55 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

Fernando Alonso revealed to Motorsport.com today his own proposal
 

I think if we had a limited number of sets for the whole season, maybe 20 prime, 20 medium, 20 soft and 20 supersoft, you choose yourself which tyres to bring to each Grand Prix. Maybe there are some circuits that you are not in the same area as your competitors – maybe you risk more, or you risk less. I think it could work.

This is not new: with Michelin tyres, I think we all had different compounds, McLaren had its own compounds, Renault had its own compounds – maybe softer at the front, stiffer at the front, different weight distribution. Now we have same camber limitation, same weight distribution limitation, same tyre limitation. It is the way it is right now.

 

Also Arrivabene agrees with him regarding the point that the teams should have the freedom to choose their compounds

 

 

Talking about tyres, I am dreaming about the day when the teams can make their own choice, Then F1 is going to be a bit more interesting.

 

http://in.motorsport...-choice-freedom

 

• Some months ago Force India already proposed that the teams should choose their tyres on their own and in secret to Pirelli a month before the race.
• Later Red Bull proposed to have 5 jokers per season in were you can choose one additional compound to the compounds Pirelli is recommending.
• And also Mercedes made an proposal: Pirelli should inform the teams before the season which compounds are allowed on which track and than the teams should be choose their tyres a month before the race (like in the Force India idea)
• Pirelli is actually planing to introduce a super-super-soft tyre to have an larger selection. Furthermore they want to introduce a wild card system. In some races the teams will have a free choice and in some races with potential safety issues Pirelli will dictate the choice (block-out-events).

Which of these 5 ideas do you think are reasonable? Should the teams decide which compounds they want to use? Or should it stay like it is?

[SealTheDiffuser]

I want good years. coming. tyre wise.

[FullThrottleF1]

Me!   

[Wally123]

Hell the teams can't predict what a tyre will do come race day let alone a month in advance! It will had another variable but I guess most teams would choose the same tyre compounds with the data they have at hand.

Edited by Wally123, 11 August 2015 - 14:36.

[PlatenGlass]

I don't think there should be any nonsense with the tyres - no "jokers", no deciding in secret a month before etc. Pirelli should have all compounds available at every race for use by the teams whenever they want. That's it.

But you can reduce the number of compounds if you want. I'd be perfectly happy for there to be just one dry compound to be honest. But it doesn't matter. Whether one, two, three, four or seventy-nine, just let the teams use what they want when they want. Everything else is just nonsense.

[ANF]

Michelin?

[FerrariV12]

I don't think there should be any nonsense with the tyres - no "jokers", no deciding in secret a month before etc. Pirelli should have all compounds available at every race for use by the teams whenever they want. That's it.

But you can reduce the number of compounds if you want. I'd be perfectly happy for there to be just one dry compound to be honest. But it doesn't matter. Whether one, two, three, four or seventy-nine, just let the teams use what they want when they want. Everything else is just nonsense.

 

That'd be my ideal scenario (well ideal would be a tyre war, but.. never gonna happen). I think the argument against that is cost to transport all the tyres for every eventuality. How much those extra freight costs would be compared to all the other expenses I don't know, whether it's a significant one or a relative drop in the ocean, but that's the argument I've heard in the past.

[blacky]

I'd be perfectly happy for there to be just one dry compound to be honest.

 

I also think so. Just one dry compound for a 2-stop race and good quali perfomance and that's it.

[PlatenGlass]

That'd be my ideal scenario (well ideal would be a tyre war, but.. never gonna happen). I think the argument against that is cost to transport all the tyres for every eventuality. How much those extra freight costs would be compared to all the other expenses I don't know, whether it's a significant one or a relative drop in the ocean, but that's the argument I've heard in the past.

That's why I'd probably reduce the number of compounds. I don't think all the choice is necessary with no tyre war. As long as they're high-quality tyres and not designed to be like cheese.

[tifosi]

Pirelli should bring all available tires.

Teams should be able to run any tire they want even mixing sets should they desire.

[Seanspeed]

I'm fine with the way it is. Pirelli cant just bring tons of sets of every compound they have. Well, they *could*, but it's not reasonable from a cost standpoint.

