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McLaren-Honda MP4-30 VI


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#3951 CPR

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 09:52

Thanks for confirming. Well I hope they learnt what they needed to know from FP2 using the newer PU.

 

Fernando's new PU was used in FP1 only. The old Spa engine was put in for FP2 and onwards.

 

Not ideal in terms of getting data but they weren't going to use it a lot anyway in that session.



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#3952 TakataDomeNSX

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 09:58

http://gptoday.com/f...pgraded_engine/

Hope.

#3953 Fatgadget

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 10:08

merc used log last year, but they changed for this year

In other words the flipfloping from log to branch exhaust is neither here nor there! :D

#3954 f1rules

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 10:11

:)



#3955 CPR

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 10:58

Not much to learn from FP this weekend.

 

If the track was a lot shorter I think we'd do relatively well here in qualifying. As it is, getting to Q2 will probably be a struggle. Grid might be slightly mixed up due to lack of running and optimal setup, which I suspect would help us a little. Race pace will likely be poor.



#3956 Fatgadget

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 11:15

Not much to learn from FP this weekend.

If the track was a lot shorter I think we'd do relatively well here in qualifying. As it is, getting to Q2 will probably be a struggle. Grid might be slightly mixed up due to lack of running and optimal setup, which I suspect would help us a little. Race pace will likely be poor.

Yes.Despite the season long testing session,A whole season of trying to rwsolve issues, the Mclaren Honda is still a dog.

#3957 kosmos

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:42

0.600 from P10, not bad at all.



#3958 Lemans

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:43

Oh, poop!



#3959 CPR

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:44

0.600 from P10, not bad at all.

 
Yeah, better than I expected really.

From McLaren Live:

“I think you've done a good job there. This was always going to be a tough circuit.”
Pit to Jenson

“Yeah. We can be happy with that result. It's not too bad.”
Jenson


Edited by CPR, 10 October 2015 - 12:45.


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#3960 chhatra

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:44

Actually one of the better sessions this year.

#3961 keshav

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:45

Disgraceful performance. McLaren needs to pull up their socks.



#3962 Lights

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:46

Still lost out to a Sauber by 4 tenths though. P13 due to Sainz not participating and other drivers failing.



#3963 chhatra

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:49

Disgraceful performance. McLaren needs to pull up their socks.


They have pulled their socks up, unfortunately the socks are full of holes and cannot be replaced until next year. Let us McLaren fans enjoy what we can.

#3964 blacky

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:49

All in all a strange quali, tyre related and not so much car related. Last run of BUT was with new tyres a 40,1, on old tyres he was nearly4 tenths faster. McLaren should have done the same strategy (at least in Q2) like everyone else: run on one set the whole Q2. 



#3965 Dalton007

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:49

2.2 off top pace. Better than expected.



#3966 Giz

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:51

You can say that about any position on the grid

#3967 Dalton007

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 13:12

Eddie Jordan bemused by Jenson's decision to stay because he thinks Honda won't improve enough next year. Prove him wrong, Ron.



#3968 nosecone

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 13:18

Expected result. full stop



#3969 MikePost

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 14:49

Alonso has the upgraded PU this weekend but the speed traps don't show much difference between the new and old, setup excluded as I have no way of knowing what differences there are between the two cars?



#3970 kosmos

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 14:51

Alonso has the upgraded PU this weekend but the speed traps don't show much difference between the new and old, setup excluded as I have no way of knowing what differences there are between the two cars?

 

 

The upgraded PU was not used today or tomorrow.



#3971 Borko

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 14:52

Alonso has the upgraded PU this weekend but the speed traps don't show much difference between the new and old, setup excluded as I have no way of knowing what differences there are between the two cars?

He doesn't have the upgraded PU. They only used it yesterday during FP1.


Edited by BorkoF2012, 10 October 2015 - 14:54.


#3972 Brazzers

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:07

The only upgrade Alonso has this weekend seems to be his PR expertise has improved since Suzuka. 



#3973 Lemans

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:19

Alonso mentioned there are a few new things on the car they are trying out for 2016.



