36 replies to this topic

[Strontiumdog]

The annual list of Formula 1 team budgets has again been published, with the top-four all set to spend in excess of €400 million this year, it is claimed.

 

F1 2015 team budgets: 

1. Red Bull Racing (€266m + €35.7m + €167m) = €468.7m 
2. Mercedes (€122m + €212.4m + €133m) = €467.4m 
3. McLaren Honda (€144.5m + €216.5m + €104m) = €465m 
4. Ferrari (€208.5m + €34.5m + €175m) = €418m 
5. Williams (€52.5m + €22.9m + €111m) = €186.4m 
6. Lotus (€69.5m + €13.6m + €56m) = €139.1m 
7. Toro Rosso (€68m + €9.45m + €60m) = €137.45m 
8. Force India (€49.5m + €12.2m + €68m) = €129.7m 
9. Sauber (€44m + €9.25m + €50m) = €103.25m 
10. Manor (€0.5m + €32.5m + €50m) = €83m 

TOTALS: (€1025m + €599m +€974m) = €2598m

 

Source - http://www.crash.net...tm_campaign=rss

 

Not sure how accurate this is but I would have thought that Ferrari would be the fore runners here, am sure I heard they were increasing their budget this year by making $100 million available (not sure if that has been taken in consideration)

1 thing is for certain, the gap between the top 4 team in is almost 300 more than the next set of teams. 

Edited by Strontiumdog, 09 August 2015 - 15:09.

[Marklar]

From that list we could make a different one

 

How much € m I need to spend to score a point?

1. Mercedes    1.22
2. Williams       1.23
3. Ferrari         1.77
4. Force India  3.33
5. Lotus           3.97
6. Toro Rosso 4.43
7. Sauber        4.69
8. Red Bull      4.88
9. McLaren    27.35

[JAW97]

Oh dear Mclaren...

[Marklar]

From that article

 

Income from Sponsors

1. Red Bull      266
2. Ferrari        208.5
3. McLaren     144.5
4. Mercedes   122
5. Lotus           69.5
6. Toro Rosso 68
7. Williams       52.5
8. Force India  49.5
9. Sauber        44
10. Manor         0.5 

Income from partners

1. McLaren      216.5
2. Mercedes    212.4
3. Red Bull         35.7
4. Ferrari           34.5
5. Manor           32.5
6. Williams        22.9
7. Lotus            13.6
8. Force India   12.2
9. Toro Rosso    9.45
10. Sauber           9.25

 

Income from TV

1. Ferrari      175
2. Red Bull   167
3. Mercedes 133
4. Williams    111
5. McLaren   104
6. Force India 68
7. Toro Rosso 60
8. Lotus           56
9. Sauber        50
10. Manor         50

Edited by Marklar, 09 August 2015 - 15:55.

[HoldenRT]

So there's limited Friday tyres, engines that last for 5 races, no inseason testing, no Friday 3rd test car, no 3rd at all, frozen engines, and spec tyres and they still spend as much as before?

 

The silliest thing for me was the first race of the season, in one of the practice sessions James Allen was standing infront of one of the garages and he was talking about the front wing jack and bragging about how many thousands of pounds it costs and how hi tech it is, I can't remember the amount but it was something outrageous like 100K pounds.  It could have been more.

 

While at the same time all of the teams preach cost cutting and reduce many of the things that make the season interesting in the name of cost cutting, yet still spend ridiculous amounts regardless.

Edited by HoldenRT, 09 August 2015 - 16:40.

[Hans V]

Who are paying McLaren €144.5 millions?

[Fisico54]

Just speculation and guesswork, as if the few people who know accurate figures would let them slip

[SilverArrow31]

I agree with the ridiculous spending, Manor has only just got enough money to get a car on track and yet they arrive at the European races with a massive motor home, yeah smaller than everyone else's but still a massive cost on things that are not vital to go racing. 

[FullThrottleF1]

... but could be useful for having a place to sit for potential sponsors.