And I'm not necessarily in favor of having teams pick which tires they use in general. This isn't MotoGP where the differences between compounds are fairly minimal. It is a *massive* difference in F1 by comparison. Too many quali/race results would be largely dependent on tire choice rather than car competitiveness. That's not the kind of racing I want to see.

[Chick0]

Pirelli should bring all available tires.

Teams should be able to run any tire they want even mixing sets should they desire.

 

Agree..  No need for a season limit on how many of each you can have, why make things more complicated!! 

[Jimisgod]

A monkey with an oversized novelty hat.

Edited by Jimisgod, 11 August 2015 - 16:53.

[MikeV1987]

The teams pay top dollar for those tires, they should be the ones choosing. I do like Alonso's idea too.

Edited by MikeV1987, 11 August 2015 - 16:58.

[nosecone]

A monkey with an oversized novelty hat.

 

In what way is this different to what we have?

[Jimisgod]

In what way is this different to what we have?

 

 

They already have the hat.

Edited by Jimisgod, 11 August 2015 - 17:03.

[PlatenGlass]

I'm fine with the way it is. Pirelli cant just bring tons of sets of every compound they have. Well, they *could*, but it's not reasonable from a cost standpoint.

And I'm not necessarily in favor of having teams pick which tires they use in general. This isn't MotoGP where the differences between compounds are fairly minimal. It is a *massive* difference in F1 by comparison. Too many quali/race results would be largely dependent on tire choice rather than car competitiveness. That's not the kind of racing I want to see.

I'm not happy with Pirelli having the power to influence race results by picking tyres that suit a certain team. I'm not suggesting they would so this, but the very fact they have this power is too much.

If it's a problem bringing tons of tyres, reduce the number of compounds available. There's no need for them all.

And if teams can choose the tyres, I don't think the results would depend too much on them because if the differences are so massive it would generally be obvious which compound to use.

But with no tyre war, we really don't need a choice of dry tyre compound. One size (compound) fits all.

[lustigson]

Easiest would be for Pirelli to consult with the teams about the 2 compounds that would be available for each race, but the cars should not have the run both compounds during the races and just run whatever the heck they want. Of course with a limit to the total number of sets used.

 

Option would be for them to have to choose their compound on Friday.

[totgate]

Let the teams choose, also allow them to run different compounds front and rear.

[Imateria]

I'm not happy with Pirelli having the power to influence race results by picking tyres that suit a certain team. I'm not suggesting they would so this, but the very fact they have this power is too much.

If it's a problem bringing tons of tyres, reduce the number of compounds available. There's no need for them all.

And if teams can choose the tyres, I don't think the results would depend too much on them because if the differences are so massive it would generally be obvious which compound to use.

But with no tyre war, we really don't need a choice of dry tyre compound. One size (compound) fits all.

Completely unworkable due to the variaty of tracks. A tyre that can work well in Barcelona would be completely useless in Monaco and vice versa, you will never get a single compound that works on all the tracks.

 

I've said before I'm completely in agreement with the FI suggestion of letting the teams choose their own compounds for each race, if someone wants to take a risk and gets it wrong then it's their own fault, and thats how it should be.

[Atreiu]

The teams.

I have a better idea/I'm not entirely familiar with the any proposals already made.

 

---

 

Pirelli develops 6 tyres ranging from qualifying tyres to extra hards. And then they bring all of them to each GP and the teams have entirely free use of tyres in any combination possible through the weekend. The only limit being that no driver can use more than XXX tyres per weekend. XXX being determined by the FIA according to costs and other issues. There would be no secrecy in tyre choice.

 

Using Barcelona as the yardstick. Ideally the qualifying tyres would take 2 or 3 laps of complete abuse, and the extra hards could take another ammount, say some 20 or 25 laps. All tyres would last more if nursed, obviously. And between pushing and nursing, teams should be able to gamble on different stretegies.

[PlatenGlass]

Completely unworkable due to the variaty of tracks. A tyre that can work well in Barcelona would be completely useless in Monaco and vice versa, you will never get a single compound that works on all the tracks.
 
I've said before I'm completely in agreement with the FI suggestion of letting the teams choose their own compounds for each race, if someone wants to take a risk and gets it wrong then it's their own fault, and thats how it should be.

