213 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

For Joe Sawards blog: https://joesaward.wo...otebook-at-spa/

One intriguing rumour I did hear was that Aston Martin is still out there looking to become a sponsor of a Mercedes-engined F1 team. This might explain the rumours about Williams having a deal as Aston Martin, James Bond and Martini would all be a lovely fit if stirred but not shaken. Aston is also looking for help designing new road cars – hence the rumours of an Adrian Newey supercar with Red Bull – but one can envisage a suitable product emerging from Grove, where there was a team of engineers at Williams Advanced Engineering designing the abortive Jaguar X75 hybrid supercar. Perhaps we might see a similar concept for Aston Martin. Williams, incidentally, recently signed a £17 million contract to design and manufacture systems for General Dynamics UK’s new Scout armoured vehicle, which will be supplied to the British Army between 2017 and 2024. Having said that, at Spa I also heard the name Aston Martin associated with Force India, on the basis that the car company would get more space on the cars with the Silverstone team than it would for the same money with other teams. Vijay Mallya took the odd step of telling journalists that he is talking to Renault, which is not what F1 teams generally do when there are secret discussions going on, and so one must conclude that he let this slip in an effort to hurry up some other deal.

[Marklar]

Dont know why but I always thought that Aston Martin would fit perfectly to Force India

[Disgrace]

Aston Martin Force India would be a clumsy name for a team. I propose instead "Arce Martia."

[FullThrottleF1]

Just shorten it to "Amfi" 

[WilliamsF1Fan]

But how much better does Williams Aston Martin-i Racing Sound?  

 

Either way, it will be good to have the brand in F1 and FI deserve some good news financially, a very solid outfit even if I am petrified they'll get back in front of my lot!  

[BRG]

What a load of baloney. Last week it was Aston Martin-Red Bull, now it is Force India.  Next week, look out for Scuderia Aston Martin-Ferrari, powered by Honda. 

[charly0418]

PLEASE MAKE IT SO

[Jackmancer]

I went to India and many of the people there still hate Brits (at least in Bombay, I mean Mumbai). Having an English brand like Aston Martin combine with Force India would be weird. 

I think Williams would be a better fit. Either way, bring it on!

[DamonHillOfBeans]

Saward seems to have been hedging his bets recently, sowing so many rumours that one or two of them are bound to come true leading to his "told you so" moment. 

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Indian Aston Martin Force

[Chick0]

Apart from Aston Martin bringing money to F1, i see it all being hollow and pointless as they would have nothing to do with the engineering side of things. 

[R Soul]

They should form a joint entry with Volkswagen.

[taran]

Or team up with Sauber: The Aston Martin BMW.Sauber - Ferrari with 5% Mercedes............Kaltenborn must be salivating by the thought of that many manufacturers signed up to her team at the same time.

[CoolBreeze]

'Force Martin'.

 

And the drivers will be known as Martians. 

[Peter0Scandlyn]

Yeah. And they also couldn't. And won't.

[Dalin80]

They already spend a lot on having a great presence in sports car, GT and endurance racing, classes which allow great brand identity with road relevant technology and are currently seeing a boon in popularity. I really can't see them dropping millions to sponsor a middling team in a sport in decline just so their name could be on the side of a car which has absolutely no relevance to their brand or identity.

 

In many ways F1 is currently a bit of a PR disaster with a lot of negativity attached, I can't see why any manufacturer would want to touch it as is.

Edited by Dalin80, 26 August 2015 - 05:23.

[johnmhinds]

There have been two different teams with Lotus on them and it has made no noticeable difference to their car sales.

 

http://left-lane.com...les-data/lotus/

 

Why would Aston Martin care about sponsoring an F1 team.

Edited by johnmhinds, 26 August 2015 - 05:55.

[jimjimjeroo]

Yeah but Ferrari and Mercedes is a much better argument

[Albaforever]

It would brilliant  to have the name of Aston Martin in F1, but also it would be great to have a British driver in the seat as well, Williams or Lotus would ideal for me? 

[lustigson]

So in 2016 we may have

• Aston Martin-branded and Mercedes-engined Force Indias
• Infiniti-branded and Renault-engined Red Bulls
• Mercedes-engined Lotuses (Lotii)

[Felix]

For Joe Sawards blog: https://joesaward.wo...otebook-at-spa/

 

 

 

This really deserves a WOW thread in late August when Aston's talks with Force India (and Williams) were revealed in early July?

