53 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

Another manufacturer hint from Sauber: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/120339

Edited by FullThrottleF1, 17 August 2015 - 10:35.

[shonguiz]

Why desperate, she's only speaking common sense there.

[PayasYouRace]

How is that a desperate plea? She's saying that she'd like to partner a manufacturer again but is cautious because of the negatives such an arrangement brings.

 

Quoting her in that very article:

 

"The target has to be to have a strong partner," Kaltenborn told AUTOSPORT.

 

"One has to be always very cautious with engine manufacturers and becoming a works team.

 

"When you achieve that and you achieve that a couple of times ... you have achieved your target and then you leave."

 

"If winning does not happen they have also, as we have seen, quit the sport."

 

"The important thing is to have a strong partner who has a longer term view on the sport, irrespective of where you stand."

 

"We're always open and we get requests in," she said. "We are open to a partnership like that because it makes you stronger."

 

That's not very desperate. Did you even read the article?

Edited by PayasYouRace, 17 August 2015 - 10:22.

[FerrariV12]

I interpret that as the opposite - they'd welcome a manufacturer partner but won't just jump into bed with any regardless of terms. Every other independent would be the same I'm sure.

[FullThrottleF1]

 

How is that a desperate plea? She's saying that she'd like to partner a manufacturer again but is cautious because of the negatives such an arrangement brings.

 

Quoting her in that very article:

 

"The target has to be to have a strong partner," Kaltenborn told AUTOSPORT.

 

"One has to be always very cautious with engine manufacturers and becoming a works team.

 

"When you achieve that and you achieve that a couple of times ... you have achieved your target and then you leave."

 

"If winning does not happen they have also, as we have seen, quit the sport."

 

"The important thing is to have a strong partner who has a longer term view on the sport, irrespective of where you stand."

 

"We're always open and we get requests in," she said. "We are open to a partnership like that because it makes you stronger."

 

That's not very desperate. Did you even read the article?

 

Fixed! 

[PayasYouRace]

Fixed! 

 

Oh you fixed yours. 

Edited by PayasYouRace, 17 August 2015 - 10:52.

[taran]

I do think its a desperate plea. Any independent team is open to (the right) manufacturer's offer. There is no need to shout it to the world.

The fact that Kaltenborn has to go "public" is in fact a desperate plea for attention.

 

And with her reputation for dishonesty, I am not surprised nobody is touching Sauber.

[Imateria]

I do think its a desperate plea. Any independent team is open to (the right) manufacturer's offer. There is no need to shout it to the world.

The fact that Kaltenborn has to go "public" is in fact a desperate plea for attention.

 

And with her reputation for dishonesty, I am not surprised nobody is touching Sauber.

Are you aware how journalism works? People ask you questions, you answer them and they get published. This wasn't a press release, the article actually states that Autosport asked her about this so she just answered the questions. She could of course just not answer but this is Formula 1, we all know that doing that quickly leads to wild speculation of the team about to go bankrupt and and the bosses trying to keep it quiet.

[SenorSjon]

I wonder how many she will sign... </to easy>

 

 

I don't see manufacturers line up to spend a whole lot of money in F1, a sport/business/entertainment branch that is very hostile to newcomers. See the distribution of FOM funds for instance. When you start, you are 30-40m behind the current teams. Then you risk getting a McLaren-Honda season where you cannot test or develop your findings on-track. It would be very foolish for anyone to hop in F1 right now.

[Jimisgod]

So we should expect to see a Sauber Ferrari-BMW-Porsche-Honda-Mercedes-Renault-Hyundai-Kia-Ford in 2016?

[lustigson]

I read the article as a negotiating ploy.  B-)

[TIPO61]

Kaltenborn's gonna sign four or five engine manufacturers for sure.

Edited by TIPO61, 17 August 2015 - 20:34.

[Marklar]

Kaltenborn's gonna sign four or five engine manufacturers for sure.

Red Bull would be happy with one. Maybe they should ask Monisha for help...

[taran]

Are you aware how journalism works? People ask you questions, you answer them and they get published. This wasn't a press release, the article actually states that Autosport asked her about this so she just answered the questions. She could of course just not answer but this is Formula 1, we all know that doing that quickly leads to wild speculation of the team about to go bankrupt and and the bosses trying to keep it quiet.

Yes, i do know. And because i do, i know that executives don't give spontaneous answers to unsollicitated questions. Kaltenborn agreed to answer which means she's peddling something. And because its Kaltenborn, we all know that particular something stinks....

[Talisman]

Yes, i do know. And because i do, i know that executives don't give spontaneous answers to unsollicitated questions. Kaltenborn agreed to answer which means she's peddling something. And because its Kaltenborn, we all know that particular something stinks....

