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What was Ferrari's advantage in 2002 and 2004?


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#101 TIPO61

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 21:05

I'm gonna vote with the Rory Byrne fans, even though Schumi was the icing on the cake.



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#102 ViMaMo

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 10:12

It was not right on part of FIA ... Max Moseley? to sometimes handicap the opposition. But there were teams/drivers that overcame that. That's what its about in the end. Renault/Fernando beat Ferrari/Schumacher at their own game.

#103 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 18:09

It was not right on part of FIA ... Max Moseley? to sometimes handicap the opposition. But there were teams/drivers that overcame that. That's what its about in the end. Renault/Fernando beat Ferrari/Schumacher at their own game.

 

 

I am sorry but I don't agree entirely with this. I still wonder what the outcome of the 2005 season could have been if unlimited tire changes still had been allowed  that year. With the ban on tire changes that year Michelin really got an advantage they could only dream about.

Ferrari was nowhere because of that rule change.

 

for 2006 that rule was reversed again so for that year I tend to agree with you.

 

 

Henri



#104 xtremeclock

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 18:40

I am sorry but I don't agree entirely with this. I still wonder what the outcome of the 2005 season could have been if unlimited tire changes still had been allowed  that year. With the ban on tire changes that year Michelin really got an advantage they could only dream about.

Ferrari was nowhere because of that rule change.

 

for 2006 that rule was reversed again so for that year I tend to agree with you.

 

 

Henri

 

If i remember correctly the 2006 season was all about the Mass Damper with Alonso winning 6 GPs (3 x 2nd places) in the first nine races, after the MD was banned he only won @ Suzuka after MSC had an engine failure.



#105 Henri Greuter

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 19:00

If i remember correctly the 2006 season was all about the Mass Damper with Alonso winning 6 GPs (3 x 2nd places) in the first nine races, after the MD was banned he only won @ Suzuka after MSC had an engine failure.

 

 

Correct about the mass damper,

It was deemed legal for some time though to me it was strange to consider a part that was not directly connected to the suspension at all  was seen as a part of the suspension of the car so from a strict application of rules and spirit of use I was glad to see it banned.

(Was impressed how efficient it must have been on the reault because, once it was gone the car instantly lost its dominance.

Funny enough, it is always assumed and often stated that Ferrari was behind the ban of the thing but I have read in an Autosport magazine article of that time that the first team that wanted it to go (because they couldn't make it work either) was McLaren.

 

 

 

Henri


Edited by Henri Greuter, 02 August 2015 - 19:01.


#106 Counterbalance

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 19:47

Correct about the mass damper,

It was deemed legal for some time though to me it was strange to consider a part that was not directly connected to the suspension at all  was seen as a part of the suspension of the car so from a strict application of rules and spirit of use I was glad to see it banned.

(Was impressed how efficient it must have been on the reault because, once it was gone the car instantly lost its dominance.

Funny enough, it is always assumed and often stated that Ferrari was behind the ban of the thing but I have read in an Autosport magazine article of that time that the first team that wanted it to go (because they couldn't make it work either) was McLaren.

 

 

 

Henri

 

I also heard the same thing. And I'll never get my head around why it was classed as a "moveable aerodynamic device". It smacked of politics, but then Ferrari were the master of politics during the early noughties. I'll never forget Michelingate. Apparently after the race where Michelin tyres were deemed "illegal" (although they had used the same mould for the previous 36 races and it remained the same afterwards), the crisis meeting was held the following day....at Maranello! That entire episode was a load of crap designed to destabilise Michelin shod teams at the following three day test at Monza, which it did - and surprise, surprise, Ferrari won the following three races which handed them the championship on a plate, because in esscence they enjoyed the three day test whilst Michelin runners were mired in politics courtesty of the boys in red, Max Mosley and his FIA appointed clowns. 270mm when new the regulation read, not 270mm when the treads expanded, yet lo and behold Ferrari got their interpretation passed. 2003 was a shameful season, but I think it was a prime, if not the prime example of the real advantage they held for quite some time.



#107 Imateria

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Posted 02 August 2015 - 19:59

Bridgestone's philosophy at that time was to improve their tyres with the best team available who could run the most miles which ended up being Ferrari.  When others complained about the tyres not suiting their cars, Bridgestone would recommend they design cars similar in concept to Ferrari.

