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#1 Dunc

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 19:50

Today is Alonso's 34th birthday and over on the Alonso vs Button thred there are posts about him being able to carry on in F1 like it would be some sort of massive achievement.  Similarly a lot of posters on here at the end of last season seemed to favour KMag over Button on the basis that Button was too old to still be in F1. 

 

Whey do some people seem to think a driver in his 30s is too old for F1?  If you look at the WDCs of the 80s and 90s only four drivers won WDCs in their 20s - Piquet, Senna, Schumi and Jaques - with only Schumi doing it more than once.  Even then, Schumi had his greatest period of success when he was in his 30s.  Back then the sport was a lot more physical (manual clutch, no neck protectors) and we knew less about training and nutrition, meaning it should have been harder for these guys to have careers of the length they did.  If anything, F1 drivers should be in the sport longer than the drivers of 20-30 years ago as a result of what we know now about keeping body and mind in good shape.


Edited by Dunc, 29 July 2015 - 20:52.


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#2 garoidb

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 19:53

I'll just copy over my post about Alonso from the Alonso-Button thread.
 

I see what you mean. I suspect he has more than 3 or 4 years left, possibly anything up to a decade. Michael Schumacher finally retired at 43 having missed three seasons, and was on the pace for pole at Monaco at 43. Drivers often retire when they come to believe that they won't win anything further, or when the teams believe that a young prospect will be a better long term punt.

 

Consider - what are the chances a young prospect will deliver more over the next two seasons than a Mark Webber or a Felipe Massa? There is a reasonable possibility - there is some scope at least. But what are the chances they will outdeliver a Fernando Alonso. Not too good, I would venture. Fernando can only be replaced by someone who is already proven to be top tier (i.e. only two other drivers IMO) whereas many others can be replaced by unproven prospects as a punt, in the hope of discovering the next ... Fernando Alonso (or Lewis or Seb).

 

Why am I saying all this -  because the rationale I have given above is why many good (but not great) drivers leave F1 in their mid-30s. There is no great performance drop off, it is simply a case of reaching a plateau that is not quite the top level and therefore being vulnerable to the next hotshoe (who may not turn out to deliver that much either). Unless Fernando's performances drop off, he is not in this category. There is no magical age at which an F1 driver loses it. 

 


#3 tifosii

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 20:02

feel the same,found strange that so many people say Alonso will retire in 2-3 years

in my opinon,he still have many years to go

and if he is not interested in F1 more,maybe he will quit F1,but age is not the main problem


Edited by tifosii, 29 July 2015 - 20:02.


#4 Victor_RO

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 20:12

Drivers only have a limited capacity to stay in the same series. After all, it's a job they do and most of us don't survive too well doing the same job in the same environment for years and years and years, so this problem would start to creep in to the mind of a F1 driver too after a long career and a few frustrating years towards the present day. So I reckon that a F1 driver nowadays who's in his mid-30s and thinking of leaving F1 would just be looking for a change of environment. As someone said previously, middle age is not that much of a barrier any longer in top-level motorsport. Schuey topping quali in Monaco in 2013 aged 43 as mentioned above. Tom Kristensen won his last Le Mans victory in 2013 aged 46. The issue is that motorsport careers start earlier and earlier and earlier. Drivers in their early 30s are now at the same stage in their careers (in terms of races entered) as a 40-year-old about 15-20 years ago.



#5 redraven9

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 20:14

I think age is a bit overrated in F1. Mansell won his championship when he was around 39. If anything, I'd prefer drivers to have more longevity. Nothing personal against youngsters like Max, but there is a certain charm in a grid full of older players.



#6 Watkins74

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 20:23

People on this forum tend to say "so and so drove to 38 so why can't driver X" ignoring the fact that aging does not occur on a similar level. Some people at 50 use a cane and some people run marathons. You can be an old or a young 35.

 

Compared to the days of unlimited testing todays drivers have it pretty easy. Plus traveling tends to be first class.


Edited by Watkins74, 29 July 2015 - 20:24.


