities to score podiums and failed on all of them.

Last year, Ricciardo took his chances. Perez has grabbed podiums but lacks consistency. Rosberg obviously has pushed Hamilton often enough to be up there.

But it's DR for me at the moment.

[paulogman]

Ricciardo and bottas have to be the top for the way they handle pressure when dicing with world champ drivers.
but bottas was terrible in the wet and ricciardo is off the pace this sEason in a crap car that is often slower than a torro rosso...
Rosberg doesn't cope well once Hamilton decides it's time to push for the title.
just compare how button held up as hamilton's team mate.
Rosberg folds up when it matters. Relatively speaking of course. He's still quite fast.
Massa did enough to be champion, but that was 7 years ago. He's still very quick, would like to see williams improve and he get a win or two

I don't know about hulkenberg. Will.his height and weight hold him back in a competitive car? Talent isn't enough at this level

[sennafan24]

Rosberg doesn't cope well once Hamilton decides it's time to push for the title.
just compare how button held up as hamilton's team mate.

I don't think there is much between Rosberg and Button.

 

Both have the ability to run Lewis close most of the time, and have patches of beating him when he dozes off (Late 2011/Late 2013). However, despite being competitive, and by no means dominated, both have spent the majority of their time as Lewis's teammate being out-performed on track some 70-80% of the time. Check 2014/2015 for Nico, and 2010/Early 2011/2012 for Jenson. 

 

I think Nico is a better qualifier than Jenson, and probably a bit quicker overall. However, Jenson has better race craft, and is the more well-rounded driver. Overall, I think Jenson is a bit better, but there is not much between them (at least relative to Lewis)

[Tsarwash]

Considering that Kvyat is less than ten points behind Riccardo (with a missed race) and Will Stevens has more votes than Kvyat, I don't think that we need to take the results of the poll too seriously here. 

[lbennie]

Considering that Kvyat is less than ten points behind Riccardo (with a missed race) and Will Stevens has more votes than Kvyat, I don't think that we need to take the results of the poll too seriously here. 

 

Just because the majority of posters have a different opinion to you does not mean the poll is invalid. 

[Tsarwash]

Just because the majority of posters have a different opinion to you does not mean the poll is invalid. 

Well your initial premise is incorrect, as actually the my opinion ties with the majority of people here, (I would say either Rosberg or Riccardo, but couldn't really separate them.) but the question asked who is the best non WDC driver in F1 currently. And assuming the question is asking who is the best at F1, and not just driving in general, it is absurd to think that somebody who has essentially driven just six races is better at F1 than say Massa or Rosberg who have driven over 150 races each, and both has a decent title shot. 

 

So yeah, given people's prejudices, I am taking the results with a little pinch of salt. 

[HeadFirst]

Ricciardo and bottas have to be the top for the way they handle pressure when dicing with world champ drivers.
but bottas was terrible in the wet and ricciardo is off the pace this sEason in a crap car that is often slower than a torro rosso...
Rosberg doesn't cope well once Hamilton decides it's time to push for the title.
just compare how button held up as hamilton's team mate.
Rosberg folds up when it matters. Relatively speaking of course. He's still quite fast.
Massa did enough to be champion, but that was 7 years ago. He's still very quick, would like to see williams improve and he get a win or two

I don't know about hulkenberg. Will.his height and weight hold him back in a competitive car? Talent isn't enough at this level

 

I'd like to see Williams get a better driver, and score a win or two.

[SealTheDiffuser]

I'd like to see Williams get a better driver, and score a win or two.

 

sadly this won't happen

[zanquis]

In his top days Massa is as good as those WDC's out there.
He deserved the title that he missed by just 1 corner.

 

For the rest it is a race between Riccardo and Hulkenberg.

I am going for the later as he has the momentum right now.
So voted Hulkenberg.

 

But that is also only because the best non-WDC is still learning the ropes and needs to get it good together.

[Marklar]

Nothing to debate, unfortunately. It's a claim that sounds like made up out of thin air because you always need something to support your opinion (especially if you've got a very special opinion). And as a F1 journo it's pretty easy to say "There is data out there that confirm my opinion, but I can't tell you more, because obviously it's secret".