 

IIRC BAR-Honda did exactly this in 2003 with a longer car similar to the Ferrari and saw an improvement in performance but could not get Bridgestone to move an inch in favour of supplying tyres that addressed their own issues.  Honda even had direct meetings with Bridgestone threatening to pull OEM contracts because they were so infuriated with their attitude.  When that didn't work they switched to Michelin.

 

In 2004 IIRC because BAR did pretty well out of the box Michelin started to run their tyre project around them just as Bridgestone had done with Ferrari although they were far more flexible addressing the needs of their other teams.  When BAR didn't do so well in 2005 Michelin immediately switched focus to Renault.  The problem with this attitude is that while meritocratic Michelin had to wait to see which of their teams was quickest before focussing attention on them while Bridgestone worked in partnership with Ferrari from the very first steps of designing both the car and tyre.

One other thing to add to this was a rule change for 2005 that allowed the tyre suppliers to develop bespoke tyres for each of their teams. Bridgestone ignored this and continued to focus on Ferrari (probably a big reason why they only had Jordan and Minardi on their books as well) whilst Michelin designed tyres for each of their teams. This probably went a long way to helping Renault in particular who had a very unque design philosophy with a more rearwards weight distribution than any one else, giving them excellent traction and ligtning starts, and finally the tyres to match.

 

Which was of their own doing. Who was stopping other teams from working with other tire manufactures to develop bespoke tires for their own cars? Who stopped other teams from building their own backyard test tracks? Nobody.

Ferrari simply took better advantage of the regulations at the time and were championship levels in other important areas like aero and their engine. They were strong in all areas, not only tires.

Bridgestone for starters, why do you think most of the teams jumped ship? And what other tyre manufacturers, other than Michelin no one else was even looking at F1, which is hardly a surprise since none of the other tyre companies had the technical and financial resources to match them at the time. Michelin tried to supply tyres that would work with all their customers, Bridgestone deliberatly screwed over most of their customers in favour of Ferrari. As for the test track, McLaren actually bough Lydden Hill with the intent of doing just that, but then came the testing ban that put paid to that idea.

 

Your last two sentences are spot on though.



#108 CoolBreeze

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 03:01

I posted this on the Michael Schumacher recovery thread. Me thinks the advantage Ferrari had was purely simple. Hard work and dedication. 

 

Atlas F1 Magazine Volume 4, Number 14, September 2, 1998

The expression on Michael Schumacher's face said it all. Regardless of whether he was right or wrong - the ice cold German was fuming. Schumacher, renowned for his low blood pressure, was already on the verge of explosion when he made his way to the pits in a tricycled Ferrari, after colliding with McLaren's David Coulthard, bringing an end to an almost certain victorious race. "Michael, calm down," was the repeating message from Ross Brawn on the radio, as he observed worriedly the German's personal telemetry showing a higher heartbeat rate than ever.

But Schumacher cannot calm down, not even after three days of a rest at his recently purchased estate in Switzerland. "I could have gone to Monza leading the World Championship by three points, three points!" he says, and it would be a safe bet to say, that Schumacher - who rarely looks back at his own actions - is still reliving the crucial seconds that might eventually cost him this year's title. It would be a safe bet, anyway, for anyone who watched Schumacher prepare in the last couple of weeks for the Belgian Grand Prix.

Hungary's Grand Prix win was a mere surprise, a bonus. The table overturn, in Schumacher's plan, was to happen at his favorite track, Spa Francorchamps. And everything that he did in the last few weeks was directed at that race on Sunday. "In order to beat the McLarens," wrote Peter Windsor in the latest F1Racing magazine issue, "Michael had to take more risks than most drivers take in a decade." And indeed, Schumacher was never seen - on track and off track - as blindly dedicated to a mission as he was, leading to his eruption in the McLaren's pit garage on Sunday. 

The writer Hans Borchert escorted Michael Schumacher in the last three weeks, following him everywhere he went. He spoke to his friends, watched him work-out, test at the Fiorano track, but most of all, watched him in his loneliness. For Schumacher, it seems, is - after all - very much a lonely man, secluded by his roaring ambitions to bring the legendary Italian team Ferrari its first World Championship in nearly two decades. He has the loneliness of a Long-distance Driver, writes Borchert.

