Jump to content


Photo

Mini Coopers in Australia


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 3,871 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 12 September 2015 - 04:40

OK so hopefully I don't live to regret starting this thread, but there is indeed many Mini enthusiasts amongst TNF with history of driving, racing in or against and even restoring Mini Coopers in Australia. The Australian-built cars from the first Morris Cooper 997cc of late 1962 cars through to the final 1971 Morris Cooper S differ to their English counterparts. Even more so as the years ticked by.

 

What follows is some waffle I wrote for the Mini Cooper Register's latest 'CooperWorld' magazine (that as I tap this, I'm yet to see). Then a couple of weeks ago I fluffed around with a blog, but I'm not sure I have the technical skills or the inclination to be a slave to a blog. So getting to the point, here's a bit about the Australian-built Cooper S,

 

 

 

It was late August that marked 50 years since 2 Australian-built Cooper S started racing and today almost exactly 50 years since the earliest of examples became available for keen enthusiasts to start driving them flat out everywhere. Despite the Australian Cooper S production being fragmented with many production changes, this feature’s main focus is to simply celebrate the fun car.

 

ccwp-mki-s-525-a.jpg?w=300&h=163

Restored 1965 BRG / Toga White roof example is a very early car – the 25th Cooper S BMC Australia built

 

ccwp-mki-s-525-b.jpg?w=300&h=201

The Aussie-pressed windup window doors showing the quarter vent windows and bootlid with the short numberplate holder to suit the local numberplate dimensions

 

 

The basics are the same, but the BMC Australia-built Morris Cooper S comes from a slightly different hymn book to the English version. The then Australian Government’s (impossible to achieve) target of 95% local content ‘Plan A’ policy with Australian car manufacturers saw to that.

 

ccwp-de-luxe.jpg?w=300&h=243

Without the Mini De Luxe, an Aussie Cooper S would have been hard to justify.

 

 

There’s no doubting that if it wasn’t for the ‘economy of scale’ relating to BMC Australia’s intended volume selling, £A833 Morris Mini De Luxe 998cc of March 1965, an Australian-built Cooper S wouldn’t have been viable. Despite its inspiration being the English Cooper S. Itself made available in very limited, fully imported numbers and usually with the first Cooper S 1071cc engine prior to the Australian car’s production. The imports carried a hefty premium price of £A1366 inc tax in 1963/64. Compared to the local car’s 1965 introduction price of £A1140 inc tax – becoming a straight doubling of that figure to $2280 when Australia took up decimal currency in February 1966. However by late 1965 an ‘import’ of the same basic specification would have equated to £A1650!

 

ccwp-bmc-ad.jpg?w=236&h=300

Even before the Aussie Cooper S was released BMC were running adverts using the likes of Brian Foley in the P & R Williams UK-built Cooper S to promote sales of the then 998 Morris Cooper.

 

 

With orders placed for the UK parent to start supplying the necessary components that would meld the major DNA of an English Cooper S into an Australian produced version. Five batches totalling 156 kits, fitting into the UK’s March 1965 chassis number sequences began their Australian journey to allow production to commence. Ultimately with Australia being the biggest producer of Cooper S outside the UK – 4986 built (ranging from car number YKG 2S2 501 to 5486) as MkI versions and 2419 built (ranging from car number YG 2S4 501 to 2919) as MkII (that still retained MkI style grille, rear window and rear tail lamps – available May 1969) throughout their 1965-1971 production life. Each version carries different identification to the English cars – that really takes some serious explaining. In basic terms the Australian cars carry YKG 2S2 listed as ‘TYPE’ on the IDENTIFICATION plate of the MkI S. The release of the MkII S saw a change to YG 2S4 to identify this model. But in BMC Australia’s wisdom these cars were produced without any official plate attached to them until on January 1, 1970 a COMPLIANCE plate became Australian Design Rules mandatory.

 

ccwp-mki-s-525-c.jpg?w=300&h=203

The restored engine bay of the 25th car – visually a lot of effort went into making it as close as possible to when new. This rare example still runs the rare 9 row oil cooler that mounts below the generator.

 

 

The most obvious UK-sourced DNA from the kits being the mechanical package, starting with the ever popular 9F/Sa/Y designated 1275cc (overpainted Metallic Green), 7.5inch disc brakes, LP883 4.5inch drilled steel road wheels (painted Silver Birch metallic, rather than UK’s Old English White), Hydrolastic displacers units (no ‘dry’ Aussie Cooper S), speedo/instrument cluster, heater and the standard fitment to Australian cars of the right hand fuel tank and oil cooler. It’s pretty common knowledge many things changed or were tweaked during these components production life for the English car. Filtering into changes on the Australian car as fresh batches arrived at Zetland. Or indeed superseded with locally-sourced items. Probably not so obvious to the owner of each new car at the time (and perhaps even with some owners now), but items like the 9 to 13 row oil cooler, Rubber to Hardy Spicer steel universals, the various Hydro displacers and the like, that evolved with this models production. As did, many items sourced within Australia to continue the ‘Plan A’ local content intentions and the regular ‘update’ manufacturers tend to give their cars to freshen the model. Variations (some evolving) away from the English car include front panel, bulkhead, floorpan, doors, door jambs, sills, bootlid & floor, ‘B’pillar, plus many other fiddly bits. Exterior and interior colours also relate major changes with both tone and pattern.

 

ccwp-mki-s-525-d.jpg?w=194&h=300

The restored interior of the 25th car. Porcelain Green trim works well with BRG. Early cars had Feltex loop pile carpet, green with a brown fleck would have been in this car when built – with replacement original carpet impossible to find now.

 

ccwp-mki-s-525-f.jpg?w=300&h=193

Continuing on from the trend set by the Aussie-built Morris Cooper of 997 or 998cc persuasion, the early Aussie Cooper S had the bootboard colour matched to the interior. With felt lining covering the boot floor between the tanks (and letting moisture gather). Felt was also applied to the underside of the rear parcel shelf.

