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The pros and cons of introducing closed cockpits


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#1 Sebas9031

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 01:09

Introducing close cockpits into the F1 cars has stirred up the Formula environment. There are different thoughts on this matter, and here are just a few pros and cons in my opinion:

 

Pros:

 

-Inevitable, Drivers will be more protected from flying debris and when crashes occur.

- In my opinion the car will look cool base out of the renderings I have seen on the web.

 

Cons:

 

- As the change in sound from changing the engines from a V8 to a V6 diminish the F1 attention from fans, I believe introducing these cockpits will only keep pushing fans away from the sport. 

- As FIA states, they are worried about the ease of getting out of the car in the even of a crash. They gave Alonso's example when he ended up on top of Kimi Raikkonen's car. 

- Also they worried about hitting debris into the spectators. 

 

So far I see more danger from actually putting these cockpits than leaving the cars as they are. After all the drivers know what they are getting into when they race cars. 

 

 

 

 

 

 



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#2 MatsNorway

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 14:41

I am all for it if we get faster cars.



#3 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 04 September 2015 - 23:19

Close the cars and they are then Sports Cars!



#4 MatsNorway

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 08:24

Actually make it free to choose for the teams.



#5 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 10:19

This is a hot topic on another forum I frequent. Opinions are mixed.

A point I raised was how to cope with a trailing car being anointed with buckets of oil from a leading car that has just
grenaded its engine. No fun that!

MatsNorway: Do you really hold the opinion that faster is better?

#6 MatsNorway

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 13:32

Depends on what kind of fast.

Faster by more downforce: No. Thats bad for the sport.

Faster as in more hp, simpler and lighter cars: yes

The F1 class is simply ridicoulusly expensive for its laptimes. They could fairly simple make cheaper cars with equal lap times. The high weight limit allows you to do more fancy stuff in an attemt to get more speed back.

 

By dropping the weight down to something really low say 400kg for the argument here. Would they still had 4kg front and rear to get a third element? What does all the stuff needed for a third element weight? Chassie stiffening, links, joints and the damper.


Edited by MatsNorway, 06 September 2015 - 18:44.


#7 MatsNorway

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 19:02

Offtopic to spark some interest.

Desmo gif should be counted as pictures.

http://gfycat.com/Pl...wningFlycatcher



#8 desmo

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 01:06

That's a nice view of the Toro Rosso with a major wardrobe malfunction. Does anyone really want to see the Renault powertrain though?

#9 bigleagueslider

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 03:53

There have been a couple of incidents in open wheel racing (F1, Indy, etc) where drivers have been seriously injured by being hit by wreckage debris or even wild animals wandering onto the track. An enclosed cockpit would possibly have helped in most of these incidents. But using enclosed cockpits also creates other issues like extracting the driver after a crash, keeping the driver cool during a race in hot weather, keeping the windscreen clear during rain or from fogging inside, and ensuring the canopy structure will not cause injury to the driver from impacts.



#10 RogerGraham

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 13:36

They are all solved issues in other forms of racing with closed cockpits.  An F1 closed cockpit would be a different design, but overcoming those concerns shouldn't overly tax the minds of the F1 design teams.



#11 Canuck

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Posted 08 September 2015 - 23:37

What?? And stop all the focusing on aero? Heretic! Witch! Burn him!

#12 TimRTC

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 09:21

How about a drag racer style partial canopy:

 

6082200228_e39f6c67e0_z.jpg

 

Open at the top to allow extraction, but providing coverage from the most likely danger areas.



#13 Wuzak

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 14:15

You could see why the FIA wouldn't mandate such a scrren for F1:

 



#14 MatsNorway

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 15:28

Better than nothing. Also you can probably strenghten it with a small frame.


Edited by MatsNorway, 09 September 2015 - 15:29.


#15 desmo

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 19:57

The dragster solution looks like perhaps the best overall compromise if open cockpits a la F1 are deemed too dangerous.

#16 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 21:16

They are all solved issues in other forms of racing with closed cockpits. An F1 closed cockpit would be a different design, but overcoming those concerns shouldn't overly tax the minds of the F1 design teams.


Bingo.

It bottles the mind that so many people struggle with this.

#17 desmo

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 21:42

Well next thing they'll want fenders after the next wheels touching incident launches a car and then open wheel racing is over. Right? Personally, if the small incremental increase in danger inherent in open cockpits has for so long been deemed acceptable I don't see why one unfortunate incident would change that judgement. Anecdotes aren't data. I still believe open wheels are significantly more dangerous than open cockpits, but I'd vote to keep things as they are in F1 for now. The biggest possible reduction in putting people in harm's way would probably be reducing the number of pit crew who are allowed to go over the wall, who are routinely exposed to rather extreme danger.

#18 TimRTC

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Posted 09 September 2015 - 23:10

Well next thing they'll want fenders after the next wheels touching incident launches a car and then open wheel racing is over. Right?

 

Open wheelers went flying just last weekend:

 

 

Personally, if the small incremental increase in danger inherent in open cockpits has for so long been deemed acceptable I don't see why one unfortunate incident would change that judgement.

 

I don't think it is just one incident, there have afterall been two fatalities in top level motorsport this year caused by FOD into an open cockpit and the last near-fatal F1 accident was the spring hitting Massa.

 

You could see why the FIA wouldn't mandate such a scrren for F1:

 

The drag screen did its job - it deflected the tyre over the driver - we are not wanting to make the cars invincible. It would also solve the issues of extraction and for purists, it would keep the cockpits open.



#19 imaginesix

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 02:57

It won't happen.

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#20 bigleagueslider

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 05:02

They are all solved issues in other forms of racing with closed cockpits.  An F1 closed cockpit would be a different design, but overcoming those concerns shouldn't overly tax the minds of the F1 design teams.

Sports prototypes with enclosed cockpits also have doors on both sides. I can't imagine it would be easy to fit a pair of doors to an F1 car that would always permit the driver to be extracted after a wreck.



#21 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 15:38

Im sure those things can be figured out. These canopies/advanced windscreens(why havent they just made massive windscreens?) only need to survive one incident. And it's an incident that's going to take the car out of the race, usually. Hypothetically Wilson might have had a messed up forward view, but that's better than the alternative.



#22 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 17:24

Yeah, these aren't roll hoops that need to withstand multiple impacts. They just need to deflect and dissipate enough that the helmet is enough to avoid injury really. The latch doesn't need to be bulletproof either, just enough to resist the aero forces trying to lift it in a spin.



#23 Sebas9031

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 22:59

Yeah, these aren't roll hoops that need to withstand multiple impacts. They just need to deflect and dissipate enough that the helmet is enough to avoid injury really. The latch doesn't need to be bulletproof either, just enough to resist the aero forces trying to lift it in a spin.

I agree with you if it is something done with minimal change to the aesthetics and performance to the car.



#24 Sebas9031

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 23:02

There have been a couple of incidents in open wheel racing (F1, Indy, etc) where drivers have been seriously injured by being hit by wreckage debris or even wild animals wandering onto the track. An enclosed cockpit would possibly have helped in most of these incidents. But using enclosed cockpits also creates other issues like extracting the driver after a crash, keeping the driver cool during a race in hot weather, keeping the windscreen clear during rain or from fogging inside, and ensuring the canopy structure will not cause injury to the driver from impacts.

These are some issues that need to be address before actually adding these enclosed cockpit. I am curious to see where these topic will end.