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Team radio clampdown and possible telemetry clampdown for 2016


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#1 Marklar

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 12:36

Update: 21st July 2016

A. Restrictions on team-to-driver communications applicable with immediate effect
These restrictions will apply :
- To all communications to the driver including, but not limited to, radio and pit boards.
- At all times the car is out of the pit lane with the engine running and the driver on board (with the exception of the slowing down lap once the driver has crossed the Line at the end of the race).
The following is a list of the permitted messages. Any other message, including any of those below which we suspect has been used as a coded message for a different purpose (including a prompt to a driver), is likely to be considered a breach of Article 27.1 of the Sporting Regulations and will be reported to the stewards accordingly.
1. Acknowledgement that a driver’s message has been heard, this may include repeating the message back to the driver for the sole purpose of confirmation.
2. Indication of a problem with the car, any message of this sort must include an irreversible
instruction to enter the pits to rectify the problem or to retire the car.
3. Information concerning damage to the bodywork of the car.
4. Instructions to select driver defaults, this must be for the sole purpose of mitigating loss of function of a sensor, actuator or controller whose degradation or failure was not detected and handled by the on-board software 
It will be the responsibility of any team giving any such instruction to satisfy the FIA technical
delegate that this was the case and that any new setting chosen in this way did not enhance the performance of the car beyond that prior to the loss of function (see Article 8.2.4 of the Technical
Regulations).
5. Indication of a problem with a competitor’s car.
6. Marshalling information (yellow flag, red flag, blue flag, safety car, virtual safety car, race start aborted or other similar instructions or information from race control). This would include a reminder to switch off the SC “delta time” function after crossing the first safety car line twice from the time the SC was deployed.
7. Passing on messages from race control (this would include a countdown to the start of the formation lap and telling a driver that the last car has taken up position on the grid at the end of the formation lap).
8. Wet track, oil or debris in certain corners.
9. Weather information.
10. Information concerning the driver’s own lap time or sector times.
11. Lap time of a competitor.
12. Helping with warning of traffic and gaps to other competitors during a practice session or race.
13. Instructions to swap position with other drivers.
14. Number of laps or time remaining during a practice session or race.
15. Position during a practice session or race.
16. “Push hard”, “push now”, “you will be racing xx”, “take it easy” or similar (you are reminded about suspected use of coded messages when giving these messages or any words of encouragement).
17. When to enter the pits (or go to the grid during reconnaissance laps), any message of this sort may only be used if the driver is to enter the pits on that lap. Having been told when to enter the pits drivers may also be told to stay out if there has been a change of circumstances. Drivers may also be told what to do once they have entered the pits, e.g. “drive through”, “stop in the box”, “practice pit stop”, “into the garage” or similar information related to the pit stop.
18. The driver’s own race pit stop strategy as well as those of his competitors, this is limited to the timing of pit stops and which tyres will be (or have been) used. For the avoidance of doubt, no car or power unit set up may be included in any such strategy discussion.
19. Reminders to use the pit speed limiter, change tyre settings to match the tyres fitted to the car or to check for white lines, bollards, weighbridge lights when entering or leaving the pits.
20. Driving breaches by team driver or competitor, e.g. missing chicanes, running off track, time penalty will be applied etc.
21. Notification that DRS is enabled or disabled.
22. Dealing with a DRS system failure.
23. Oil transfer.
 
B. Restrictions on team-to-driver communications applicable from the Belgian Grand Prix onwards
As Section A but with the following change :
4. Instructions to select driver defaults, this must be for the sole purpose of mitigating loss of
function of a sensor, actuator or controller whose degradation or failure was not detected and
handled by the on-board software.
It will be the responsibility of any team giving any such instruction to satisfy the FIA technical
delegate that any new setting chosen in this way did not enhance the performance of the car
beyond that prior to the loss of function (see Article 8.2.4 of the Technical Regulations).
The remaining Sections will be re-numbered accordingly.
 
C. Driver torque demand map freeze when the car is on the track
1. From the beginning of qualifying changes to the driver torque demand map will be inhibited when the car is on the track. This will exclude the portion of the map below 5% throttle pedal that may be adjusted for engine braking or power unit management.
2. The ability for the torque coordinator to change the min and max lines of the driver torque demand map will be retained to match the power unit operating envelope.
3. A command from race control will unfreeze the driver torque demand map selection if weather conditions demand it. The map will be frozen again for each individual car after he has pitted and left the pit lane or when the race control command is removed.
4. Only a single throttle pedal shaping map will be retained.
 
