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IndyCar drivers lay it all on the line. F1 drivers don't. Apparently.


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#1 AustinF1

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 22:36

Or at least Preston Lerner says so. Whomever he is.

 

After Justin Wilson’s Death, What Should IndyCar Do?

 

http://www.automobil...uld-indycar-do/

 

F1 has devolved into an insanely expensive engineering exercise conducted on antiseptic race circuits between drivers who have been reduced to human surrogates for the technocrats who really run the show. There’s rarely more than a few tenths of a second between teammates, and the penalty for an on-track mistake is running wide around a corner and losing a few seconds. The start of an F1 race is a thrilling moment, but no more so than the start of a big football or baseball game. Because, ultimately, that’s all it is: another game. IndyCar racing raises the stakes to another level. When people talk about IndyCar drivers putting everything on the line, they’re not speaking metaphorically. Just ask the families of Wilson and Wheldon.

 So....Jules Bianchi. Ever heard of him? Maybe Mr. Lerner should talk to his family.

 

Shameful bit of writing imho, trying to divide the two series' drivers in that way.


Edited by AustinF1, 28 August 2015 - 04:32.


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#2 JHSingo

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 22:45

It's not a very well articulated piece of writing, but I sort of get his point.

The risks are much greater on ovals, particularly in IndyCars, than most the current Tilkedromes F1 visits. See for instance how drivers were corner cutting at Spa, at corners that you never used to be able to do that. The challenge has definitely been neutered quite a bit.

 

I also feel rather uneasy that there's this growing trend to shout 'Jules Bianchi!' whenever someone questions the bravery of F1 drivers or whatever. That was a completely freak accident, and isn't representative of the sport at all.

 

Saying that, I think it's idiotic to pitch one series against the other, and try and argue one is better simply because of how many competitors have died. That's absolutely vile.


Edited by JHSingo, 27 August 2015 - 22:48.


#3 Risil

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 22:47

Erm, where does it say that in the article?



#4 AustinF1

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 22:52

It's not a very well articulated piece of writing, but I sort of get his point.

The risks are much greater on ovals, particularly in IndyCars, than most the current Tilkedromes F1 visits. See for instance how drivers were corner cutting at Spa, at corners that you never used to be able to do that. The challenge has definitely been neutered quite a bit.

 

I also feel rather uneasy that there's this growing trend to shout 'Jules Bianchi!' whenever someone questions the bravery of F1 drivers or whatever. That was a completely freak accident, and isn't representative of the sport at all.

 

Saying that, I think it's idiotic to pitch one series against the other, and try and argue one is better simply because of how many competitors have died. That's absolutely vile.

Exactly. Yeah, I agree that oval racing is more dangerous in general than circuit racing, but it's not like the typical F1 driver isn't still facing a lot of danger. I agreed with some of what he said, but using an article about Justin Wilson and IndyCar as an opportunity to take an unsolicited cheap shot at F1 and its drivers was pretty slimy, imho.

 

ETA: I wasn't holding Bianchi up as an example of bravery so much as an example that all of motorsport is very dangerous. He took a shot at F1, not some other series.


Edited by AustinF1, 27 August 2015 - 23:18.


#5 Risil

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 22:55

Oh, it's actually in this piece by someone called Preston Lerner. Guy seems pretty enamoured with danger for someone who doesn't race cars for a living.



#6 AustinF1

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 23:03

Good eye. Thanks. I had thought they were the same article, as the Lerner piece appears on the same page directly below the Morrison piece when using the original link I found.. Somehow I doubted Mac Morrison would write something like that. I'll edit the OP.


Edited by AustinF1, 27 August 2015 - 23:12.


#7 BlinkyMcSquinty

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 01:15

That's pretty pathetic, attempting to make any racing series a game of balls. Whenever any racer, be it karting or speedboats or GT3 or Formula One put on their helmets and fire up their engines, they know that the day may end with them in a completely unfortunate situation.

 

That's pretty pathetic dick-waving.