#7 PlatenGlass

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 20:47

Why am I saying all this - because the rationale I have given above is why many good (but not great) drivers leave F1 in their mid-30s. There is no great performance drop off, it is simply a case of reaching a plateau that is not quite the top level and therefore being vulnerable to the next hotshoe (who may not turn out to deliver that much either).

I think there's some truth in this. And I think Barrichello is a perfect example. He ended his career beating both Hulkenberg and Maldonado, but then couldn't get another drive. He wasn't too old to be competitive in F1 any more, but too old for a team to consider him to be a worthwhile long-term prospect. Some drivers do seem quite poor towards the end of their careers though, which could be due to age, motivation, failure to adapt to new cars etc. But as said in this thread, people age differently.

F1 isn't a sport that requires fitness to the same degree as some other sports. For example, track athletics is basically zero skill and all physical ability, whereas in F1 as long as you're fit enough to drive the car, it's mainly down to skill. Skill can obviously fade with age as well, but probably not as much as raw physical power/strength.

Also, the OP mentioned that in the 80s/90s relatively few drivers won championships in their 20s. But when it comes to getting into F1 and a competitive car, it comes down to opportunity as much as being good enough. You might already be the best driver in the world at 15 (I mean, it's unlikely but go with it), but you've still got to work your way through the junior ranks, get into F1 and then get a drive in a top car. And that generally takes years. Not everyone gets the same chances as Max Verstappen. So it's actually very difficult to know how young a driver could be a top F1 driver.

#8 Risil

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 20:48

I think age is a bit overrated in F1. Mansell won his championship when he was around 39. If anything, I'd prefer drivers to have more longevity. Nothing personal against youngsters like Max, but there is a certain charm in a grid full of older players.

 

I think the charm is in the variety. Look how much Indycar craves the antics of Newgarden, Munoz and Karam. Okay, mostly Karam.

 

But there's only 20 seats, and not enough money to fill them with the best drivers, and the ones who can do it tend to stick around. The solution? Load up on caffeine pills and watch LMP2s, probably.



#9 043Max

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 21:05

Lately I am thinking more and more often Massa is getting to old....... could be the last couple of races, could also be unrelated to his age, but by feeling. More like ......Massa. Old. [*].



#10 Juan Kerr

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 21:44

Michael Schumacher was still super-fit when he was 43 and was actually starting to regularly get ahead of Rosberg at the end of the 3 year Mercedes stint. He was also quoted as saying the cars are easy to drive. The only reason he didn't win was probably down to the car and a little bit of rustiness on the technical side. Almost certainly not his age. You've got Verstappen 17 and Schumacher 43 driving in the modern era, in my opinion age does matter but nowhere near as narrow a window as people tend to perceive.



#11 BillBald

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 21:54



Lately I am thinking more and more often Massa is getting to old....... could be the last couple of races, could also be unrelated to his age, but by feeling. More like ......Massa. Old. [*].

 

Massa has underperformed since 2010.

 

If anything, he's now driving better than he did during those Ferrari years, so I can't see how his age can be relevant.



#12 thegamer23

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 21:58

If raw talent, skills and fitness are there, i think that a F1 Racing driver can compete without problems till 40+ years. 

But either you are an estabilished champion (like Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen could be) or you'll never get the change to reach that age, still racing in F1. 

 


Edited by thegamer23, 29 July 2015 - 22:00.


#13 Callisto

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 22:37

People on this forum tend to say "so and so drove to 38 so why can't driver X" ignoring the fact that aging does not occur on a similar level. Some people at 50 use a cane and some people run marathons. You can be an old or a young 35.

Compared to the days of unlimited testing todays drivers have it pretty easy. Plus traveling tends to be first class.


People run marathons because they are fit and healthy,and people use canes because they have health problems.its not really about age but health\fitness

#14 Watkins74

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 23:23

People run marathons because they are fit and healthy,and people use canes because they have health problems.its not really about age but health\fitness

 

Exactly and race drivers who have been found passed out drunk on the floor of a hotel don't age at the same rate as drivers who take better care of themselves.



#15 Callisto

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 23:35

Exactly and race drivers who have been found passed out drunk on the floor of a hotel don't age at the same rate as drivers who take better care of themselves.