Allen argues, Hülkenberg isn't always able to combine his personal sector best times into one hot lap. Who of the drivers is? Hülkenbergs weakness isn't qualifying, that's for sure. One of the worst articles I've read for a long time (including the part about Bottas and the speculation about Button).

On the bolded: Yes, thats the worst thing. But its not just Allen: AMuS is doing the same for example.

 

I made on the other thread an comparison about this matter. And yeah, it is not Hulkenbergs strenght to combine his best sector times together, but he is in a good company (its notable on the other hand that we have 4 WDC in the top 5, which could also mean something)

(Malaysia was rain affected, Comparison is been made between the combined best lap and
 the best lap in the last segment for each driver)         

             AUS     CHI     BAH     ESP     MON     CAN     AUT     GBR      AVG
Hamilton     +0.007  +0.000  +0.026  +0.162  +0.071  +0.130  +0.000  +0.000 | +0.049
Vettel       +0.036  +0.000  +0.000  +0.088  +0.004  +0.230  +0.000  +0.148 | +0.063
Button       +0.000  +0.000  -       +0.162  +0.291  -       +0.000  +0.000 | +0.075
Bottas       +0.362  +0.000  +0.000  +0.199  +0.008  +0.000  +0.000  +0.109 | +0.084
Alonso       -       +0.000  +0.009  +0.211  +0.223  +0.000  +0.000  +0.190 | +0.090
Kvyat        +0.190  +0.001  +0.000  +0.206  +0.039  +0.227  +0.000  +0.116 | +0.097
Nasr         +0.000  +0.050  +0.000  +0.380  +0.064  +0.269  +0.087  +0.000 | +0.106
Ericsson     +0.174  +0.172  +0.000  +0.000  +0.001  +0.072  +0.187  +0.249 | +0.106
Sainz        +0.208  +0.205  +0.000  +0.000  +0.170  +0.040  +0.113  +0.138 | +0.109
Hulkenberg   +0.071  +0.251  +0.086  +0.000  +0.218  +0.166  +0.000  +0.118 | +0.113
Verstappen   +0.052  +0.222  +0.010  +0.000  +0.437  +0.065  +0.049  +0.155 | +0.123
Rosberg      +0.292  +0.014  +0.024  +0.129  +0.024  +0.219  +0.350  +0.000 | +0.131
Perez        +0.000  +0.387  +0.000  +0.112  +0.000  +0.402  +0.000  +0.311 | +0.151
Massa        +0.009  +0.000  +0.295  +0.734  +0.041  +0.132  +0.113  +0.001 | +0.166
Ricciardo    +0.001  +0.000  +0.167  +0.373  +0.116  +0.198  +0.038  +0.496 | +0.173
Raikkonen    +0.396  +0.204  +0.107  +0.410  +0.240  +0.021  +0.000  +0.181 | +0.194
Grosjean     +0.011  +0.178  +0.427  +0.344  +0.341  +0.106  +0.000  +0.353 | +0.220
Maldonado    +0.861  +0.013  +0.000  +0.325  +0.253  +0.071  +0.633  +0.182 | +0.292

[TurnOffTheLights]

 

On the bolded: Yes, thats the worst thing. But its not just Allen: AMuS is doing the same for example.

 

I made on the other thread an comparison about this matter. And yeah, it is not Hulkenbergs strenght to combine his best sector times together, but he is in a good company (its notable on the other hand that we have 4 WDC in the top 5, which could also mean something)

(Malaysia was rain affected, Comparison is been made between the combined best lap and
 the best lap in the last segment for each driver)         