 

http://www.autosport....php/id/119869/

 

 

Aston Martin has had discussions with Williams and Force India as part of its evaluation of a return to Formula 1 next season, AUTOSPORT understands.

[OvDrone]

Saward, eh?

 

Yeah, I don't buy it.

[BRG]

There have been two different teams with Lotus on them and it has made no noticeable difference to their car sales.

Not to mention Spyker or Marussia.  

 

If it is a genuine 'works' team, run by the manufacturer, with cars and engines built by them, then it might convince a few punters.  Just sticking your name on a random F1 car won't.

[Giz]

It'll probably just end up being a tie in with the new bond film

[Dalin80]

If Aston really want to spend some money on racing then a new homologated GT3 / GTE chassis would be the way to go, the current line up while still mostly competitive is showing it's age and lack of development. A LMP3 entry could be interesting as well. An 'Aston Martin academy' for young British talent would be money well spent much like the Nismo/Gran Turismo academy. Hell both manufacturers already have a laughable failure of an LMP1 car in common so why not more!

[Henri Greuter]

When I think about Aston Marin being involved with purebred racing cars and their own engines I can't help but thinking about that magnificent piece of British engineering that even puts the Nissan LMP1 in the spotlight of success:  That glorious piece of British tradition and glamorous British piece of engineering we (outside Britain at least) all remember: the 2011 AMR-One. The hallowed classic British piece of pride in its glorious British Gulf Blue that required two examples to be part of the Le Mans 24 hours that year to cover a combined total of 6 (written: six) laps.

Magnificently ignored and preferrably forgotten and never mentioned by all British fans who hallow Aston Martin and all its splendid achievements over the years.. In particular by those British fans who slaughter off the Nissan and it's achievent up till now.

 

For crying out loud, I hope they stay out of F1 and concentrate on their GT program instead. Not in the least because Aston being part of F1 would be yet another life line that Bernie Ecclestone's F1 needs for enabling him to keep filling his own and CVC's wallets....

 

Henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 26 August 2015 - 17:17.

[Dalin80]

 all remember: the 2011 AMR-One.

 

For crying out loud, I hope they stay out of F1 and concentrate on their GT program instead. Not in the least because Aston being part of F1 would be yet another life line that Bernie Ecclestone's F1 needs for enabling him to keep filling his own and CVC's wallets....

 

Henri

 

The AMR was such a shame, a great looking car but an engine that had many experts scratching their heads and going 'that is a really terrible idea... Why would they do that?'

 

Tin tops is definitely their area and I agree where they should be focusing.

[BRG]

When I think about Aston Marin being involved with purebred racing cars and their own engines I can't help but thinking about that magnificent piece of British engineering....

 

Not to mention their terrible effort in 1959 with the DBR1.  Oh , wait a mo, they came first and second at Le Mans with that car in 1959.  Remind me again, when did the mighty NIssan empire win Le Mans?

 

But you are right about them needing to steer as far clear of F1 as they can.

[Victor_RO]

Remind me again, when did the mighty NIssan empire win Le Mans?

 

Please do not drag the same argument in a thread in which it does not belong.

[Henri Greuter]

Not to mention their terrible effort in 1959 with the DBR1.  Oh , wait a mo, they came first and second at Le Mans with that car in 1959.  Remind me again, when did the mighty NIssan empire win Le Mans?

 

But you are right about them needing to steer as far clear of F1 as they can.

 

 

Brilliant to compare the late 50's efforts with Le Mans efforts in the current and less recent time......

Well, since you bring up history to promote Aston and to ridicule Nissan:

Remember who built and designed the Nissans of 1997 and 1998 that failed to win the race? Who was Nissan's partner? Who designed them and who built them? Do you dare to mention the name and his nationality and the country where his company was located?

 

Going back a little further in time: The first Nimrod of the early 80's was another ultramodern British piece of engineering, something out of the seveties promoted into the 80s against brand new designed Porsches. Good thinking Aston Martin, good thinking.....

 

 

But I am glad you agree with me that Aston needs to keep out of F1. I fear that F1 would distract the efforts in GT they do right now and I prefer a well supported Endurance serie any time over F1 as it is right now and likely will remain for the foreseeable future.