[SilverArrow31]

Very true

[noikeee]

how on earth does RBR got more cash than the 2 manufacturers?

[FullThrottleF1]

How many people drink Red Bull?

[Stephane]

They need to sell a lot of can to earn what Mercedes or Ferrari are gaining with a car sale.

[Nathan]

The numbers of the top-4 don't seem legit.

Edited by Nathan, 09 August 2015 - 18:27.

[Gorma]

Income does not equal spending.

[Cloxxki]

They need to sell a lot of can to earn what Mercedes or Ferrari are gaining with a car sale.

One can per year to every world citizen, apart from being refined sugar global poisoning, would be a nice revenue in itself. 

[Strontiumdog]

Am just surprised that Ferrari is 4th on the list behind McLaren  

[apoka]

So Alonso did move to a bigger team after all.

[Pilla]

That's crazy, espeacially because Red Bull is just a chassis manufacturer. Does the Ferrari and Merceidies engine program also get included? Does Honda get included with Mclaren?

[Dolph]

They need to sell a lot of can to earn what Mercedes or Ferrari are gaining with a car sale.

 

Are you pointing out that a can of Red Bull is cheaper than a Ferrari?

[Imateria]

I don't trust these figures in the slightest. Most estimats, with quite a few of them being based on tax returns, puts the budgets of Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes in the £250mil region (about 300mil Euros?) with McLaren closer to £200mil since they haven't been able to replace the Vodaphone and Santandare sponsorship. This list puts them about a 150mil euros higher which makes it quite suspect to be honest.

[oetzi]

£250m ~ €350m

[lukekarts]

Are you pointing out that a can of Red Bull is cheaper than a Ferrari?

 

Interestingly, Red Bull is a bigger company than Ferrari if you go by revenue:

 

Red Bull - €5.1bn revenue (2014) and you'd have to estimate that, despite all the sponsorship and funding an F1 team, still a hefty profit...

Ferrari - €2.3bn (2013)

 

Something like 7,000 cars vs 5.6 billion cans.

[hittheapex]

So there's limited Friday tyres, engines that last for 5 races, no inseason testing, no Friday 3rd test car, no 3rd at all, frozen engines, and spec tyres and they still spend as much as before?

 

The silliest thing for me was the first race of the season, in one of the practice sessions James Allen was standing infront of one of the garages and he was talking about the front wing jack and bragging about how many thousands of pounds it costs and how hi tech it is, I can't remember the amount but it was something outrageous like 100K pounds.  It could have been more.

 

While at the same time all of the teams preach cost cutting and reduce many of the things that make the season interesting in the name of cost cutting, yet still spend ridiculous amounts regardless.

"Cost cutting" measures and all the rule restrictions have just meant that the bigger teams focus their money within a narrower range of demands. The "cost cutting" measures aren't aimed at them. It might make a negligible difference for the smaller teams, but really they would be helped better by a bigger share of the sports income being given to all the teams. More achievable, but not without opposition, would be simply reducing the number of races. If we went back to 16-18 races, that saves teams on travelling and participating. Less parts are needed, in particular they would save a few million by being able to use less of the more expensive new engines.

[Talisman]

They need to sell a lot of can to earn what Mercedes or Ferrari are gaining with a car sale.

 

No R/D costs, negligible component costs, the markup on a can of RB is immense.  Thus most of their revenue can be taken as profit or used in marketing which is where the F1 budget comes from.

 

RB is probably the closest product involved in F1 to tobacco in terms of business model, except that they are freer to chose different modes of advertising.

[Henri Greuter]

I wonder what kind of figure changes (and where) we would see in case of unrestrictred engine development been allowed again.

Does this list also include driver fees? If not.....

 

Kaching, kaching, kaching.....

