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Mouton criticises Jorda


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#1 chunder27

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:13

Not sure of the links, but seen some stories somewhere about Carmen Jorda taking a bit of flack from Michele Mouton who seemingly is involved in FISA and female motorsport drivers?

 

I would say fair play to Jorda for having a pop back, but not sure really what ammunition she has!

 

Isn't it fairly obvious why she is there?  She does not seem to be involved in driving, has no record to speak of, and seemingly is only there to pose in skimpy shorts and to get FOM to post a camera outside their pit for her alone.

 

Mouton certainly was not an amazing driver, and did not have a staggering record when she signed for Audi, but she did was make the most of it.

 

She rallied hard, won events in tough places like Brazil and Ivory Coast and showed that women, and attractive ones at that are more than capable of driving cars that had no driving aids, were hard to drive and took a lot of effort and skill to drive fast.

 

Jorda does nothing for feminism in sport, backs up all the usual stereotypes, including her is a retrograde step surely for females in sport.

 

 



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#2 SophieB

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:20

Soo...you don't know what Mouton said, nor how Jorda has responded. Going to be a good discussion. 



#3 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:25

Mouton dismisses Carmen Jorda’s F1 credentials http://www.motorspor...=2&s=1&q=mouton

 

Jorda 'surprised' by Mouton criticisms http://www.motorspor...uton-criticisms



#4 superden

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:31

I don't see how Mouton's comments are anything to be 'surprised' about. Though Jorda is bound to disagree, being that they are aimed squarely at her.

#5 Prost1997T

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:33

We all know Jorda is there for money\PR reasons, there's nothing to discuss.

#6 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:35

Jorda doesn't bother me at all. She's not even driving a car, had she been she wouldn't be 'taking someone's spot, and we all know what the story is there. So what's the great controversy? That she shows up at the races?

The way we pretend Susie Wolff was/is credible, or at least how no one really challeneged it, is 'worse' to me. In part, because of how it's part of Toto World and how no one bothers to question any of that.

#7 Fisico54

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:49

Jorda doesn't bother me at all. She's not even driving a car, had she been she wouldn't be 'taking someone's spot, and we all know what the story is there. So what's the great controversy? That she shows up at the races?

The way we pretend Susie Wolff was/is credible, or at least how no one really challeneged it, is 'worse' to me. In part, because of how it's part of Toto World and how no one bothers to question any of that.

Agreed, nobody views Jorda as a credible driver and a candidate for an F1 seat. Wolffs CV is barely any better and for some reason she keeps getting mentioned as a candidate and makes interviews and appearances as a credible potential F1 talent which is a disservice to women drivers and F1.

#8 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:53

Jorda is just there for her looks really, and can you blame them. :clap:

 

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#9 noikeee

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 11:55

Jorda doesn't bother me at all. She's not even driving a car, had she been she wouldn't be 'taking someone's spot, and we all know what the story is there. So what's the great controversy? That she shows up at the races?

The way we pretend Susie Wolff was/is credible, or at least how no one really challeneged it, is 'worse' to me. In part, because of how it's part of Toto World and how no one bothers to question any of that.

 

Because Jorda is marketed as a "driver", is given stupid bullshit attention thinly disguised as that, and is the only... erm... representant of the female gender in F1 at the moment. I can definitely see how she does damage to the credibility of actual talented girls who drive, by giving ammunition to sexists.

 

Agreed on Susie.

 

Jorda's record on GP3 is hilarious by the way. In a whole 3 seasons she only finished a single race above 17th place once.  :lol: In equal cars. In a series more than half the people competing don't ever get to take a look at F1's door.



#10 FerrariV12

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:03

Jorda doesn't bother me at all. She's not even driving a car, had she been she wouldn't be 'taking someone's spot, and we all know what the story is there. So what's the great controversy? That she shows up at the races?

The way we pretend Susie Wolff was/is credible, or at least how no one really challeneged it, is 'worse' to me. In part, because of how it's part of Toto World and how no one bothers to question any of that.