Really?..You have absolutely no evidence to back up that claim.It is impossible for you to know what rate the person is aging at

Edited by Callisto, 29 July 2015 - 23:40.


#16 kvyatfan

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 23:56

Pretty simple. Reaction time vs. intelligence. The young guys have the reaction time, essentially things will seem slower to them. But an older guy can compensate with his superior knowledge and experience.

 

I would have to say that Alonso is a very intelligent driver, so age should not affect him as much as a driver like Hamilton who relies more on his talent/reactions. A balance of talent/reaction time/skill will peak in the 28-31 age bracket for purely physical sports, but the most intelligent can really delay this peak, or keep it from falling off quickly.

 

Alonso is the right driver for mature wins, and it doesn't hurt that he is the best driver by a fair margin. He can win again even in a close car, but has to figure this out within 2-3 years I think.



#17 HP

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 23:57

Ever had a spinal cord inflamation, and all not being painful is floating in water, but besides that every step hurt? Can happen regardless of age, sometimes even traceable to vacciantion. Point is, it's never that simple. Even genetics play a role.



#18 HP

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 00:01

Pretty simple. Reaction time vs. intelligence. The young guys have the reaction time, essentially things will seem slower to them. But an older guy can compensate with his superior knowledge and experience.

 

I would have to say that Alonso is a very intelligent driver, so age should not affect him as much as a driver like Hamilton who relies more on his talent/reactions. A balance of talent/reaction time/skill will peak in the 28-31 age bracket for purely physical sports, but the most intelligent can really delay this peak, or keep it from falling off quickly.

 

Alonso is the right driver for mature wins, and it doesn't hurt that he is the best driver by a fair margin. He can win again even in a close car, but has to figure this out within 2-3 years I think.

Well then I should be multiple WDC by now. I'm intelligent and I still outdo younger people in their teens with my reaction time. So where do I apply for a seat?

 

;)



#19 kvyatfan

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 00:39

If only it were that easy. I just mean relatively. Mixed Martial Arts is a good example as it requires arguably the greatest balance of reflexes, conditioning, skill, strength, and intelligent strategy. Fighters like Anderson Silva, Chuck Liddel, and Fedor Emelianenko proved that skill and intelligence can overcome superior reflexes and conditioning.



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#20 CHIUNDA

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 02:15

Pretty simple. Reaction time vs. intelligence. The young guys have the reaction time, essentially things will seem slower to them. But an older guy can compensate with his superior knowledge and experience.
 
I would have to say that Alonso is a very intelligent driver, so age should not affect him as much as a driver like Hamilton who relies more on his talent/reactions. A balance of talent/reaction time/skill will peak in the 28-31 age bracket for purely physical sports, but the most intelligent can really delay this peak, or keep it from falling off quickly.
 
Alonso is the right driver for mature wins, and it doesn't hurt that he is the best driver by a fair margin. He can win again even in a close car, but has to figure this out within 2-3 years I think.



Just for my education please list for me who are the top four most talented drivers in the last say 30 years and who are the top 4 most intelligent drivers in the same period.

#21 63Corvette

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 02:22

I have had a valid Competition license (FIA, IMSA, SCCA, HMSA, SVRA, AAMRR, WERA etc) continuoulsy, since December 1971.

I ain't fast, but I'm still competitive!


Edited by 63Corvette, 30 July 2015 - 02:22.


#22 Atreiu

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 02:40

If anything, it's much easier to remain racing beyond the 30 somethings nowadays. Teams risk little to nothing on rookies and youngsters.



#23 ViMaMo

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:15

Is being fast and consistent on race day all about reflexes?

Or better ..... does winning a race depend largely on reflexes? 



#24 Tourgott

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:53

The same happens to football. A few years ago 30 - 33 was the best age for a player. Today some even retire before 30, which is stupid.

I think it has more to do with lifestyle than with fitness. They make so much money today and rather enjoy life than spending too much time to their sport.


Edited by Tourgott, 30 July 2015 - 03:53.