             AUS     CHI     BAH     ESP     MON     CAN     AUT     GBR      AVG
Hamilton     +0.007  +0.000  +0.026  +0.162  +0.071  +0.130  +0.000  +0.000 | +0.049
Vettel       +0.036  +0.000  +0.000  +0.088  +0.004  +0.230  +0.000  +0.148 | +0.063
Button       +0.000  +0.000  -       +0.162  +0.291  -       +0.000  +0.000 | +0.075
Bottas       +0.362  +0.000  +0.000  +0.199  +0.008  +0.000  +0.000  +0.109 | +0.084
Alonso       -       +0.000  +0.009  +0.211  +0.223  +0.000  +0.000  +0.190 | +0.090
Kvyat        +0.190  +0.001  +0.000  +0.206  +0.039  +0.227  +0.000  +0.116 | +0.097
Nasr         +0.000  +0.050  +0.000  +0.380  +0.064  +0.269  +0.087  +0.000 | +0.106
Ericsson     +0.174  +0.172  +0.000  +0.000  +0.001  +0.072  +0.187  +0.249 | +0.106
Sainz        +0.208  +0.205  +0.000  +0.000  +0.170  +0.040  +0.113  +0.138 | +0.109
Hulkenberg   +0.071  +0.251  +0.086  +0.000  +0.218  +0.166  +0.000  +0.118 | +0.113
Verstappen   +0.052  +0.222  +0.010  +0.000  +0.437  +0.065  +0.049  +0.155 | +0.123
Rosberg      +0.292  +0.014  +0.024  +0.129  +0.024  +0.219  +0.350  +0.000 | +0.131
Perez        +0.000  +0.387  +0.000  +0.112  +0.000  +0.402  +0.000  +0.311 | +0.151
Massa        +0.009  +0.000  +0.295  +0.734  +0.041  +0.132  +0.113  +0.001 | +0.166
Ricciardo    +0.001  +0.000  +0.167  +0.373  +0.116  +0.198  +0.038  +0.496 | +0.173
Raikkonen    +0.396  +0.204  +0.107  +0.410  +0.240  +0.021  +0.000  +0.181 | +0.194
Grosjean     +0.011  +0.178  +0.427  +0.344  +0.341  +0.106  +0.000  +0.353 | +0.220
Maldonado    +0.861  +0.013  +0.000  +0.325  +0.253  +0.071  +0.633  +0.182 | +0.292

 

Could you do the same for 2014, too? If that's not too much of a hassle? Furthermore, I'd be interested in medians instead of averages.

[Marklar]

Could you do the same for 2014, too? If that's not too much of a hassle? Furthermore, I'd be interested in medians instead of averages.

The median is easily to calcute (for 2015)

 

Button         +0.000

Bottas         +0.004

Alonso        +0.009

Hamilton     +0.016

Vettel          +0.020

Perez          +0.056

Nasr            +0.057

Verstappen +0.058

Rosberg      +0.076

Massa         +0.077

Kvyat           +0.077

Hulk             +0.102

Ericsson       +0.122

Sainz            +0.125

Ricciardo      +0.141

Raikkonen    +0.192

Maldonado   +0.217

Grosjean      +0.259

 

I can do the same for 2014 when I'm arriving at home tonight. It should be done quite fast ;)

[TurnOffTheLights]

I think data for 2015 is not significant enough, because that's only 8 races. 2014 and maybe 2014 + 2015 should give us better knowledge, if there is some truth behind the claim of Hülkenberg not being able to put everything together.

Otherwise, Perez seems to be able more often (4 out of 8 times), but is still slower than Hulk.

That's why I think we need more data. Thanks in advance.

Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 20 July 2015 - 17:05.

[RubalSher]

What data is this?

[GhostR]

I think data for 2015 is not significant enough, because that's only 8 races. 2014 and maybe 2014 + 2015 should give us better knowledge, if there is some truth behind the claim of Hülkenberg not being able to put everything together.
Otherwise, Perez seems to be able more often (4 out of 8 times), but is still slower than Hulk.
That's why I think we need more data. Thanks in advance.

Agreed. Especially with some 2015 packages being more or less consistent than 2014. Eg Red Bull and Lotus both having very different seasons.

[Marklar]

What data is this?

Difference between the combined best lap time in Qualifying compare to the best lap of each driver in the last segment. We try to find out if the claim that Hulkenberg is unable to put his best sector times together compare to the top level driver is true.

Edited by Marklar, 20 July 2015 - 18:29.

[PlatenGlass]

The problem with these stats is that if you are in a top car, you need to do less to get into Q3 and you might use fewer revs etc., so you're less likely to accidentally set a time you can't later beat in Q1 or Q2.

And also, your "banker" in Q3 might not be a brilliant lap but still better sectors than you've done before. You then might then totally overcook it on your second lap but your stats would still look good because even though you could and should have gone faster there might be no sector times to prove it.