 

Henri

[Fastcake]

"Cost cutting" measures and all the rule restrictions have just meant that the bigger teams focus their money within a narrower range of demands. The "cost cutting" measures aren't aimed at them. It might make a negligible difference for the smaller teams, but really they would be helped better by a bigger share of the sports income being given to all the teams. More achievable, but not without opposition, would be simply reducing the number of races. If we went back to 16-18 races, that saves teams on travelling and participating. Less parts are needed, in particular they would save a few million by being able to use less of the more expensive new engines.

But how much would you save once you factor in the loss of income from fewer races? You're probably looking at a net loss.

[hittheapex]

But how much would you save once you factor in the loss of income from fewer races? You're probably looking at a net loss.

Hmm yes...hadn't thought that through.

[Rinehart]

 

F1 2015 team budgets: 

1. Red Bull Racing (€266m + €35.7m + €167m) = €468.7m 
2. Mercedes (€122m + €212.4m + €133m) = €467.4m 
3. McLaren Honda (€144.5m + €216.5m + €104m) = €465m 
4. Ferrari (€208.5m + €34.5m + €175m) = €418m 
5. Williams (€52.5m + €22.9m + €111m) = €186.4m 
6. Lotus (€69.5m + €13.6m + €56m) = €139.1m 
7. Toro Rosso (€68m + €9.45m + €60m) = €137.45m 
8. Force India (€49.5m + €12.2m + €68m) = €129.7m 
9. Sauber (€44m + €9.25m + €50m) = €103.25m 
10. Manor (€0.5m + €32.5m + €50m) = €83m 

 

Funny to think that the F1 Survey revealed that most fans don't want customer cars because it would lead to a... "2 tier" F1... 

[Rinehart]

how on earth does RBR got more cash than the 2 manufacturers?

volume & margin. 

[Force Ten]

 

From that article

 

Income from Sponsors

1. Red Bull      266
2. Ferrari        208.5
3. McLaren     144.5
4. Mercedes   122
5. Lotus           69.5
6. Toro Rosso 68
7. Williams       52.5
8. Force India  49.5
9. Sauber        44
10. Manor         0.5 

Income from partners

1. McLaren      216.5
2. Mercedes    212.4
3. Red Bull         35.7
4. Ferrari           34.5
5. Manor           32.5
6. Williams        22.9
7. Lotus            13.6
8. Force India   12.2
9. Toro Rosso    9.45
10. Sauber           9.25

 

Income from TV

1. Ferrari      175
2. Red Bull   167
3. Mercedes 133
4. Williams    111
5. McLaren   104
6. Force India 68
7. Toro Rosso 60
8. Lotus           56
9. Sauber        50
10. Manor         50

 

Hmm, I wonder where all the "McLaren are doomed they have no title sponsor, they should have done like Williams and lower their price" and "McLaren are doomed they have no logos on their livery, look at Force India!" guys are.

[rasul]

So Ferrari are beating two richer teams this year. 

[FullThrottleF1]

Funny to think that the F1 Survey revealed that most fans don't want customer cars because it would lead to a... "2 tier" F1... 

 

Despite the fact that Williams are right up there.

[Force Ten]

Despite the fact that Williams are right up there.

Except in the context of Williams "right up there" means dishing it out with Mercedes race by race not being sorta kinda half way able to be up there when Mercs really mess up. We are talking about one of the best teams in F1 history, not Sauber.

 

What was the last time a non-works team won a race? Was it 2012 Pirelli lottery times?

[Zava]

Except in the context of Williams "right up there" means dishing it out with Mercedes race by race not being sorta kinda half way able to be up there when Mercs really mess up. We are talking about one of the best teams in F1 history, not Sauber.

What was the last time a non-works team won a race? Was it 2012 Pirelli lottery times?

I'd guess 2013 Australia, Kimi - lotus.

[FullThrottleF1]

I'd guess 2013 Australia, Kimi - lotus.

 

I remember that race... the rest of the season sucked.

[tomazy]

 

"It's easy to say they're spending two-and-half times what we're spending and that's all it will take - but that is not true on a number of levels," said Symonds.

 

€186.4m*2.5=466m so the numbers are right regarding this quote.

 

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120290