There was something in the air during the days leading up to the Belgian Grand Prix in Spa-Francorchamps. Something unmentionable, which gives one the shudders. Racing driverMichael Schumacher, 29, is tempting fate with everything in his power. His commentaries, his driving style, his muscular, well-trained body, his facial features, his every glance betray that this man has just one thing on mind. Close friends have been worried for ages. For the first time in the career of the two-time World Champion they are anxious. "Anxious that Michael will take it too far," is how Jurgen Dilk, one of his early backers, puts it.

Recently he called him and entreated him: "Michael, remember 1994. Think of Ayrton Senna's end at Imola. You are in the same situation. You often overstep the limit."

"I know," replied Schumacher with unusually frank answer, "but I owe it to myself and my team."

"It's crazy the way he rubs his arse down", said one hard-bitten Ferrari worker during the Hungarian 77 laps race. "I admire Michael immensely for the way he handles the pressure," says Sauber driver Jean Alesi, one of the few real friends Schumacher has between the current drivers. "For me, as a racing driver, this is sensational. And the way he handles the extreme curves, how he finds the ideal course, is fantastic. Earlier his style tended to be mathematical, very calculated, like a machine. Now it is all so flowing and quite natural. Only one other has ever driven like this: Ayrton Senna, during his very best time."

But everything has its price. Even for Schumacher. Little by little, he is beginning to show his age. You can read on his face, on every TV monitor, the "I will" and "I must". But occasionally, when you are right up close, like recently on Ferrari's own racing course at Fiorano, the multimillion dollar face says, "I am so tired."

In three days he ran exactly 1409.4 Kilometers of tests, a record distance for any Formula One driver. And yet, even at Ten at night, after he's been up for over 16 hours, Schumacher has a business meeting with two solicitors from London, their figures throwing long shadows in the light of the full moon as they await the driver to finish his day's course. Later, the three will go off and eat together, to discuss various financial and contract details. But as they wait, it is the solicitors yawning rather than Michael. "How he does all this I cannot imagine. Even from just watching I am dead tired," mumbles a Mr Clark. 

That is what the days and nights in Fiorano are like. Indeed, it is one of the most curious places on earth; three buildings stand there in the middle of a brown, sun-tanned landscape surrounded by a fence which is as tall as a human-being and is guarded day and night. The whole ensemble was once part of a farming complex, with stables, storage barn and living quarters. In fact, visitors are still greeted by a pottery figure of St Anthony, the patron saint of domestic animals. And right at the entrance there is the white marble bust of the Madonna. Anyone who wants to can kneel there and cross himself ten times. Schumacher, hardly a religious figure, never does.

Enzo Ferrari made the farm his headquarters in 1972. He had the racing circuit built around it and, in keeping with the taste of the time, installed a filling station. To this day, Enzo Ferrari's office and his small conference room are still kept in the main building. Nothing has been changed, and it looks as if the old boy might slip in sometimes at night and sit right down at the heavy oak desk. Telephone and short-wave radio, even the magnifying-glass reading lamp are all in place, well-dusted and polished up to perfection.

But what would the Commendatore himself have thought of Schumacher? Ferrari elders say he would have admired his driving, but the two would not have befriended. "They would have nothing in common, except the love of racing," says an old guard at Fiorano. Well, Enzo Ferrari is reputed to have built cars in order to impress women, hardly the notion you'd get from watching Schumacher, the opposite of a playboy. Enzo supposedly enjoyed female company until late in his life, and in that very spot where several adventures are reported to have taken place, Michael Schumacher now spends the nights like a hermit.

He sleeps there in the most modest surroundings - a bed, a sofa, a chest of drawers and a sports-bag with very few clothes. The only human companionship he has is his physio-therapist Balbir Singh, sleeping next door. They share a toilet and a shower, but hardly share a conversation; Schumacher is seldom alone, but often very lonely.

