111 replies to this topic

[CountDooku]

So Lewis won the Italian GP but not only that, he topped every single session he participated in this weekend, won the face, had the fastest lap, and led every lap. P1, P2, P3, Q1, Q2, Pole, FL, RW, LEL.

 

Others have said Schumi did the same in Monaco 94, and apparently Mansell has done the same 3 times. Does anyone have the definitive stats for how many times this has happened? And the drivers involved?

 

I think this is the ultimate race-weekend record but can anyone think of other race weekend or season records that might top it? Excluding the obvious of course (poles, wins, consecutives etc).

[Nonesuch]

I'm not sure about Monaco 1994, but Schumacher did this in Australia 2004.

 

Häkkinen might have done this in Brazil 1998, but I can only find the aggregate practise results (he was fastest on Friday, Saturday and the Sunday Warm-up though).

 

Vettel was one free practise short of this in Singapore 2013, where Hamilton was fastest in FP1.

 

The folks in the Nostalgia Forum might know a bit more about the historic cases of this. Clark (8), Ascari (5), and Stewart (4) have had quite a few opportunities to accomplish - if we can call it that - this feat.

Edited by Nonesuch, 07 September 2015 - 09:04.

[Maustinsj]

Chelem?

[Marklar]

I'm not sure about Monaco 1994, but Schumacher did this in Australia 2004.

 

Häkkinen might have done this in Brazil 1998, but I can only find the aggregate practise results (he was fastest on Friday, Saturday and the Sunday Warm-up though).

 

Vettel was one free practise short of this in Singapore 2013, where Hamilton was fastest in FP1.

 

The folks in the Nostalgia Forum might know a bit more about the historic cases of this. Clark (8), Ascari (5), and Stewart (4) have had quite a few opportunities to accomplish - if we can call it that - this feat.

Nope, Montoya was fastest in the first qualifyng run.

[Fonzey]

Chelem?

 

Slam, as in - Grand Slam.

[Vitesse2]

Chelem?

Slam - particularly as defined in card games.

 

https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/chelem (definition in French)

 

http://f1.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Chelem

[molpid]

I'm not sure about Monaco 1994, but Schumacher did this in Australia 2004.

 

 

 

Montoya won Q1, so only Monaco 1994 for MS.

 

Marklar got there first.

Edited by molpid, 07 September 2015 - 09:12.

[ANF]

Does anyone have the definitive stats for how many times this has happened?

On the same subject: Is there any publication that has the results from every timed practice session at every grand prix?

[Vitesse2]

The folks in the Nostalgia Forum might know a bit more about the historic cases of this. Clark (8), Ascari (5), and Stewart (4) have had quite a few opportunities to accomplish - if we can call it that - this feat.

Not easy to identify in the pre-Bernie era, when qualification was a lot less formalised and there were so many variables: even leading drivers might not take part in every session (for all sorts of reasons - anything from a hangover to the car not turning up in time). A Grand Chelem is easy to identify - as the link I posted shows.

[CountDooku]

I'm not sure about Monaco 1994, but Schumacher did this in Australia 2004.

 

Häkkinen might have done this in Brazil 1998, but I can only find the aggregate practise results (he was fastest on Friday, Saturday and the Sunday Warm-up though).

 

Vettel was one free practise short of this in Singapore 2013, where Hamilton was fastest in FP1.

 

The folks in the Nostalgia Forum might know a bit more about the historic cases of this. Clark (8), Ascari (5), and Stewart (4) have had quite a few opportunities to accomplish - if we can call it that - this feat.

 

The ones in bold are only for Pole, RW, FL and LEL though. Did they top every practice, warm-up and qualifying session as well? The latter three are what turns it from a Grand Chelem to a Mega Chelem.

[DampMongoose]

As a season record to beat, Clark's 1965 year is far more impressive as an achievement for me than one weekend. Plenty or articles around on the subject but a few of the achievements...

 

Won the first 6 races that he entered of the World Drivers Championship with only 6 to count for a second 100% points record.  Didn't enter at Monaco as he was away winning the Indy 500. Also broke the lap record from a standing start at the Nurburgring on his way to winning the F1 race.  Won the Tasman Championship, the French F2 Championship, The British F2 championship, Won a couple of Touring car races in the British championship including where he won the 3 races he entered in F1, Sportscar and Saloon car races at Goodwood at the Easter meeting.  62 races in all categories, 32 wins and 40 podiums.  By April only, he had started 23 races, from pole 16 times and winning 15 of them.  Given the reliability of the cars back then I'd say that was quite some achievement.

[OO7]

As a season record to beat, Clark's 1965 year is far more impressive as an achievement for me than one weekend. Plenty or articles around on the subject but a few of the achievements...

