Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Rate the Belgian F1 Grand Prix!


  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

Poll: Rate the Belgian F1 Grand Prix! (179 member(s) have cast votes)

Rate the Belgian F1 Grand Prix!

  1. 1 (lowest) (8 votes [4.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.47%

  2. 2 (8 votes [4.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.47%

  3. 3 (10 votes [5.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.59%

  4. 4 (13 votes [7.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.26%

  5. 5 (30 votes [16.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.76%

  6. 6 (41 votes [22.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.91%

  7. 7 (45 votes [25.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.14%

  8. 8 (17 votes [9.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.50%

  9. 9 (4 votes [2.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.23%

  10. 10 (highest) (3 votes [1.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.68%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#51 MasterOfCoin

MasterOfCoin
  • Member

  • 4,991 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 24 August 2015 - 12:31

Actual overtaking? You're calling this fake-push-a-button-drive-by-BS an actual overtake? Seriously? That's sad.

Fake is a subjective term, If DRS is fake what do you call these Pirrelli tyres, Strat mode 7 on the engines, and paddle shifters. the bottom line is it's the same for all drivers if you don't want to be overtaken with DRS drive faster, and if you can't, it probably means you didn't belong in that position in the first place.



Advertisement

#52 Nonesuch

Nonesuch
  • Member

  • 15,870 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 24 August 2015 - 12:40

... it's the same for all drivers if you don't want to be overtaken with DRS drive faster ...

 

:confused:

 

The entire idea behind DRS is to give an advantage to the chasing driver while denying that advantage to the leading driver.

 

This is also precisely why the J-switch/F-duct that the teams created in 2010 was interesting and DRS, which took its place, is not.

 

In the spirit of F1 not being a (barely faster than GP2) spec-series, the J-switch/F-duct actually allowed the drivers and teams to use these systems however and whenever they wanted.



#53 Garndell

Garndell
  • Member

  • 1,287 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 24 August 2015 - 12:43

Best Driver: Grosjean - Drove a very good race and may have pushed Seb into an error had Seb not lost a tyre.
Worst Driver: Massa - He just looked a little lost, although the normally fast in a straight line Williams looked sluggish through Eau Rouge all race.
Best Team: Mercedes - A 1-2 despite a slow start for both (compounded by Rosberg dropping back to 5th) and nobody looking like catching them.
Best Overtake:  Massa & Perez on the stricken Vettel, nothing quite like a Ferrari sandwich.
Best Moment: Grosjean catching Vettel for third place (I suspect Vettel used full charge through Eau Rouge to stay away from DRS)
DRS & Tyres: Soft tyre lacked lifespan, you could see it going off already after 6 laps, Medium was okay and the DRS was effective enough but no more.

The Race in a Sentence: I gave it a 6 because I was there, not a great race but at least nobody got hurt.



#54 Tourgott

Tourgott
  • Member

  • 1,149 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 24 August 2015 - 12:47

Fake is a subjective term, If DRS is fake what do you call these Pirrelli tyres, Strat mode 7 on the engines, and paddle shifters. the bottom line is it's the same for all drivers if you don't want to be overtaken with DRS drive faster, and if you can't, it probably means you didn't belong in that position in the first place.

 

No, it is precisely not the same for all drivers. That's the idea of DRS. I could accept something like KERS (I actually liked it as a strategical element).


Edited by Tourgott, 24 August 2015 - 12:48.


#55 MasterOfCoin

MasterOfCoin
  • Member

  • 4,991 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 24 August 2015 - 14:35

:confused:

 

The entire idea behind DRS is to give an advantage to the chasing driver while denying that advantage to the leading driver.

 

 

But that same driver will get his/her chance on the following lap, if they can stay within the 1 sec gap, i can remember watching Schumacher charging his way up the field in Imola 2005, only to have his progress halted by not being able to get by Alonso, now i'm not saying DRS would have helped, because Imola is notoriously difficult to overtake. My position on DRS mostly has to do with wanting to see the faster cars/drivers being able to overtake, and not be stuck behind a slower car for 20 odd laps, just to have pitlane pass.



