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Monza - The Top Speed


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Poll: Monza - The Top Speed (107 member(s) have cast votes)

Guess the top speed in Monza

  1. 350-355 (9 votes [8.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.41%

  2. 355-360 (19 votes [17.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.76%

  3. 360-365 (22 votes [20.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.56%

  4. 365-370 (36 votes [33.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.64%

  5. 370-375 (12 votes [11.21%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.21%

  6. 375-380 (4 votes [3.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.74%

  7. 380-385 (1 votes [0.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.93%

  8. 385-390 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. 390-395 (1 votes [0.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.93%

  10. 395-400 (3 votes [2.80%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.80%

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#1 thegamer23

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 14:54

Jenson-Button-jenson-button-29902097-136

 

 


September 6, 14.02. 

Cars are going to line-up in the Rettifilo straight.

1194,40 meters of sheer speed, carrying the maximum momentum from the iconic Parabolica's corner. Records have been broken down there; in the pursuit of the maximum speed cars are set to extremely low downforce levels. 

Hamilton's words: "It' like go rallying in the first Variante, the cars has no downforce at all and you have to slide it through the corner". 

 

The key to go fast in Monza, is to find the perfect balance between speed and handling. 

In the past, the search for the maximum speed proved to be fatal to Jochen Ridnt, who was running with an extremely low downforce package, and lost the car under braking before the Parabolica. 


inc_rindt.jpg
 

 

Each year we're guessing, we're arguing on how much those modern cars can push the limit forward on the Rettifilo. 
The limit, how far is that? 

The all time record belongs to Juan Pablo Montoya's McLaren-Mercedes, 372,2 km/h in the summer break testing in Monza. The race record belongs to Kimi Raikkonen, 371,1 km/h in 2005's Monza Grand Prix. 
 

 



 

Here it is a brief history of the top speed in Monza
 

 

record_monza.png

 

foto-velocita-monza-3.jpg

 

 

 

After long years of dullness in terms of sheer speed, with the V6 Hybrid Power Units we're back to outstanding levels. 
Last year, Daniel Ricciardo clocked a stunning 361 km/h top speed during the Grand Prix. 



Yes, it was with 2 slipstreams and yes, he had DRS open, but still impressive for a 2014 Renault Engine. 

 

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
 


And now? 

Less than one week to Monza and there are already betting games on Monza's top speed. 

Romain Grosjean clocked 350 km/h in Spa, behind Sebastian Vettel's Ferrari in the closing laps of the Belgian Grand Prix. 

 

Today:

image.png



So, "speed freaks", do you think that we'll finally reach Juan Pablo Montoya's record this year? 

We can use this thread along the weekend to update the Top Speed situations. 



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#2 Requiem84

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 15:02

I love this topic :).

 

I would split it into two questions: what top speed will we see during qualifying, presumably without draft

 

And what will be the ultimate top speed during the race (drafts, double drafts, triple drafts etc). 

 

It seems most engine's gained quite some HP between '14 and '15. But teams might chose to run more df now and keep the same top speeds. It's all down to what is faster! :)

How much faster were top speeds at Spa this year compared to last year? That should give a good indication?



#3 Dan333SP

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 15:17

I love that you have a 395-400 km/h category. Even the mostly de-winged BAR-Honda with a V10 just barely broke 400 km/h in a single pass at Bonneville for a top speed record, don't think these turbos will get within 30 km/h of that in race settings.

 

 

I'm going to call it at 367.4 km/h in the race by a Williams... let's say Massa.



#4 chhatra

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 15:39

365.

As pointed out, teams always try and add downforce if they think they have more power available. It helps with cornering, braking traction, tires, driver confidence etc.

#5 nosecone

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 15:43

305 for McLaren-Honda



#6 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 15:44

 

I'm going to call it at 367.4 km/h in the race by a Williams... let's say Massa.

 

 

That's hoping that Williams actually use their car's high top speed this time, unlike at Spa.



#7 Kyo

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 15:56

New race record of 370.3 km/h

 

For qualifying 358.1 km/h



#8 GoGro

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:06

With the DRS and possibly low downforce mode by some teams, I predict something around 365 km/h



#9 TomNokoe

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:07

They'll beat it next year.

#10 Dan333SP

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:13

That's hoping that Williams actually use their car's high top speed this time, unlike at Spa.

 

True. Any data on how they ran last year? I know DR in the RB had the top race speed in a triple draft with DRS, but how were Williams in P/Q sessions?



#11 f1RacingForever

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:16

Cars have more power but more downforce as well. They have been slightly slower down the straights this year. Top speed will be less than last year.

