Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet.
I just noticed this .... did LH bring out a safety car thus (inadvertently?) helping JB?
Posted 04 August 2015 - 14:52
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet.
I just noticed this .... did LH bring out a safety car thus (inadvertently?) helping JB?
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Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:02
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet.
Mentioned in post #11.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:07
WEre not team mates yet.....
I know, TR/RBR, but it's under the same umbrella/driver program so I consider it akin to teammates colliding. Probably got him in just as much trouble as if he'd taken out Bourdais from the same position.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:10
Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:13
I know, TR/RBR, but it's under the same umbrella/driver program so I consider it akin to teammates colliding. Probably got him in just as much trouble as if he'd taken out Bourdais from the same position.
Didn't Red Bull end up pointing the finger at Hamilton for that incident though
so he probably wasn't in that much trouble ;)
Edited by Exb, 04 August 2015 - 15:14.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:17
Didn't Red Bull end up pointing the finger at Hamilton for that incident though
so he probably wasn't in that much trouble ;)
The 'ole "boohoo he drove too slow behind the SC" complaint. I think you're right. Plus Vettel was their rising star, and obviously it paid off for them! Still, I was pretty pissed at the time because I was convinced Webber would retire without winning a race given his luck up to that point.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 15:30
The 'ole "boohoo he drove too slow behind the SC" complaint. I think you're right. Plus Vettel was their rising star, and obviously it paid off for them! Still, I was pretty pissed at the time because I was convinced Webber would retire without winning a race given his luck up to that point.
Actually, Vettel initally received a 10 place grid penalty after that crash. But after a fan video of the incident was published on Youtube, the penalty was taken back, because in this video it was clear to see that Hamilton indeed had to take a (big) part of the blame.
This is the fan video:
These are Webbers and Vettels cockpit views:
Blaming Vettel for this one is pretty stupid, imo.
Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 04 August 2015 - 15:32.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 16:03
Blaming Vettel for this one is pretty stupid, imo.
Why?
Posted 04 August 2015 - 16:36
Why?
You've seen the videos and still ask that question?
I think it's pretty clear to see in the 2nd one, Vettel had no time to react to Webber braking immediately. And Webber was braking hard just because of Hamilton doing some moves at the border of legality. There was a 5-car-lengths rule and in video 1 it doesn't look like there's only 5 car lengths between Hamilton and the safety car at the time of the collision.
Or let's put it simple, let's quote the main victim:
Webber: "He did a **** job really behind the safety car. During the drivers briefing before the race we even talked about such situations and Lewis promised he would keep the same speed at all time behind the safety car. But during the race he never did."
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Posted 04 August 2015 - 16:38
Andrea de Cesaris was generally oafish, clueless and outright dangerous for most of his Formula 1 career and it is an indictment of the laxity of discipline that he was allowed to get away with it for so long.
But the most oafish incident in his career - which, let's face it, is quite a difficult choice, he had to miss a race for McLaren because he had ruined so many chassis via his 17 crashes in 14 entries - was at the US Grand Prix 1989.
Alex Caffi was his team-mate in the Dallara and was on for a podium with a stellar drive, running second for a while, and came up to pass de Crasheris with 20 laps to go.
AdC claimed "I didn't see him" when he turned in and comprehensively took him out. Presumably the son of the Marlboro head in Italy also didn't see the blue flags or the waved blue flags.
"But ensign14," I hear you yell. "If de Cesaris was such a liability, how come Caffi was behind him?"
That's an easy one.
Caffi was lapping him.
I was standing at that corner when de Cesaris took out Caffi. Up to that point, the crowd was very excited and cheering Caffi on. It was pretty impressive for him to be running so well in the Dallara, and cheers went up each time he came by. Then came the loud bang and a flurry of insults at de Cesaris.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 19:28
Go to 57:00I was standing at that corner when de Cesaris took out Caffi. Up to that point, the crowd was very excited and cheering Caffi on. It was pretty impressive for him to be running so well in the Dallara, and cheers went up each time he came by. Then came the loud bang and a flurry of insults at de Cesaris.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 19:51
You've seen the videos and still ask that question?
I think it's pretty clear to see in the 2nd one, Vettel had no time to react to Webber braking immediately. And Webber was braking hard just because of Hamilton doing some moves at the border of legality. There was a 5-car-lengths rule and in video 1 it doesn't look like there's only 5 car lengths between Hamilton and the safety car at the time of the collision.