#56 Tourgott

Tourgott
  • Member

  • 1,149 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 24 August 2015 - 15:32

But that same driver will get his/her chance on the following lap, if they can stay within the 1 sec gap,

 

You know exactly that in F1 it always depends on more facts like tires, engine and so on. Also in the battle between Hakkinen/Schumacher, the fin had the much faster car at this point. The battle still was exciting. Imagine what would have happened with DRS. And that's exactly why it sucks.



#57 MasterOfCoin

MasterOfCoin
  • Member

  • 4,991 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 24 August 2015 - 15:54

You know exactly that in F1 it always depends on more facts like tires, engine and so on. Also in the battle between Hakkinen/Schumacher, the fin had the much faster car at this point. The battle still was exciting. Imagine what would have happened with DRS. And that's exactly why it sucks.

I Agree the act of overtaking is very complicated, you will have very slippy cars, cars with more horse power, cars on different tyres, which all contribute to the perception of the on track battles.



#58 Cabby

Cabby
  • Member

  • 55 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 24 August 2015 - 19:11

Best Driver: Grosjean
Worst Driver: ---
Best Team: Mercedes
Best Overtake: Verstappen
Best Moment: Start
DRS + Tyres: Drs, meh, Tyres, Kaboom!

And the race in a sentence: Decent race, but would have liked to see Ricciardo vs. Vettel and/or Grosjean vs. Vettel.



#59 Mat13

Mat13
  • Member

  • 4,032 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 24 August 2015 - 19:44

Best Driver: Large John/ Hamilton
Worst Driver: Maldonado- even his team blame him.
Best Team: Mercedes
Best Overtake: Max on Nasr (around, not on-that's a crash.)
Best Moment: Watching Rosberg cock up the start, and Vettel throw his toys out of the pram afterwards.
DRS + Tyres DRS a little too effective, but better than the alternative. Tyres were mostly full of air, occasionally in the wrong place on a Williams and sometimes in lots of bits behind a Ferrari.

I gave the race a six- not the worst this year, but really not great. I'm finding myself more excited about the return of WEC this weekend than I was about F1, which I'd forgotten about.

I don't understand the constant whining about DRS being artificial- it is not. It is a valid aerodynamic advantage; the only artificial aspect is the implementation. More DRS, I say, whenever the drivers have the balls/skill to use it.

Edited by Mat13, 24 August 2015 - 19:47.


Advertisement

#60 BlinkyMcSquinty

BlinkyMcSquinty
  • Member

  • 862 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 24 August 2015 - 19:57

Wait a second. Actually I'm pretty sure there's a third way...

 

 

Even without the actual overtake, such battles were 1000 times more exciting than this boring DRS fake overtaking crap we have today.

 

I'm very familiar with that pass, considered by many as one of the very best passes in Formula One. And it definitely was the perfect storm, a one-in-a-thousand scenario, something incredibly rare. Schumacher was successfully defending against Hakkinen, until Zonta was in exactly the right position to allow Hakkinen to go inside. It wasn't a battle, Schumacher was winning in defense. But a very rare circumstance came up, Hakkinen made the move.

 

Hey, I love great passes, to watch an attacking driver manufacture one and execute in a great display of intelligence and skill. But Formula One inhibits such actions, in the great majority of cases, unless DRS is present, it just doesn't happen. So I look at the big picture, would I rather see five good drivers get stalled out every race and not achieve what they deserve on merit, or every five races see a magnificent pass?

 

I'm not a fan of DRS, it does suck. But balanced against watching decent drivers being robbed of what they deserve, I accept it. The very last race they held at Valencia was a very good race because for once, they got the DRS zones and distances correct. A driver could manufacture a pass under DRS, but he had to fight every millimeter of the way. And that is what was wrong at Spa, they had the distances incorrect, it should have been much shorter.

 

IMO the formula for DRS is simple, but hard to make correct because the distances and zones have to be correct. The attacking driver has to be close enough, deploy his DRS, and when both cars arrive at the braking zone, be side-by-side, and may the best man win.



#61 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,281 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 24 August 2015 - 20:19

Eventhought Im against DRS but bringing up Hakkinen vs Schumi/Zonta is probably the worst example for a non-DRS overaking you can bring up: McLaren took at the pitstop the gurney flap off Hakinnens car, which is like detecting DRS....