But what seems to some so Spartan is actually considered by Schumacher himself a great privilege and absolute luxury. No Ferrari driver before him ever lived in this house and none ever shared what the Commendatore so treasured: the quietness and remoteness Fiorano has to offer. In the former shed where ploughs, harrows and barrows once stood, a complete physical fitness studio has been installed for Schumacher, and the lights are often on until after midnight. And at other times, you can see his shadowy figure jogging all alone along the asphalt track to the accompaniment of grasshoppers chirping. That is what he likes, that is all he can focus on. Anything else is a distraction.

"I do nothing but train and drive," says a very serene Schumacher, "and I have no time for playing around." Indeed, the test program now, shortly before the end of the season, is almost wider than at the beginning of the year. New brakes have to be tried out; shock-absorbers and suspensions have to be checked; new aerodynamic components tested for suitability; and racing situations are simulated.

Then Schumacher goes the whole distance, right to the limit. If any other Grand Prix driver has to endure the full distance once, maybe twice, every fortnight, Schumacher does it twice a week at least. And his Ferrari is looking as if it had been hit by a round of machine-gun fire. All over the carbon-fibre chassis there are gashes and holes, and the mechanics have all sort of things to screw on. Their mutual motto: put the lid on and take it off again. Schumacher's vehicle has had so many adjustments made to it, it is by now referred to as "the mobile building site".

On one of those long testing days, Schumacher was doing over 160 laps - quite a boring sight, really, watching the man punch in a lap after lap, with no Murray to shout at your ear or other drivers to add to the tension. On the small grandstand, in the shade of a plane tree, a few spectators look on wearily. Suddenly, his car slips off the track and ploughs across the adjoining gravel. Everyone wakes up instantly: the fire-service, the paramedics and, above all, the mechanics who are slacking around eating ice creams. They all dash over, but things are already under control - Schumacher disengages and reverses over the grass verge, back onto the track.

Someone says: "You sometimes forget that even here a mistake could cost him his life."

How does he endure it? "Practice," says Michael Schumacher and grins. He says he has for some time now been the equivalent of an experienced professional trucker because this year, with training, tests and races, he has chalked up 30,000 kilometres. At an average speed, remember, of well over 200 kph.

But that is not all. During training he packs his days full of other obligations, including several business meetings, press interviews, sponsorship luncheons and he even manages to fit in four takes for a new Fiat commercial between several test runs.

Michael Schumacher takes life at a breathless pace, always looking vital. But early in the morning, when he is sitting up in his room, he looks weak, his eyes bloodshot from the strain of the previous day. It seems as if he must gather up strength to get going again. 

You ask him, "How much is too much?" and also: "How fast is too fast?"

His answer, always the same - "Wait and see."



#109 ViMaMo

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 06:00

^^ This and video of Ron Dennis talking to Michael..... its revealing how on the limit MS was every time ! Didn't know about it. 



#110 midgrid

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 07:16

One other thing to add to this was a rule change for 2005 that allowed the tyre suppliers to develop bespoke tyres for each of their teams. Bridgestone ignored this and continued to focus on Ferrari (probably a big reason why they only had Jordan and Minardi on their books as well) whilst Michelin designed tyres for each of their teams. This probably went a long way to helping Renault in particular who had a very unque design philosophy with a more rearwards weight distribution than any one else, giving them excellent traction and ligtning starts, and finally the tyres to match.


IIRC the R25 was also a significantly more "normal" car in terms of weight distribution than the R24 and its immediate predecessors. I can't remember off the top of my head, but was it also powered by the first Renault engine in its generation with a 90-degree V-angle, instead of the wider angle that the team initially preferred in 2001?

Michelin may not have favoured Renault to the same extent that Bridgestone favoured Ferrari, but it was telling that Renault immediately lost ground to McLaren when the teams first fitted Bridgestones to their 2006 cars in preparation for the 2007 season.

#111 scheivlak

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 07:20

If i remember correctly the 2006 season was all about the Mass Damper with Alonso winning 6 GPs (3 x 2nd places) in the first nine races, after the MD was banned he only won @ Suzuka after MSC had an engine failure.

"All about the mass damper" is a bit of a stretch. By the time the mass damper was forbidden (at Hockenheim), the tide already seemed to have turned.  Ferrari won the USGP and France in quite convincing fashion. 