#3974 KingTiger

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:20

Disgraceful performance. McLaren needs to pull up their socks.

 

:confused: McLaren had one of their best results in qualifying.

The upgraded PU was not used today or tomorrow.

 

I don't understand this. Why go back to the old PU?



#3975 kosmos

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:25

:confused: McLaren had one of their best results in qualifying.

 

I don't understand this. Why go back to the old PU?

 

Because they want use it in a track more favourable to the car, they used it on FP1 to test it and to get the penalties here and go clean to Austin.


Edited by kosmos, 10 October 2015 - 15:25.


#3976 CPR

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:53

Updated quali trends for Sochi.

Because it's a longer track with a lot of full throttle sections, it puts more than average demands on the MGU-H. Since the Honda one doesn't work well that basically costs us power over the lap which is why I expected our relative speeds to drop compared to Suzuka.
 
i-J4Sg6CK.png

i-DD3nZBT.png

i-PLVh25X.png

i-ZC4sTqT.png


Perhaps the most interesting thing for me is the speed at S3. This is just after a slow corner so the absolute speeds are quite low. Fernando was 13th with 168.9 kph and Jenson 16th with 164.8 kph. We can see the Red Bulls do particularly well here. There's multiple factors here including mechanical grip, tire grip and driveability. Based on Singapore maybe it shouldn't be a surprise. Hopefully it's the sort of thing that they can improve a lot by next year - top speeds are definitely important but that initial acceleration is important too.
 

I'm not expecting the race to be much fun for us. Fuel usage will be particularly bad for us and we can't take advantage of our good tire degradation, probably. Not much chance of a good result unless we're lucky with SC or there's lots of attrition.



#3977 Lemans

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:57

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/121262



#3978 CPR

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:59

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/121262

 
I was just about to post that :)
 

Quote from Jenson:

 

"We're running the car a little bit different to normal here, because there's a lot of work going into next year, so that's promising," he said.

"You take more risks with the car when you know you're not really going for points.

"You try different things and that's what we're doing this weekend, and what we'll be doing for the rest of the year.

"We're trying things all of the time, we knew this circuit would be tough so we tried different things with the set-up and it looks like they're working."


I fully support this approach :up:


Team report:
http://www.mclaren.c...lifying-report/


Edited by CPR, 10 October 2015 - 16:00.


#3979 chhatra

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 17:29

Updated quali trends for Sochi.

Because it's a longer track with a lot of full throttle sections, it puts more than average demands on the MGU-H. Since the Honda one doesn't work well that basically costs us power over the lap which is why I expected our relative speeds to drop compared to Suzuka.

i-J4Sg6CK.png

i-DD3nZBT.png

i-PLVh25X.png

i-ZC4sTqT.png


Perhaps the most interesting thing for me is the speed at S3. This is just after a slow corner so the absolute speeds are quite low. Fernando was 13th with 168.9 kph and Jenson 16th with 164.8 kph. We can see the Red Bulls do particularly well here. There's multiple factors here including mechanical grip, tire grip and driveability. Based on Singapore maybe it shouldn't be a surprise. Hopefully it's the sort of thing that they can improve a lot by next year - top speeds are definitely important but that initial acceleration is important too.

I'm not expecting the race to be much fun for us. Fuel usage will be particularly bad for us and we can't take advantage of our good tire degradation, probably. Not much chance of a good result unless we're lucky with SC or there's lots of attrition.


It could also come down to not having enough electrical assistance at the end of the lap.

For tomorrow I expect the same, make positions at the start and then lose them fairly quickly.

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#3980 Treads

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 18:20

Seems someone changed Eric's wiki for real

Edited by Treads, 10 October 2015 - 18:21.


#3981 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 18:39

Seems someone changed Eric's wiki for real

 

Latest revision as of 18:18, 10 October 2015 (edit) (undo)

125.236.153.176

 

 


OK so who here is from New Zealand? :lol:


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 10 October 2015 - 18:40.