 

 

So in reality there’s ‘no line in the sand’ point where things changed all at once they just evolved as those new or updated items were released to production. Lucas Australia provided a couple of examples in the form of ‘2 screw’ rear lamp cluster and ‘permanent magnet’ 12AUW round yoke wiper motor. Another way to get that little extra Australian content.

 

Although one could say in most basic terms the fitting of all the UK-sourced goodies into a ‘tweaked’ Mini De Luxe bodyshell created the Cooper S – there is more to it that just that. The tweaks mainly involve extra holes, brackets, clips and/or tabs. But in some instances even these evolved and their method of fitment can be all important. When new they differentiated an ‘S’ from a De Luxe or from May 1969, the Mini K. And they should still for genuine examples 50 years later.

 

ccwp-s-production.jpg?w=300&h=199

An early Cooper S on the Zetland production line, complete with vertical brace in the front panel. Most likely Toga White with Burgundy Red roof for this one.

 

 

The local BMC Engineers ability to create the Australian version as they did, allowed Marketing and the bean counters to, as already mentioned, sharpen the price significantly from that of an imported car. Mind you we are still talking £A307 price difference from ‘modest’ to ‘performance’ motoring. Introduction was around 5½ months between Mini De Luxe release and the proper availability of the Cooper S in September 1965. Later than anticipated due to holdups in production and leaving themselves with a reasonable amount of pressure to produce, deliver and allow Dealers’ road registration of 100 examples. The magic number required in 1965 for locally built cars’ eligibility for the October 3, 1965 Bathurst Armstrong 500 race meeting. The delay was enough for BMC to issue a News Bulletin (PR65/13) dated September 6, as the September 10, 1965 Bathurst’s official entry deadline loomed.

 

ccwp-bmc-news.jpg?w=244&h=300

Front page of the 6/9/65 issued BMC (Australia) News regaling the new Cooper S.

 

 

As an example, September 14, 1965 was the date of registration for the first example major Melbourne-based BMC Dealer, Kellow-Falkiner received. Taking into account the logistics of transporting the cars around Australia, the Australian Racing Drivers’ Club – the Armstrong 500 race organisers’ allowed some discretion come race day. Offset by the fact they wanted a ‘proper’ race of what was meant to be for production cars. It’s just that some received a bit more ‘careful production’ than others!

 

ccwp-lowood.jpg?w=167&h=300

Racing debut for the Aussie Cooper S at Queensland’s Lowood circuit. John French drove the Series Production Aussie Cooper S (top photo) to a class win. The bottom photos shows Bill Gates in #50 leading a Lotus Cortina. Natural competition for the Cooper S the world over.

 

 

Bathurst wasn’t the locally built cars’ debut race though as a couple of early examples had been whisked off to Queensland and raced at Lowood on August 29 with Bill Gates and John French given the honour to drive them. A quick sidenote being Gates was a capable driver of various marques and high profile Brisbane DJ, who helped the young Gibb brothers’ music career – aka the Bee Gees! BMC’s efforts prior to Bathurst were also helped by Sydney’s Warwick Farm circuit’s, Geoff Sykes running a special class for ‘cars awaiting homologation’ at his September 19 meeting. Strangely enough all 4 entries were Australian Cooper S – with at least 3 of them going to Bathurst too.

 

Without getting too tied down with the motor racing side of things, the 1965 Armstrong 500 wasn’t BMC’s year. The saturation was already beginning with nine of the 14 Class C entries Cooper S. The Class contested for cars priced between £A1021 & £A1300. BMC Australia’s effort provided 3 cars in that Class alone. Each of which having quality driver pairings such as Hopkirk/Makinen, Foley/Manton & French/Harvey. But they spent time trying to outdo each other, rather than the serious Class D Ford Cortina GT500 opposition. The Foley/Manton pair won their Class, although 2 GT500’s were ahead on the road for the spoils of victory. It did however mean a revamp in BMC’s driver structure come 1966!

 

What BMC Australia had done was provide a means for many enthusiasts to join various forms of motor sport. Or performance motoring for the road’s of Australia. Or indeed both! A bit of ‘Drive it like you stole it’ – long before the term became common vernacular. Any of the above, certainly gave reason for BMC Australia to modify their new car warranty policy from 12 to 6 months coverage. And yet they still wouldn’t fit a tacho as standard!

 

ccwp-02.jpg?w=277&h=300

BMC Rosette factory newspaper rev counter letter with the BMC spin on why they weren’t fitted

 

 

In period, BMC Australia sent new Cooper S to markets such as New Zealand and Papua New Guinea and cars are still moving about. Where once you could walk into the local BMC dealer and ultimately drive out the door with a new Cooper S, there really shouldn’t have been any identity issues then. But after the car’s often hard life, that heralded their owners’ high insurance premiums along the way. Meantime their car’s value declined. Followed years later with the steady increase in demand, they again rose in value. And as we all know as values increase, things can get interesting…

 

Whether it originated from England or Australia, the Cooper S has become a commodity that like so many ‘Hero’ cars of a particular generation is sought after. Meaning that for at least the last 20/25 years cars are keeping shipping companies busy as they are punted around the globe. There are certainly quite a number of Australian cars roaming the roads of northern hemisphere countries. Rather ironic really. But it can also bring about a darker side, that’s been about for years too – the fakes and replica cars. Some may well have been built innocently enough by someone without the finances to have the genuine example or a reshell due to rust or accident damage. I have no major problem with this when it is openly known. But they really can become an issue when these cars reach sale time as circumstance changes an owner’s outlook. Or these cars have passed through two or 3 owners, or even hit the stocklist of a Classic Car dealer and with a puff of fairy dust become genuine. Depending on how well executed, some can be spotted from 20 paces and others require a very keen eye. So ‘Buyer Beware’ and ‘Do Your Homework’ have exactly the same meaning regardless of original hemisphere.