#112 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:08

IIRC the R25 was also a significantly more "normal" car in terms of weight distribution than the R24 and its immediate predecessors. I can't remember off the top of my head, but was it also powered by the first Renault engine in its generation with a 90-degree V-angle, instead of the wider angle that the team initially preferred in 2001?

Michelin may not have favoured Renault to the same extent that Bridgestone favoured Ferrari, but it was telling that Renault immediately lost ground to McLaren when the teams first fitted Bridgestones to their 2006 cars in preparation for the 2007 season.

 

 

 

I remember 2006 for one rule change for which some posters out here are still fuming of anger that it happened.

Whatever block angle V10 cofiguration Renault was using in 2005, in 2006 it was replaced for the 90 degree 2,4 liter V8.....

 

Thus in height of the center of gravity, Renault followed the opposition, lost any advantage of thelarger angle or was relieved from any disadvantage it had, read as you wish to.....

 

Henri



#113 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:13

As much as I like Schumi (I've started watching F1 because of him), but I cant believe how much people are believing in this farytale that he was the key to the succees because he apparently builed a team around him (Todt was it by the way). Thats a myth. Schumacher was a part of the succees as well as Rubens was it by the way (apparently Rubens had a better idea of getting the setup right if you want to believe in this storys but he was also the perfect #2 driver: unable to beat Schumi but getting always the best result for the team and beeing always motivated): Schumacher was able to maximize the potential of the car which is esential for the car development and he was a great guy which is also not unimportant.

 

what? Never! MSC was the the main driver of the success. By being the fasted (by a mile) of this generation,  hebattled against Newey Williams and McLaren, he encoured the people at Ferrarito give their best, he made the difference. And I never really liked him. But I wish him well.

MSC, Byrne, Bridgestone (spec made to MSC's liking).


Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 03 August 2015 - 08:41.


#114 ViMaMo

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 08:34

I remember 2006 for one rule change for which some posters out here are still fuming of anger that it happened.

Whatever block angle V10 cofiguration Renault was using in 2005, in 2006 it was replaced for the 90 degree 2,4 liter V8.....

 

Thus in height of the center of gravity, Renault followed the opposition, lost any advantage of thelarger angle or was relieved from any disadvantage it had, read as you wish to.....

 

Henri

 

They had a 90 deg V10 in 2005. 

 

-------------------

 

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/55982


Edited by ViMaMo, 03 August 2015 - 09:16.


#115 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 10:14

They had a 90 deg V10 in 2005. 

 

-------------------

 

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/55982

 

Thanks,

 

I was wrongfooted by the talks about that 111 degree engine.

 

 

Henri


Edited by Henri Greuter, 03 August 2015 - 10:14.


#116 Bleu

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 14:46

Thanks,

 

I was wrongfooted by the talks about that 111 degree engine.

 

 

Henri

IIRC Renault ditched that wide-angle engine as they were concerned about its reliability when the engines needed to be used for whole weekend.



#117 scheivlak

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 14:55

One other thing to add to this was a rule change for 2005 that allowed the tyre suppliers to develop bespoke tyres for each of their teams. Bridgestone ignored this and continued to focus on Ferrari (probably a big reason why they only had Jordan and Minardi on their books as well) whilst Michelin designed tyres for each of their teams. This probably went a long way to helping Renault in particular who had a very unque design philosophy with a more rearwards weight distribution than any one else, giving them excellent traction and ligtning starts, and finally the tyres to match.

 

 

As somebody mentioned earlier the choice of compounds was already free in 2003 which lead to Renault regularly choosing different race compounds  than Williams and McLaren in 2003 and 2004.



#118 Atreiu

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 17:53

Maybe Ferrari were just consistent for a full decade (with the exception of 05 because of the tyres) and everyone else went up in down in form.