#8 ClubmanGT

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 01:29

I'm stunned by that argument because Hinch got his knock on a street course. I'm not sure he would appreciate the logic either. 



#9 Gyno

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 01:32

Bianchi was a freak accident and would never have happened had he followed the rules.

Like slow down under double yellow.

F1 is really safe compared to Indycar.

 

But still indycar is really safe compared to Irish Road Racing.

They are the only ones who really puts everything on the line.

 

Not only that but majority of them doesn't even get paid to do it, they spend all their Money on racing.

They risk everything, knowing 1 tiny mistake will end their life.



#10 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 01:51

Or at least Preston Lerner says so. Whomever he is.

 

After Justin Wilson’s Death, What Should IndyCar Do?

 

http://www.automobil...uld-indycar-do/

 

 So....Jules Bianchi. Ever heard of him? Maybe Mr. Lerner should talk to his family.

 

Shameful bit of writing imho, trying to divide the two series' drivers in that way.

 

So what are you disagreeing with?  The claim that Indycars are far more dangerous than F1, to the point of being the separate category of danger?  

 

If that's what you're disagreeing with, then you don't have much of an argument.  Bianchi was the first F1 driver to die in 20 years.  Wilson was the 8th Indycar driver to die in 20 years.



#11 AustinF1

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 01:58

So what are you disagreeing with?  The claim that Indycars are far more dangerous than F1, to the point of being the separate category of danger?  

 

If that's what you're disagreeing with, then you don't have much of an argument.  Bianchi was the first F1 driver to die in 20 years.  Wilson was the 8th Indycar driver to die in 20 years.

I'm disagreeing with the way he couched F1 racing as somehow 'too safe' and IndyCar as some sort of gladiator show.

 

I'll be the first to admit that oval racing is more dangerous than circuit racing, but that doesn't mean either is inherently safe. There are plenty of other forms of racing that are more dangerous than oval racing. Should they sneer and look down on IndyCar the way he does F1 in the piece?



#12 Afterburner

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 03:15

I'm disagreeing with the way he couched F1 racing as somehow 'too safe' and IndyCar as some sort of gladiator show.

I'll be the first to admit that oval racing is more dangerous than circuit racing, but that doesn't mean either is inherently safe. There are plenty of other forms of racing that are more dangerous than oval racing. Should they sneer and look down on IndyCar the way he does F1 in the piece?

I don't think the condescending tone would exist if Indycar were more popular. There's a whole host of reasons for this and though I probably sympathise with many of them, this probably isn't the thread for them.

#13 secessionman

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 03:16

Bianchi was a freak accident and would never have happened had he followed the rules.

Like slow down under double yellow.

F1 is really safe compared to Indycar.

 

But still indycar is really safe compared to Irish Road Racing.

They are the only ones who really puts everything on the line.

 

Not only that but majority of them doesn't even get paid to do it, they spend all their Money on racing.

They risk everything, knowing 1 tiny mistake will end their life.

 

That's harsh on Bianchi as the rules weren't being enforced by Race Control.

 

If Bianchi had slowed to the required speed, and nobody else had, then, in those conditions, he would have been causing more danger than was actually the case.

 

Bianchi died, not because everyone drove too fast under yellows, but because there was an effing JCB the wrong side of the barrier.



#14 paulb

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 04:11

He's not a fly-by-night journalist by any means. Preston Lerner has been covering motorsports for perhaps longer than many Autosport members have been breathing. 

 

I read the article to say that IndyCar racing is more dangerous than F1.  I don't think he demeaned F1 nor minimized Jules death.



#15 loki

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 05:49

Lerner is a car guy, not necessarily a motorsport guy.  And racing an Indycar on an oval can be more dangerous than other forms of motorsport.  I think what you see more than anything is a difference in culture between Indycar and F1.  Both can be pretty dangerous.



#16 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:22

F1 is much safer than Indycar.