 

Won the first 6 races that he entered of the World Drivers Championship with only 6 to count for a second 100% points record.  Didn't enter at Monaco as he was away winning the Indy 500. Also broke the lap record from a standing start at the Nurburgring on his way to winning the F1 race.  Won the Tasman Championship, the French F2 Championship, The British F2 championship, Won a couple of Touring car races in the British championship including where he won the 3 races he entered in F1, Sportscar and Saloon car races at Goodwood at the Easter meeting.  62 races in all categories, 32 wins and 40 podiums.  By April only, he had started 23 races, from pole 16 times and winning 15 of them.  Given the reliability of the cars back then I'd say that was quite some achievement.

That is an incredible record, no doubt about that.  I would say that Grand Chelems were perhaps easier back then, because the lack of pit stops (usually) prevented a leader from losing a lap/s (in the lead) and prevented cars from stealing fastest laps on fresher tyres.

[PlatenGlass]

I think it would also be interesting to have a category that doesn't include fastest lap since it's pretty meaningless. So pole, win, and lead every lap. But then leading every lap isn't necessarily enough. For me, they should lead the whole race, not just the end of each lap and it's possible to do the latter without the former. I'm not sure how common it would be but it's likely for someone to briefly lead from second after a good start but not keep it after turn one. Also if the top two pit together they might swap places briefly if the second driver's pit is in front.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 07 September 2015 - 12:26.

[CountDooku]

That is an incredible record, no doubt about that.  I would say that Grand Chelems were perhaps easier back then, because the lack of pit stops (usually) prevented a leader from losing a lap/s (in the lead) and prevented cars from stealing fastest laps on fresher tyres.

 

Good point. It would seem that the hardest era to get one would be in the refuelling era, where the guy who pits last keeps the lead, but the late pitter would also be the heaviest on fuel, making pole harder and more impressive if they get it.

[DampMongoose]

That is an incredible record, no doubt about that. I would say that Grand Chelems were perhaps easier back then, because the lack of pit stops (usually) prevented a leader from losing a lap/s (in the lead) and prevented cars from stealing fastest laps on fresher tyres.

Alternatively, the cars poorer reliability would be a deterrent to going for fastest laps or indeed pole on some occasions due to the increased circuit length at some venues.

[Afterburner]

As a season record to beat, Clark's 1965 year is far more impressive as an achievement for me than one weekend. Plenty or articles around on the subject but a few of the achievements...

Won the first 6 races that he entered of the World Drivers Championship with only 6 to count for a second 100% points record. Didn't enter at Monaco as he was away winning the Indy 500. Also broke the lap record from a standing start at the Nurburgring on his way to winning the F1 race. Won the Tasman Championship, the French F2 Championship, The British F2 championship, Won a couple of Touring car races in the British championship including where he won the 3 races he entered in F1, Sportscar and Saloon car races at Goodwood at the Easter meeting. 62 races in all categories, 32 wins and 40 podiums. By April only, he had started 23 races, from pole 16 times and winning 15 of them. Given the reliability of the cars back then I'd say that was quite some achievement.

This is why when the question of 'greatest driver ever' comes up, Jimmy is always at or near the front of my mental queue, no questions asked. It's definitely difficult to find people who come close to achievements on this scale.

[Atreiu]

Is it even really a thing or has this expression been created a few weeks ago to suit the situation? Free practice and provisional qualifying mean squat, which is why there is no serious stat associated with them.

 

I thought it stopped at the Grand Slam, pole, win, fastest lap and victory with every lap lead. Which are incredibly rare despite dominant cars happening ever so often.

Edited by Atreiu, 07 September 2015 - 13:17.

[CountDooku]

Is it even really a thing or has this expression been created a few weeks ago to suit the situation? Free practice and provisional qualifying mean squat, which is why there is no serious stat associated with them.

 

I thought it stopped at the Grand Slam, pole, win, fastest lap and victory with every lap lead. Which are incredibly rare despite dominant cars happening ever so often.

 

So leading every lap and having the fastest lap are meaningful? The reason I brought this up is because it was every single session led, which is even rarer than the Grand Slam.

 

It's only Monaco 94 that has definitively been shown as all sessions led.

[DampMongoose]

Not that some of these statistics mean a great deal at times, I'd suggest that Mansell at Silverstone in 1992 was a far more dominant display than Lewis at Monza.   Admitedly he had the best car as Lewis does, but his dominance and by significant margins that weekend was astonishing.  Unofficial lap record in first practice,  Another 1.3 seconds off that in first qualifying on the Friday, it rained for second Saturday quali so that was pole,  out qualifying Patrese in the other car by 1.9 seconds.  Fastest again on Sunday warm up and then in the race Patrese got the jump at the start but Mansell overtook him through Maggots and led by 3 seconds at the end of the first lap and then extended that until he was 20seconds up after 10 laps.  He then got fastest lap near the end by over 1.8 seconds from Schumacher. 