 

98 - Ferrari were a regular front runner in a reasonably reliable car, McLaren had more speed initially but could not sustain the advantage all year long;

99 - repeat of 98 but with Ferrari even more reliable and McLaren even less reliable and competent;

00 - Ferrari and McLaren reached a rare and terrific match between their speed, reliability and form through the season. Anyone who splits hair to say either Schumacher of Hakkinen had a worse/better car is just an idiot. Barrichello was an improvement and instrumental in the WCC;

01 - Ferrari retained their speed and reliability, McLaren fell off a cliff, Williams had thoughts about joining the club;

02 - Ferrari remained fast and reliable, McLaren fell even worse, Williams stagnated;

03 - Ferrari remained fast and reliable, this time Williams and McLaren made significant strides compared to 2002 but fell short. Renault began to figure;

04 - a 2002 repeat with BAR, Renault, McLaren and Williams more or less getting in each others way all year long. Button had a terrific season;

05 - Ferrari were fast and reliable, Barrichello's worse Ferrari season along with 2001. Bridgestone were caught with their pants down and dragged Ferrari down, which somehow disturbed the powers that were so they hit the reset button for 2006. Typical of Max's days at FIA ;) ;

06 - Ferrari and Renault suffered swings but were more or less matched over the course of the season. Similar to 2000, but with Alonso prevailing;

07 - Similar to 2000 in terms of matched teams, but with all 4 pilots as genuine contenders;

08 - First time in over a decade that Ferrari took a step back without having tyres or any reglation change to blame (IIRC). Still had enough in reserve to win the WCC despite Raikkonen's bad luck and struggles, but should only really blame themselves for losing the WDC after the cheating helping hand at Spa. ;)

etc...



#119 George Costanza

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 01:59

Maybe Ferrari were just consistent for a full decade (with the exception of 05 because of the tyres) and everyone else went up in down in form.

 

98 - Ferrari were a regular front runner in a reasonably reliable car, McLaren had more speed initially but could not sustain the advantage all year long;

99 - repeat of 98 but with Ferrari even more reliable and McLaren even less reliable and competent;

00 - Ferrari and McLaren reached a rare and terrific match between their speed, reliability and form through the season. Anyone who splits hair to say either Schumacher of Hakkinen had a worse/better car is just an idiot. Barrichello was an improvement and instrumental in the WCC;

01 - Ferrari retained their speed and reliability, McLaren fell off a cliff, Williams had thoughts about joining the club;

02 - Ferrari remained fast and reliable, McLaren fell even worse, Williams stagnated;

03 - Ferrari remained fast and reliable, this time Williams and McLaren made significant strides compared to 2002 but fell short. Renault began to figure;

04 - a 2002 repeat with BAR, Renault, McLaren and Williams more or less getting in each others way all year long. Button had a terrific season;

05 - Ferrari were fast and reliable, Barrichello's worse Ferrari season along with 2001. Bridgestone were caught with their pants down and dragged Ferrari down, which somehow disturbed the powers that were so they hit the reset button for 2006. Typical of Max's days at FIA ;) ;

06 - Ferrari and Renault suffered swings but were more or less matched over the course of the season. Similar to 2000, but with Alonso prevailing;

07 - Similar to 2000 in terms of matched teams, but with all 4 pilots as genuine contenders;

08 - First time in over a decade that Ferrari took a step back without having tyres or any reglation change to blame (IIRC). Still had enough in reserve to win the WCC despite Raikkonen's bad luck and struggles, but should only really blame themselves for losing the WDC after the cheating helping hand at Spa.  ;)

etc...

 

2000 season? the McLaren was the quicker car, IMO. But it was more prone to breakdowns.

 

1998 season? Ferrari was clearly behind. The only reason they got close was Michael driving in the zone all season long.

 

For the rest of the years followed, I think Fernando Alonso's 2012 was the finest I have ever seen given his car. Not even Schumacher had a car that bad and nearly won the title, (except for 1997). All remains equal, 2002 of Michael is the best season and Seb 2013 (stats wise).


Edited by George Costanza, 04 August 2015 - 02:03.


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#120 ViMaMo

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 02:29

2000: Ferrari were right there with Mclaren pace wise. Sometimes it did feel Mclaren had the edge. But fantastic season though !! Was whooping with Michael after his steer wheel banging !!  https://en.wikipedia...mula_One_season


Edited by ViMaMo, 04 August 2015 - 02:30.


#121 GTRacer

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:13

Always makes me laugh a little when you hear people claim that the FIA were helping Ferrari in that period as that claim ignores the fact that a lot of the changes done between 2002-2005 were done to try & hurt Ferrari's advantage rather than help them.