 

Agreed, some of the indignation (mostly on Sky tbh but I'm sure I remember the odd comment here) when Williams dared to hire Adrian Sutil as a reserve in the wake of Bottas' injury scare as if this was blocking some great talent's potential opportunity was...strange.

 

And they weren't referring to Alex Lynn either.

 

Although I did hear/read one comment somewhere re. Jorda along the lines of "they [Lotus] have room for the slowest driver in GP3 but not the quickest in F3", but I think that was Palmer basically taking Ocon's role with the team, and I get the impression that Jorda's role basically wouldn't exist if it wasn't for her and her money. I admit her GP3 track record really is woeful, I remember Stoneman jumped in her car and promptly won with it after she'd been 3 secs or so off the pace, but as long as she's not taking anyone's ride or blocking anyone else, no harm done.


Edited by FerrariV12, 29 July 2015 - 12:05.


#11 Jimisgod

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:08

Who are these people?



#12 chunder27

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:10

Only harm done is to the image of women in motorsport.

 

If you think that is not harm done fair enough.

 

I think it is absolutely pathetic.



#13 ensign14

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:47

We all know Jorda is there for money\PR reasons, there's nothing to discuss.

 
And for the eye candy.  I thought she was a pit popsie the first time I saw her.
 

Jorda doesn't bother me at all. She's not even driving a car, had she been she wouldn't be 'taking someone's spot, and we all know what the story is there. So what's the great controversy? That she shows up at the races?

 

The problem is that if girls are even thinking of becoming F1 drivers, who are their role models? De Villota, who, let's not mince words, was hopeless, and only in a car because her father was a driver (in the loosest sense); Wolff, who makes de Villota look like Ascari; and Jorda, who couldn't drive a soapy stick up a dog's arse.

 

So girls may think that women are just not good enough for F1.  And sponsors may look at backing someone in F3 for about four seconds before thinking "if she's going to be like Jorda then we're wasting our time".

 

Nobody will take women drivers seriously if the only women in F1 are fluff.  It needs a de Silvestro to come over and at least get the odd point to shift thinking.  So that instead of being women drivers, they are drivers.



#14 Tourgott

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:50

Just because she's hot.

Seriously. Could she be worse than Maldonado?



#15 JHSingo

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:55

Seriously. Could she be worse than Maldonado?

 

Yes.

 

For all the stick Maldonado gets (and quite rightly, some times) at least he's actually done something, like winning the GP2 championship.

 

The role of Jorda at Lotus is exactly the same as her driving abilities...not much worth talking about.



#16 Fastcake

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:59


And for the eye candy. I thought she was a pit popsie the first time I saw her.


The problem is that if girls are even thinking of becoming F1 drivers, who are their role models? De Villota, who, let's not mince words, was hopeless, and only in a car because her father was a driver (in the loosest sense); Wolff, who makes de Villota look like Ascari; and Jorda, who couldn't drive a soapy stick up a dog's arse.

So girls may think that women are just not good enough for F1. And sponsors may look at backing someone in F3 for about four seconds before thinking "if she's going to be like Jorda then we're wasting our time".

Nobody will take women drivers seriously if the only women in F1 are fluff. It needs a de Silvestro to come over and at least get the odd point to shift thinking. So that instead of being women drivers, they are drivers.


De Silvestro did come over, but F1 in its infinite wisdom decided to throw her back again...

#17 RedBaron

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 13:11

These teams are using women for marketing purposes as well all know, neither Williams or Lotus will ever let either of those drivers line up on the grid in one of their cars. We saw that when Bottas was questionable at the start of the year.

 

However...

 

It's surely better to have a female presence in the paddock and in the garages as drivers of some sort. The only thing worse is having garages, the paddock and track full of only male drivers. How can that possibly help get the younger female generation interested?

 

Not every casual/new fan will understand the marketing ploy. Young girls could see Wolff step out the car or hear Jorda being interviewed as development driver and be inspired and excited that women are also part of that world. Eventually the pool of female talent could grow enough that someone who does match the talent of the male drivers is spotted.