 

Can you name a single independent team that wouldn't welcome a works deal or a manufacturer buy in?  What were you expecting her to say?  That she would prefer NOT to get a large cash injection, technical support and financial security?

 

We've had STR and Lotus both court Renault and it looks like the latter are going to sell out.  McLaren signed up with Honda two years ago.  You can bet that Williams, FI and Manor would if they had the chance.  So why is it so controversial that Kaltenborn thinks the same way?  Bizarre logic.

 

BTW say what you will about her, nearly six months after the VdG affair and she's still in place exactly where she was before.  Says a lot about how she's viewed in the paddock that she's kept her job, that perhaps what the public saw wasn't the full picture.

Edited by Talisman, 17 August 2015 - 21:36.

[automovelbrilhante]

Well, she's a shareholder by now... I'd expect. But yeah, she's pitching.

For the incredulous:

Kaltenborn pointed to strong relationships the team has had in the past as reason to want to pursue similar partnerships in the future.

"We're always open and we get requests in," she said. "We are open to a partnership like that because it makes you stronger.

"We have had strong partners, not just manufacturers. We had Petronas for a very long time.

"We had BMW who bought a majority in the team and the same with Red Bull. So we are absolutely open for that."

 

Would they go BMW all over again? Absolutely. Do I care? Definitely.     

 

 

[taran]

Can you name a single independent team that wouldn't welcome a works deal or a manufacturer buy in?  What were you expecting her to say?  That she would prefer NOT to get a large cash injection, technical support and financial security?
 
We've had STR and Lotus both court Renault and it looks like the latter are going to sell out.  McLaren signed up with Honda two years ago.  You can bet that Williams, FI and Manor would if they had the chance.  So why is it so controversial that Kaltenborn thinks the same way?  Bizarre logic.
 
BTW say what you will about her, nearly six months after the VdG affair and she's still in place exactly where she was before.  Says a lot about how she's viewed in the paddock that she's kept her job, that perhaps what the public saw wasn't the full picture.

How about Williams? That's a team that wants to stay independent.......

Once again, there is nothing wrong with teams wanting partners. Every team does. Most guys want a girlfriend too. But its rather pathetic if they start telling everyone....there is a reason why kaltenborn is going public with this desire and that's not because a journo asked if cashstrapped independent poor little sauber would like a sugar daddy?

As for kaltenborn still running sauber, she pulled the vdg stunt with the full support of peter sauber. So who is going to fire her? I rather doubt she is going to find new partners, sponsors and drivers with her attitude to contracts...

[FullThrottleF1]

How about Williams? That's a team that wants to stay independent.......

Once again, there is nothing wrong with teams wanting partners. Every team does. Most guys want a girlfriend too. But its rather pathetic if they start telling everyone....there is a reason why kaltenborn is going public with this desire and that's not because a journo asked if cashstrapped independent poor little sauber would like a sugar daddy?

As for kaltenborn still running sauber, she pulled the vdg stunt with the full support of peter sauber. So who is going to fire her? I rather doubt she is going to find new partners, sponsors and drivers with her attitude to contracts...

whoops! I'd better change my tack 

[taran]

whoops! I'd better change my tack 

Try playing hard to get

[Seanspeed]

But its rather pathetic if they start telling everyone....there is a reason why kaltenborn is going public with this desire and that's not because a journo asked if cashstrapped independent poor little sauber would like a sugar daddy?

She's just talking about it. She's not actively seeking out media to tell everyone. Nothing pathetic about it.

They'll be in active talks behind the scenes with manufacturers. I don't think she's as deluded as your average forumer on how this stuff works, as if her idea of securing a partnership is through interviews with Autosport journalists....

[taran]

She's just talking about it. She's not actively seeking out media to tell everyone. Nothing pathetic about it.They'll be in active talks behind the scenes with manufacturers. I don't think she's as deluded as your average forumer on how this stuff works, as if her idea of securing a partnership is through interviews with Autosport journalists....

Would this business savvy kaltenborn be the same legal savvy kaltenborn who thought she could defraud vdg without consequences?

Talk about deluded......

[Seanspeed]

Would this business savvy kaltenborn be the same legal savvy kaltenborn who thought she could defraud vdg without consequences?

Talk about deluded......

So is that the only argument? Is that driver fiasco going to basically forever mean that she's incompetent and has no idea what she's doing in anything relating to her role as TP at Sauber?

Just feels like a cheap shot at this point.

[Talisman]

How about Williams? That's a team that wants to stay independent.......

