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Racing and Danger.


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#51 Tapz63

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 22:31

I think you're missing my point entirely. My point is that racing (not spectating) is fun, challenging and exciting, even when there's no danger. When there is danger it is, at best, a distraction from the racing that you're trying to do. Myrvold is the first racing enthusiast I've ever heard say he didn't find karting crazily fun and challenging, even in slow, safe karts.


I agree pretty much any racing is fun. Not for everybody though, some people are not very good and dislike it for that reason, it is a competitive sport after all. Other people are good but still have no interest anyway. Even some of those who are interested in spectating dangerous motorsport may not enjoy doing it themselves out of sheer terror or whatever. This is the same for anything though, I personally have no desire to join a circus and perform dangerous feats for audiences but I would probably enjoy watching it for the skill and bravery involved.


Basically I am of the view that if we take away all the danger from motorsport without increasing it also with higher speeds or amazing tracks or something, I think it will lead to massive decline of popularity for the sport. I believe that the drivers and the FIA recognise this also, and that is part of the reason why they are aiming for a speed increase for 2017. Though as concepts such as open cockpits and parts breaking off of cars that crash are now being seen as unacceptable by some, I wonder if it will be possible to continue down that path much longer... Probably not.

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#52 Tsarwash

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 23:14

My question for those of you who say you wouldn't be interested in racing without danger: when you go to those indoor kart places, with the 4-cycle karts with big rubber bumpers that barely break 25 mph on a track that is surrounded by rubber and it's really hard to hurt yourself and completely impossible to get killed: you don't have fun?

Did anybody say they wouldn't be interested in racing with the danger ? I've just reread the replies, and cannot recall anybody saying that. 



#53 Myrvold

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 23:21

I think you're missing my point entirely. My point is that racing (not spectating) is fun, challenging and exciting, even when there's no danger. When there is danger it is, at best, a distraction from the racing that you're trying to do. Myrvold is the first racing enthusiast I've ever heard say he didn't find karting crazily fun and challenging, even in slow, safe karts.

 

And you know why? Because I have done my fair share of racing, both rallycross and karting - the race kart style. And guess what, I was the youngest ever member of the board in my local club. I was in a group that advocated for more safety when it came to track boundaries. At the same time, we worked against getting tarmac runoff, as the danger of spinning, retiring etc. would be lost. We also felt that it wouldn't train drivers as good as more demanding, and I guess in some situations, more dangerous run-offs would.

 

Thing is, I don't want things to be made deadly. But I want challenges, I want proper run-offs, with grass, sand, gravel and so on. I want kerbs that are higher, not these flat things we have now. I want to have that wow-feeling when cars are going side by side through corners in 250 km/h, and I know that one or both can spin out and retire on the spot. I want that challenge, for me, and for the "heroes" that have an insane salary (Hamiltons base-salary is more than half the budget for Manor...).

 

Indoor rental karts, there aren't any danger in it. There is precision, but it's slow, it's not an adrenaline rush. Maybe if that, and driving a car on the road is what you have done in your life - but coming from both racing karts and rallycross. It's boring, I do however enjoy the 2-3 hours rental karts races, because the winner instinct kicks back in, but the driving itself isn't any more fun. It's impossible to spin with the karts, it's nearly impossible to make a mistake with them, other than missing the line a bit.

 

The irony is that my racing career was stopped early, at the age of 17 due to a major head injury, brain hemorrhage, broken skull, damage to the left frontal lobe, I couldn't speak when I woke up etc. It was hell, and two years of training to get to where I am now. How did I get it? Well, I took a ride on my bike, and went to school. Or I tried, I didn't get there, I crashed with another cyclist. My biggest injury is racing was that I knocked by thumb once.

Danger for me doesn't have to be that you risk loosing your life or getting a serious injury. There is two kind of dangers, retirement and injury. The first danger is welcome. The second danger, should be there, but not pushed. To fulfill the first type of danger, you would need to remove tarmac run offs with gravel/grass. By doing that, you might in some situations increase the second danger. But that is for me, acceptable. Because without the first danger, there isn't that much of a wow-factor anymore. This is the reason why I like IndyCar more than F1 these days, if you look away from ovals, you still have many street tracks, with no runoff (even Monaco have now opened up many corners to have runoffs), and for the most part, all of the road courses have gravel, grass or sand runoffs as well. Seeing these drivers wheel to wheel, fighting over trackspace, without spinning and retiring is more impressive.

 

But, ye, sorry - to answer the question. Karting is challenging, and fun. Slow Rental Karts are boring



#54 Nemo1965

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 06:14

Here is an interesting article about the behaviour of drivers in times of 'lack of danger':

 

http://www.grandprix...em-an-inch.html

 

It is not so much the opinion in the end that matters for this discussion but the assessment that brings forth the opinion.



#55 anneomoly

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 15:27

Here is an interesting article about the behaviour of drivers in times of 'lack of danger':

 

http://www.grandprix...em-an-inch.html

 

It is not so much the opinion in the end that matters for this discussion but the assessment that brings forth the opinion.

 

It's all opinion! Apart from the fact that the sausage kerb was removed at the request of the drivers and they subsequently took the piss. Which isn't new news. It's exactly what they were doing with yellow flags. Drivers take the piss out of improved safety. It's not an argument against safety, it's an argument against listening to the drivers too much about what constitutes safety (they should be heard, but their whims shouldn't be bowed down to at every juncture, only when they're making sense).



#56 ANF

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 15:46



Just a reminder of what the sausage kerb did before it was taken away.



#57 chipmcdonald

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Posted 12 September 2015 - 09:58

Most racing fans would still be excited by this remote control car race where nobody is in any danger.

 

 

I hate that nobody hasn't tried a much large scale, maybe 1/4.  RC cars move completely unrealistically relative to the track sizes they run. 

 

The quadcopter racing scene has the right idea: first person VR headsets + closer proportion "track size". 

 

It would be pretty interesting for an F1 style 1/4 scale FP/VR based series to happen.  Kart sized cars, but with VR camera rigs.