77 replies to this topic

[CoolBreeze]

Massa/Kimi 2007 Brazil.

[JeePee]

Massa/Kimi 2007 Brazil.

That wasn't really Massa helping Kimi out, more so Ferrari.

 

Massa would have loved to be in front of Kimi after the stops so that he could show the world he let Kimi through on track. He pushed like hell and even went almost off the track in that fase.

[george1981]

What about the allegations that Coulthard and Hakkinen acted as rear gunners for Villeneuve at Jerez 1997. It is claimed that they were quicker than him but stayed behind to protect him from Eddie Irvine ramming him off the road in a do or die passing move. In return he let them passed on the last lap for a McLaren 1-2.

[Wuzak]

One small example, rather than the headline-making teamorders: Schumacher had a bad set of tyres at the Spanish Grand Prix in 2000, and as he fell back down the order he pushed his brother in the Williams right to the edge - giving teammate Barrichello a chance to pass them both.

 

 

I believe Schumacher had a puncture. That's why Barrichello and Ralf caught him. He had to pit at the end of the lap.

[Henri Greuter]

Arturo Merzario and Brett Lunger getting Niki Lauda out of a burning wreck and thereby saving his live.

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 07 August 2015 - 07:00.

[DampMongoose]

Hailwood going into the fire for Reggazoni.

 

Purley and Williamson.

 

Elford saving the chaps life after he went over the cliff in a rally. 

 

Elford trying to rescue the (already evacuated) driver in Bonnier's Le Mans crash.

 

Hunt and Peterson at Monza.

[Collombin]

If we are going down the saving lives route, Rex Mays famously stopped his car in front of driver Duke Dinsmore at Milwaukee in 1948 after Dinsmore had been thrown out onto the track, thereby saving him from being run over by other cars.

Sadly when Mays could have done with similar help himself a year later, there was no other Rex Mays on hand to save him.

[Scudder]

Shumacher let his countryman by in Brazil 2012.  

Edited by Scudder, 07 August 2015 - 14:01.

[RubalSher]

Shumacher let his countryman by in Brazil 2013.  

 

He was driving in 2013??

[Scudder]

He was driving in 2013??

Whoops  . 2012 would be the year I meant.

[RubalSher]

Whoops  . 2012 would be the year I meant.

 

I recently saw the race again. Where did he let Nico through?

 

Was his last race, hard to believe he would just let him through. Many drivers were caught out with the changing weather conditions and tyres and it is possible that he was just slow and not able to fight.

[xtremeclock]

Mark webber and Alonso Brazil 2012

 

Twice, first it was Webber squeezing Vettel at T1 and then the double overtake he and Massa prepared for Alonso (awesome friend he has).

 

ps: Well deserved payback by Vettel @ Sepang.

[Henri Greuter]

If we are going down the saving lives route, Rex Mays famously stopped his car in front of driver Duke Dinsmore at Milwaukee in 1948 after Dinsmore had been thrown out onto the track, thereby saving him from being run over by other cars.

Sadly when Mays could have done with similar help himself a year later, there was no other Rex Mays on hand to save him.

 

 

From what I have understood from Mays' accident there was little to no time anymore for cars behind him to undertake evasive action in time

 

 

 

Other drivers at Indy:

 

Chet Miller crashing out in order to avoid Floyd Roberts in 1939 (in vain), The resulting crash had its ever lasting affects on Chet's arm for the almost 14 years he had left to live.

Duke Nalon spinning out on the infield (into retirement) in order to avoid running into Gene Hartley.  (Duke was awarded a sportsmanship award for that action later on in the year)

Ed Elisian going to the Vuky crash site while Vuky was already beyond help (1955)

 

henri

[Exb]

I recently saw the race again. Where did he let Nico through?

 

Was his last race, hard to believe he would just let him through. Many drivers were caught out with the changing weather conditions and tyres and it is possible that he was just slow and not able to fight.

Not Nico - Seb ;)

(although Seb was much quicker at the time so it would have been a fairly easy overtake anyway)

[PaulTodd]

Why some of the comments mentioning team orders with a   at the side of them??

 

How can you get angry when it's part of the sport. Since day one we have had this why would you get annoyed?

[Jimisgod]

[Wally123]

Didn't Nico let Hamilton by in Brazil 13? And also not forgetting Malaysia 13, I don't believe he intended to make a move stick tbh.

[Scudder]

I recently saw the race again. Where did he let Nico through?

 

Was his last race, hard to believe he would just let him through. Many drivers were caught out with the changing weather conditions and tyres and it is possible that he was just slow and not able to fight.

I meant Seb, not Nico.  And Vettel would have got past anyway, but he needed to pass quickly to get enough points for WDC and Shumi just let him by.