#12 Dan333SP

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:16

Also, apparently the OP started an identical thread last year-

 

http://forums.autosp...-the-top-speed/

 

The average speed based on all guesses was only .4 km/h off of the actual top speed.

 

That result made me think of this-

 

http://www.npr.org/2...he-stock-market

 

Group think at work! Let's see how close we get this year.



#13 scheivlak

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:28

To complicate things: there's a chance of rain this weekend.......



#14 Cloxxki

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:33

Anyone know what the rev limiter speed in 8th gear is for individual teams?



#15 OO7

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:39

Great topic!

 

I'll go for 358.9 km/h in qualification, assuming it is dry.


Edited by OO7, 01 September 2015 - 16:41.


#16 tempname11

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 16:47

Anyone know what the rev limiter speed in 8th gear is for individual teams?

Well, in the OP video, Ricciardo does 360 km/h at roughly 12400 rpm. If I'm not mistaken, the limit is 15000 rpm, and that would give a limiter speed of 435 km/h.  :eek:

 

Since the peak power rpm is probably way below 15000 (might be a bit below that number of 12400 for Renault), I'd guess that all teams have similar gearing and thus similar insane limited speed. Thus the only real limits would be drag and power.


Edited by tempname11, 01 September 2015 - 16:48.


#17 Atreiu

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 17:53

355-360 in qualifying would already impress me.



#18 Scotracer

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 18:09

DRS speeds are cheating. The fastest non DRS this year will be around 345kph and DRS around 360kph.

#19 OO7

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 19:18

DRS speeds are cheating. The fastest non DRS this year will be around 345kph and DRS around 360kph.

I used to think the same way and then I thought '3 litre V10 speeds are cheating'.  Those cars had almost twice the capacity and many more revs to play with compared to these turbos.



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#20 JHSingo

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 19:28

Why is Button in a 2009 McLaren in the opening post? :confused:



#21 JAW97

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 20:19

Voted 370-375 but with a little more reflection I'll say 365-370. 365.7 to be precise.

Assuming its dry anyway

Edited by JAW97, 01 September 2015 - 20:20.


#22 Dan333SP

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 21:17

Why is Button in a 2009 McLaren in the opening post? :confused:

 

Glad I'm not the only one that was totally confused by everything about that image.



#23 OO7

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 21:19

Voted 370-375 but with a little more reflection I'll say 365-370. 365.7 to be precise.

Assuming its dry anyway

Why 365.7 when 367.5 is the median. :p



#24 OO7

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 21:23

Glad I'm not the only one that was totally confused by everything about that image.

Huh!  What is confusing me is why he is driving a Formula 1 car through silver and amber paint! :lol:



#25 Dan333SP

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 21:30

Huh!  What is confusing me is why he is driving a Formula 1 car through silver and amber paint! :lol:

 

Besides everything else, I'm confused by why anyone would want to attempt to make art out of what has to be one of the ugliest F1 cars of the last decade.



#26 thegamer23

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 14:26

I liked that picture, even if not accurate.  :lol: 

Shows some sense of speed with that silver and amber flows!

So..why not?  :stoned:



#27 Currahee

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 17:51

It'll rain.



#28 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 18:01

I believe current power units can reach 390 KPH with very low downforce package, but with race spec, I believe 375 KPH is realistic target.


Edited by RYARLE, 02 September 2015 - 18:02.


#29 thegamer23

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 18:15

It'll rain.


According to italian weather services it'll rain on friday very late afternoon and saturday till early afternoon.
FP1-FP2 and race should be bone dry, while FP3 & quali could be wet.

#30 tempname11

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 21:09

According to italian weather services it'll rain on friday very late afternoon and saturday till early afternoon.
FP1-FP2 and race should be bone dry, while FP3 & quali could be wet.

Mmm, wet quali...  :clap:



#31 thegamer23

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 08:34

Rosberg has already recorded a top speed of 352 km/h! Last year the top speed in Q3 was 353.x km/h.

#32 OO7

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 08:43

Rosberg has already recorded a top speed of 352 km/h! Last year the top speed in Q3 was 353.x km/h.

You must be a mind reader!  ;)



#33 thegamer23

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 08:46

You must be a mind reader!  ;)


Not at all eheh

#34 Kobasmashi

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 09:22

i don't want to sound depressing and off-topic, but didn't Rindt crash because of a mecahnical failure rather than a mere lack of downforce (in 1970 even the maximum possible downforce they would generate around Monaco and Jarama would be very low)?



#35 Pontlieue

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 09:42

I expect moderate top speed gains compared to last year, which would mean something between 360 and 370.