What does it mean for a compound to "work"? If you have a tyre compound that's durable enough not to require a load of pitstops on the harshest of tracks, then yes, it won't give as much grip as drivers are used to on some other tracks, but so what? The thing about tyres having this really narrow operating range when they're "switched on" is an artefact of the current design of tyres, not a necessity.

In any case, a few compounds is fine by me, as long as the teams are free to choose and don't have to make some stupid lottery guess in advance of the race.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 11 August 2015 - 22:10.

[Imateria]

What does it mean for a compound to "work"? If you have a tyre compound that's durable enough not to require a load of pitstops on the harshest of tracks, then yes, it won't give as much grip as drivers are used to on some other tracks, but so what? The thing about tyres having this really narrow operating range when they're "switched on" is an artefact of the current design of tyres, not a necessity.

In any case, a few compounds is fine by me, as long as the teams are free to choose and don't have to make some stupid lottery guess in advance of the race.

It's been an artifact of tyre design for decades. And I wonder how realistic it is to have a jack of all trades tyre that's actually worth a damn, but probably not at all.

[CurbPainter]

Alonso was the one made the best use of how the Michelin tyres worked, which contributed to him becoming WDC twice. So I'm not surprised he's advocating for it.

 

Ferrari profited from Rosberg choosing the primes in Hungary, so I'm also not surprised to see Arrivabene advocating for it.

 

They should not make too much of a lottery out of it, no matter how badly Alonso wants to become WDC again and Ferrari thinks they can profit from dubious Mercedes calls.

[Zava]

I'm fine with the way it is. Pirelli cant just bring tons of sets of every compound they have. Well, they *could*, but it's not reasonable from a cost standpoint.

And I'm not necessarily in favor of having teams pick which tires they use in general. This isn't MotoGP where the differences between compounds are fairly minimal. It is a *massive* difference in F1 by comparison. Too many quali/race results would be largely dependent on tire choice rather than car competitiveness. That's not the kind of racing I want to see.

What is the problem with, say, Williams being rewarded because they can make a step softer tyres than Mercedes' choice last the same distance?

[oetzi]

What is the problem with either providing one tyre to limit costs or giving teams a free choice?

[fridge46]

First of all, it is my opinion that Pirelli have done an absolutely wonderful job in regard to tyres ever since they returned to F1. Their objective was to produce tyres that wore and resulted in 2/3 pit stops. Ok, it wasnt perfect every weekend, but for the most part was fine. Then the teams complained and wanted more durable tyres.... Pirelli made the tyres more durable then received complaints that the GP's were too boring (see Russia 2014). The only sour note to Pirelli reputation over the last few years was Silverstone 2013.

 

It is impossible to have a situation where we have durable tyres and multiple pit stops. Impossible. You can have durable tyres/1 stop (and thats only to make use of both compounds) or degradable tyres/multi-stops. There isnt a middle ground. The more durable a tyre, the more the finish order will be identical to qualifying order (subject to those qualifying out of position/mother nature), a point Martin Brundle made in Spain (2014 I think).

 

What really pees me off is that the teams constantly bitch and complain and bitch and complain, but yet dont want to do dedicated tyre testing for Pirelli. We are seeing it right now. Teams want  faster tyres - super super soft - yet dont want to test it (FP at Singapore, test day after Abu Dhabi have been suggested by Pirelli and shot down by the teams). I read that there is going to be a wet tyre test at Paul Ricard next January, hopefully that will shut a few people up in the paddock.

 

If we are going to spice the the tyre situation - I'd go for variation Alonso's idea.

 

Lets say for a 20 race season / 4 tyre compounds - at the start of the season Pirelli gives 10 races worth of each tyre compound to each team. It is then up to each team to transport them around the world. If they want to appear at some races with all four, so be it - but they have to nominate which 2 compounds they want to use for the weekend before FP1. Mixing compounds will just result in less pitstops; you might as well just throw the tyres away and have the cars run on rails.

 

The chances are most teams will end up choosing the same compound, but there will be a few races where compounds can be borderline.

 

Of all the things wrong with F1, tyres arent one of them.

[ExFlagMan]

I guess Fernando must have got bored during the enforced layoff and has been trawling the Autosport Forum Archive, as he appears to be proposing exactly what I suggested back in June 2011.