 

All the drivers are in Indycar, because an F1 team won't employ them... otherwise they would be in F1.  They are all drivers who would like to be in F1, but failed.

 

Oval racing is stupid with formula cars.  :mad: 

 

The indycar drivers only race on ovals because they have no choice; it's either Indycar or NO open wheel racing career at all.  :( 



#17 Peat

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:34

^LOL



#18 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:41

^LOL

 

Is it not true?

 

Let's say Scuderia Ferrari got on the phone to to Mr Juan Pablo Montoya.  Do you think he would say "Sorry my loyalty lies with Mr Penske.  Racing Indycars is my dream job. I must respectfully decline, thanks for the offer anyhow, good luck with your search.  I hear youngsters like Jean-Eric wouldn't mind racing in F1... He can't seem to get a prestigeous Indycar seat... a nice young chap all the the same, a little bit of F1 tiddly-winks would do JEV some good... maybe it would prepare him for Indycar one day. Indycar is where men and women race, F1 is for little boys and little girls. :)"

 

5141194159_orly_xlarge.jpeg

 

I agree that Indycar is actually the more difficult and more demanding series by the way, but ultimately they are racing in Indycar (and others like Jani, Doornbos etc in Champcar) because they can't get a drive in F1 (or they can't get a drive in F1 *any more*).


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 28 August 2015 - 07:44.


#19 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:44

Is it not true?

No.



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#20 Marklar

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:44

Not sure if that is something he should be proud of. At least it sounds a bit like that. The article is not that bad, its a good read actually, but his conclusion is shamefull...

So....Jules Bianchi. Ever heard of him? Maybe Mr. Lerner should talk to his family.

Obviously yes...

His death came barely a month after that of Formula 1 driver Jules Bianchi, who also suffered mortal head injuries when his car slid into a crane that had been unwisely deployed on the Suzuka Circuit during a soaking wet Japanese Grand Prix last October.



#21 Nonesuch

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:47

If the writer can't make his point about IndyCar and Wilson without putting other people and series down he might be doing a disservice to the man he's trying to honour, who, after all, was a much liked competitor in both F1 and IndyCar, as well as various other series, and never seemed to feel the need to complain in similar terms.

 

That's harsh on Bianchi as the rules weren't being enforced by Race Control.

 

The regulations on double yellow are there precisely because they are to be used in the event of marshals being on the track. It's extremely unfortunate that Bianchi's crash led to his death, and I think everyone involved in watching F1 is in some way saddened by the events and the terrible loss that his family has suffered. But let's not forget that this could have easily been much worse had Bianchi collected one or more of the volunteer Japanese marshals who were working at that part of the run-off.

Drivers not wanting to lose time to competitors or not wanting to cause additional hazards by driving slowly is only a part of the equation. There are real human beings standing within meters of these cars when the yellow flags are waved.


Edited by Nonesuch, 28 August 2015 - 07:50.


#22 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:48

No.

 

So they could get a drive in F1 tomorrow, but prefer to race in Indycar because Indycar is better? :)

 

There are only some silly drivers like Hamilton & Vettel, who are too daft or stubborn to switch to the better series.  :p  :p

 

Fortunately, Mansell knew what the score was - he made the switch to the better series!   :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  (unless these othes like Berger, Alesi, etc, lol, how deluded the lot of them -- too stubborn to make the move to the better open wheel series, unlike the wise Nige! :) )

 

 

[Indycar is better BTW, actually :)]


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 28 August 2015 - 07:49.


#23 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:03

So they could get a drive in F1 tomorrow, but prefer to race in Indycar because Indycar is better? :)

 

There are only some silly drivers like Hamilton & Vettel, who are too daft or stubborn to switch to the better series.  :p  :p

 

Fortunately, Mansell knew what the score was - he made the switch to the better series!   :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  (unless these othes like Berger, Alesi, etc, lol, how deluded the lot of them -- too stubborn to make the move to the better open wheel series, unlike the wise Nige! :) )

 

 

[Indycar is better BTW, actually :)]

Okay, I'll explain myself.