#36 A3

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 09:48

i don't want to sound depressing and off-topic, but didn't Rindt crash because of a mecahnical failure rather than a mere lack of downforce (in 1970 even the maximum possible downforce they would generate around Monaco and Jarama would be very low)?

 

Just looked it up.

 

From the nostalgia forum:

 

 

From Alan Henry's Autocourse profile Jochen Rindt:

"On Saturday 5 September 1970 Jochen Rindt went out to practice in his Lotus 72 at Monza in preparation for the Italian Grand Prix. At Chapman's insistence, he was running without nose wings or aerofoil in an attempt to squeeze out of it as much straightline speed as possible to counter the more powerful flat-12 Ferraris. Rindt's team-mate John Miles was told to do the same, but was adamant that the car felt horrifyingly unstable in this configuration.
Braking hard for Parabolica, Rindt had just overtaken Denny Hulme's McLaren when his 72 began weaving under braking and speared off to the left, impacting very heavily against the inadequately secured guard rail. The front of the car was torn off as the Lotus's chisel nose jammed under the barrier and Jochen, who never secured the crotch straps on his six point harness, was plunged into the cockpit, severing his jugular vein on it's main buckle."
"A lengthy investigation eventually attributed Jochen's loss of control to the fracturing of one of front brakeshafts, although instability on cold tyres was also a significant factor."

Edited by A3, 04 September 2015 - 09:53.


#37 Collombin

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 11:15

At Chapman's insistence my ass. Jochen was very much in favour of the idea, indeed it might even have originated from him.

#38 OO7

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 17:20

Highest speed recorded in Q3 was set by Kimi Raikkonen Sergio Perez at 354.6 kph.

Mercedes were slower than last year.


Edited by OO7, 05 September 2015 - 17:38.


#39 Scotracer

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 17:27

Highest speed recorded in Q3 was set by Kimi Raikkonen at 354.6 kph.
Mercedes were slower than last year.


You just don't know the realities because these Max speeds could include laps with a tow. That's particularly why the race speeds are irrelevant

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#40 OO7

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 17:36

You just don't know the realities because these Max speeds could include laps with a tow. That's particularly why the race speeds are irrelevant

We saw the laps (Hamilton's) laps and there was no slipstreaming, the same as last year.  I didn't include race speeds in my predictions for that very reason.



#41 Jacobss

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 15:56

So, what was the highest top speed recorded today? I watched the race using onboard channels and I saw something like 357 km/h with DRS and slipstream at around 12500 RPM's. I think it was Raikkonen, I also saw Williams and Rosberg at similar speed. Are any speed traps available?



#42 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 17:10

From lap 38/53:

 

COOMVeUWIAAWqDp.jpg

https://twitter.com/...509873730506753


Edited by thegforcemaybewithyou, 06 September 2015 - 17:11.


#43 Nigol

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 20:32

So, what is it? Anyone got some facts?



#44 Yoshi

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 22:02

Here you can see Kimi with DRS with a topspeed of 361

 



#45 Nigol

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 23:20

Yeah but was this really the fastest car?



#46 Atreiu

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 23:21

I guess that's it.

Kind of disappointing.



#47 Wuzak

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 00:38

From Forix.com

Cla 	 Nº 	 Driver 	 	Km/h 
1	7 	Kimi Räikkönen		358.3
2	6 	Nico Rosberg		355.8
3	77 	Valtteri Bottas		354.4
4	44 	Lewis Hamilton		351.9
5	11 	Sergio Pérez		349.8
6	33 	Max Verstappen		347.9
7	9 	Marcus Ericsson		347.0
8	19 	Felipe Massa		346.9
9	55 	Carlos Sainz		346.8
10	3 	Daniel Ricciardo	345.1
11	26 	Daniil Kvyat		345.1
12	5 	Sebastian Vettel	342.7
13	27 	Nico Hülkenberg		340.4
14	12 	Felipe Nasr		340.1
15	14 	Fernando Alonso		337.5
16	22 	Jenson Button		333.0
17	8 	Romain Grosjean		326.7
18	98 	Roberto Merhi		320.7
19	28 	Will Stevens		320.0
20	13 	Pastor Maldonado	241.0


#48 Cloxxki

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 00:50

I suppose that's a combination of all speed traps in the race?

Now look at the Manor cars. Now they have bad engines. About time they got something nicer. 
How of the time they lose per lap will be down to power, if it's 2-3 seconds for McHonda? They won't have as many, if any, DRS opportunities of course. 
 



#49 Wuzak

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 03:53

Highest reading for each of the cars at the speed trap during the race.

 

Manor can't fit the latest Ferrari power unit as the chassis is not compatible.