D. Clutch control
1. Unless a clearly identified fault arises during the start procedure, the driver may only use one hand to operate a single clutch pull-paddle for the start. This will however not preclude the fitting of a second pull-paddle but only one may be used for the start itself. Where two paddles are fitted no interaction between them or the associated SECU inputs will be permitted and, furthermore, competitors must be able to demonstrate beyond any doubt that each of the paddles may only be operated with only one hand. Each competitor is required to submit details of their steering wheel designs to the FIA for approval, particular attention should be given to demonstrating compliance with Article 9.2 of the Technical Regulations.
2. A clutch torque controller will be implemented in the standard ECU software with a target race use in 2017. It may be used for validation during 2016 tests and free practice sessions. Associated with the clutch torque controller, the shape of the clutch paddle to target map will be standardised, or at least restricted in order to enforce a minimum gradient over a defined range.
[/quote]


Edited by Marklar, 21 July 2016 - 14:59.


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#2 goldenboy

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 12:43

There is plenty of info in there they are allowed to talk about so not really too drastic. If they wanted to really change things up there are probably a few they could delete from that list to be honest!

#3 BlinkyMcSquinty

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 13:26

Glaring by it's omission are the numerous engine and other settings to manage the engine/ERS and conserve fuel.

 

And the limitations on live telemetry is welcome. If a driver's brakes and tires aren't up to temperature, it would be nice that the driver is forced to recognize and compensate all by himself instead of being held by the hand and carefully instructed. That would make safety car restarts very interesting.



#4 midgrid

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 13:36

If I understand it correctly, only the first six points are permitted in the window between leaving the garage on race morning (when the driver is in the car), so this prevents teams from helping with the start procedure or with detailed pre-race tactics.

#5 Marklar

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 13:40

If I understand it correctly, only the first six points are permitted in the window between leaving the garage on race morning (when the driver is in the car), so this prevents teams from helping with the start procedure or with detailed pre-race tactics.

they are stil allowed to talk on the grid

#6 PayasYouRace

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 14:38

It looks fine, but I'm sure there's a lot of grey areas.

 

Personally I'd like to see everything banned except voice transmissions only. Car data would be downloaded on return to the pits. It's the live telemetry that's the source of the coaching. You'd be able to talk about anything you want, but you wouldn't have the live detailed car data to coach the driver with.



#7 jonpollak

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 15:02

It looks fine, but I'm sure there's a lot of grey areas.

 

Personally I'd like to see everything banned except voice transmissions only. Car data would be downloaded on return to the pits. It's the live telemetry that's the source of the coaching. You'd be able to talk about anything you want, but you wouldn't have the live detailed car data to coach the driver with.

 

I love grey areas...

Let's see who and what is said to push the boundaries of this nebulous ruling.

For instance..The words ' Ice Creams' could be code ya know...

I am aware of a few code words used in the past to get around these kinds of things.

 

Jp


Edited by jonpollak, 20 August 2015 - 15:05.


#8 Marklar

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 15:08

I love grey areas...

Let's see who and what is said to push the boundaries of this nebulous ruling.

For instance..The words ' Ice Creams' could be code ya know...

I am aware of a few code words used in the past to get around these kinds of things.

 

Jp

Something like that?

 

Edit: Found a different one

 


Edited by Marklar, 20 August 2015 - 15:18.


#9 jonpollak

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 15:11

geez..

For all the threads you start one would think you'd know how to link to a video...

 

BTW..It dunny woik.

Jp



#10 Marklar

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 15:13

geez..

For all the threads you start one would think you'd know how to link to a video...

 

BTW..It dunny woik.

Jp

I know how to embed a youtube video, but it seems not to work for dailymotion   ;)



#11 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 17:54

"22.     Change of front wing position at the next pit stop."

 

What is this?



#12 Marklar

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:01

"22.Change of front wing position at the next pit stop."

What is this?

When they change the tyres at the pitstop they are changing the position of the front wing (higher/lower) if they are using a different commpound or if track condition have changed. They are doing this for getting the balance right

#13 loki

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:02

32 "Fernando is faster than you.  Can you confirm you understood that message?"