But anyway if this is true of Hulkenburg, it's also certainly been true of Hamilton at various times in his career as he has very often overcooked things in Q3. Including last year quite a bit.

[RubalSher]

Difference between the combined best lap time in Qualifying compare to the best lap of each driver in the last segment. We try to find out if the claim that Hulkenberg is unable to put his best sector times together compare to the top level driver is true.

 

Thanks, suggest you compare in 3 separate buckets.

 

Bucket 1: Merc, Ferrari, Williams.

Bucket 2: FI, TR, Lotus, RBR.

Bucket 3: McLaren, Sauber, Marussia.

[Marklar]

The problem with these stats is that if you are in a top car, you need to do less to get into Q3 and you might use fewer revs etc., so you're less likely to accidentally set a time you can't later beat in Q1 or Q2.And also, your "banker" in Q3 might not be a brilliant lap but still better sectors than you've done before. You then might then totally overcook it on your second lap but your stats would still look good because even though you could and should have gone faster there might be no sector times to prove it.But anyway if this is true of Hulkenburg, it's also certainly been true of Hamilton at various times in his career as he has very often overcooked things in Q3. Including last year quite a bit.

The track condotions are usually better later in the session so its always likely to improve. Only problem is that its possible that in the Q3 some drivers are just driving with worn tyres.

Edited by Marklar, 20 July 2015 - 21:26.

[Marklar]

Thats the whole thing for 2014 (just the current drivers), this time just with the median as it was requested ;)

(Australia, Malaysia, China, Great Britain and Belgium were rain affected and are excluded)

           BAH    ESP    MON    CAN    AUT    GER    HUN    ITA    SIN    JPN    RUS    USA    BRA    ABD    | Median
Vettel     +0.000 +0.000 +0.082 +0.022 +0.068 +0.111 +0.044 +0.000 +0.000 +0.000 +0.043 +0.000 +0.000 +0.098 | +0.011
Rosberg    +0.000 +0.012 +0.000 +0.008 +0.188 +0.005 +0.000 +0.143 +0.050 +0.070 +0.189 +0.000 +0.162 +0.053 | +0.032
Ricciardo  +0.000 +0.000 +0.044 +0.206 +0.091 +0.000 +0.058 +0.068 +0.117 +0.043 +0.100 +0.000 +0.000 +0.010 | +0.043
Grosjean   +0.000 +0.027 +0.231 +0.057 +0.280 +0.234 +0.019 +0.049 +0.143 +0.005 +0.004 +0.287 +0.191 +0.025 | +0.053
Ericsson   +0.000 +0.000 +0.365 +0.112 +0.241 -      +0.158 +0.010 +0.185 +0.028 +0.000 -      -      -      | +0.070
Bottas     +0.058 +0.000 +0.226 +0.116 +0.000 +0.000 +0.023 +0.092 +0.000 +0.101 +0.315 +0.127 +0.133 +0.051 | +0.075
Perez      +0.055 +0.000 +0.660 +0.000 +0.195 +0.001 +0.000 +0.095 +0.190 +0.000 +0.098 +0.008 +0.146 +0.000 | +0.076
Alonso     +0.299 +0.025 +0.153 +0.004 +0.260 +0.000 +0.116 +0.000 +0.199 +0.122 +0.147 +0.048 +0.000 +0.012 | +0.082
Hulkenberg +0.335 +0.000 +0.109 +0.078 +0.038 +0.015 +0.343 +0.214 +0.068 +0.306 +0.000 +0.189 +0.283 +0.044 | +0.093
Hamilton   +0.000 +0.000 +0.067 +0.096 +0.434 +0.346 -      +0.000 +0.120 +0.010 +0.215 +0.167 +0.046 +0.186 | +0.096
Raikkonen  +0.000 +0.047 +0.211 +0.113 +0.214 +0.067 +0.239 +0.136 +0.000 +0.000 +0.204 +0.000 +0.114 +0.083 | +0.098
Button     +0.000 +0.004 +0.407 +0.100 +0.128 +0.140 +0.092 +0.045 +0.099 +0.150 +0.042 +0.000 +0.202 +0.226 | +0.099
Maldonado  +0.000 -      +0.645 +0.396 +0.000 +0.789 -      +0.048 +0.501 +0.000 +0.239 +0.163 +0.029 +0.000 | +0.105
Massa      +0.114 +0.641 +0.027 +0.123 +0.008 +0.000 +0.213 +0.071 +0.105 +0.109 +0.220 +0.112 +0.092 +0.063 | +0.107
Kvyat      +0.088 +0.136 +0.589 +0.313 +0.283 +0.011 +0.303 +0.005 +0.414 +0.000 +0.140 +0.107 +0.091 +0.151 | +0.143