 

No doubt there are women out there who are as fast as the best male drivers. For all we know one of them could be holding up a drivers number on the grid.



#18 superden

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 13:15

Jorda is just there for her looks really, and can you blame them. :clap:


Yep. That really helps.

#19 Imateria

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 14:02

I'm more surprised that Mouton name dropped Tatiana Calderon, she's not much better than Jorda to be honest.



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#20 aguri

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 14:09

In the context of the Lotus gig, Carmon Jorda is not a driver, she is a model.



#21 MattK9

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 14:20

The only female driver I've been impressed by recently is Sophia Floersch.

One to watch. She is only in the Ginetta Juniors on the BTCC package but she is fast and very agressive.



#22 FerrariV12

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 14:23

I'm more surprised that Mouton name dropped Tatiana Calderon, she's not much better than Jorda to be honest.

 

She did run well on 2 or 3 occasions last year to be fair. Although seems to have if anything gone backwards this year with the larger field, despite being the same age and level of F3 experience as "veteran" Giovanazzi, who wins races. But the fact she qualifies ahead of other people puts her on another plane to Jorda, to be honest.



#23 Force Ten

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 14:36

These teams are using women for marketing purposes as well all know, neither Williams or Lotus will ever let either of those drivers line up on the grid in one of their cars. We saw that when Bottas was questionable at the start of the year.

 

However...

 

It's surely better to have a female presence in the paddock and in the garages as drivers of some sort. The only thing worse is having garages, the paddock and track full of only male drivers. How can that possibly help get the younger female generation interested?

 

Not every casual/new fan will understand the marketing ploy. Young girls could see Wolff step out the car or hear Jorda being interviewed as development driver and be inspired and excited that women are also part of that world. Eventually the pool of female talent could grow enough that someone who does match the talent of the male drivers is spotted.

 

No doubt there are women out there who are as fast as the best male drivers. For all we know one of them could be holding up a drivers number on the grid.

No doubt? Out where? As fast as the BEST male drivers, you mean Schumacher 2000, Alonso and Hamilton? Why aren't they hired then? I'd hire her in a heartbeat if she was as fast as Hamilton. Hell, I'd replace Britney with her, nevermind your usual Verstappens.

 

...then again maybe you meant No Doubt the band. That has indeed a female lead singer. Otherwise, I'd say there is doubt.



#24 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 14:53

There's no reason to believe there can't be a female Schumacher/Hamilton/Alonso. There is just an insanely small amount of female drivers even attempting it. At least that's how I read it, not that one of the female racers we already have/had could do the same results.



#25 BRG

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:01

Mouton certainly was not an amazing driver, and did not have a staggering record when she signed for Audi, but she did was make the most of it.

 

I largely agree with your OP, but you do Mouton a disservice here. She had a pretty good pre-Audi record, driving Alpine-Renaults and then works Fiats before signing for Audi. She had won rallies and was 2nd in the 1979 French Rally Championship.  Certainly a good enough record to get a WRC seat in those days. Though being female also had an influence.



#26 Force Ten

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:11

There's no reason to believe there can't be a female Schumacher/Hamilton/Alonso. There is just an insanely small amount of female drivers even attempting it. At least that's how I read it, not that one of the female racers we already have/had could do the same results.

In theory, sure there can. In theory there can also be much better male drivers than S/H/A. For some sort of reason they hide themselves well.

 

On a tangent. Is there actually ANY form of competitive sport on the planet where male and female sexes aren't segregated and females beat males on the highest level as likely as males beat females? There's the thing where they jump across various obstacles on their horses on the Olympics, anything else?



#27 SophieB

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:39

Can we could get back to discussing Mouton's comments about Jorda and her response more directly, please.

#28 Kalmake

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:42

Mutton: "...or even Beitske Visser, who is performing well in the Formula Renault 3.5 series."

 

I was intrigued so I had to check. Nope. Finished last season 21st and is currently 19th. The series has 20 seats.


