113 replies to this topic

[smitten]

I'll accept that, but people have survived huge decelerations in the past, as long as they're of small duration.

 

Eh? Surely the g-force is inversely proportional to the duration of deceleration (assuming constant rate).  Very high g is bad.

[l12mcg]

I'm just trying to figure out if Bianchis death would have been avoided by a canopy. Because the canopy would be very small its very likely that Bianchis head would have hit the canopy from the inside with near similar strength. I'm not at all convinced a canopy would have done much to protect Bianchi. If it was a saloon car with room for the head to move around that would be a different story.

 

 

A suitably strong canopy may have saved either of them, given that they died because of cockpit intrusions.

 

You are both missing the point, Bianchi did not die from his head hitting anything - it did but that didn't do the damage - the injuries were cause by the decleration of the head, this would occur in a closed cockpit car as well because it still stops in the same space. The brain continues traveling within the skull then it impacts the inside of the skull. You can cause the same injury without ever impacting the head. The only thing that would have saved him is not hitting the crane. We are talking a 200+ G impact, it just is not survivable. You can not slow from 80 mph to 0 in <5 m (0.1 seconds) and survive. The time in which the impact happens needs to be increased, this isn't really possible with any addition to the cars, unfortunately he would have died in any car in that crash.

 

Also on this whole thing, all the pictures of cars on top of each other in the last 5 years are actually examples of the current high-sided cockpits saving the lives of the drivers... Not examples of near misses. The crash at Abu Dhabi where the FI mounts the merc is the most extreme you can imagine (front on with the tray) and it still did not impact the head. The only way a drivers head can be impacted is by an object approaching from above to directly in front (directly in front needs to be small enough for the sides not to deflect the object). Most of the risk of this occuring is taken away by things like the tethers for the tyres. Massa in 09 is a concern but in it's self that doesn't require a canopy which does add other risks.

Edited by l12mcg, 24 July 2015 - 14:50.

[nosecone]

I'll accept that, but people have survived huge decelerations in the past, as long as they're of small duration.

 

 

 

I agree that it's not a guarantee that a canopy would have helped, but it could have.

 

Bearing in mind that the monocoque also has to be strong enough to protect the driver in the same way, and most are also sloped at the nose nowadays, I think this issue of canopies launching debris is being overstated by those who are against any change.

 

 

Eh? Surely the g-force is inversely proportional to the duration of deceleration (assuming constant rate).  Very high g is bad.

 

Both is true. People have survived high g forces which lasted only milliseconds.

 

Re 2nd quote: G force is inversely proportional to the duration of deceleration. True. but this doesn't make PYR comment less valid

[smitten]

Both is true. People have survived high g forces which lasted only milliseconds.

 

People have survived being shot, but still better not to be.

[ANF]

You are both missing the point, Bianchi did not die from his head hitting anything - it did but that didn't do the damage

My understanding is that it DID and that there were two forces that caused the massive head injury: the car hitting the tractor AND the helmet hitting the sloping underside of the tractor and being force down (and probably to one side).

But no, I can't imagine that a canopy would have been strong enough to protect the helmet from being pushed down in a similar way.

[whitewaterMkII]

Kenny Brack survived this incredible shunt, and I still wonder how. It was said that the onboard accelerometer hit 214gs.

Yikes.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=aVpux5JxqEk

[Retrofly]

Isn't the point that this is F1, not prototype, or GT cars.

 

Its like telling motorcyclist to get 4 wheels instead of 2 and to wear a seat belt because its safer.

 

Safety can go so far, at some point people have to be able to make their own decisions about how much risk they are willing to have.

Take the IOM TT, is dangerous as hell and a killer, but thats what makes it the IOM TT. take away the walls and houses and cliffs, and replace them with armco, tire walls and protection barriers, you've got Superbikes.

Edited by Retrofly, 24 July 2015 - 16:00.

[superden]

Kenny Brack survived this incredible shunt, and I still wonder how. It was said that the onboard accelerometer hit 214gs.
Yikes.

https://www.youtube....h?v=aVpux5JxqEk

David Purley was around 180g.

[Jackmancer]

Another obvious example is Cristiano da Matta's accident with a deer at Road America. He spend two months in hospital.

[ANF]

Another near miss at 1:26. The stray wheel misses the drivers head but knocks off his left front wheel.

[PayasYouRace]

Kenny Brack survived this incredible shunt, and I still wonder how. It was said that the onboard accelerometer hit 214gs.

Yikes.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=aVpux5JxqEk

 

There's no sudden stop there. The 214g must have been caused by the spinning. I wouldn't like to be spun that fast, but it's a different way of applying forces to the body.

[midgrid]

It looks like IndyCar driver Justin Wilson has just been struck in the head by the detached nosecone of a rival's crashed car. 

[Jimisgod]

Yeah, something needs to be done soon. This seems to be the glaring risk in this decade of motorsport like the lack of HANS was in the last.

[FredrikB]

Yeah, something needs to be done soon. This seems to be the glaring risk in this decade of motorsport like the lack of HANS was in the last.

 

I think you are right.

It seems to me that modern open wheelers has more bits and pieces falling of them than before.