We can clearly assume that everything is a bit random (eventhought Vettels record is impressive), but again Hulkenberg is not really impressive in this aspect. Seeing these figures I think that Allen is refering to 2014 everything else would not make sense.

[TurnOffTheLights]

While the claim itself might be true, the 2014 data shows us, it's pretty irrelevant. Button, Räikkönen, Hamilton - 3 WDCs are even worse than Hülkenberg, Alonso just slightly better although thrashing Räikkönen. Again, Perez has better stats than Hulk, but lost his quali duel to him. Ricciardo 3rd best in 2014, but 4th last in 2015. Hamilton at the front in 2015, but at the back end in 2014, Rosberg vice versa.

Ericsson being up there at the front in 2014, while Kvyat being last: I think it's reasonable to say, these statistics are more or less meaningless concerning driver skills.

 

Conclusion: Allens claim might contain some truth (although Hülkenberg isn't particularly bad), but I doubt, any team will use this data to decide, if a driver should be hired or not.

Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 21 July 2015 - 11:32.

[alframsey]

This poll has made me realise just how strong the F1 grid is at the moment.

[alframsey]

This poll has made me realise just how strong the F1 grid is at the moment.

[KTownDevil]

Easy: The Hulk

[Marklar]

While the claim itself might be true, the 2014 data shows us, it's pretty irrelevant. Button, Räikkönen, Hamilton - 3 WDCs are even worse than Hülkenberg, Alonso just slightly better although thrashing Räikkönen. Again, Perez has better stats than Hulk, but lost his quali duel to him. Ricciardo 3rd best in 2014, but 4rd last in 2015. Hamilton at the front in 2015, but at the back end in 2014, Rosberg vice versa.

Ericsson being up there at the front in 2014, while Kvyat being last: I think it's reasonable to say, these statistics are more or less meaningless concerning driver skills.

 

Conclusion: Allens claim might contain some truth (although Hülkenberg isn't particularly bad), but I doubt, any team will use this data to decide, if a driver should be hired or not.

Fully agree. Its true that this is not his strength as it is proven that he wasnt good in two consecutive years (probably more), but its for sure not the important point. And you see how random it is between two years....

[RubalSher]

Fully agree. Its true that this is not his strength as it is proven that he wasnt good in two consecutive years (probably more), but its for sure not the important point. And you see how random it is between two years....

 

The reason the data is not appearing meaningful is because for example Hamilton shows up very poorly in Austria and Germany. Austria was his mistake in Q3 but the numbers as a result show up wrong. Same with Germany. I am just guessing that a lot of the data points for many drivers dont account for these incidents.

[Marklar]

The reason the data is not appearing meaningful is because for example Hamilton shows up very poorly in Austria and Germany. Austria was his mistake in Q3 but the numbers as a result show up wrong. Same with Germany. I am just guessing that a lot of the data points for many drivers dont account for these incidents.

First of all we are not talking about Lewis here. Secondly it is true that incidents like mechanical issues during the lap or yellow flags (Monaco is a good example for that) are not taken into account. But it is likely that this is somehow balance out during the season. And the median is leaving out these outliers anyway. And if not we stil have the data from both seasons and in both seasons Hulkenberg was not that spectacular which proofs that Allen is right about that in general, but as I said: it cant be that important as it is suggested.

Edited by Marklar, 21 July 2015 - 19:49.

[kvyatfan]

Considering that Kvyat is less than ten points behind Riccardo (with a missed race) and Will Stevens has more votes than Kvyat, I don't think that we need to take the results of the poll too seriously here. 

Suggests a good reason to cheer for drivers outside of one's home country.