Edited by Kalmake, 29 July 2015 - 15:47.


#29 Prost1997T

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:48

I was intrigued so I had the check. Nope. Finished last season 21st and is currently 19th. The series has 20 drivers.


She had a good run at Jerez, but her problem is she was rushed up to that series due to commercial pressures. She'd won races in what is now ADAC F4, and had shown good speed in FR2.0 testing. Unfortunately she wasn't able to take the logical route.

Edited by Prost1997T, 29 July 2015 - 15:49.


#30 chunder27

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:52

Michele basically said she was not really interested in Jorda's career!

 

And the response was pretty much a PR written invite to come and see what she does with Renault, and then also some comments that she does not know much about rallying and that F1 is very different etc. Rather ill conceived at best.

 

Regarding Moutons Audi career.

 

Agreed Michele was a decent driver before then, but not someone who sprung out at you in those days, like a Toivonen or Vatanen.

 

So many good, young drivers in the early 80's, Wilson, Toivonen, if they wanted  a tar man to go with Stig and Hannu the decision is perhaps clearer as Michelle was a good tar driver. I guess you could throw in guys like Andruet, Vudafieri, Saby, all good and proven tar men.

 

But as I say this is a minor criticism, the decision piad off utterly, and Mouton is a once in a million driver who still to this day does not get the credit she deserved.



#31 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:55

On a tangent. Is there actually ANY form of competitive sport on the planet where male and female sexes aren't segregated and females beat males on the highest level as likely as males beat females? There's the thing where they jump across various obstacles on their horses on the Olympics, anything else?

Drag racing has had a lot of successful women drivers for years now.

Personally the best woman road racer I've seen has been out for decades now, Lyn St. James did pretty darn good in the bad old days of IMSA racing. 2 wins at the Daytona 24, 1 at Sebring and an I500 rookie of the year award, and with not really any fantastic equipment.



#32 F1matt

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 15:58

I don't think anyone takes Lotus seriously anymore, even their twitter feed is based on taking the pi55. If the only way they can turn upto a GP and keep their staff in work is by having a country subsidize a racing drivers  hobby and a girl in tight shorts pretending to be a racing driver (paying for the privilege) its ok with me.



#33 Darren1

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 16:24

So Jorda is there for marketing reasons (Bringing in Money.....  Palmer would not be in that car were it not for money, Pastor would not be there were it not for his Sponsors, Roman = Total money, Suzie Wolf = Toto / Marketing........  Ok the others are doing a reasonable job, but is it her fault?  Is she meant to say no to the job?



#34 RedBaron

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 17:54

No doubt? Out where? As fast as the BEST male drivers, you mean Schumacher 2000, Alonso and Hamilton? Why aren't they hired then? I'd hire her in a heartbeat if she was as fast as Hamilton. Hell, I'd replace Britney with her, nevermind your usual Verstappens.
 
...then again maybe you meant No Doubt the band. That has indeed a female lead singer. Otherwise, I'd say there is doubt.

 
You've got a little excited Force Ten and you've completely misunderstood my point.
 
I'm not referring to any women currently competing in any category of racing. Hence my grid girl comment in the quote you singled out.

 

No doubt there are women out there who are as fast as the best male drivers. For all we know one of them could be holding up a drivers number on the grid.

 

I meant potentially out there in the world. If more women are drawn to motorsport the likelihood we'll find some with real potential and talent that matches the current top levels is much greater. Motorsport has failed to appeal to many women, which it must improve on. There's nothing to suggest with a more evenly split talent pool (gender wise) to chose from that women would be slower or less talented than men.



#35 JHSingo

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 18:08

The only female driver I've been impressed by recently is Sophia Floersch.

One to watch. She is only in the Ginetta Juniors on the BTCC package but she is fast and very agressive.

 

Unfortunately, it's now 'was'. Read recently that budget issues have curtailed her season, which is a shame.