 

edit: typos

Edited by DampMongoose, 07 September 2015 - 14:17.

[YoungGun]

I would have considered it "Mega" if Hamilton would have set the best sector times too!

[DampMongoose]

Nothing is Mega when you have Wesley Snipes haircut from Demolition Man.

[1Devil1]

I would have considered it "Mega" if Hamilton would have set the best sector times too!

It's would have been only mega if he would driven one lap with close eyes. Never done before. I only can give him the super.

[George Costanza]

Michael Schumacher did it for the 1994 Monaco Grand Prix. Of course, Ayrton was not there, but I would believe if he was there, then he would have done it at the 1994 Monaco Grand Prix.

Edited by George Costanza, 07 September 2015 - 15:53.

[Gorma]

I would have considered it "Mega" if Hamilton would have set the best sector times too!

Well best sector times in each session and fastest top speeds also. 

[CountDooku]

Well best sector times in each session and fastest top speeds also. 

 

Now, now children, don't get carried away.

 

Does anyone have the definitive stats?

[OilFour]

It's would have been only mega if he would driven one lap with close eyes. Never done before. I only can give him the super.

i would have been impressed if he did a lap in reverse ... on 2 wheels!

 

Edit: spelling

Edited by OilFour, 07 September 2015 - 16:01.

[Gorma]

Now, now children, don't get carried away.

 

Does anyone have the definitive stats?

Well I think it's silly to list a thing like this as some sort of an achievement, because it is not something the people are trying to achieve during a weekend. A Grand Slam/Chelem I can understand since you aim to be on pole, you aim to lead every lap, you aim to be the fastest and you aim to win, but nobody sets out to be the fastest in practice sessions or even Q1 and Q2. They don't even use the fastest tyre and just try to get to the next session. 

[OO7]

Well I think it's silly to list a thing like this as some sort of an achievement, because it is not something the people are trying to achieve during a weekend. A Grand Slam/Chelem I can understand since you aim to be on pole, you aim to lead every lap, you aim to be the fastest and you aim to win,

Most drivers aim for Pole and the win.  Today, fastest lap and leading every lap is mostly out of the drivers control.

[Zava]

Well best sector times in each session and fastest top speeds also. 

and fastest pit stop!

 

1Devil1: already did it in monaco last year. 

[Frank Tuesday]

So Lewis won the Italian GP but not only that, he topped every single session he participated in this weekend, won the face, had the fastest lap, and led every lap. P1, P2, P3, Q1, Q2, Pole, FL, RW, LEL.

Others have said Schumi did the same in Monaco 94, and apparently Mansell has done the same 3 times. Does anyone have the definitive stats for how many times this has happened? And the drivers involved?

I think this is the ultimate race-weekend record but can anyone think of other race weekend or season records that might top it? Excluding the obvious of course (poles, wins, consecutives etc).

Sound like useless novelty triva to me. The goal of racing is to win. It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there. Your position in P1, P2, P3, Q1, Q2 are meaningless stats. FL is only moderately interesting.

[CountDooku]

Sound like useless novelty triva to me. The goal of racing is to win. It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there. Your position in P1, P2, P3, Q1, Q2 are meaningless stats. FL is only moderately interesting.

 

Sounds like poor logic to me. If "the goal of racing is to win", why do we care about pole, fastest lap or lead every lap?

 

Surely we should just look at wins and ignore everything else?

[Counterbalance]

I think the answer to the question is most likely no as people pop up giving their own definition of qualfying critiera  whenever such questions are asked. However, as I said in another thread, to top every practice session, qualifying, and set the fastest lap of the race in which led every single lap is a commendable achievement, so worthy of pretty much any accolades thrown at it. That is unti of course that someone adds another criteria to the definition.

 

Out of interest, does anyone have the stats for such an ahcievement, as I would think it's a very rare occurance.

[YoungGun]

Seb did it at both Singapore and Korea in 2013.

[OO7]

Seb did it at both Singapore and Korea in 2013.

But he didn't top all the practice sessions.

[YoungGun]

Practice sessions are about as valid as leading in winter testing. So on bragging rights you win.

[OO7]

Practice sessions are about as valid as leading in winter testing. So on bragging rights you win.

And that is exactly what is wrong with this thread, as I suspected.

[YoungGun]

And that is exactly what is wrong with this thread, as I suspected.

 

No, there is nothing wrong with this thread but to get credit you must also acknowledge what Seb did in Signapore and Korea back to back is also a remarkable accomplishment. Sound fair?

Edited by YoungGun, 07 September 2015 - 17:08.

[repete]

I am more surprised he hasn't done this multiple times this season, with that car, it is probably harder to not get it.