 

There’s also cars with genuine period race history, that because of their racing days can be a bit of ‘Grandpa’s Axe’. Once upon a time these cars were quietly sold on to an unsuspecting candidate as they’d been returned to road car duty. Because lets face it, as an old race car they had about as much worth as an old taxi! Meaning often the race history was quickly lost. Going the full circle now of course cars with ‘bona-fide’ race history have become sought after. With re-inventing of history also part of today’s equation to up the value or prestige. Of course that can apply to so many marques, but again do your homework if you’re about to hand over the hard earned.

 

ccwp-police-cooper-s.jpg?w=300&h=183

Coppers in Coopers - one of 3 early Cooper S deployed by the ACT Police Force in late 1965.

 

 

Also with an ‘It takes one to catch one’ ethos BMC Australia ended up with a pretty good gig supplying Cooper S to Police Forces. Mainly to the New South Wales Police where they managed to sign up over 10% of Australian Cooper S production for duty. Stuffing a burly copper in a Cooper S in an attempt to keep some form of decorum on the roads. Forty-Five and 50 years later these are also sought after and also require a keen eye to identify ‘genuine’ Police examples that were sent off to Government auctions after their ‘use by’ mileage was quickly realised.

 

ccwp-mki-s-525-e.jpg?w=300&h=202

How did these survive… The dizzy heights of 1960s tyre technology. Dunlop’s radial ply SP41 145 x 10 – standard rubber for the Aussie S and first Australian car to use them.

 

Stephen


Edited by cooper997, 25 February 2017 - 00:29.


Advertisement

#2 coatesie

coatesie
  • New Member

  • 12 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 23 September 2015 - 06:11

Nice summary Stephen. As a long-term collector and restorer I agree, buyer beware with these things. Its relatively easy to fake an S and also relatively easy to cover up bodgy repairs as well. The bodies despite being monocoque lack rigidity and even a small bingle can leave them quite twisted and difficult to repair. .G.



#3 KBY191

KBY191
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: June 15

Posted 24 September 2015 - 20:51

As a callow youth l purchased a BRG 1966 Cooper S for $1,700, Vic reg JRY-2**. An original, one owner car which l then proceeded to modify in accordance with David Vizards "How to modify your Mini".  Original engine out and sold, in with the 1400 and something cc screamer based on a Clubman block with offset ground crank, Triumph pistons, offset rockers, fume spitting 45 DCOE Weber, straight cut box, widened steelies and wheel arch flares.  Seemed an excellent plan at the time!

Eventually folded a wheel under, broke the gearbox and extension housing and bent the floor understeering off the road at some speed. That was about the time l decided that my limited driving skills were better explored at the wheel of a Group N GT Cortina.

Enjoyed my Cooper S days and apologies to any modern day restorer who has to undo all my “improvements”


Edited by KBY191, 24 September 2015 - 21:17.


#4 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 24 September 2015 - 22:41

Replicas and 'dodgey' cars cover every remotely collectable model ofcourse.

When I was a very young bloke I wanted a Cooper S. Though soon grew out of that!

I have driven a few real and mock ups and just plain hotties and the performance was good, though noisy little things. A pair of ram tubes where the speedo should be makes them real noisy!

The first KA Laser [Used car] I ever owned was a quick torque steering little pig that nearly killed me! [  Deceleration steer almost had me hit a bus. And I was not driving that hard!]   I visited a friend who had a mildly modified late Cooper S. The Mini had far better manners though was a deal noisier. And the Mini had Minilites and the wide Bridgestones that were common at the time. The Laser was the twin carb model.



#5 ed holly

ed holly
  • Member

  • 387 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 24 September 2015 - 23:37

Stephen

 

Do you know how many 997 Coopers came into the country ? It is often written now that the long stroke 997 wasn't as good as the later 998 engine but that was not my experience by a long shot. Didn't like the square box heater in the early Coopers, but now wouldn't mind it at all ...

 

 I had one, I think a 62 model ( with long rear number plate) in 65 and it was arguably the best car I ever had. Then a 998 64 model  which was terrible, engine no. YSAH1474 - then a 65 Cooper S in 68 white with a maroon roof that suffered terribly from kero at Mascot airport. Engine no. of the 68 was 9FSAY40295. Still have the NRMA insurance papers for the latter two ! The S used to hose off 186S Monaro's no trouble !



#6 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 25 September 2015 - 03:54

Stephen

 

Do you know how many 997 Coopers came into the country ? It is often written now that the long stroke 997 wasn't as good as the later 998 engine but that was not my experience by a long shot. Didn't like the square box heater in the early Coopers, but now wouldn't mind it at all ...

 

 I had one, I think a 62 model ( with long rear number plate) in 65 and it was arguably the best car I ever had. Then a 998 64 model  which was terrible, engine no. YSAH1474 - then a 65 Cooper S in 68 white with a maroon roof that suffered terribly from kero at Mascot airport. Engine no. of the 68 was 9FSAY40295. Still have the NRMA insurance papers for the latter two ! The S used to hose off 186S Monaro's no trouble !

186S Monaros are not very quick! Most sporty small cars should have done that. 

The Monaro though is a far nicer highway cruiser and probably quicker when pulling out to overtake on the highway too.



#7 2Bob

2Bob
  • Member

  • 581 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 25 September 2015 - 05:16

This is one Cooper S that shouldn't turn up again:

 

HIk38S.jpg

 

 

YmSG94.jpg

 

1967/8 Australian Cooper S with Hydrolastic suspension, (disconnected front to rear - don't need shockers then).  Body was scrapped after this.  Already had cracked cylinder head and broken crankshaft, was running at this meeting with borrowed engine and gearbox (not damaged thank dog)!  Sold s/c gearbox with LSD for just enough money to pay of hire purchase. 