 

But yeah, I agree with what others have said - in many ways the Wolff situation is not really much better. I'm still baffled as to what the whole point of that is. Clearly, at her age, she's not going to get a drive, and even without that it's very doubtful she's even good enough to deserve a drive.

 

Certainly, the British media seem to have done their bit to 'boost' her profile. I remember there was a documentary that aired on BBC a couple of years ago about her. She seems a nice person and has a nice family too...but let's not delude ourselves into thinking she's F1 calibre.



#36 johnmhinds

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 18:47

I don't think Susie Wolff has driven in any kind of race since 2012, and that was her driving in DTM because Toto bought her the seat.

It's a joke that she's allowed Williams test drives just because she has a rich husband who owns part of the team.

I don't think she even has a superlicence yet.

#37 anneomoly

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 19:25

No doubt? Out where? As fast as the BEST male drivers, you mean Schumacher 2000, Alonso and Hamilton? Why aren't they hired then? I'd hire her in a heartbeat if she was as fast as Hamilton. Hell, I'd replace Britney with her, nevermind your usual Verstappens.

 

...then again maybe you meant No Doubt the band. That has indeed a female lead singer. Otherwise, I'd say there is doubt.

 

All it takes is one parent to go "But you don't want to go karting like your brother do you? Because that's a boy thing."

 

And the female future equivalent of Ayrton Senna never gets into a kart. Because kids are massively influenced by their parents, and because I can't think of a single recent F1 driver who hasn't made it without their parents being behind them 100%, because you have to invest millions into your child, and nearly every weekend between the age of 6 and 16 into them. What parent who thinks in their heart of hearts that racing's a bloke's job is going to do that for a mere daughter? They're just not worth the time or financial investment.

 

Mutton: "...or even Beitske Visser, who is performing well in the Formula Renault 3.5 series."

 

I was intrigued so I had to check. Nope. Finished last season 21st and is currently 19th. The series has 20 seats.

 

The results are harsh on the talent that's there. Last season as others have said she was thrown in over her head but was driving better by the end of the season, and this year, well, the car's broken down a lot (including in qualy I think). She qualified second at Spa then had time dsq for technical infringement then her sponsers made her withdraw the rest of the weekend... her last race she managed a charge from 19th into the points so here's hoping some luck goes her way. Whether she's got the outright talent to make the use of it when it gets to her, who knows, but I'm not sure she's been given a fair crack yet.



#38 ANF

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 19:33

Jorda does nothing for feminism in sport, backs up all the usual stereotypes, including her is a retrograde step surely for females in sport.

I'm not really sure what you want Jordá to do. Cover her legs, try to look less attractive, and turn down the offer to be a development driver for an F1 team? I'm not even sure she's trying to be some kind of female motorsport role model. Perhaps she's only thinking about her own career, like most racing drivers do?



#39 F1Johnny

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 19:44

In theory, sure there can. In theory there can also be much better male drivers than S/H/A. For some sort of reason they hide themselves well.

 

On a tangent. Is there actually ANY form of competitive sport on the planet where male and female sexes aren't segregated and females beat males on the highest level as likely as males beat females? There's the thing where they jump across various obstacles on their horses on the Olympics, anything else?

 

Trap/Skeet shooting used to have women and men shoot together at the Olympics but then a woman won and they split the events.



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#40 anneomoly

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 19:46

I'm not really sure what you want Jordá to do. Cover her legs, try to look less attractive, and turn down the offer to be a development driver for an F1 team? I'm not even sure she's trying to be some kind of female motorsport role model. Perhaps she's only thinking about her own career, like most racing drivers do?

 

To play the devil's advocate, I think it's perfectly possible to not mind Jorda doing her own thing whilst simultaneously thinking she's not the best role model for women in racing.

 

Of course, the problem isn't Jorda. The problem is the lack of anyone else apart from Jorda. It's like looking at Maldonado and deciding that in general, men are just too aggressive and testosterone-y to harness the talent that's there. When your sample size is one, you can have some really weird conclusions that won't necessarily hold true across the board.