 

 

More rules for things that don't need fixing...



#14 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:06

32 "Fernando is faster than you.  Can you confirm you understood that message?"

 

 

More rules for things that don't need fixing...

Agreed would be easier just to tell FOM not to broadcast the offending or coaching messages, problem solved.



#15 Nonesuch

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:12

The people checking these things will be the same men that have done such a bang up job enforcing the other FIA regulations.

 

You know, simple stuff like illegal holes in floors, team-orders, safety of marshals, track limits and the like. :stoned:

 

Anyway; one wonders why any of the teams would agree to have these people meddle in their affairs to such a degree. How is it the business of the race director and his stewards what drivers say to their engineers and vice versa?


Edited by Nonesuch, 20 August 2015 - 18:14.


#16 noikeee

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:20

I still think this over-regulation of radio messages is dumb. How the **** is the race engineer going to remember whether what he's about to say is filed under rule 14 or 36 or 27? What if there's some other random thing they need to talk about that isn't in the list, and isn't harmful? It's just.... a total mess.

 

As for telemetry it's a bit more of an objective thing, and I guess it'll be positive for the racing, but I reckon sooner or later they're going to have a crash that could've been prevented by whatever telemetry channels they banned.



#17 Otaku

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:29

I still think this over-regulation of radio messages is dumb. How the **** is the race engineer going to remember whether what he's about to say is filed under rule 14 or 36 or 27? What if there's some other random thing they need to talk about that isn't in the list, and isn't harmful? It's just.... a total mess.

 

As for telemetry it's a bit more of an objective thing, and I guess it'll be positive for the racing, but I reckon sooner or later they're going to have a crash that could've been prevented by whatever telemetry channels they banned.

 

This.

 

Just ban 100% radio communication to the pits. Have only 1 channel shared by all the drivers where the race director can give instructions about abnormal situations. Only him can talk to drivers, all of them at the same time.



#18 Buttoneer

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:35

This.
 
Just ban 100% radio communication to the pits. Have only 1 channel shared by all the drivers where the race director can give instructions about abnormal situations. Only him can talk to drivers, all of them at the same time.

The radio is a safety device. It allows teams to communicate to drivers about things that could potentially kill them, or prevent them from killing someone else. The cars should not be allowed on the circuit without a working radio or other means of immediate communication.

#19 Fastcake

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:42

The people checking these things will be the same men that have done such a bang up job enforcing the other FIA regulations.

 

You know, simple stuff like illegal holes in floors, team-orders, safety of marshals, track limits and the like. :stoned:

 

Anyway; one wonders why any of the teams would agree to have these people meddle in their affairs to such a degree. How is it the business of the race director and his stewards what drivers say to their engineers and vice versa?

 

When they're at the race track, pretty much everything that happens during a session is the FIA's business.



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#20 sabjit

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:42

I appear to be the only person who thinks that anything should be allowed to said over the radio except specifically driver coaching (like lines and stuff) whilst instructions about engine modes and other controls on the wheel should be allowed to happen.

 

I also would like to challenge those who want complete radio clampdown and telemetry clamp down. Some of you are probably the same people who want pure racing and I would say that should radio and telemetry be completely banned then we say goodbye to race drivers and hello to engineers who sit in the car, drive it round but their main job is to keep the car going. 



#21 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:50

When they change the tyres at the pitstop they are changing the position of the front wing (higher/lower) if they are using a different commpound or if track condition have changed. They are doing this for getting the balance right

 

Thanks, I was confused by the wording, "position".



#22 Riverside

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 18:58

How About this kind of message? 

 

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTZSnqPp2NU



#23 Marklar

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 19:03

I appear to be the only person who thinks that anything should be allowed to said over the radio except specifically driver coaching (like lines and stuff) whilst instructions about engine modes and other controls on the wheel should be allowed to happen.

I also would like to challenge those who want complete radio clampdown and telemetry clamp down. Some of you are probably the same people who want pure racing and I would say that should radio and telemetry be completely banned then we say goodbye to race drivers and hello to engineers who sit in the car, drive it round but their main job is to keep the car going.