 

Don't know the photographer for the above2  photos.  Following are from John Lemm (I hope you don't mind John).

 

 

kJoDyn.jpg
bcXcYB.jpg
 
Above shows the late Tom Galbraith (owner of Motorlab and my sponsor) looking inside and Jim Doig, also sponsored by Motorlab, striding of to the left

Edited by 2Bob, 25 September 2015 - 05:40.


#8 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 3,871 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 25 September 2015 - 06:21

There is some familiar themes coming through with the responses. Coatsie's comment of the bodgy repairs is indeed true. but that cam be said with any marque. Over the 'worthless' years many got wrecked for their S engine, S disc brakes and RH tank. I well remember the story told to me years ago when a high profile Victorian Mini racer had a Cooper S with not a lot wrong with it, other than the fact that his then young kids had jumped on the roof. So the good bits were liberated from the car and the shell went for scrap. Minis rust even in Australia, but often nowhere near as bad as the UK cars. Again I've seen and heard of better cars being thrown away, than the English restore and still try to say it's the original shell.

 

KBY191 must have kept a Mini specialist of 2 in business with the spec of his car. I'm guessing late 70s/ early 80s when that was happening. Photos please.

 

Lee, Minis are meant to be noisy. KBY's car would have made all the right politically incorrect noises to get the blood moving. Everybody has just gone soft with later model cars. I reckon a twin carb Laser is a harder car to find than a Cooper S these days. And they're not exactly plentiful anymore. Besides, I know which one is worth the effort to have now.

 

Ed, your story is similar to other enthusiasts where they started with a Coopers of 997 or 998 capacity before either slotting a 1275 into their car or lashing out on a Cooper S and starting afresh. Most who pick on the 997 and indeed the small disc brakes probably have no experience with them. Your 997 must have been quite an early car with the 2 part heater, Then your 998 must have been quite late in the run. As that engine number (9Y/Sa/H 1474) tell's me it was the 474th engine of the Australian batch. Essentially the Morris Cooper's built in Sydney are broken down into about 2800 as 997 and about 1100 of the 998 Morris Cooper. With around a 50/50 split between the 998's whether it carried the English 9Fa/Sa/L number or the 9Y/Sa/H unit previously mentioned.

 

Regardless, an Australian built Morris Cooper of either variety is rare. They actually make a Cooper S seem reasonably common.

 

Ed, if of interest to you, pm me your email so I can forward you a feature with far more detail on the 997/998 in Australia

 

In fact photos and more personal anecdotes are most welcome to add here.

 

Stephen



#9 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 25 September 2015 - 10:09

There is some familiar themes coming through with the responses. Coatsie's comment of the bodgy repairs is indeed true. but that cam be said with any marque. Over the 'worthless' years many got wrecked for their S engine, S disc brakes and RH tank. I well remember the story told to me years ago when a high profile Victorian Mini racer had a Cooper S with not a lot wrong with it, other than the fact that his then young kids had jumped on the roof. So the good bits were liberated from the car and the shell went for scrap. Minis rust even in Australia, but often nowhere near as bad as the UK cars. Again I've seen and heard of better cars being thrown away, than the English restore and still try to say it's the original shell.

 

KBY191 must have kept a Mini specialist of 2 in business with the spec of his car. I'm guessing late 70s/ early 80s when that was happening. Photos please.

 

Lee, Minis are meant to be noisy. KBY's car would have made all the right politically incorrect noises to get the blood moving. Everybody has just gone soft with later model cars. I reckon a twin carb Laser is a harder car to find than a Cooper S these days. And they're not exactly plentiful anymore. Besides, I know which one is worth the effort to have now.

 

Ed, your story is similar to other enthusiasts where they started with a Coopers of 997 or 998 capacity before either slotting a 1275 into their car or lashing out on a Cooper S and starting afresh. Most who pick on the 997 and indeed the small disc brakes probably have no experience with them. Your 997 must have been quite an early car with the 2 part heater, Then your 998 must have been quite late in the run. As that engine number (9Y/Sa/H 1474) tell's me it was the 474th engine of the Australian batch. Essentially the Morris Cooper's built in Sydney are broken down into about 2800 as 997 and about 1100 of the 998 Morris Cooper. With around a 50/50 split between the 998's whether it carried the English 9Fa/Sa/L number or the 9Y/Sa/H unit previously mentioned.

 

Regardless, an Australian built Morris Cooper of either variety is rare. They actually make a Cooper S seem reasonably common.

 

Ed, if of interest to you, pm me your email so I can forward you a feature with far more detail on the 997/998 in Australia

 

In fact photos and more personal anecdotes are most welcome to add here.

 

Stephen

There is one twin carb Meteor [Laser Sedan] left in existence. I had a chap who wanted a tailight for one this week. 

Far more Minis around than Lasers now.

I may have seen one or two on the Bay to Birdwood this weekend but that is still for cars pre 78!  Where it used to be for 30y/o cars.

Wake up SA Govt and the B to B committee. 

There will be a horde of Minis though as usual.



#10 seldo

seldo
  • Member

  • 2,600 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 25 September 2015 - 13:47

There is one twin carb Meteor [Laser Sedan] left in existence. ......

Hallelujah

#11 ellrosso

ellrosso
  • Member

  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 29 September 2015 - 08:22

Here is another trashed Cooper S from Baskerville in 1970. Randall Bromfield borrowed Bob Kent's 1310 S for a few laps in practice - lost it at the bottom of the hill....1490-H-Mini-70-lo.jpg1488-H-Mini-70-lo_1.jpg1489-H-Mini-70-lo.jpg



#12 KBY191

KBY191
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: June 15

Posted 29 September 2015 - 10:19

 

KBY191 must have kept a Mini specialist of 2 in business with the spec of his car. I'm guessing late 70s/ early 80s when that was happening. Photos please.