#41 chunder27

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 20:11

I think really the whole episode just shows how far behind the times motorsport at the top level is in comparison to some other sports.

 

In this age when people decry the BBC for not showing F1 races live or maybe even losing the contract, they show a heap of womens sport. I do not want to watch it, but at least it is there, it is being exposed.

 

Female tennis stars are equal monetarily to men these days, soccer in the USA is hugely popular with women, and burgeoning all over the world.

 

Yet what do we have at the pinnacle of motorsport. A bird who sells herself to the highest bidder for years and gets on magazine covers in the USA withotu really winning much, a woman who has lucked into a relationship with a very important man in F1, and another who is pretty, tried a car but was hopeless.

 

It isn't a pretty picture even on face value.

 

If I told you I frequently watch a formula in short oval racing where  women win just as much as men, in fact in the last few years have been dominant, it just shows it is possible.  But they do not like being singled out as these women have been, they see themselves as equals, and at its basest form, that is what we should aim for.



#42 SilverArrow31

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 20:34

Good, I criticise her all the time, she is doing nothing but prevent a decent female driver from coming through the ranks, of course its not her fault, I blame the teams, try actually going out and find a girl that has talent, all it takes is one, and this lady and Mrs Wolff is certainly not the one. They are never going to drive an F1 car during a race, the media can spin it all they want but the teams are not going to let them race because they are rubbish, so lets get a decent female driver that the teams will take seriously. Also the camera's are beginning to annoy me with this girl, a Mercedes went in for an important pit stop in Hungary and it cut to this woman, yeah we all know what you are doing :love: but what is happening in the race!!!!!!



#43 Fisico54

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 00:24

I think really the whole episode just shows how far behind the times motorsport at the top level is in comparison to some other sports.

In this age when people decry the BBC for not showing F1 races live or maybe even losing the contract, they show a heap of womens sport. I do not want to watch it, but at least it is there, it is being exposed.

Female tennis stars are equal monetarily to men these days, soccer in the USA is hugely popular with women, and burgeoning all over the world.

Yet what do we have at the pinnacle of motorsport. A bird who sells herself to the highest bidder for years and gets on magazine covers in the USA withotu really winning much, a woman who has lucked into a relationship with a very important man in F1, and another who is pretty, tried a car but was hopeless.

It isn't a pretty picture even on face value.

If I told you I frequently watch a formula in short oval racing where women win just as much as men, in fact in the last few years have been dominant, it just shows it is possible. But they do not like being singled out as these women have been, they see themselves as equals, and at its basest form, that is what we should aim for.

No different to nearly every other sport, womens football is terrible and ignored everywhere, the most clicked female golfer is a college student etc. Perhaps the only sports where the sexes are even close is tennis and athletics

#44 AlexS

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 00:45

 
I meant potentially out there in the world. If more women are drawn to motorsport the likelihood we'll find some with real potential and talent that matches the current top levels is much greater. Motorsport has failed to appeal to many women, which it must improve on. There's nothing to suggest with a more evenly split talent pool (gender wise) to chose from that women would be slower or less talented than men.

Actually there is. Research made suggest that men have better spatial awareness than women and also that man have a much more spread of capabilities and incapabilities than women: you find much more genius and impairments/limitations in men than in women.

How many women are top chess players?

 

Also the fact that very few rose to being competitive where in recent times something like that would have been a giant PR coup should makes us think.

 

Of course if we talk about F1 where the sample might be 3 or 4 persons it is possible there are some women in world at level or even superior to current crop , but also like someone said there is also more than billion of men that have had not a chance to try be a professional driver. 

 

Edit: I look at Jorda and others as placeholders to make the subject not go a way or to be an incentive for girls to try.  A sort of "there is no such thing as bad publicity."


Edited by AlexS, 30 July 2015 - 01:11.


#45 chunder27

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 06:37

Womens football is not terrible! Jeez how cqn you say that! Agreed it is not as good as mens, but its not bad!