 

The two series are very different, requiring very different skills. One is spec, one is not. One races primarily on ovals and proper street circuits, the other doesn't. The cultures are completely different - Montoya has explicitly said as much in the past. The only real link is that they're both open wheel.

 

Back in the day, Danica Patrick could surely have walked into a seat at a midfield team with her GoDaddy sponsorship. She didn't. Why? An interesting question. It tells you that not everyone is aiming for F1. Many drivers genuinely like ovals. If an F1 team offered Ed Carpenter a seat, he'd turn it down - after being very baffled about why he was being offered a seat - because he loves ovals. Many of the drivers do.

 

We need to get over this belief that F1 is the pinnacle of all motor sport and that that's all anyone ever wants. It's simply not the case.



#24 Peat

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:06

I think JPM is a bad example, for you. He's been through the F1 mill, he has a good life in America, i am 99.9% sure he would decline. 

Some of the younger guys, sure. Who wouldn't want to at least have a go at a Formula One Grand Prix? But the culture between the 2 is vastly different. People who have made the switch from Europe often wax lyrical about how weird it is to socialise/hang out with your rivals. 

There are only, what? 6 good seats in F1? The rest, you need to bring a vastly bigger budget (than you do for an IndyCar ride), troll around with next to no chance of being competitive, deal with the tedious cut-throat politics day in day out and do infinitely more press work. All with the fear of being out on your ar$e, owed thousands of of Euros, hanging over you at every step. 

F1 is simply not 'the best 20 drivers in the world'.

If it were the 80's i'd choose F1. If it were today, i'd do Indy. It looks so much more fun. 

 


Edited by Peat, 28 August 2015 - 08:09.


#25 taran

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:08

Yesterday, I read an old article with Jacques Laffite from 1995 in which he said F1 had become too safe and too easy. Drivers of his era enjoyed F1 because it was dangerous. You needed to be good and precise (and probably a bit mad) to drive those cars fast or you'd pay a price instead of losing a few seconds because you went off track.

 

Twenty years later, F1 drives on tracks that don't punish mistakes at all, with cars that are so safe that drivers take great risks and/or do stupid things because there is no fear of consequences.

 

Indycars are a bit of a throwback with their relatively unsophisticated cars and dangerous tracks so in what way is this writer wrong with his assesment? Numerous F1 drivers have said that indycars are too dangerous in their view. Indycar drivers get on with it. A matter of different expectations and perhaps different (racing) motivations?



#26 jonpollak

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:11

If y'all are finished with this hideous clickbait may I suggest heading over to PayPal and do something that has an actual effect on lives!!!

 

PayPal is up and running for donations @  http://wilsonchildrensfund.com

 

So go over there, click the donate button and pony up some cash to help keep his girls afloat.

 

YES YOU..!!

c0078ae884a7c22f3d98ede71863f907.jpeg

 

Jp



#27 taran

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:14

There are only, what? 6 good seats in F1? The rest, you need to bring a vastly bigger budget (than you do for an IndyCar ride), troll around with next to no chance of being competitive, deal with the tedious cut-throat politics day in day out and do infinitely more press work. All with the fear of being out on your ar$e, owed thousands of of Euros, hanging over you at every step. 

 

 

This!

 

F1 is great if you're in a winning car. Otherwise, you're racing for scraps. In Indycars, you have far more chance of getting a good ride and even in a little team, you can still pull off the occasional upset.

 

For a racer, that must be far more rewarding and motivating than driving a McLaren or Manor in F1....

 

So if Ferrari called Montoya, he might consider it as it is a winning car. If Williams called I don't think Montaya would switch to go from championship leader to podium hopeful.



#28 taran

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:22

If y'all are finished with this hideous clickbait may I suggest heading over to PayPal and do something that has an actual effect on lives!!!

 

PayPal is up and running for donations @  http://wilsonchildrensfund.com

 

So go over there, click the donate button and pony up some cash to help keep his girls afloat.