 

From the archives; engine bay repaint before the new 1400CC engine went in. Had to enlarge the speedo cut out to fit the air cleaner, but couldn't fit the speedo cable back in afterwards.

Little wonder the cabin would fill with fumes and the induction noise was formidable. Brilliant stuff!

The old Morewll Hillclimb track about 1980, l think that was the day the generator fried, but we still made it home on the battery.

Mk II bonnet badge was there when l purchased the car although it was a 1966 build.

 

411693385.jpg

 

411693386.jpg


Edited by KBY191, 30 September 2015 - 01:16.


#13 stuartbrs

stuartbrs
  • Member

  • 801 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 30 September 2015 - 05:59

For many years I had a genuine Cooper S shell sitting in my garage. I bought it in the early 90`s for $20 as it was destined for the crusher. Everything had been stripped, including the compliance plate. The only thing wrong with it was the usual rust in the sills. I had planned on building something interesting with it but finally sold it as I needed the space in the shed for the cars that actually worked. I sold it for $100 in about 2001, so a quadrupled my money :) Best car deal I ever did!  :drunk:

 

The red car in my avatar was a genuine Mini-matic, zero rust, but didnt run. It was the first car I ever bought.. the first thing I did was sell the engine, gearbox, and subframe from it... probably not something you would do now. Mini-matics are if nothing else, an interesting car. I then did the usual Mini thing and built a Cooper S replica, but using a bored out 1100. Like all Mini`s though, it wore out very quickly.. I sold it only a few years ago (after it languished in the shed) to fund my 1966 911.

 

I drove Mini`s for many years, and I would certainly like another one, but now that I`m older and less dumb I sit in them and think how dangerous they feel. 



#14 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 30 September 2015 - 06:40

This thread seems to be about trashing Mini Coopers!

And yes the few times I have sat in one I feel decidedly insecure. Looking up at trucks and looking at a door skin that is the entire side intrusion protection.

Still a fun thing to drive [when they actually work properly] when there is no other vehicles about.

I raced against the Super Minis when they were around,, Reg Taylor from Newcastle? discovered me in the way and hit me, the car stopped. It pushed the uni filters down the ram tubes! Though Minis do not handle like other cars!  Back off and they spin! Or go straight ahead! The reason he hit me.



#15 GMACKIE

GMACKIE
  • Member

  • 13,102 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:48

"Back off and they spin!"...sounds a bit familiar, Lee! :blush:



#16 ellrosso

ellrosso
  • Member

  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 30 September 2015 - 10:20

Here are a few which aren't trashed. Arguably the quickest Cooper S punters of the period. Laurie Stewart in the quickest 1100 S behind Brian Foley at Warwick Farm in 1967 too. Peter Manton at Baskerville in 1965 - established the Touring Car outright record at this meeting. He was a big drawcard back in the day - huge crowd turned out to see him.

Foley leading Geoghegan at W Farm in 1969

and Peter Manton leading Beechey at Calder in 19701071-H-Mant-65-lo.jpg1069-H-Grid-65-lo.jpg9181_F_Foley_69.jpg10058_F_Mant_70-lo.jpg8926_F_Minis_67-lo.jpg


Edited by ellrosso, 30 September 2015 - 10:25.


#17 2Bob

2Bob
  • Member

  • 581 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 30 September 2015 - 21:36

Back off and they spin! Or go straight ahead!

 

The technique is to back off until they are a bit sideways and then put the foot down a little to correct the sideways motion and line up to  to hit the apex when the foot goes right down.  Or something like that.  Not too hard in the dry but can be a bit tricky in the wet.... 



#18 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 30 September 2015 - 22:59

Here are a few which aren't trashed. Arguably the quickest Cooper S punters of the period. Laurie Stewart in the quickest 1100 S behind Brian Foley at Warwick Farm in 1967 too. Peter Manton at Baskerville in 1965 - established the Touring Car outright record at this meeting. He was a big drawcard back in the day - huge crowd turned out to see him.

Foley leading Geoghegan at W Farm in 1969

and Peter Manton leading Beechey at Calder in 19701071-H-Mant-65-lo.jpg1069-H-Grid-65-lo.jpg9181_F_Foley_69.jpg10058_F_Mant_70-lo.jpg8926_F_Minis_67-lo.jpg

Is it my imagination or does both the green #8 and Mantons Shell Mini have the left doors tied shut?  The #8 seems to have a piece of red cord [and no rear side glass] and Mantons seems to have the end of a strap. 

I know Mini doors never stay closed under a shunt but it does seem a bit extreme.



#19 smeetsie

smeetsie
  • Member

  • 74 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 01 October 2015 - 05:29

When Group N first started, I located a 1963 UK Morris Cooper S not far from my home in Hawthorndene SA. It was the real thing. 1071cc, one tank, sliding windows, no heater. I rebuilt it for racing with the help of Ken Leigh, and raced it at Winton, Collingrove, Mallala and Adelaide International raceway, with quite some success, considering I weighed 16 and a half stone at the time!! Sadly the chassis plates were missing as they had been lent to 2Bob and his Motorlab mini punters. My old car is now with a collector in Tasmania and has featured in the BMC magazine a few times.  In later years I had the opportunity to purchase the fully restored Cyrill Nancarrow 1275 UK Cooper S that raced in SA and Vic.. That had all the paperwork with it to verify modification by the factory for racing at the MG division. Genuine early English cars are easily identified by the indented slots in the roof gutters, wide number plates in the boot, and the unique sliding windows with bakelite rocker style locks - and only open or closed positions. Henry Draper at Winton back in the 80's tried to tell me how valuable and rare my car was............I swapped a Mk3 Red Sprite for it (that cost me $1000), but spent quite a bit on the Ken Leigh 9000 rpm motor, a straight cut c/r gearbox, LSD and alloy roll cage. Best successes were holding the outright Group N record at Collingrove for 4 years (until David Jarrett built a 1275 racer), and winning Group N handicap at winton in 1983, in the dark and pouring rain, and having to pass most of the field ( I was 6th in the scratch races), and passed the last car an FJ Holden coming out of the esses with Henry Draper up my skirt!!  I think the extra weight and the 40lbs I put in the tyres (on Ken Leigh's advice) helped a lot that day.