Or let's put it simple, let's quote the main victim:
Webber: "He did a **** job really behind the safety car. During the drivers briefing before the race we even talked about such situations and Lewis promised he would keep the same speed at all time behind the safety car. But during the race he never did."
Doesn't matter. They should have revoked Seb's super license permanently for that display. I think they should do it retroactively.
Ladies and Gentlemen, introducing Fernando Alonso, 5 x WDC, Jenson Button, 2 x WDC.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 20:12
Ferrari's top man Tony Brooks went into the final round of 1959 with a shot at the championship. This shot effectively ended when von Trips rammed him.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 21:07
I think if Vettel and Hamilton are taking blame for this, then Webber should take some too. Hamilton might have been pissing about but if he slowed down too much, Webber wasn't directly behind him so he didn't need to stop suddenly himself. Not overtaking the car in front is hardly as important as not having an accident. It wouldn't have mattered if he'd briefly passed Hamilton and then just let him back through. That said, there wouldn't have been much time to think, and he probably just thought "Mustn't pass Hamilton" but it's a driver's job to be aware.Actually, Vettel initally received a 10 place grid penalty after that crash. But after a fan video of the incident was published on Youtube, the penalty was taken back, because in this video it was clear to see that Hamilton indeed had to take a (big) part of the blame.
This is the fan video:
These are Webbers and Vettels cockpit views:
Blaming Vettel for this one is pretty stupid, imo.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 21:15
Made worse as Brooks shouldn't have been in the grid spot he started in! Harry Schell was credited with a short cut laptime.
Posted 04 August 2015 - 21:57
Nice remembering. Go to the start at 2:30.Back to de Cesaris, didn't he do a bizarre teammate wipe out job in Austria once? 1982?
Posted 04 August 2015 - 22:02
Posted 04 August 2015 - 22:11
Posted 05 August 2015 - 02:58
^They should have restarted the whole race.
Posted 05 August 2015 - 08:21
I suppose the Jordans at Monaco in 1966 don't really count.
Posted 05 August 2015 - 09:02
There was a 5-car-lengths rule and in video 1 it doesn't look like there's only 5 car lengths between Hamilton and the safety car at the time of the collision.
IIRC, that rule was only put into place afterwards, potentially as a reaction to that incident.
For what it's worth, it's a rule that is rarely enforced, and rather impossible to measure*. The feeling I had at the time (and still have) is that it's a tool that the stewards can use if they feel that a driver is taking the piss, rather than something that is strictly adhered to.
* A car length is hardly an SI unit of measurement now is it
Posted 05 August 2015 - 09:35
IIRC, that rule was only put into place afterwards, potentially as a reaction to that incident.
No, that rule existed. See http://www.rte.ie/sp...3416-hamiltonl/
The collision occurred on lap 45 when Webber almost overtook Hamilton before an unsighted Vettel hit him.F1 regulations state the leader must keep a within five metres of the safety car, while erratic driving can also be punished.Article 40.10 of the F1 Sporting Regulations reads: ‘The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him. Once behind the safety car, the race leader must keep within five car lengths of it.’It is thought Hamilton has already met a three-man panel of stewards at the Chinese Grand Prix in Shanghai.They are believed to be deliberating on what action to take over the incident.
I agree with the rest of your post, though.
Edited by TurnOffTheLights, 05 August 2015 - 09:38.
Posted 05 August 2015 - 09:41
Then why are the official units for the speed of light F1 car lengths per Silverstone lap time?* A car length is hardly an SI unit of measurement now is it
Posted 05 August 2015 - 10:00
Didn't start as a teammate collision, but sure did end as one:
Admittedly it doesn't quite qualify for "taking each other out", as it was on the final lap and Martini was able to limp to the flag despite his bent rear wheel.
Posted 05 August 2015 - 21:27
Rosberg's action last year was not the first time he made contact with a teammate at Spa - it also happened in 2010 with Michael Schumacher close to the same point of the track.
Posted 07 August 2015 - 11:58
hello ... the two renault in monaco 1984 at 4:40 min
Posted 07 August 2015 - 20:41
the BMWs in this year BTCC at Oulton park at the hairpin
Posted 03 April 2016 - 19:40
Guess we can add this one to this thread.
Ducati team mates take each other out when running 2nd and 3rd, on the last corner of the last lap!