 

YES YOU..!!

c0078ae884a7c22f3d98ede71863f907.jpeg

 

Jp

 

I don't like these "friendly suggestions".

 

Justin Wilson was a professional racing driver who probably made more money than most people on this forum. Certainly more than I do as a civil servant.

He must also have had a pretty good life insurance policy in his line of work. Yet WE are to pony up money to support his family?

 

If people feel the urge, by all means. But a little less of the boldfaced shouting if you please.



#29 hittheapex

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:28

More people die fishing every year than any other sport, perhaps that "writer" would prefer Indycar drivers to swap their cars for boats if he thinks a sport is better for "laying everything on the line."



#30 jonpollak

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:40

I don't like these "friendly suggestions".

 

Justin Wilson was a professional racing driver who probably made more money than most people on this forum. Certainly more than I do as a civil servant.

He must also have had a pretty good life insurance policy in his line of work. Yet WE are to pony up money to support his family?

 

If people feel the urge, by all means. But a little less of the boldfaced shouting if you please.

 

Don't assume ...

I'm afraid you have NO CLUE about this situation my friend.

Jp



#31 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:44

 F1 is the pinnacle of all motor sport and that that's all anyone ever wants. It's simply not the case.

 

One has to wonder why the likes of Will Power or Takuma Sato raced in British F3 or Montoya &, Bourdais & Glock in Formula 3000 or Coletti in GP2 and not Indy Lights / Atlantics if Indycar was always  their number one goal:confused:  ...because it, politely, doesn't make sense. :)


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 28 August 2015 - 08:44.


#32 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 08:46

Indycar drivers get on with it.

 

They have no other choice, as there are no credible career alternatives.  :well:



#33 greenman

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:10

The fact that most of drivers coming through open wheel ranks see F1 as their primary goal is true, but your suggestion that these drivers only do ovals because they are forced to is laughable, can you please stop making an idiot out of yourself?

 

I mean, I'm sure some drivers never considered doing ovals before coming to USA, but if they saw the risk to be too big, then they wouldn't ****ing do it. And let's ask guys like Rahal, Andretti, Kanaan, Castroneves, Karam, Carpenter, Hunter Reay, Newgarden, if they would drop racing on ovals for a chance of a midfield seat in F1. Or if they would prefer an Indy 500 win or a Monaco win in F1.



#34 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:14

One has to wonder why the likes of Will Power or Takuma Sato raced in British F3 or Montoya &, Bourdais & Glock in Formula 3000 or Coletti in GP2 and not Indy Lights / Atlantics if Indycar was always  their number one goal:confused:  ...because it, politely, doesn't make sense. :)

That's not what I'm saying. As greenman has said, of course for some (but not all) current IndyCar drivers F1 was their aim initially. But things change over time. Your suggestion that these drivers only do ovals out of necessity is simply patently untrue.



#35 jonpollak

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:16

 can you please stop making an idiot out of yourself?

 

 

good luck with that !!!

Jp



#36 AndyPerry

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:22

Don't assume ...

I'm afraid you have NO CLUE about this situation my friend.

Jp

 

Well then, enlighten us. I would also like to know, because I've been wondering the same thing. I'm not sure how my money can really help his family, if they're financially stable. if If JW wasn't insured, it's a totally different ball game.



#37 Myrvold

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:25

The indycar drivers only race on ovals because they have no choice; it's either Indycar or NO open wheel racing career at all.  :( 

 

Many are there by choice.

 

In my little not-so-interested in asphalt-racing country, we have two young drivers aiming for F1, and two aiming at IndyCar. The two aiming at IndyCar have both been asked why IndyCar and not F1, and both are more interested in the IndyCar aspect of racing, more diversity, the speed etc.

While our F1 'hopes' aim for F1 because it is F1...


Edited by Myrvold, 28 August 2015 - 09:26.