Once again, there is nothing wrong with teams wanting partners. Every team does. Most guys want a girlfriend too. But its rather pathetic if they start telling everyone....there is a reason why kaltenborn is going public with this desire and that's not because a journo asked if cashstrapped independent poor little sauber would like a sugar daddy?

As for kaltenborn still running sauber, she pulled the vdg stunt with the full support of peter sauber. So who is going to fire her? I rather doubt she is going to find new partners, sponsors and drivers with her attitude to contracts...

 

If a manufacturer wanted a tie up with Williams they would go for it like a shot.

 

McLaren also wants to stay independent, thats why they lost Mercedes and before that, Honda.  Didn't stop them from jumping into bed with Honda a second time did it.

 

If Kaltenborn is going to be unable to find new partners, sponsors and drivers do you really think a savvy guy like Sauber would keep her on?  Think about it.

 

She was asked a question, she could have refused to answer but gave a rather dull generic reply that could have come from any of the lower midfield teams.  For this, you're claiming that she's pathetic and touting for partners.  I suspect this says more about your attitude towards her rather than her attitude towards manufacturers.

Edited by Talisman, 18 August 2015 - 09:40.

[automovelbrilhante]

 

If Kaltenborn is going to be unable to find new partners, sponsors and drivers do you really think a savvy guy like Sauber would keep her on?  Think about it.

 

You must be aware that Kaltenborn was given a 33% equity in the team by Sauber. He either thinks the team is worth [less than] nothing or that she's God. I'm inclined to think it's the former.

For the "average forumer"    suggesting she wouldn't seal a deal with a constructor though a journalist: No, probably not, but she might advertise there by entertaining the idea. If you don't understand the power of media, then you're out of your depth. Even what you say around here isn't meaningless. 

Edited by automovelbrilhante, 18 August 2015 - 10:58.

[Talisman]

You must be aware that Kaltenborn was given a 33% equity in the team by Sauber. He either thinks the team is worth [less than] nothing or that she's God. I'm inclined to think it's the former.

 

But a manager who will not get sponsors, drivers or partners as taran suggests is a death sentence.  Equity or not she would have been shown the door had she really been regarded as incompetent.  Given Sauber's value at the moment I doubt it would cost much to buy her out either.

Edited by Talisman, 18 August 2015 - 13:23.

[pdac]

Is that driver fiasco going to basically forever mean that she's incompetent and has no idea what she's doing in anything relating to her role as TP at Sauber?
 

 

Maybe not  that she's incompetent but surely that she's someone you don't really want to do business with.

[Nemo1965]

I like that the OP uses the plural in the thread title. Seems appropriate...

[Fisico54]

Maybe not that she's incompetent but surely that she's someone you don't really want to do business with.

Why? Because she made a deal to give her the team the funding it needed when their plans unexpectedly were changed? F1 principals have always played this game with drivers, only difference is VDG didn't back down.
She wouldn't be getting this level of abuse if she was a man.

[DutchQuicksilver]

I think she's hoping BMW will return. Have to say, I hope that as well. That team was so much more fun to watch when they were competitive as BMW Sauber F1. Ever since BMW left them, it's been a boring team, the 2012 season aside.

[pdac]

Why? Because she made a deal to give her the team the funding it needed when their plans unexpectedly were changed? F1 principals have always played this game with drivers, only difference is VDG didn't back down.
She wouldn't be getting this level of abuse if she was a man.

 

Exactly. Because she did what she felt were legitimate business deals that were, in fact, independently judged to be invalid. From a perspective partner or client point of view, would make her someone you really don't want to do business with.

[Fisico54]

Exactly. Because she did what she felt were legitimate business deals that were, in fact, independently judged to be invalid. From a perspective partner or client point of view, would make her someone you really don't want to do business with.

That's not what I said in anyway. Teams have always dumped and signed drivers for already filled seats.

[pdac]

That's not what I said in anyway. Teams have always dumped and signed drivers for already filled seats.

 

And all I was saying was that people who might think of doing deals with Sauber might be put off by this aspect of her past if she's the one that they are talking to.

[CoolBreeze]

What's wrong with her fishing? They have been struggling for years now. 

[CoolBreeze]

I think she's hoping BMW will return. Have to say, I hope that as well. That team was so much more fun to watch when they were competitive as BMW Sauber F1. Ever since BMW left them, it's been a boring team, the 2012 season aside.

 

Personally, i don't. They literally ran away. And left hundreds facing job cuts. Toyota left too, but only after apologising hundreds of times i think. Honda left, but they funded Ross Brawn for one more year at least. 

 

BMW ran away and tried to sell the team to some fishy middle eastern consortium. 

[LuckyStrike1]

Will they try and sign up two manufacturers at the same time perhaps? 