[Wally123]

I wonder if Alonso would be saying the same if he was in a title winning car in this era?

[Donkey]

First of all, it is my opinion that Pirelli have done an absolutely wonderful job in regard to tyres ever since they returned to F1. Their objective was to produce tyres that wore and resulted in 2/3 pit stops. Ok, it wasnt perfect every weekend, but for the most part was fine. Then the teams complained and wanted more durable tyres.... Pirelli made the tyres more durable then received complaints that the GP's were too boring (see Russia 2014). The only sour note to Pirelli reputation over the last few years was Silverstone 2013.

 

It is impossible to have a situation where we have durable tyres and multiple pit stops. Impossible. You can have durable tyres/1 stop (and thats only to make use of both compounds) or degradable tyres/multi-stops. There isnt a middle ground. The more durable a tyre, the more the finish order will be identical to qualifying order (subject to those qualifying out of position/mother nature), a point Martin Brundle made in Spain (2014 I think).

 

What really pees me off is that the teams constantly bitch and complain and bitch and complain, but yet dont want to do dedicated tyre testing for Pirelli. We are seeing it right now. Teams want  faster tyres - super super soft - yet dont want to test it (FP at Singapore, test day after Abu Dhabi have been suggested by Pirelli and shot down by the teams). I read that there is going to be a wet tyre test at Paul Ricard next January, hopefully that will shut a few people up in the paddock.

 

If we are going to spice the the tyre situation - I'd go for variation Alonso's idea.

 

Lets say for a 20 race season / 4 tyre compounds - at the start of the season Pirelli gives 10 races worth of each tyre compound to each team. It is then up to each team to transport them around the world. If they want to appear at some races with all four, so be it - but they have to nominate which 2 compounds they want to use for the weekend before FP1. Mixing compounds will just result in less pitstops; you might as well just throw the tyres away and have the cars run on rails.

 

The chances are most teams will end up choosing the same compound, but there will be a few races where compounds can be borderline.

 

Of all the things wrong with F1, tyres arent one of them.

Actually I think you're hinting at an interesting idea, give the teams a quota of tyre compounds they must use over the course of the season.

 

Keep the rule about 2 compounds per race weekend and drivers must use both during a race.

 

Assuming there there are 20 races in a season (40 tyre compound choices), they would have to nominate supersoft 10 times, soft 10 times, medium 10 times and hard 10 times over the course of the season. Any combination at a race is fine, they could bring supersoft and hard to a race if that made strategic sense.

 

Would possibly encourage a bit of variance in tyre choices if different cars handle better on one compound or the other or they want to target a particular race for a good result. And if one tyre turns out to be the best overall at most tracks they will be limited to using it at most half of the races over the season (and they would be forced to bring the 'worst' tyre to half the races as well, so would have to think carefully about strategy).

 

Teams would have to nominate tyre choices in blocks of 4 races to give Pirelli a bit of a chance at the manufacturing/logistics end. However nominations would be secret and not revealed to the other teams until they turn up at the racetrack.

[Jon83]

I have a better idea, but it's a secret proposal so cannot share.

[HeadFirst]

Pirelli produces only 3 compounds for the season ...... a prime compound, plus a softer option and a harder option. Teams receive either the harder or softer option tire (their choice) plus the prime for each race. Teams are not required to use both compounds for the race.

[MattK9]

Pirelli should make a super-duper soft tyre that even at monaco, you need to take 2 stops a races minimum. Then pirelli can take 3 tyre choices to each gp, and drop the nonsense to do with both running at least 2 types of tyre in the race and starting on a set that was used in quali.

 

That way some cars will try a one stop and some will try a 3 stop. Maybe even a no stop.

Different strategies make for interesting races. The current rules means that the strategy of tyre choice in the race is a no-brainer and every team does the same.

[PlatenGlass]

Pirelli should make a super-duper soft tyre that even at monaco, you need to take 2 stops a races minimum.

Michelin did this in 2002. Got the front row but had a tyre that was several seconds per lap slower than Bridgestone in the race. But Coulthard had track position and won the race without an extra stop that his tyres were crying out for.