 

 

Henri

[Maustinsj]

Maintain Drift, Race Soon

It's an anagram of Aston Martin Force India.

If we're talking about names, that is.

[BRG]

But I am glad you agree with me that Aston needs to keep out of F1. I fear that F1 would distract the efforts in GT they do right now and I prefer a well supported Endurance serie any time over F1 as it is right now and likely will remain for the foreseeable future.

 

I do.  And I would engage you on the other points but as we have been asked to stay on topic, I won't. 

[mclarensmps]

I went to India and many of the people there still hate Brits (at least in Bombay, I mean Mumbai). Having an English brand like Aston Martin combine with Force India would be weird. 

I think Williams would be a better fit. Either way, bring it on!

 

It depends on who you speak to, it's certainly not a prevalent thought throughout the country. Remember, India owns JLR...

[David Lightman]

ASTON FORCE

[Maustinsj]

Satan Ride Confirmation?

[micktosin]

Aston Martin is just too sleek/elegant for a team like force India.

[Henri Greuter]

I do.  And I would engage you on the other points but as we have been asked to stay on topic, I won't. 

 

 

 

Talk about thrown a life line........   Lucky you in this one.

Time to find or create another thread where you can answer my questions and fill them in for those readers who don't know the answers yet?        

 

 

Henri

[BRG]

Start one then.  

[Henri Greuter]

Start one then.  

 

 

OK. let's give the thread back to the original topic from here.

 

Henri

[V8 Fireworks]

I went to India and many of the people there still hate Brits

 

Given that Indian companies own Jaguar and Land Rover, this makes no sense.

[V8 Fireworks]

Aston Martin is just too sleek/elegant for a team like force India.

 

Force India / Spyker / Midland / Jordan is all about Buzzin Hornets dammit!

 

 

It doesn't make sense for Aston Martin to line up with such a Cartoonish team.

[FullThrottleF1]

Force India / Spyker / Midland / Jordan is all about Buzzin Hornets dammit!

 

 

It doesn't make sense for Aston Martin to line up with such a Cartoonish team.

[superden]

'Meh'

[Amphicar]

The August edition of "Car" magazine includes an article on Aston Martin, in which the new CEO, Andy Palmer is quoted as saying this:

 

"It is not normal for a car company to be unable to fund the replacements for its core products, and we currently can't. It's a downward spiral and you've got to break out of it. Your sales will drop. Soon you can't even meet your fixed costs, which for Aston Martin are extraordinarily high. Nobody will bankroll a car company forever. Aston Martin has been bankrupt seven times, and got lucky seven times. What if we don't get lucky an eighth time?. What if we go into receivership and become one of those lost British brands? I don't want to be the CEO of that company."

 

Does that sound like a company that is in the position to think about sponsoring an F1 team? Not to me it doesn't.

 

Andy Palmer has ambitious plans to rescue Aston Martin and he has a daunting to-do list - but I'm pretty sure that repeating the mistakes Dany Bagar made at Lotus isn't on it.

[LuckyStrike1]

Aston Martin has destoryed its brand before so I'm sure they can do it again 

 

 

[taran]

The August edition of "Car" magazine includes an article on Aston Martin, in which the new CEO, Andy Palmer is quoted as saying this:

 

"It is not normal for a car company to be unable to fund the replacements for its core products, and we currently can't. It's a downward spiral and you've got to break out of it. Your sales will drop. Soon you can't even meet your fixed costs, which for Aston Martin are extraordinarily high. Nobody will bankroll a car company forever. Aston Martin has been bankrupt seven times, and got lucky seven times. What if we don't get lucky an eighth time?. What if we go into receivership and become one of those lost British brands? I don't want to be the CEO of that company."

 

Does that sound like a company that is in the position to think about sponsoring an F1 team? Not to me it doesn't.

 

Andy Palmer has ambitious plans to rescue Aston Martin and he has a daunting to-do list - but I'm pretty sure that repeating the mistakes Dany Bagar made at Lotus isn't on it.

 

Dany Bahar had one thing right. Lotus was bleeding money and just building track specials and cheap, flawed road cars wasn't going to save the company. Lotus needed to sell more cars to average punters instead of just to car enthusiasts and that meant more mainstream sports cars, GT's and/or SUV's a la Porsche.