[Leftturnonly]

Will they try and sign up two manufacturers at the same time perhaps? 

Wow, such a new and innovative joke. Did you think of it yourself?

[CoolBreeze]

^What's so funny? You do know most of the car companies own each other..So who knows. 

[Jimisgod]

So is that the only argument? Is that driver fiasco going to basically forever mean that she's incompetent and has no idea what she's doing in anything relating to her role as TP at Sauber?

Just feels like a cheap shot at this point.

Welcome to reality. She almost had the team forced off the grid via a court injunction at what turned out to be their only track where they made a decent points haul.

And even despite that the look like the most at peril of falling behind McLaren. Plus a 0 points haul in 2014.

She'd be the last team principal you'd want anything to do with.

[BRG]

She'd be the last team principal you'd want anything to do with.

Well, apart from Christian Horner, any of the Ferrari bosses including Enzo, Bernie Ecclestone at Brabham, Max Mosley at March, Tom Walkinshaw, Flavio Briatore, Louis Stanley, Eddie Jordan, Vijay Mallya, Tony Fernandes and Uncle Ron Dennis and all.

 

They don't call it the Piranha Club for nothing

[Mohican]

I agree that Kaltenborn gets a bad rap on this forum in part because she is a woman - not operating in the UK does not help.
As for supposedly watertight contracts etc, what about - just as examples - Trulli at Caterham or Glock at Virgin/Marussia ?
Or indeed, Pic at Lotus ?

As for vdG, forget him. He chose to walk away with the money.
The Dutch should concentrate on Verstappen who looks the real deal.

[zanquis]

Well they have not used Renault engines, Renault is looking to buy... maybe a option here.

[George Costanza]

They already did with BMW.... and that wasn't a good result, except for 2008 season.

 

Edited by George Costanza, 22 August 2015 - 16:38.

[shonguiz]

Their only bad season with bmw was 2009, all the rest was good with solid steady progress.

[David Lightman]

It's a shame she gets such abuse still. Eddie Jordan was proved in court to be a lying shitbag yet he still has a career on TV, despite being a halfwit who has the linguistic skills of Pingu.

[pdac]

It's a shame she gets such abuse still. Eddie Jordan was proved in court to be a lying shitbag yet he still has a career on TV, despite being a halfwit who has the linguistic skills of Pingu.

 

You do understand what she did, don't you? She was very lucky that she's not sitting in jail right now.

[MortenF1]

You're thinking about the "parallel" contracts?

[LuckyStrike1]

Wow, such a new and innovative joke. Did you think of it yourself?

 

No, I googled it. 

[Mohican]

You do understand what she did, don't you? She was very lucky that she's not sitting in jail right now.

So are, for various reasons, Messrs Ecclestone, Briatore, Symonds, Mosley, etc, etc.
You readly need to drop this Sauber-bashing. Fact of the matter is that there was a settlement, and GvdG chose to walk with the money. Forget him.

[pdac]

So are, for various reasons, Messrs Ecclestone, Briatore, Symonds, Mosley, etc, etc.
You readly need to drop this Sauber-bashing. Fact of the matter is that there was a settlement, and GvdG chose to walk with the money. Forget him.

 

Not Sauber-bashing in the least - in fact I like the Sauber team a lot. I used to admire Monisha too, but she's demonstrated that she is far from trustworthy. It seems that Sauber are happy to continue their relationship with her and I don't know details, so I will accept that, I still feel that a lot of people who might potentially do business with Sauber miight be put off because they would have to watch everything and may have to be prepared to go to court once they sign contracts.

 

I agree that others in F1 have similar reputations, but that doesn't minimise what she has done. Moreover, it's not about GvdG, it's about how she responded to the court system and the contempt she showed to the Australian judicial system. That is not really someone who I see as a one that I would want to do business with.

Edited by pdac, 23 August 2015 - 11:35.

[taran]

So are, for various reasons, Messrs Ecclestone, Briatore, Symonds, Mosley, etc, etc.
You readly need to drop this Sauber-bashing. Fact of the matter is that there was a settlement, and GvdG chose to walk with the money. Forget him.

 

You Sir, must have the same set of lose morals Sauber has for you to defend them.

The case was in open court and we all could see that Sauber was full of ****. VdG didn't chose to walk with the money, he chose to allow the team to survive after Kaltenborn said she would not reinstate him at any cost. He could have forced her out and himself in the team. Instead, his sponsors accepted a lot of money instead. VdG has shown far more class than Sauber (the entire team and that oh so precious Peter Sauber himself) and you as you blame the victim.

 

As far as I am concerned, there can't be enough Sauber bashing. That's the only way there will be some accountability by that team because we all saw their press release after VdG let them off the hook.