Regards

Pete S.



Advertisement

#20 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,227 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 01 October 2015 - 20:25

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
Is it my imagination or does both the green #8 and Mantons Shell Mini have the left doors tied shut?  The #8 seems to have a piece of red cord [and no rear side glass] and Mantons seems to have the end of a strap. 
I know Mini doors never stay closed under a shunt but it does seem a bit extreme.


Keen eye there, Lee...

The straps are visible in all the photos of those cars. But not, by the look of things, on Laurie Stewart's. I wonder if they were fitted at the request of scrutineers after crashes? Again, I'm away from home, but I'm wondering if the pic on the cover of RCN (about September '65?) showing Manton's huge rollover at the Farm shows the doors opening?

#21 coatesie

coatesie
  • New Member

  • 12 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 01 October 2015 - 20:59

When Group N first started, I located a 1963 UK Morris Cooper S not far from my home in Hawthorndene SA. It was the real thing. 1071cc, one tank, sliding windows, no heater. I rebuilt it for racing with the help of Ken Leigh, and raced it at Winton, Collingrove, Mallala and Adelaide International raceway, with quite some success, considering I weighed 16 and a half stone at the time!! Sadly the chassis plates were missing as they had been lent to 2Bob and his Motorlab mini punters. My old car is now with a collector in Tasmania and has featured in the BMC magazine a few times.  In later years I had the opportunity to purchase the fully restored Cyrill Nancarrow 1275 UK Cooper S that raced in SA and Vic.. That had all the paperwork with it to verify modification by the factory for racing at the MG division. Genuine early English cars are easily identified by the indented slots in the roof gutters, wide number plates in the boot, and the unique sliding windows with bakelite rocker style locks - and only open or closed positions. Henry Draper at Winton back in the 80's tried to tell me how valuable and rare my car was............I swapped a Mk3 Red Sprite for it (that cost me $1000), but spent quite a bit on the Ken Leigh 9000 rpm motor, a straight cut c/r gearbox, LSD and alloy roll cage. Best successes were holding the outright Group N record at Collingrove for 4 years (until David Jarrett built a 1275 racer), and winning Group N handicap at winton in 1983, in the dark and pouring rain, and having to pass most of the field ( I was 6th in the scratch races), and passed the last car an FJ Holden coming out of the esses with Henry Draper up my skirt!!  I think the extra weight and the 40lbs I put in the tyres (on Ken Leigh's advice) helped a lot that day.

Regards

Pete S.

Pete, 

The Nancarrow car came up recently after I had been chasing it around to add to the collection of mini race cars I have been putting together. I asked a few too many questions and somebody knew where it was and the next thing it was in their garage. The car is undergoing a restoration I believe.

G.



#22 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 01 October 2015 - 22:55

Keen eye there, Lee...

The straps are visible in all the photos of those cars. But not, by the look of things, on Laurie Stewart's. I wonder if they were fitted at the request of scrutineers after crashes? Again, I'm away from home, but I'm wondering if the pic on the cover of RCN (about September '65?) showing Manton's huge rollover at the Farm shows the doors opening?

Watching those early Minis crash/ roll has always been a lather of flying door and sometimes bootlids too.

Even that start line shunt at PI this year has a Mini bootlid sliding down the track.

That does not inspire confidence to drive one!



#23 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 01 October 2015 - 22:56

 

This is one Cooper S that shouldn't turn up again:

 

HIk38S.jpg

 

 

YmSG94.jpg

 

1967/8 Australian Cooper S with Hydrolastic suspension, (disconnected front to rear - don't need shockers then).  Body was scrapped after this.  Already had cracked cylinder head and broken crankshaft, was running at this meeting with borrowed engine and gearbox (not damaged thank dog)!  Sold s/c gearbox with LSD for just enough money to pay of hire purchase. 

 

Don't know the photographer for the above2  photos.  Following are from John Lemm (I hope you don't mind John).

 

 

kJoDyn.jpg
bcXcYB.jpg
 
Above shows the late Tom Galbraith (owner of Motorlab and my sponsor) looking inside and Jim Doig, also sponsored by Motorlab, striding of to the left

 

This is a record I think. A posted pic disapears in a week!



#24 2Bob

2Bob
  • Member

  • 581 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 02 October 2015 - 02:47

This is a record I think. A posted pic disapears in a week!

 Weird, most of my photos are still there, a few aren't!  I actually paid some sort of fee to ImageShack awhile back - don't know how long that was supposed to apply for and can't see where to check - will try a bit harder to find out!



#25 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:06

 Weird, most of my photos are still there, a few aren't!  I actually paid some sort of fee to ImageShack awhile back - don't know how long that was supposed to apply for and can't see where to check - will try a bit harder to find out!

Use Post Image. At this point free. And user friendly for technophobes like myself.



#26 Mini63

Mini63
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 25 May 2016 - 21:29

Is this at Mallala in SA?



#27 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,227 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 25 May 2016 - 21:44

If you mean the pics above, I'm sure the answer is 'yes'...

'Motorlab' is/was an SA entrant, Lee is from SA, all of that stuff.

#28 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 25 May 2016 - 23:46

Here is another trashed Cooper S from Baskerville in 1970. Randall Bromfield borrowed Bob Kent's 1310 S for a few laps in practice - lost it at the bottom of the hill....1490-H-Mini-70-lo.jpg1488-H-Mini-70-lo_1.jpg1489-H-Mini-70-lo.jpg

Randall Bromfield was a speedway sedan racer,,,He may have got lost turning right at pace!