#25 Felix

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 04:42

Covered here 

 

http://www.autosport...icle.php/id/540

 

and here

 

http://plus.autospor...1293.1414093472



#26 taran

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 09:02

I think motivation plays a very important role. Older drivers who are still succesful are drivers who still have something to prove (like Mansell finally winning a title), succesful drivers who can still get a competitive car or drivers who simply love driving. Villeneuve is a good example of a successful driver who quit after he couldn't get a decent drive anymore while Alboreto is a good example of a driver who continued down the grid, simply because he loved F1.

 

For many older drivers, the hassle of F1 starts to weigh heavier. As long as they still have a good car, they will cope but as soon as there is no sporting success to off set the hassle of F1, they lose motivation and eventually quit.



#27 Adelaide

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 09:52

Maybe there is something to be said for the mental edge and naivety of youth. I know as someone who started riding horses in my teens that until my mid twenties I did some pretty stupid things and somehow managed to come away unscathed and more than happy to hop aboard again. In my early thirties I had a pretty innocuous fall that led to a nasty disc injury in my back that took a couple of years to properly recover from.

Suddenly I didn't seem so immortal.. I also now had a mortgage to pay and the consequences weighed on my mind when I started riding again.

There might be a slight edge that comes off older drivers that's as much psychological as physical.

#28 Dan333SP

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 14:17

Paul Newman finished 3rd overall and 1st in class at the 24 hours of Daytona in '95 at the ripe age of 70. I can't find any lap charts, but I'd imagine he wasn't that far off the pace of his hotshoe teammates like Tommy Kendall who was in his 20s at the time. 

 

I was watching old IndyCar races from 1993 recently and thinking about this very subject. Emmo and Mario (late 40s for Fittipaldi, 50s for Mario) were both racing along with a 40 year old Mansell, and they were 3 of the fastest guys on a very deep grid full of young talent.



#29 Dunc

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 14:34

I think motivation plays a very important role. Older drivers who are still succesful are drivers who still have something to prove (like Mansell finally winning a title), succesful drivers who can still get a competitive car or drivers who simply love driving. Villeneuve is a good example of a successful driver who quit after he couldn't get a decent drive anymore while Alboreto is a good example of a driver who continued down the grid, simply because he loved F1.

 

For many older drivers, the hassle of F1 starts to weigh heavier. As long as they still have a good car, they will cope but as soon as there is no sporting success to off set the hassle of F1, they lose motivation and eventually quit.

 

That's definitely a good point.  For example, Pedro de la Rossa was unlikely to ever be WDC but he came back in 2010 simply because he wanted to race in F1 again, so he clearly had motivation.  If you're motivated your age isn't really an issue as long as you can physically cope with F1.



#30 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 15:48

I think what happens to racing drivers is they get 'tired' mentally. It's not the age but the mileage. And in current F1 they can probably go longer because there is barely any testing, the races aren't run at an insane pace, etc etc.



#31 rsherb

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 18:00

For most current generation drivers, it's going to be a mental issue rather than physical fitness. There are other issues at play that could affect them physically, such as injuries, but for the most part they are all superbly fit (or at least fit enough) to carry on past the time they do actually stop driving. Many 'ageing' top drivers still test well enough for physical reaction times, and current F1 isn't that physically demanding (for someone training appropriately). The mental issue could be a knock in self belief with the realization they will just never quite be at the ultimate top level consitently, even if many outsiders saw or believed it way sooner! It could be that they find themselves thinking about risk, preventing them finding the last 10th or two on a consitent basis. Maybe they just can't get or stay in the 'zone' or 'rhythm' as they used to. Maybe it's just not as exciting or rewarding and they struggle to motivate themselves. It usually happens quite quickly, and they don't tend to hang around for much longer, either through their own choice or lack of a drive.

 

If we're talking about the McLaren drivers specifically (as their age does get brought up as an issue, and they have two younger drivers waiting their turn), I think it's clear that age is not yet detrimental to either and probably wouldn't be until mentally it's their time. At the moment experience is an advantage for McLaren/Honda's current stage of development. Jenson is obviously a lot more vulnerable from a negative team decsion to continue much beyond this or next year, but it's not yet because he's loosing speed due to age, but maybe a fundamental deficit to Fernando means the team have reason to look for a potential Alonso level driver of the long term future. So not necessarily Jenson's age or the effects of his age, but rather they know he's not going to get better and if it looks like he's not going to consistently match or beat Fernado, even if he drove at the same level for another 5 years, it would be time to change to hopefully find the next star. I think Jenson saw off Kevin by enough, and is showing well enough at the moment versus Fernando, to actually have had a little mental boost and feel justified in his self belief despite the team's drawn-out decision to retain him, but he needs to maintain that relative performance as the car improves. If Fernando starts to have a lot more better days the mental drop-off could creep up on Jenson. He's already had a little look beyond F1 and at least had to come to terms with retirement from F1, while he waited for McLaren to make their driver decision for this season.