#38 SenorSjon

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:36

Well then, enlighten us. I would also like to know, because I've been wondering the same thing. I'm not sure how my money can really help his family, if they're financially stable. if If JW wasn't insured, it's a totally different ball game.

 

 

Well, dads get killed on the road daily. There wouldn't be a fund big enough for all of their families. Bit heartless maybe, but I get really annoyed by all the charities slamming you in your face.

 

 

On topic.

 

He does has a point. Watch the road courses as well. Tilke would be shot on sight on most tracks, as do the FIA track design rulemakers. Most of them still have grass next to track, no milewide kerbs, etc.



#39 Peat

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:56

I must admit to feeling a little conflicted on the JW Children Fund thing.  

The picture in your mind of a professional racing driver is usually a massive house, fast cars and private jets. However, JW spent that last few years driving for Dale Coyne. He probably did 'ok' out of it, but certainly wasn't earning megabucks. Then this Andretti deal was a part-time gig, paid for largely by Honda. He would have drawn a 'reasonable' income from that, i'm sure. But, I also have testimonies of him sharing economy flights with journalists to/from races and buying second hand cars, just like the rest of us. 

Regarding insurance - I don't think it's mandatory, and from things i've heard over the years, many drivers do without (in all series) because the premiums are so high that in some cases you'd fail to turn a personal profit year-on-year. You'd like to think he had something in place, but you never know. He's been going round with a begging bowl looking for drives for years!

Yes, thousands of people die each and every day in accidents and 'should we all chuck money at their kids too?' Of course not. However, Justin Wilson was a guy who although i only met once, fleetingly, impressed me and i enjoyed watching him racing for a good 15 years. While he was only touched a teensy-tiny part of my life, I feel enough affection for him that I would hate to see his wife and kids suffer any major hardship in the wake of this loss. 

I'll chuck a tenner in, because i want to and can afford it. I'm sure the wealthier of those directly around him will REALLY chip in. But, I perfectly respect anyone's decision not to. 



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#40 August

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 10:24

F1 is much safer than Indycar.

 

All the drivers are in Indycar, because an F1 team won't employ them... otherwise they would be in F1.  They are all drivers who would like to be in F1, but failed.

 

Oval racing is stupid with formula cars.  :mad: 

 

The indycar drivers only race on ovals because they have no choice; it's either Indycar or NO open wheel racing career at all.  :( 

 

Still in the 90s Bernie was so afraid of CART that he and FIA put restrictions on where they can race outside North America.

 

Surely there are IndyCar drivers who'd like to drive in F1. Though the IndyCar top drivers surely don't want to drive for a backmarker team in F1 when they can race for the title in IndyCar (and as they wouldn't pay for a seat they couldn't even get into a backmarker F1 team). 

 

Then again, I'm sure some drivers who've grown up to appreciate IndyCar and the 500 really want to be in IndyCar. Would they trade an IndyCar seat to a F1 seat? Right now, I think they'd do that for a good contract. Though, if their dreams have been in IndyCar, I'm sure they'd do it, either before or after the F1 career.

 

If pay and prestige were more equal between F1 and IndyCar, I'm sure we'd see more F1-IndyCar crossover. Young drivers would rather take a competitive IndyCar seat than a backmarker F1 seat. Drivers stuck into midfield F1 teams would like a switch to a top IndyCar team. And even the top F1 drivers would feel more desire to succeed also in IndyCar.

 

As for oval racing being too dangerous for open-wheel cars, each May 33 drivers, their teams, 250,000 spectators, and millions TV viewers don't feel that way.



#41 ANF

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 10:35

"More to the point, cockpit strikes are exceedingly rare, and rarely fatal." Really? I'm not sure Preston Lerner realized that an F1 driver could be killed by a stray wheel while on the pit limiter at COTA or any other "antiseptic race circuit".



#42 HoldenRT

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 10:51

I sort of agree with him about F1 currently but don't understand what that has to do with Indycars or the fatalities that happen in either sport.  Now's not the time for these sort of comparisons, it's the time for compassion for Wilson's family.