 

Obviously, trying to build 5 cars simultaneously with no budget was stupid but Lotus is on life support until the owners pull the plug and Exiges. Evoras and whatnot aren't going to save Lotus.

 

Aston Martin is facing the same reality. The old game plan of DB9 and numerous spinoffs is obviously not working to the point that they don't have the money to build a replacement. So they can either double down, try for sufficient buzz that a new owner/investor appears or that the aging DB9's sell again or gently fade away.

 

Is F1 the best option? Perhaps not, but racing in GT and Le Mans hasn't done much for them apparently. So what would you have the CEO do to get more sales without sufficient money to build a new car?

[MortenF1]

Seems some think Aston Martin are about to join the sport in the sense they're bringing hardware - they're not. It's only sponsoring. If they join.

[Amphicar]

Dany Bahar had one thing right. Lotus was bleeding money and just building track specials and cheap, flawed road cars wasn't going to save the company. Lotus needed to sell more cars to average punters instead of just to car enthusiasts and that meant more mainstream sports cars, GT's and/or SUV's a la Porsche.

 

Obviously, trying to build 5 cars simultaneously with no budget was stupid but Lotus is on life support until the owners pull the plug and Exiges. Evoras and whatnot aren't going to save Lotus.

 

Aston Martin is facing the same reality. The old game plan of DB9 and numerous spinoffs is obviously not working to the point that they don't have the money to build a replacement. So they can either double down, try for sufficient buzz that a new owner/investor appears or that the aging DB9's sell again or gently fade away.

 

Is F1 the best option? Perhaps not, but racing in GT and Le Mans hasn't done much for them apparently. So what would you have the CEO do to get more sales without sufficient money to build a new car?

I'd probably do what Andy Palmer is going to do - again quoting from that Car piece:

 

"Palmer's plan, reduced to its essentials, goes like this:

 

The first bit has been done: raising money from the shareholders to fund the new models, which Aston can't currently finance itself and which will finally give it the volumes it needs to be self-sustaining;

The sports cars will all be replaced and one more added, starting with the DB11, which will appear at Geneva next year; There will be a new Vantage by 2018 and a new Vanquish after that.

But that's still not enough to pay the bills, So here come the two really difficult, controversial tasks. First, Palmer has to add two new model types to the Aston line-up: a successor to the Lagonda saloon, which is based on the current VH architecture and capped at 200 units, wont be a problem; but a crossover, based on the DBX concept might be a harder sell. And there will be one final new model, which is currently just a proposal and won't be seen for five years, if at all."

 

No mention of throwing money he doesn't have in the direction of a mid-field F1 team as far as I can see.

[taran]

I'd probably do what Andy Palmer is going to do - again quoting from that Car piece:

 

"Palmer's plan, reduced to its essentials, goes like this:

 

The first bit has been done: raising money from the shareholders to fund the new models, which Aston can't currently finance itself and which will finally give it the volumes it needs to be self-sustaining;

The sports cars will all be replaced and one more added, starting with the DB11, which will appear at Geneva next year; There will be a new Vantage by 2018 and a new Vanquish after that.

But that's still not enough to pay the bills, So here come the two really difficult, controversial tasks. First, Palmer has to add two new model types to the Aston line-up: a successor to the Lagonda saloon, which is based on the current VH architecture and capped at 200 units, wont be a problem; but a crossover, based on the DBX concept might be a harder sell. And there will be one final new model, which is currently just a proposal and won't be seen for five years, if at all."

 

No mention of throwing money he doesn't have in the direction of a mid-field F1 team as far as I can see.

 

That seems like a Porsche blueprint and might well give the company a fighting chance. But only if they get the attention of potential buyers. Is James Bond and a bit of GT racing going to be enough? Based on past experience, the answer has to be a resounding NO!

 

Aston Martin has to perform some kind of marketing trick to get more media attention than they are currently getting. I agree with you that sponsoring FI or the like is very unlikely to work but they must do something. F1 after all gets far more eyeballs than GT racing. Only a Le Mans win would come close and Aston Martin are never going to beat Audi/Porsche/Toyota.

[BRG]

I suspect AM get more mileage from their Bond connection than they would ever get from F1.  Not that either is really playing to the potential AM buyer, who is probably closer to Bernie's Rolex wearing 80 year olds than to the F1 or Bond viewer.