[ardbeg]

Completely unworkable due to the variaty of tracks. A tyre that can work well in Barcelona would be completely useless in Monaco and vice versa, you will never get a single compound that works on all the tracks.

Nonsense. Of course you can have a tire that works on all tracks. It will not be perfect on all tracks though, but same for all. The tire need to be more "mellow" though, have a wider temperature working range. The spikey tires they use now is forcing the engineers to drive the cars.

My suggestion, though, is that Pirelli brings tires just like now but the "must use both compounds" rule should be skipped.

[P123]

Just do away with the rules that stipulates both type of compound must be run in a race and that you must start the race on the tyre you qualify on.  Increase the choice from two to three different compounds.  Use them however you wish.

[ExFlagMan]

Who pays for the extra tyres that have to be supplied/transported in order for that to work?

[f1RacingForever]

The working range of these tires are so narrow that there is one compound combination that is clearly best for most GP's thus it wouldn't make much sense to gamble. Majority of teams would be using the exact same compounds at every gp if given choice.

[Marklar]

According to AMuS: Pirelli will decide for every race which three tyre compounds can be used. Than the teams can free decide how many of which compound they want for each driver (e.g. 6 super soft, 4 softs, 3 mediums). They can choose overall 13 sets per driver. It doesnt need to be the same for both drivers in the team

http://www.auto-moto...n-10225625.html

[Giz]

That'll do

[Fatgadget]

Who pays for the extra tyres that have to be supplied/transported in order for that to work?

Yeah.Good question that!I also presume they have to ship wet weeather tyres to Bahrain for eg..just in case?

[Jovanotti]

According to AMuS: Pirelli will decide for every race which three tyre compounds can be used. Than the teams can free decide how many of which compound they want for each driver (e.g. 6 super soft, 4 softs, 3 mediums). They can choose overall 13 sets per driver. It doesnt need to be the same for both drivers in the team

http://www.auto-moto...n-10225625.html

I have to say, very good and sensible decision together with the new ultra soft Now I just hope they don't go overly conservative when preselecting the 3 available compounds.

[peroa]

The new Pirelli idea does sound good but only if DRS is banned, otherwise it's going to be even worse...

[RedBaron]

Teams not all running the same compounds and not having the same compounds available is a good idea. I like most of the proposals.

 

We don't have a tyre war but with a big enough range of tyres to chose from we may get tyre battles.

[Fatgadget]

Teams not all running the same compounds and not having the same compounds available is a good idea. I like most of the proposals.

We don't have a tyre war but with a big enough range of tyres to chose from we may get tyre battles.

l too like that a lot. A bit of a lottery,but hey ho,it might just bring into the mix the likes of Manor on a good day when the moons are aligned and the wind blowing in the right direction.Better still,its not contrived nor gimmicky....bring it on!

[RedBaron]

l too like that a lot. A bit of a lottery,but hey ho,it might just bring into the mix the likes of Manor on a good day when the moons are aligned and the wind blowing in the right direction.Better still,its not contrived nor gimmicky....bring it on!

 

Yeh, sort of like Imola 2005 when the Bridgestone's were far more switched on than the Michelin runner. And at the Hungarian GP 1997 when again the Bridgestone cars were on fire, Arrows almost won the race.

 

Maybe not quite the margin of advantage we saw in the examples I mentioned, but it adds in a new element. One that isn't 'fake' (as long as teams pick the compound themselves) that can advantage one car over another.

[OO7]

I hope all the teams run the softest available compound (from Pirelli's range) for Q3, rather than turning qualifying into an impure event with many drivers on different tyres compounds.  This would contaminate the event in my opinion, just as it did when cars qualified with different levels of fuel.

[Fatgadget]

The new Pirelli idea does sound good but only if DRS is banned, otherwise it's going to be even worse...

How so? How does DRS negatively impact this? Or more to the point how not having DRS better....take your pick which one to address.

[turssi]

Bernie to decide based on entertainment* value.

*how much money he can get from the big teams

[TheRacingElf]

The new Pirelli idea does sound good but only if DRS is banned, otherwise it's going to be even worse...

Not wanting to derail the thread but DRS should be banned anyway.

 

But I agree, the speed difference nowadays is already too big on many occasions and with 3 different compounds the difference in speed between cars on different compounds will only get bigger.