 

I am confused how this came about and agree with the OP in that respect.



#43 JeePee

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 11:55

F1 drivers usually go over the line.

 

... and then nothing happens.



#44 BlinkyMcSquinty

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 13:01

It's sad, so sad that this thread has turned into the crappy "This series better than that series because ... "

 

IT DOESN'T MATTER

 

In Formula One, Indycar, karts, you can get killed. You can drag out the statistics until Canada runs out of trees to print the paper, it doesn't matter. If you are dead in the ground, you are dead, it doesn't matter anymore what you were driving.



#45 JHSingo

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 13:16

F1 is much safer than Indycar.

 

All the drivers are in Indycar, because an F1 team won't employ them... otherwise they would be in F1.  They are all drivers who would like to be in F1, but failed.

 

Oval racing is stupid with formula cars.  :mad: 

 

The indycar drivers only race on ovals because they have no choice; it's either Indycar or NO open wheel racing career at all.  :( 

 

With all due respect, that post comes across as very snobbish, and does a disservice to the talent of the guys involved. But I suppose in this thread it was only a matter of time before someone said something like that. :rolleyes:

 

I do wish IndyCar drivers would get more respect, rather than this oft-repeated line (usually from F1 fans) that they're not good drivers, simply because they're not in F1 or whatever BS.

 

99% of the world's aspiring racing drivers will not get to F1. Okay, sometimes that is because of a lack of talent. But in the majority of cases, it is because drivers aren't bankrolled by an energy drinks company, don't come from an incredibly wealthy background, or whatever. There are only 20 F1 drivers in the world, and to try and argue that any drivers who don't get to F1 are somehow not good enough, or failures when that's the case, is absolute nonsense.



#46 Prost1997T

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 13:54

There are 16 different countries represented in Indycar's ladder system, so there are plenty of drivers making that decision before they get to GP2 or whatever.

Let's take a quick look at the recent rookies:

2015 - Two from Indy Lights, one from GP2.
2014 - Two from Indy Lights, two from Formula Renault 3.5.
2013 - One from Indy Lights. Some part-timers: two from Indy Lights, two who raced Lights in the past but switched to other categories and one sportscar veteran.
2012 - One from Indy Lights, one from sportscars (if Pagenaud counts), one from F1.

Seems to me the vast majority of new drivers came through the Mazda Road to Indy and weren't really "F1 wannabes". Quite a few existing veterans came through the Indy Lights and Atlantic championships (21 of the 2015 Indy 500 starters raced in Indy Lights, several others in Atlantics or sportscars).

#47 AustinF1

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 14:54

It's sad, so sad that this thread has turned into the crappy "This series better than that series because ... "

 

IT DOESN'T MATTER

 

In Formula One, Indycar, karts, you can get killed. You can drag out the statistics until Canada runs out of trees to print the paper, it doesn't matter. If you are dead in the ground, you are dead, it doesn't matter anymore what you were driving.

Yep. The point of my post was not to say "x series is better" or "y series is more dangerous or less dangerous". I posted it to point out the shameful way the author dishonored Wilson by using an article about him to take a swipe at another series & pump up IndyCar.



#48 goldenboy

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 14:59

What a strange thread.. V8 fireworks are you drunk and angry or something? Does not seem like the usual you.

#49 Treads

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 15:04

Or at least Preston Lerner says so. Whomever he is.

 

After Justin Wilson’s Death, What Should IndyCar Do?

 

http://www.automobil...uld-indycar-do/

 

 So....Jules Bianchi. Ever heard of him? Maybe Mr. Lerner should talk to his family.

 

Shameful bit of writing imho, trying to divide the two series' drivers in that way.

 

Seems horribly bad taste to me to big up Indycar because it's dangerous, which is really what he is doing.



#50 Jon83

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 15:36

I'd say they are all laying it on the line to on degree or another, regardless of the series.

 

Maybe this Preston Lerner character should climb back under his rock and stop trying to score cheap points.