#3982 CPR

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 18:39

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/121268
 

Alonso completed 16 laps before reverting back to a previously used power unit, albeit boasting a new turbocharger and MGU-H, for the rest of the weekend at Sochi.

After assessing the data so far, racing director Eric Boullier said: "It was very positive.

"It actually beat all the expectations on the data, the dyno measures.

"It worked as per plan, and has improved.

"So we introduced this engine here because we know it's a track layout that doesn't suit our package, and then run it from the race in the USA."

 

Same again next year please :D
 



#3983 Quickshifter

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 19:01

Qualifying Session Speed Trap: Alonso was slower than the highest top speed recorded [by Massa] in qualifying session by 17kph.

 

Around 10-11 kph down in  maximum speeds in all three intermediates.

 

There aren't many testing corners to make up time. The happy news is that  the current ICE updates tested in FP1 are delivering as expected but the not so good news is that with the circuit being significantly dependent on energy recovery and deployment as well as boasting high fuel consumption tomorrow's race is going to be a painful one. Honda are looking like they are pressing the right buttons especially in the second half of the season but the big gains are only going to come when they sort out the ERS in the preseason. Austin should be slightly better with new upgraded engine but this race is all about doing the best possible job out of a situation which is unsuitable for the package.


Edited by Quickshifter, 10 October 2015 - 19:03.


#3984 amardeep

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 19:08

Arai said: "At this circuit, on the engine itself, there has been a scheduled improvement, but total horsepower, with deployment, is still weak."

 

There you go, he's mentioned total horsepower with deployment as a different thing. Why did he do this, now we can't have 20 pages arguing about exactly what he said, what he could have meant, did he mean ICE, or ICE+ERS or ... ;-)

 

I suppose someone could argue over the word "engine" rather than ICE, and start down the engine = ICE + ERS route, it's a sign of naievty in Honda's outlook, etc etc, but no-one would do that surely ! (that's sarcasm, not an invitation to really do it, somehow I think Honda have noticed this fact !).

 

He must have been fed-up with all the misunderstanding / micro-analysis of his wording !


Edited by amardeep, 10 October 2015 - 19:11.


#3985 Quickshifter

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 19:10

Arai was pretty clear. scheduled improvement on ICE but ERS still unsorted hence the average ICE+ERS over a lap is still a weak point.



#3986 Lemans

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 19:16

There you go, he's mentioned total horsepower with deployment as a different thing. Why did he do this, now we can't have 20 pages arguing about exactly what he said, what he could have meant, did he mean ICE, or ICE+ERS or ... ;-)

 

I suppose someone could argue over the word "engine" rather than ICE, and start down the engine = ICE + ERS route, it's a sign of naievty in Honda's outlook, etc etc, but no-one would do that surely ! (that's sarcasm, not an invitation to really do it, somehow I think Honda have noticed this fact !).

 

He must have been fed-up with all the misunderstanding / micro-analysis of his wording !

 

Oh ye of little faith!



#3987 Talisman

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 19:17

So the upgrades were to the exhaust and what else?  And if the exhausts are substantially different were there associated changes to the chassis?



#3988 CPR

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 19:27

Oh ye of little faith!

 

Indeed. This is page 80 already of part VI... Part VII coming up soon!

 

 

It could also come down to not having enough electrical assistance at the end of the lap.

For tomorrow I expect the same, make positions at the start and then lose them fairly quickly.

 

On his first run on Suzuka Jenson used the wrong mode and used up the battery before the end of the lap when instead he needed to use the mode that spread out the electrical boost more evenly, since that's better for lap times. That's what I think they did here - without MGU-H harvesting the MGU-K can only run at full power for 33.3s. Since the Sochi lap requires deployment for much longer than that they probably ran the MGU-H at about 60% power in qualifying (ie about 95 hp instead of 160 hp).



#3989 chhatra

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 19:52

http://beta.autospor...8538.1441039300

Free article on the autosport website. Mods feel free to delete if inappropriate.

#3990 artista

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 20:04

Thread is close to the 4000 posts and, therefore, it is locked.
You can continue discussing the topic here: http://forums.autosp...nda-mp4-30-vii/