My idea was always to bann the telemetry for the team. Not just the live telemetry but also not given the teams accees to the recorded telemetry (an oportunity for cost-cutting). On the steering wheel the driver should have warning lights to see if he has a critical problem with the tyre/engine etc. Furthermore they should bann all engine and harvest and magic and whatever pointless button they have (for me brake balance and diff settings are ok). Team radio is allowed - the team has anyway no telemetry - and the driver can ask for advice. Whatever he want to ask. The team cant give him anyway accurate advices.

#24 Nonesuch

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 19:05

When they're at the race track, pretty much everything that happens during a session is the FIA's business.

 

That's certainly the position the FIA would take. People in their position very rarely voluntarily do less.

 

Which is why I started my wondering-aloud with the question why the teams are going along with this.

 

As so often, the teams are going to get exactly what they deserve for putting up with this nonsense.


 



#25 ANF

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 19:24

I still think this over-regulation of radio messages is dumb. How the **** is the race engineer going to remember whether what he's about to say is filed under rule 14 or 36 or 27? What if there's some other random thing they need to talk about that isn't in the list, and isn't harmful? It's just.... a total mess.

I think they know what they are allowed to say. The first radio clampdown actually got rid of the most ridiculous examples of driver coaching where engineers instructed the drivers to change gear/apex/line through a particular corner.



#26 pdac

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 20:24

Here's some revisions I'd prefer to see:

 

 

1.       Indication of a critical problem with the car, e.g. puncture warning or damage.

2.       Indication of a problem with a competitor’s car.

3.       Instruction to enter the pit lane in order to fix or retire the car.

4.       Marshalling information (yellow flag, red flag, race start aborted or other similar instructions or information from race control).

5.       Wet track, oil or debris in certain corners.

6.       Instructions to swap position with other drivers.

7.       Acknowledgement that a driver message has been heard.

8.       Lap or sector time detail.

9.       Lap time detail of a competitor.

10.     Gaps to a competitor during a practice session or race.

11.     “Push hard”, “push now”, “you will be racing xx” or similar.

12.     Helping with warning of traffic during a practice session or race.

13.     Giving the gaps between cars in qualifying so as to better position the car for a clear lap.

14.     Tyre choice at the next pit stop.

15.     Number of laps a competitor has done on a set of tyres during a race.

16.     Tyre specification of a competitor.

17.     Information concerning a competitor’s likely race strategy.

18.     Safety Car window.

19.     Driving breaches by team driver or competitor, e.g. missing chicanes, running off track, time penalty will be applied etc.

20.     Notification that DRS is enabled or disabled.

21.     Dealing with a DRS system failure.

22.     Change of front wing position at the next pit stop.

23.     Oil transfer.

24.     When to enter the pits.

25.     Reminders to check for white lines, bollards, weighbridge lights when entering or leaving the pits.

26.     Reminders about track limits.

27.     Passing on messages from race control.

28.     Information concerning damage to the car.

29.     Number of laps remaining.

30.     Test sequence information during practice sessions, e.g. aero-mapping.

31.     Weather information.

 



#27 mclarensmps

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Posted 20 August 2015 - 21:23

31 topics make for an ample palette for code language. Non factor rules "clampdown"


Edited by mclarensmps, 20 August 2015 - 21:23.


#28 milestone 11

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 18:14

Typical FIA rhetorical bullshit that any lawyer could drive horses and a coach through, "may not" is not semantically viable. What the hell is wrong with "must not".

#29 ViMaMo

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 09:08

This is such a mess. Let them do what they are doing. Let them coach the driver, why care? It happens in boxing, team sports, etc.



#30 Peat

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 09:13

Ban radio's, or don't. 

Just don't try and do both. 



#31 Buttoneer

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Posted 26 August 2015 - 09:41

Do, or do not.

There is no try.

#32 Marklar

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 10:06

Autosport @autosport 

Expect more errors and strategic mistakes from drivers in 2016 due to #F1 radio clampdown http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123148/wolff-radio-ban-will-create-errors 

 

 

"Because of the new regulations, we are so much more restricted in passing on information to the drivers during the race," said Wolff.
 

"Strategy, engine-mode deployment, tyre choices, even up to a point pit stops, a lot will be down to the driver to decide. Things will be less optimised by algorithms and engineers, and it will give room for error.What I like is that it is the driver who will be taking decisions, and not remote controlled from the garage."