Edited by rsherb, 30 July 2015 - 20:06.


#32 Dan333SP

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 20:05

This is really only slightly related, but I hope Jenson tries to qualify for the GB triathlon national team once he gets the boot from Mclaren. Most people know he's an avid triathlete and compares favorably with professionals in normal performance metrics like Vo2 max and the like. If he could focus his training, I think he'd have a shot at being an Olympian as triathletes are generally older than other endurance athletes.

 

I race bicycles, and I had a chance to ride with Jenson in a gran fondo in Miami a few years ago (it was shortly after his win in Canada in '11). I got to ride alongside him and talk about that race, and then when some fast guys attacked on the front of the ride he accelerated and left 98% of the group in his dust without even looking like he was trying. The guy is a natural.

 

Here's an article relevant to what I'm talking about-

 

http://edition.cnn.c...hlon-brownlees/

 

Basically, he's top-flight amateur but would have to adopt full-fledged Olympian training to beat these guys. I think he could, though, and it'd be fun to watch him try.


Edited by Dan333SP, 30 July 2015 - 20:08.


#33 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 20:31

In fairness, hes basically a professional triathlete in all but name, no? In that he spends most of his time training(when he's not racing cars) so if he just signed up for more events...



#34 BRG

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 22:03

I think what happens to racing drivers is they get 'tired' mentally. It's not the age but the mileage. And in current F1 they can probably go longer because there is barely any testing, the races aren't run at an insane pace, etc etc.

While that sounds plausible, what about NASCAR drivers, who race far more often with plenty of travel between venues, long races requiring intense concentration when in a pack of 40 stock cars door to door and bumper to bumper at high speeds, and yet they often have careers running for several decades?



#35 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 22:36

I don't think they actually require that much intensity. It's grueling, but it's not stressful, if that makes sense? F1, for a time, was absolutely insane. You pace yourself much more in oval racing, the cars aren't that physical to drive(but very hot), etc.

 

Although it seemed to me like when Mark Martin 'retired' in the mid 00s and went to a partial schedule, his performance picked up a bit. But NASCAR is a bit weird about drivers suddenly having great seasons or absolute slumps, with no other factors changing.

 

The contradiction to that, was it seemed like there was a trend of the guy who finished a close second in the championship would have a shocker the following year. Like they'd either run themselves to the edge or the loss was too big a shock.


Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 30 July 2015 - 22:37.


#36 anneomoly

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 22:58

The same happens to football. A few years ago 30 - 33 was the best age for a player. Today some even retire before 30, which is stupid.

I think it has more to do with lifestyle than with fitness. They make so much money today and rather enjoy life than spending too much time to their sport.

 

 

Which is similar to F1 driver preparation - if you've been trained as a professional since you were 7 years old with nutrition and exercise and psychologists and media training you're more likely to be ready in your teens than, say, Damon Hill, who started driving four wheels when he hopped into a Formula Ford. Better sports science, better preparation, earlier onset of 'serious' training means that players/drivers reach their physical and mental peak earlier, and the experience gains that an older driver has gained means less and less. (Also with footballers - injuries. As well as the obvious willpower for the successful ones.)



#37 Joe Bosworth

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 12:22

Ross

 

In post #35 above you state, "I don't think they actually require that much intensity. It's grueling, but it's not stressful, if that makes sense?"

 

Unfortunately that does not make sense to me and perhaps a different explanation would make more sense.  Let me explain where I am coming from.