My point is that in some arenas, women are equals to men, I gave seen it countless times in youth sport.

But, obviously as they get older their priorities change, mens do not so much.

Do role models need to be actively involved? I think so, women like Danica will have inspired girls to compete Im sure, but far more boys would have been inspired by Jimmie Johnson.

THAT is why the sadly token female racers should at least be decent and competitive, not just there to get a FOM camera in their pit.

#46 LookButDontStare

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 07:36

Jorda is just there for her looks really, and can you blame them. :clap:

 

XPB_724891_1200px-copie.jpg

I might have to sign her as my 5 series development driver :p  :p  :p  :p  :p



#47 Juan Kerr

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 08:14

The thing that gets me is why do people want to compare men to women in the first place? We are completely different and have different interests and needs to exist. We both have a competitive nature so it is only natural to try to compete slightly but other than that it's a waste of time. Evolution put us in different places mentally and physically.

#48 Nonesuch

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 08:39

Jorda does nothing for feminism in sport, backs up all the usual stereotypes, including her is a retrograde step surely for females in sport.

 

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that Jorda is going to be mixing it up with the likes of Vettel and Alonso or Hamilton and Rosberg - least of all herself.

 

She's a reasonable race driver who just got the opportunity of a lifetime because of her PR-potential. Guess what? It's been done hundreds of times before across motorsport. Telefonica wants a Spanish driver? Fine! Petrobras wants a Brazilian driver? Fine! Marlboro wants the biggest star on the grid? Why the heck not! Is it possible her physical appearance, which some find attractive, played a role in her signing? Sure it is. But let's not be sanctimonious. This is a sport whose organisers have no issue infusing the broadcasts with awkwardly lingering shots of nondescript girlfriends du jour.

 

As for Mouton; Jorda doesn't represent all women any more than Maldonado represents all men. I'm not sure what business it is of Mouton to single Jorda out for criticism. She could have easily declined to comment or put a positive spin on it by saying she hopes more women will be in F1 in the future. Besides, the - all female - drivers she lists supposedly 'have what it takes to make it to F1'. Yet none of them have - and Jorda has. :lol:

 

I don't think she even has a superlicence yet.

 

Susie Stoddart-Wolff does indeed not have a superlicense.

 

 

How many women are top chess players?

 

This reminds me of the Dutch chess grandmaster Jan Hein Donner who was widely criticised for saying that 'women cannot play chess'. Someone, I forget who, wrote a letter challenging his claim and stating it was a small wonder he didn't also include Africans. To which Donner replied the woman didn't understand his statement, saying Africans can play chess just fine - it's their wives who can't. One can predict the responses that followed. :stoned:


Edited by Nonesuch, 30 July 2015 - 08:46.


#49 taran

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 08:49

I'm not really sure what you want Jordá to do. Cover her legs, try to look less attractive, and turn down the offer to be a development driver for an F1 team? I'm not even sure she's trying to be some kind of female motorsport role model. Perhaps she's only thinking about her own career, like most racing drivers do?

 

Assuming her sponsors are paying for her gig at Lotus (and assuming they would also have paid for a racing season instead), then I do think you can "blame" Jorda.

Instead of going racing and actually getting some results, she preferred to be a joke in the paddock and maybe do a "development test" during a film day for Lotus. A film day :eek: . You get non-racing tyres and drive a car around. You don't learn anything beyond how to operate the car, not how to set it up for lap times or how to drive it at racing speeds.

 

How is that supposed to further her career? Nobody is going to give her a drive based on hanging around the lotus pit.

 

If she was serious about her career, learning to drive (maybe at Skip Barber....or ecole Winfield) and then do justice to a GP3 car would help far more. If Wolff can't get a drive (yes, she lacks pedigree but at least she has shown she can drive the Williams without embarrassing herself), then how is this 'development driver' gig going to get her in a car without any actual racing results?



#50 milestone 11

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 10:18

 Perhaps the only sports where the sexes are even close is tennis...

Goodness me! You clearly watch a lot of tennis.