"It will now come down to greater planning before a race, down to intelligence to remember what that planning was, and down to intelligence and instinct to do the right thing at the right time."
 

"They will have less understanding of what's going on in the car because the driver will be on the radio less. But it will create more error, therefore more variability in the result which is important for the sport."

 

 



#33 Jon83

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 10:25

Have no issue whatsoever with team radio and don't know why so many people do.



#34 superden

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 10:42

One way comms only from pitwall to driver. This can include, for safety only:

1. Serious car issues requiring retirement
2. Debris or fluids on track
3. Warning of an accident
4. Confirmation the pit box is occupied
5. Confirmation of pit request

No driver needs to know anything else. If the guy in front is close enough to catch, they should see that without being told, if they can't they should pick a new career. If the brakes or tyres are on the limit, they should be able to feel that, so add a button to the steering wheel that indicates to the pit that they want a tyre change on the next lap. If a driver feels sick, they should pull over and retire. If the DRS isn't working, they shouldn't need some plum on the radio to tell them.

Motor racing managed for a long time without this constant coaching bullshit by way of talent and experience. If the cars are now 'too complicated' for a driver to race alone, then they are too bloody complicated and need reigning in.

Pit boards ... anyone remember these?

As with everything in F1, instead of addressing the issue, they just create additional bureaucracy, confusion and annoyance by adding a second tier problem.

Edited by superden, 07 March 2016 - 11:33.


#35 yasushi888

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 10:49

So whats the punishment for saying something you shouldn't have? Grid penalties? Drive throughs? Time penalties? Whatever it is it's just going to get messy and turn into the usual farce.



#36 OO7

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:03

This is such a mess. Let them do what they are doing. Let them coach the driver, why care? It happens in boxing, team sports, etc.

People actually believe we will see more overtaking and mixed races because of it.  Such will be a very rare occurrence in my opinion.

 

BTW, in Indycar is there or has there ever been a limit on what can be communicated (verbally not via telemetry) between driver, pit and vice versa?


Edited by OO7, 07 March 2016 - 11:05.


#37 jonpollak

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:10

Nope

#38 JeePee

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:20

So whats the punishment for saying something you shouldn't have? Grid penalties? Drive throughs? Time penalties? Whatever it is it's just going to get messy and turn into the usual farce.

The same punishment you get when changing helmet design.



#39 superden

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:22

The same punishment you get when changing helmet design.


So, nothing of note then.

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#40 Timstr11

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:23

This will lead to drivers making uninformed decisions.

I don't know what's so exciting about that.

 

There's no way a driver can know what's happening behind or ahead of him if nobody tells him.


Edited by Timstr11, 07 March 2016 - 11:28.


#41 OO7

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:27

Nope

I thought not.



#42 jules153

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:30

Have no issue whatsoever with team radio and don't know why so many people do.

 

Because it can give an advantage to a less skilful driver.

 



#43 Jon83

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:30

A bit laughable that Toto is now all for drivers making decisions considering when you think back to some of the tactics deployed last season by Mercedes (i.e. not letting their drivers race, identical strategies etc)



#44 Jon83

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:31

Because it can give an advantage to a less skilful driver.

 

 

Not a chance.



#45 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:35

Analysis: The full scope of F1's 2016 radio ban: bit.ly/1LLxmh8 #F1



#46 superden

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:36

This will lead to drivers making uninformed decisions.
I don't know what's so exciting about that.

There's no way a driver can know what's happening behind or ahead of him if nobody tells him.


Goodness me, just how did drivers manage before constant hand holding on the radio? Uninformed decisions? Inability to judge a situation using experience and raw talent? If this sort of attitude is the future, I weep for motor racing.

Edited by superden, 07 March 2016 - 11:40.


#47 RedOne

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:43

F1 continues to make a fool out of itself

#48 jules153

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 11:47

Not a chance

Of course it can


Edited by jules153, 07 March 2016 - 11:48.


#49 jules153

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:02

Driver A goes round a damp (drying) circuit at 1:20, driver B goes round in 1:15. Driver A's team work out the sectors/corners driver A is losing time and inform him. Driver A can alter his driving and go faster. Therefore radio communication has allowed the less skilful driver to go faster, thus giving him an advantage.



#50 OO7

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:06

The issue isn't over use of radio comms or hand holding, the issue is the cars (too aero sensitive) and the costs involved in F1.