#29 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 25 May 2016 - 23:51

Is this at Mallala in SA?

Yes, 2bob Collinson is a South Aussie as am I.

I never raced Mallala before it closed. In fact I ever only attended once before it closed,,then an epic trip for a young bloke in a worn out FE Holden. Now a 50min commute!



#30 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 25 May 2016 - 23:58

One thing, I recently had a BMC purist here. He said correctly that a Cooper S is a Morris Cooper S, not a Mini. Pedantic I know. But many collectors of various models can and will be. FX Holden was never a model,, 48 215 is the correct term.

I was discussing all the different engines, long stroke short stoke etc, left me dizzy. Though I always had some idea.

The only ones I have ever driven have been 1275 later model ones.



#31 TerryS

TerryS
  • Member

  • 968 posts
  • Joined: March 16

Posted 26 May 2016 - 14:55

Hi Stephen

Before the Morris Cooper S in Australia there was the Morris Cooper, no S. DO you know the story/details of that?

#32 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,227 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 26 May 2016 - 21:59

Morris Cooper...

It was a long-stroke motor of 997cc, unlike the shorter-stroked 998 engine which came along later. No Hydrolastic, sliding windows, little disc brakes on the front.

#33 Ian G

Ian G
  • Member

  • 1,395 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 26 May 2016 - 23:36

Morris Cooper...

It was a long-stroke motor of 997cc, unlike the shorter-stroked 998 engine which came along later. No Hydrolastic, sliding windows, little disc brakes on the front.

Yeah,they also got the 998cc engine for a year or 2,slightly different bore/stroke again.I purchased(& sold) some competition pistons for them when the local BMC dealer closed in the late 1960's.

Although there is plenty of Info. on the net many still don't realise there was a 970cc Cooper S early on as well,they were imports and badged 'Austin Cooper S' and created a lot of interest when they turned up at Warwick Farm around 1965/66.


Edited by Ian G, 27 May 2016 - 04:54.


#34 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 3,871 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 27 May 2016 - 01:15

Hi Stephen

Before the Morris Cooper S in Australia there was the Morris Cooper, no S. DO you know the story/details of that?

 

Yes Terry, I have gathered details about 997 and 998 Morris Cooper built in Australia over the years. But my interests have also expanded somewhat. They are much rarer than Cooper S, even more so with their original engines. The 997 was the more common version in Australia, but never plentiful like Cooper S and despite the 998 version being built for way longer in the UK.

 

For Lee, pedantic customers aside, Mini Cooper S is the generic term. As other countries had Austin versions. Not officiallly sold in Australia though. But they were built at BMC Australia's plant at Zetland for the NZ market.

 

Of the 5 engine capacities BMC offered for Cooper/ Cooper S, Aussies could buy all but the 970 version officially. Although the 1071 was a rare beast here even when new.

 

Now Aussie-built Mini Cooper and Cooper S are scattered arround the globe.

 

Stephen



#35 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,227 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 27 May 2016 - 09:00

Strangely enough, I used Mini Cooper calipers when I put disc brakes on my Hustler...

They were tiny things, but available very cheaply if you wanted only left-hand ones. I don't know why there was a huge surplus of left-hand ones, but the BMC leftover stock resellers had plenty of them and none for the right.

This was in 1972, so about eight years after they went out of production.

By the way, I don't recall any 970 versions being sold in Australia, though I think there might have been one race. From memory we didn't have a class to suit, unlike England (Europe) where there was a 1000cc class. Our classes were 1100 and 1300cc.

I also recall that the way-less-undersquare 970 engine was built with Formula Junior use in mind...

#36 Billm44

Billm44
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: February 21

Posted 07 February 2021 - 22:16

Hi. I have a Australian Mini Cooper .  Model #... YKA2S1.. Car #.... 4049… Engine #...9y/SA/H 1216. (The motor has been replaced with a Cooper Mk2 1295 bored to 1380)  I would like to know more detail of this car i.e. approximate build date (The wiper motor is stamped 6/64), and the number of this model were produced and over what period etc. any info will be appreciated.


Edited by Billm44, 08 February 2021 - 04:20.


#37 Ian G

Ian G
  • Member

  • 1,395 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 07 February 2021 - 22:47

Welcome.....i was involved with Mini's/BMC parts from the late 1960's to early 70's but completely out of date now,someone should Post more relevant facts soon.  



#38 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 11,061 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 08 February 2021 - 22:20

 

This is one Cooper S that shouldn't turn up again:

 

HIk38S.jpg

 

 

YmSG94.jpg

 

1967/8 Australian Cooper S with Hydrolastic suspension, (disconnected front to rear - don't need shockers then).  Body was scrapped after this.  Already had cracked cylinder head and broken crankshaft, was running at this meeting with borrowed engine and gearbox (not damaged thank dog)!  Sold s/c gearbox with LSD for just enough money to pay of hire purchase. 

 

Don't know the photographer for the above2  photos.  Following are from John Lemm (I hope you don't mind John).

 

Having seen the stupid money  paid recently for a basket case 66 Austin Cooper you should have kept the shell.

Watching a clip on You Tube about a  totally rusted out, read r/f guard was gone, l/f was nearly gone, no bottom, little sills, roof rusted and the engine  and gearbox [original] in no better condition and it made,,,,,,, 18000 pounds. This in England. I believe only several months ago

The new owner was talking about reshelling it,, 10 thousand quid and it is then just another replica even if the original mechanicals can be saved which I doubt

 

So Bob your dented body shell a far better proposition to rebuild.

 

 

kJoDyn.jpg
bcXcYB.jpg
 
Above shows the late Tom Galbraith (owner of Motorlab and my sponsor) looking inside and Jim Doig, also sponsored by Motorlab, striding of to the left

 



#39 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 3,871 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 08 February 2021 - 22:49

Hi. I have a Australian Mini Cooper .  Model #... YKA2S1.. Car #.... 4049… Engine #...9y/SA/H 1216. (The motor has been replaced with a Cooper Mk2 1295 bored to 1380)  I would like to know more detail of this car i.e. approximate build date (The wiper motor is stamped 6/64), and the number of this model were produced and over what period etc. any info will be appreciated.