 

I have been quite diverse in my sporting endeavours.  I can directly compare my physical aand mental efforts at swimming (club level0, basketball (team captain level), tennis (club champion to state rankings), running, (top 10% in US for 10 km and ran 7 marathons), olympic distance triathlons to car racing (with lap records and championship contender in more classes than worth detailing up to F2).

 

I can honestly tell you that car racing can bring you to max heart rate and exhaution levels   None of the sports are as grueling as a well run marathon but any car race of a decent duration more than the 10 lap sprints can physically challenge your body and mind as much or more than all of the other sports mentioned.  To do any and all at a good level requires that concentration levels get you well zoned out and time in the zone is tiring all by itself.  But both a 30 minute 10 km run and a 30 minute car race can leave you laying on the ground in recovery mode for a few minutes.  I am hard pressed to estimate the relative contribution that the physical and mental parts cause in the exhastion.

 

I can discuss details of the differences between the sports listed above for those who might be interested but this is enough for now.  Also happy to give opinions on the efforts required for a fair range of different tracks in the US midwest and east through to several NSW Oz tracks.

 

Regards



#38 Ev0d3vil

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 12:38

Were the v10 cars harder to drive? In terms of the g forces they produce.



#39 Marklar

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 12:40

Were the v10 cars harder to drive? In terms of the g forces they produce.

In terms of g force yes. But in terms of driveability they were easier to drive.

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#40 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 13:12

Ross

 

In post #35 above you state, "I don't think they actually require that much intensity. It's grueling, but it's not stressful, if that makes sense?"

 

Unfortunately that does not make sense to me and perhaps a different explanation would make more sense.  Let me explain where I am coming from.

 

I have been quite diverse in my sporting endeavours.  I can directly compare my physical aand mental efforts at swimming (club level0, basketball (team captain level), tennis (club champion to state rankings), running, (top 10% in US for 10 km and ran 7 marathons), olympic distance triathlons to car racing (with lap records and championship contender in more classes than worth detailing up to F2).

 

I can honestly tell you that car racing can bring you to max heart rate and exhaution levels   None of the sports are as grueling as a well run marathon but any car race of a decent duration more than the 10 lap sprints can physically challenge your body and mind as much or more than all of the other sports mentioned.  To do any and all at a good level requires that concentration levels get you well zoned out and time in the zone is tiring all by itself.  But both a 30 minute 10 km run and a 30 minute car race can leave you laying on the ground in recovery mode for a few minutes.  I am hard pressed to estimate the relative contribution that the physical and mental parts cause in the exhastion.

 

I can discuss details of the differences between the sports listed above for those who might be interested but this is enough for now.  Also happy to give opinions on the efforts required for a fair range of different tracks in the US midwest and east through to several NSW Oz tracks.

 

Regards

 

I'm talking particularly about NASCAR, which is more 'conditioning' to he heat than outright exertion. You can do pretty well in NASCAR and not be 'that fit'. And I'm not making the error of assuming body fat % = fitness level.

 

I think the best anecodte for F1 burnout vs other series is look at the moods. Everyone in F1 is *miserable*. People in Indycar are much more relaxed. People always remark about how fun and easygoing the NASCAR paddock is.



#41 MattK9

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 14:15

Really?..You have absolutely no evidence to back up that claim.It is impossible for you to know what rate the person is aging at

 

cough cough, James Hunt , cough cough



#42 Callisto

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 19:13

cough cough, James Hunt , cough cough


Your point?

#43 lars75

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 11:43

I don't think is age that matters most, but it counts.

 

Raikkonen, Button, Alonso, Massa all started F1 '01 and '02 and they even competed in F1 against the dad of todays F1 youngest.

 

They all had their chances and three of them bacame WDC. So nothing wrong with that. But at this point Rosberg, Vettel, Hamilton, Ricciardo, Hulkenberg and Bottas are the new bunch that at the current moment are top level and in their prime. Although Button, Raikkonen and Button still could deliver a good pace have many years of experience, on the long term you can't build a team arround them anymore. So in this perspective they are to old. Next to this there are many talented drivers who deserve a chance in F1 just like they did and with them staying the young guys don't get the chance. 