[Collombin]

From what I have understood from Mays' accident there was little to no time anymore for cars behind him to undertake evasive action in time

Possibly, it's difficult to know for sure, but it was the 3rd or 4th car past that did the damage. A tragic irony in any case.

Back to Indy, Gary Bettenhausen stopped in 1971 to help out after one of the crashes (can't remember which, there were several biggies that year).

[Henri Greuter]

Possibly, it's difficult to know for sure, but it was the 3rd or 4th car past that did the damage. A tragic irony in any case.

 

 

 

It would not be the first time that a car way behind the first scene of impacts worsens the tragedy .

 

Zolder 1981 when an Arrows mechanic went ont the track with the lights about to go to green to fire up Patrese 's engine, he wasn't hit by one of teh cars close behind of which the drivers could see what had happened but he was hit by a driver way back in the field who had not been possible to see all of it, let alone understand why drivers in front of him moved over to the sieds of the track.

 

Pretty much the same for poor Ricardo Paletti at Montreal in 1982.

 

Fully agree with the irony.

Other piece of irony, related with Ed Elisian: he came to the aid of Vuky in '55. But I have read once that when he had his own eventually fatal accident the rumors were that the other drivers at the track initially refused to undertake any actions to enhance assistance to try to enable rescue workers come to his aid. Find that difficult to believe.

 

Henri

[Jim Thurman]

Possibly, it's difficult to know for sure, but it was the 3rd or 4th car past that did the damage. A tragic irony in any case.

Back to Indy, Gary Bettenhausen stopped in 1971 to help out after one of the crashes (can't remember which, there were several biggies that year).

 

Bettenhausen stopped to help Mike Mosley, who had literally gone underneath the parked car of Mark Donohue.

 

I've always felt the blame metered out to the driver who "ran over" Mays was grossly unfair and had a resurgance based on a highly questionable and very partisan account written not too long ago. Much in the vein of Ed Elisian being unjustly blamed and continually savaged over "killing" Pat O'Connor.

 

Countless examples in U.S. racing of drivers aiding or rescuing drivers involved in crashes, but I think the original post leaned to assisting in improving position and wishes it to be F1 only and instigate the inevitable cheapshots

[Jim Thurman]

It would not be the first time that a car way behind the first scene of impacts worsens the tragedy .

 

Fully agree with the irony.

Other piece of irony, related with Ed Elisian: he came to the aid of Vuky in '55. But I have read once that when he had his own eventually fatal accident the rumors were that the other drivers at the track initially refused to undertake any actions to enhance assistance to try to enable rescue workers come to his aid. Find that difficult to believe.

 

 

You shouldn't find it difficult to believe, you should find it impossible to believe, because it is patently false. It never happened. It's hard to trace where that ridiculous rumor originated, but it might have been with one writer who did more to damage Elisian's reputation than everything else combined.

[ensign14]

Zolder 1981 when an Arrows mechanic went ont the track with the lights about to go to green to fire up Patrese 's engine, he wasn't hit by one of teh cars close behind of which the drivers could see what had happened but he was hit by a driver way back in the field who had not been possible to see all of it, let alone understand why drivers in front of him moved over to the sieds of the track.

 

 

You can ramp the irony up to 11.  The driver that hit Patrese was his Arrows team-mate Siegfried Stohr.

[Collombin]

It's hard to trace where that ridiculous rumor originated

The first mention it got on this forum was from Buford.

[Jim Thurman]

The first mention it got on this forum was from Buford.

 

I realize that, but the story has been around for ages. It just gets trotted out more now with the internets, I am not certain the story originated with one motorsports writer, but much of the other specious Elisian lore did. As far this story, even as Buford passed it along, it's always: "I heard it from someone who was there (a friend)"  Which is exactly the way those sorts of stories go. Someone always heard it from someone, who heard it from someone. The story keeps growing down the line. Often they started with some wildly creative writing by journalists of the day - trotting out cliched tales, then on to motorsport writers that came along later, then eventually to the internet. That triumvirate leads to a initial tall tale, followed by embellishment and then, when folks at places like TrackForum get involved, even wilder embellishment. It is absolutely ridiculous the number of fatal accidents that are accompanied by this sort of claptrap.

[Henri Greuter]

You can ramp the irony up to 11.  The driver that hit Patrese was his Arrows team-mate Siegfried Stohr.

 

 

 

I don't want to distract the ironics too far away from my main message.

 

Henri

[PayasYouRace]

There's the finish of the 1955 British Grand Prix. We'll never know for sure if Fangio let Moss win at home.

[Collombin]

True, although I'm fairly convinced he did. Moss strongly believes so (without being certain), and Fangio did have previous.