#62 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 10,580 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 24 August 2015 - 21:32

Very boring race IMO.

 

I deleted this one off the DVR the minute it was over.

 

 



#63 AGP

AGP
  • Member

  • 113 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 25 August 2015 - 00:26

Another predictable race shame about all the cars that retired. gave it a 6. The 1.5 runners for the championship is just sad. :( (Roseberg is only .5 :lol:)  



#64 Tourgott

Tourgott
  • Member

  • 1,149 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 25 August 2015 - 04:49

Eventhought Im against DRS but bringing up Hakkinen vs Schumi/Zonta is probably the worst example for a non-DRS overaking you can bring up: McLaren took at the pitstop the gurney flap off Hakinnens car, which is like detecting DRS....

 

Did you read what I wrote? I said even without the actual overtake, such battles (and we had a lot of these back then, a lot without an overtake, just the battle!) were much more exciting than everything we have now. It was intense and thrilling just to see them fighting for every millimeter. What do we have today? Wait for the DRS zone, push the button, drive by. Fantastic  :rolleyes:



#65 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,281 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 August 2015 - 04:55

Did you read what I wrote? I said even without the actual overtake, such battles (and we had a lot of these back then, a lot without an overtake, just the battle!) were much more exciting than everything we have now. It was intense and thrilling just to see them fighting for every millimeter. What do we have today? Wait for the DRS zone, push the button, drive by. Fantastic  :rolleyes:

Yeah, I know and agree. I was just surprised by this example because it was caused by something which is working like DRS and on the other side Schumacher had a misadjustment on his rear wing which made this battle more unfair than todays DRS overtakes.

 

If you want to have fair overtakes with the current cars you need to introduce something like the push to pass button in the IndyCar (overtaking button which you can use several time during the race) or to clampdown the team radio and let the driver use the ERS-power like they want to.



#66 Kristian

Kristian
  • Member

  • 4,365 posts
  • Joined: June 05

Posted 25 August 2015 - 11:49

Too much day drinking, imo.

 

Well probably more the 6k walk to the circuit every morning then 3 days sat in blazing sun knackered me somewhat, but indeed when beer is the same price as water I'm obviously going to go for the former so that might have had sometning to do with it (3.50 Euros for a bottle of water in heat like that is ridiculous imo). 

 

But there was no way in the old days that I would have been able to doze off with a field of F1 cars constantly going by every minute..... 



#67 Jon83

Jon83
  • Member

  • 5,341 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 25 August 2015 - 11:57

Struggle to understand the rationale for scoring this GP at 7, 8, 9 or 10. But I guess we all see things differently.



#68 travbrad

travbrad
  • Member

  • 1,058 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 25 August 2015 - 23:03

But that same driver will get his/her chance on the following lap, if they can stay within the 1 sec gap, i can remember watching Schumacher charging his way up the field in Imola 2005, only to have his progress halted by not being able to get by Alonso, now i'm not saying DRS would have helped, because Imola is notoriously difficult to overtake. My position on DRS mostly has to do with wanting to see the faster cars/drivers being able to overtake, and not be stuck behind a slower car for 20 odd laps, just to have pitlane pass.

 

I agree.  I don't hate DRS in general, but it needs to be majorly tweaked depending on the circuit.  DRS actually works pretty well on a lot of circuits, but Spa isn't one of them.  Spa should have a shorter DRS zone at the very least, if not completely getting rid of it.  DRS should make it possible for drivers to overtake, because that's certainly better than watching someone stuck behind a car an entire race because the car and circuit characteristics don't allow passing.  The problem is at certain tracks DRS just makes it way too easy.  It's not necessarily passing that makes a race more exciting.  It's more exciting to see good battles where the drivers have a CHANCE to pass, but it's not inevitable.

 

As I've said in other threads I think Hungaroring has a pretty nice balance for DRS.  Hungary has produced some of the best races year after year since DRS has been introduced.  That's not something I thought I'd ever say.


Edited by travbrad, 25 August 2015 - 23:06.


#69 Scudder

Scudder
  • Member

  • 67 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 25 August 2015 - 23:25

6 points. And that includes 1 extra point just for being Spa.

 

DRS is a good thing to have at some circuits, but there are tracks which would do better than fine without it, Spa would be one of them.