 

Magnussen, Frijns, Vandoorne, Magnussen, Gasly, Lynn, de Vries, le Clerq, Albon, Ocon, Fuoco, Marciello, Rowland, Jafaar, Vaxiviere all stoud or will stand in line for F1 and are more then capable to be there. And we are only talking about four available seats held by four 'older' guys who had there shot.



#44 ardbeg

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 11:56

Capacity does not necessarily degrade as fast as hunger and courage. Hunger and courage becomes a very relevant factor when the difference between failure and success might be only 1/10 of a second over a lap.


Edited by ardbeg, 06 August 2015 - 11:57.


#45 AustinF1

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 12:28

Today is Alonso's 34th birthday and over on the Alonso vs Button thred there are posts about him being able to carry on in F1 like it would be some sort of massive achievement.  Similarly a lot of posters on here at the end of last season seemed to favour KMag over Button on the basis that Button was too old to still be in F1. 

 

Whey do some people seem to think a driver in his 30s is too old for F1?  If you look at the WDCs of the 80s and 90s only four drivers won WDCs in their 20s - Piquet, Senna, Schumi and Jaques - with only Schumi doing it more than once.  Even then, Schumi had his greatest period of success when he was in his 30s.  Back then the sport was a lot more physical (manual clutch, no neck protectors) and we knew less about training and nutrition, meaning it should have been harder for these guys to have careers of the length they did.  If anything, F1 drivers should be in the sport longer than the drivers of 20-30 years ago as a result of what we know now about keeping body and mind in good shape.

Yep. I expect Alonso to be around for several more years, esp if someone can get him a competitive car.



#46 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 12:35

We're replacing Button with Jazeman Jaafar? What?

#47 lars75

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 12:42

Yep. I expect Alonso to be around for several more years, esp if someone can get him a competitive car.

 

Well you can get that out of your mind I geuss. He wil never be in championship winning cars again. McLaren took him to develop the car together with Button, and where does that bring them? In my opinion Magnussen wouldn't do any worse at this point with this car. If the engine improves they will, if not then not.

 

I think 2016 will be Alonso's last year, after this he will seek his thrill elsewhere. And 2015 could be Buttons last year in F1 aswell. Nothing wrong with both of them, I rather see them stay then Massa. But to me if seen it all of the four oldies and want to see some fresh and hungry youngsters on the grid.



#48 lars75

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 12:45

We're replacing Button with Jazeman Jaafar? What?

 

Nope, but Massa would be perfectly replaced by Jafaar ;-)

 

Just mentioned a couple of youngsters doing relativaly well at this point, I hope Stoneman will fit in there as well, he deserves it and is very talented. But at some point I think he is like Roseqvist and Blomqvist. Always fast and top competitor, but never to really go that next step dispite there talent.



#49 AustinF1

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 14:28

Well you can get that out of your mind I geuss. He wil never be in championship winning cars again. 

 

Oh, ok. I guess he might as well just quit now then. :well:



#50 Ruusperi

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 14:44

Well, we might look at some of the ages of debutants in 1994.

Coulthard: 23

Frentzen: nearly 27

Taki Inoue: 30

Oliver Panis: 27

Miksa Salo: 27

Jos Verstappen: 22

 

It's quite clear that many drivers were still quite inexperienced even in their 30's. Nowadays drivers tend to have a long career in F1 already before their 30's like Hülkenberg (5 seasons, 27yo), Vettel (9 seasons, 28yo), Grosjean (5 seasons, 29yo). Not to mention Rosberg (10 season, 30yo).

 

I very much doubt Max Verstappen will be doing F1 for the next 23 years to turn 40 years old. If he will get a successful car it better happen in 5 to 7 years, otherwise interest of sponsors and teams will decline and his career is probably over. And if he achieve wins and championships in 2022, he will only be 25 years old by then. After successful years he probably will retire before turning 32-34.

 

Personally I'd like teams to hire successful drivers despite what their age might be. Andre Lotterer for example could have done well in F1. Also it seems to be increasingly rare to hire ex-f1-drivers, as if it was taboo to bring old drivers from "beyond the F1 grave". I'm certain that drivers like Trulli, Fisichella, Heidfeld or Barrichello could be -theoretically- as competitive as Montoya is today in Indycar.