[OO7]

No, there is nothing wrong with this thread but to get credit you must also acknowledge what Seb did in Signapore and Korea back to back is also a remarkable accomplishment. Sound fair?

What Seb achieved in those races was remarkable, but that is not what this topic is about.  Whether you like it or not or find it interesting or not, this topic is about leading every session plus the Grand Chelem.

Edited by OO7, 07 September 2015 - 17:28.

[Dan333SP]

As a season record to beat, Clark's 1965 year is far more impressive as an achievement for me than one weekend. Plenty or articles around on the subject but a few of the achievements...

 

Won the first 6 races that he entered of the World Drivers Championship with only 6 to count for a second 100% points record.  Didn't enter at Monaco as he was away winning the Indy 500. Also broke the lap record from a standing start at the Nurburgring on his way to winning the F1 race.  Won the Tasman Championship, the French F2 Championship, The British F2 championship, Won a couple of Touring car races in the British championship including where he won the 3 races he entered in F1, Sportscar and Saloon car races at Goodwood at the Easter meeting.  62 races in all categories, 32 wins and 40 podiums.  By April only, he had started 23 races, from pole 16 times and winning 15 of them.  Given the reliability of the cars back then I'd say that was quite some achievement.

 

I wonder how many of the 22 races he didn't end up on the podium were mechanical DNFs? Knowing that stat may make '65 even more impressive.

[OO7]

I am more surprised he hasn't done this multiple times this season, with that car, it is probably harder to not get it.

I know, because it is common practice on race day, to lap over a second quicker than your team mate who is in P2 behind you.

Edited by OO7, 07 September 2015 - 17:24.

[Marklar]

and fastest pit stop!

 

1Devil1: already did it in monaco last year. 

And the best haircuit!

 

...so Lewis is out of the race for that....

[GTA]

If a driver/team decides to dedicate 1 practice session for long runs,  that driver/team will not top that session. However that driver/team may get enough data to win the race and lead every lap based on that practice session.

 

So if a driver/team wants to just show their dominance, this can be accomplished. We don't have a statistic which shows how many times a driver has topped friday practice 1 & 2 for this reason. 

 

Lewis did very well and congratulations to him, but I would consider the grand chelem to be the real statistic which he rightly achieved. Other than that one can add mega ,uber, super, outstanding adjectives to stuff like most questions asked during the post race conference or least number of times "for sure" used in the grid walk interview or BS of that sort. 

[YoungGun]

What Seb achieved in those race was remarkable, but that is not what this topic is about.  Whether you like it or not or find it interesting or not, this topic is about leading every session plus the Grand Chelem.

 

[Zava]

OK, mega chelem is done and dusted, so now I think we should lay down the rules for giga chelem so it is not thrown around easily!

 

 

I'll start:

-pole, win, FL, led all laps (grand chelem)

-led every session prior to the race (mega chelem)

-in the "best lap wins" format sessions (free practice 1-2-3, q 1-2-3), 3 purple sectors required all the time

-in the race, best straight line speed

-cutest smile on the podium

 

feel free to expand it!

[OO7]

Lewis did very well and congratulations to him, but I would consider the grand chelem to be the real statistic which he rightly achieved.

Yes we all know that Grand Chelem is the real, recorded stat.  CD was just having some fun using the term Mega Chelem, but call it what you will and like it or not, some of us are interested to knowing how many times a clean sweep weekend plus Grand Chelem has be accomplished.  And some of us were interested in this long before Sunday evening.

[OO7]

So far we have Monza 2015 and Monaco 1994.  Hakkinen came close one year (Hungary 1998?) when he topped the aggregated practice sessions, but not the individual sessions.

[TheBlackKnight]

So Lewis won the Italian GP but not only that, he topped every single session he participated in this weekend, won the face, had the fastest lap, and led every lap. P1, P2, P3, Q1, Q2, Pole, FL, RW, LEL.

 

Others have said Schumi did the same in Monaco 94, and apparently Mansell has done the same 3 times. Does anyone have the definitive stats for how many times this has happened? And the drivers involved?

 

I think this is the ultimate race-weekend record but can anyone think of other race weekend or season records that might top it? Excluding the obvious of course (poles, wins, consecutives etc).

My undertstanding is that Schumi did the Grand Chelem twice - once in Spain in the early 2000s. Senna did it 3 times I believe.

[TheBlackKnight]

So far we have Monza 2015 and Monaco 1994.  Hakkinen came close one year (Hungary 1998?) when he topped the aggregated practice sessions, but not the individual sessions.

 

He never came close in Hungary 1998 year as he didn't win the race or get the fastest lap. Schumacher won that race which, imo, is still one of the greatest drives, if not THE greatest drive in the history of the sport.

[RealRacing]

This is what happens when racing gets boring...