 

Billm44, despite thousands of 998 Coopers built in the UK, BMC (Australia) only built about 1100 examples here. Pretty much split 50/50 between those with an English engine number prefix of 9Fa/Sa/L and those of the Australian number of 9Y/Sa/H. Yours being the later.

 

Your codes/numbers quoted tell me it's a last quarter 1964 build (car number 4096 is said to be the first car built in 1965). The radiator cowl should have the BMC (Aust) production code and body number too.  Original engine number you quote was the 216th engine and like many of these Coopers has been fitted with a later 1275 based engine. It should have sliding window doors and matching shell. Door jambs and striker plate areas are different on wind-up window shells. It's a very rare car these days.

 

I have an article I wrote the better part of 20 years ago that goes into much more detail. Happy to send to you, message me via the TNF 'pm' system with your email address or if you're feeling brave enough to post it here.

 

 

Stephen



Advertisement

#40 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,227 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 09 February 2021 - 14:36

Were not the original Mini Coopers 997cc?

 

From memory, there were Cooper S models of 970cc, 1071cc and 1275cc. The Mini Deluxe was 998cc.



#41 Billm44

Billm44
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: February 21

Posted 09 February 2021 - 21:11

Information that I have is that the original Mini Cooper (before the Cooper S) there were approximately 3888 produced in Australia 2800 of them..997,s and 1100 of them..998,s.



#42 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 80,227 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 09 February 2021 - 22:20

I'd agree that it was quite likely that they switched to the 998 engine, probably when production of the Mini Deluxe began...

 

It was a shorter stroke, wasn't it?



#43 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 3,871 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 09 February 2021 - 23:24

The 998 Cooper took over from the 997 during October 1963 in the UK. This then filtered through to the Australian production once the first batch arrived (sent from the UK late November 1963) to be randomly installled. As such, long stroke 997 engined cars were still being shuffled down BMC (Aust) Zetland production line during and after the first lot of 998's had begun being fitted to cars.

 

This was all over 12 months before the 998 Mini De Luxe was officially released in late March 1965. That would become the volume seller that helped them justify production of the Australian-built Cooper S that came out that September.

 

 

Stephen



#44 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 6,772 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 10 February 2021 - 07:13

The Australian 998 Cooper with the 9Y/Sa/H engine number prefix was related to the beginning of local assembly of the Morris 1100 in early 1964.

The 998 is simply a 1098 with a different crank and pistons. The Cooper got a few other goodies like a close ratio gearbox and a better cylinder head.

There was three different engine number prefixes on the Australian Cooper...
9F/Sa/L = 997cc (ex UK)
9FA/Sa/L = 998cc (ex UK)
9Y/Sa/H = 998cc (Australian assembled)



#45 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 6,772 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 10 February 2021 - 08:06

John Sneddon's book 'Australian Mini and Moke' gives the introduction of the 9Y/Sa/H engine as September 1964 and production ending in December 1964.

He has total Australian Mini Cooper production as 4176 between November 1962 and December 1964. (which is about 300 cars more that I thought)
He breaks it down as approx...
9F/Sa/L  = 2874
9FA/Sa/L = 476
9Y/Sa/H = 817



#46 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 3,871 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 10 February 2021 - 09:44

Michael, 4176 or 4167? I've seen the high build numbers quoted before, usually in a Shannons auction blurb when they're trying to flog a Mini Cooper.

 

However, 27 years ago I came across the highest car numbered Morris Cooper I'm aware of - YKA 2S1 4365 in country Victoria (so the 3865th built and should put it within the last 25). By pure co-indence within the last 2 weeks, I was contacted by a TNF member, who was passing on a message because the current owner of that car wanted to touch base with me to find out info for his car. He raised the issue of more cars than I quote in my 2002 article (also sent to Billm44 yesterday), this was my response on that issue. And I'm not trying to start an argument! Because I'm more than happy to let the ausmini and private Mini Facebook groups do their own thing.

 

" As for John Sneddon having car number 4667 listed. I'm not privy to this car and to be honest in all the years I've messed with Mini Coopers, I ask myself why I've never found a car that's higher than your car (4365)? That's as subtle as I can be on this. 

If by chance 4667 or the supposed many cars built between it and yours (4365) surface then I'll reconsider the stance."

 

To save the confusion for those reading not fully  aware of the practice, BMC (Aust) gave their first production build - car number 501.

 

 

Stephen



#47 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 6,772 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 11 February 2021 - 06:30

Oops, I meant 4167.
YKA 2S1 4302 was the highest I'd seen, I figured that there would be more but not a couple of hundred more! I take notes of what I see and I don't see gaps of 300 in my numbers so I wouldn't expect a big jump right at the end.



 



#48 cooper997

cooper997
  • Member

  • 3,871 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 11 February 2021 - 07:19

Fully agree Michael. As you'd be more than aware, surviving examples and even ID plate information (where a car has been wrecked) help tell the story, car number gaps of 10, 20 or even upwards of 50 can be deemed normal. A gap of 300 odd just leave me wondering where they are all hiding.

 

 

Stephen



#49 ellrosso

ellrosso
  • Member

  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 11 February 2021 - 07:29

Graeme Scott raced this Mini Cooper in Tassy 1967 - 68. Only Cooper I can recall racing down there. Cazarro Alfa Ti is the ex Bussinello Sandown winner.

2740-K-Grid-68-TNF.jpg



#50 Billm44

Billm44
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: February 21

Posted 11 February 2021 - 09:29

Hi Elrosso. Is this Mini that you are referring to the Mini that I have now.