 

The changes for 2003 were done to try & stop Ferrari's dominance & mix up the order a bit as were the changes introduced for 2005.

 

You always hear about Ferrari asking about stuff other teams were doing which ended up getting some of those things banned or restricted via rules clarifications, However the same was true to the other way round with other teams raising questions about stuff Ferrari was doing which led to some of there stuff been banned/restricted.

One such case been the Ferrari's floor in 2002, Other teams raised concerns about it after watching some slow-mo's of them going over kurb's at Imola which led to Ferrari having to redesign there floor after the FIA changed the floor deflection test. Then you had 2006 where the Ferrari bridge wing seemed to be rotating & the rear wing deflecting from the in-car camera shots, Other teams raised concerns & rules were changed that forced Ferrari (And 1-2 other teams) to make changes.

 

The problem was the media & fans always talked about the times Ferrari asked for clarifications that got stuff banned, But you very rarely heard about the times that worked the other way because it didn't fit the narrative that people wanted to believe.

 

 

 

As to why they were so good through that period, It was a combination of things rather than 1 specific thing.

 

They had a good, well organized design team thanks to Ross Brawn's influence, The team in general was probably the best organized thanks to Jean Todt & Rory Bryne was probably the only aero guy that could compete with Adrian Newey.

All this saw them produce the best car & they also had the best all round engine & with how well organized the team were they made very few mistakes. The tyres were a benefit obviously as was the vast amount of testing they were doing thanks to having a private test track right next to the factory.

 

And just as, if not more important than that they had the best driver in Michael Schumacher backed up by a great #2 in Rubens Barrichello who was amazing when it came to giving technical feedback & setting a car up.

 

And the unsung hero of the whole team was Luca Badoer who was an exceptionally good test driver (And a very good race driver at the time, Just a shame those 2 races in 2009 makes people ignore a lot of what he did when he was racing regularly).


Edited by GTRacer, 04 August 2015 - 15:14.


#122 MikeV1987

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:16

symmetry



#123 krobinson

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:54

 

And I will add that they caught Schumacher at his zenith in 2002, IMO. The following seasons, 2003 much more so, he shown signs of wear and tear, then 2004, well, we know what happened, but 2002 was a better season stats and driving wise. Starting from 1995-2002, the climax in 2002, showed that skills all coming together, of course having such a car helped. But I think 1998 season driving wise, (not with the car) was among the best.

 

Now, I think Fred's 2012-2013 seasons were absolutely on that standard. His 2012 season would certainly rival or even surpass Schumacher's seasons in "slower" cars.

 

What was special about schumacher in 2002? Barrichello was very often as fast or at times faster than him, only constant problems with his car stopped him far too often. The car was just so dominant that it was incredibly easy for Schumacher. He was far better in 2001 for example, IMO. To be honest, IMO, 2002 was one of his least impressive titles.

 

 

 

 



#124 Gyno

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 16:49

One of Schumis best seasons was 97 and 98 in my opinion.

 

Almost winning the title in cars that was not meant to even fight for the title with.



#125 Wally123

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 17:36


What was special about schumacher in 2002? Barrichello was very often as fast or at times faster than him, only constant problems with his car stopped him far too often. The car was just so dominant that it was incredibly easy for Schumacher. He was far better in 2001 for example, IMO. To be honest, IMO, 2002 was one of his least impressive titles.

Him being just as fast wouldn't have mattered anyway with the team orders Ferrari were using.





#126 Imateria

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Posted 04 August 2015 - 17:41

As somebody mentioned earlier the choice of compounds was already free in 2003 which lead to Renault regularly choosing different race compounds  than Williams and McLaren in 2003 and 2004.

Thats something different, the tyre manuacturers have always brought at least two different compounds to each race for the teams to choose from, if I remember right Renault could usually get away with running the softer compound.



#127 George Costanza

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 00:07

 

What was special about schumacher in 2002? Barrichello was very often as fast or at times faster than him, only constant problems with his car stopped him far too often. The car was just so dominant that it was incredibly easy for Schumacher. He was far better in 2001 for example, IMO. To be honest, IMO, 2002 was one of his least impressive titles.

 

 

 

 

2002 was impressive because he finished every race on the podium.... Not one driver can say that in the history of F1.