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Singapore GP FP1, FP2, FP3 and Quali


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#801 bsoares

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:25

Because it's absurd to think a 1.5 second car advantage comes from tyre pressures. It's laughable.

Anyone can enjoy an advantage over the field if they have a superior engine and chassis. There is no evidence to suggest Ferrari have suddenly obtained this between one race weekend.

 

Once I was playing F1 on PS3 and after a few minutes tweeking my setup without any significative results, I've raised my tire pressures by about 1 PSI. Suddenly I was almost 2 seconds faster. :eek:

 

I'm just saying, if Codemasters implemented this in the game it might be possible.

 

Afterall you used this reasoning to explain why Vettel's tire exploded. :smoking:



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#802 Huffer

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:27

I'm still sticking to what I know, that Paddy Lowe insists it's not pressure related and Autosport think it's down to the marginal temperature window of the supersoft.

By all means, go right ahead. But do you honestly think that tire pressure has no effect on 1) the temperature window and 2) the ability of the car to reach that operating window within a number of laps? 



#803 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:28

Once I was playing F1 on PS3 and after a few minutes tweeking my setup without any significative results, I've raised my tire pressures by about 1 PSI. Suddenly I was almost 2 seconds faster. :eek:

I'm just saying, if Codemasters implemented this in the game it might be possible.

Afterall you used this reasoning to explain why Vettel's tire exploded. :smoking:

Yes, of course. Raising the tyre pressure by 1PSI definitely does that on that game doesn't it :eek:
Can't believe people are bringing that up. After the Hembrey comment that all tyres would explode in that way, seems I was pretty accurate. :smoking:

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 11:32.


#804 Huffer

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:28

The car simply isn't sensitive to pressure by 0.625 seconds every corner while no one else's is.

 

I think that's something that you'll have to prove. I don't think personal incredulity is really a valid argument here.



#805 P123

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:30

Merc weren't that far behind on Friday. Struggling a bit, but it does seem that in an effort to cure their issues they made the car slower on Saturday. Tyre pressures change from race to race. If we saw such massive swings previously then I'd believe it was all down to pressures.

#806 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:30

By all means, go right ahead. But do you honestly think that tire pressure has no effect on 1) the temperature window and 2) the ability of the car to reach that operating window within a number of laps?

Of course it does. But everyone's in the same boat, and when I look at the pecking order, everyone is where I would expect them to be bar Mercedes. I doubt it's affected them so significantly.

If pressures could affect your car by 2 seconds, we would have seen this all before. Teams would have gone ridiculously low when they could. But they didn't.

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 11:31.


#807 ANF

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:32

I'm still sticking to what I know, that Paddy Lowe insists it's not pressure related and Autosport think it's down to the marginal temperature window of the supersoft.

It's the same for everybody: The Pirellis suck. :)



#808 tagy22

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:45

Everyone would loose out in the same way if it was pressure. The car simply isn't sensitive to pressure by 0.625 seconds every corner while no one else's is.

 

Only if all the teams were running the same pressures before this change.



#809 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:48

Only if all the teams were running the same pressures before this change.


Well they were in Monza.

#810 seancleric

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:54

All except Mercedes remember :up:



#811 Huffer

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:55

If pressures could affect your car by 2 seconds, we would have seen this all before. Teams would have gone ridiculously low when they could. But they didn't.

 

 This makes two assumptions, that there was no minimum pressure limit; but there was. It's just been raised since Spa. The second is that every car on the grid reacts the same way for a given set of circumstances - but they don't. 

Of course, there's also the possibility that Lowe et al are telling us something of a half-truth - that they could have remedied the pressure related issues with setup. In fact, they may have came into this weekend with a specific setup direction in mind only to find out that it didn't work and had no explanation as to why. So yes....you could say that from a certain point of view, the issue is setup related. 



#812 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:56

All except Mercedes remember :up:


How many times! Mercedes set their pressures correctly in Monza. The problem was with the FIA's procedure of measurement. The Pirelli engineer saw Mercedes inflating their tyres correctly. Pressure and temperature are proportional. Mercedes switched off their warmers, the pressure fell and then the FIA measured it. Mercedes were above the limit at all points in the race.

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 11:57.


#813 seancleric

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:02

Yes your right the procedure was incorrect for Monza so the fia was on back foot trying to prove, but they have rectified the procedure for here, like I said hollow rear spokes strange radio message to Rosberg yesterday about the pressures and using it without 'auto bleed' I find suspicious lol.



#814 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:07

Yes your right the procedure was incorrect for Monza so the fia was on back foot trying to prove, but they have rectified the procedure for here, like I said hollow rear spokes strange radio message to Rosberg yesterday about the pressures and using it without 'auto bleed' I find suspicious lol.


No they weren't on the back foot trying to prove, they were still able to prove Mercedes were legal. The team provided their race data which showed they were above the limit at all times.

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 12:07.


#815 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:08

I don't agree that pressures have anything to do with it. As I said, Mercedes ran at the recommended pressure in Monza and didn't have pace problems,


Now you're in denial for sure when saying 'anything'. Higher pressures means less friction means less heat into tire means not using the SS properly.

At this point you're arguing with yourself. Anyway let's watch the the race to see how they manage the softs.

#816 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:09

Now you're in denial for sure when saying 'anything'. Higher pressures means less friction means less heat into tire means not using the SS properly.
At this point you're arguing with yourself. Anyway let's watch the the race to see how they manage the softs.

Correction: the pressure debacle in Monza has nothing to do with it. I'm saying their temperature issue is down to setup, and can be rectified. So no, not arguing with myself.

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 12:09.


#817 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:10

That's when the pressures went up...

#818 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:11

That's when the pressures went up...


And they had no problems there, supporting my argument that it's not related to the limit....

#819 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:13

To answer to your edit, of course Merc needs to react to running higher pressures, so far they didn't manage to negate the effect with setup changes, hence the drop in performance. All goes back to the Monza pressure clamp-down.

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#820 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:15

To answer to your edit, of course Merc needs to react to running higher pressures, so far they didn't manage to negate the effect with setup changes, hence the drop in performance. All goes back to the Monza pressure clamp-down.

I don't agree. It's a specific setup issue with this circuit and how they work the tyres.

The fact Ferrari were only 0.2 seconds of pole here last year says it all. That Ferrari's come a long way.

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 12:17.


#821 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:18

And they had no problems there, supporting my argument that it's not related to the limit....


Come on... FIA went after them, found them out and now in Singapore has a procedure in place to measure the pressures.

It has been a process which coincides with the drop of Merc performance.

There is a cause-effect relationship here you choose not to recognize.

#822 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:19

Come on... FIA went after them, found them out and now in Singapore has a procedure in place to measure the pressures.
It has been a process which coincides with the drop of Merc performance.
There is a cause-effect relationship here you choose not to recognize.

How long is it gonna take before you get it into your brain that Mercedes were never below the minimum pressure in Monza? It's not cause-effect. It's correlation without cause. You have no evidence to support this.

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 12:19.


#823 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:19

The fact Ferrari were only 0.2 seconds of pole here last year says it all. That Ferrari's come a long way.


What about RBR ?

#824 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:20

What about RBR ?


Their chasiss is great too. They weren't far off either.

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 12:21.


#825 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:21

How long is it gonna take before you get it into your brain that Mercedes were never below the minimum pressure in Monza? It's not cause-effect. It's correlation without cause. You have no evidence to support this.


When setting they were there, when racing no. Also Singapore has measuring even for quali.

#826 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:22

When setting they were there, when racing no. Also Singapore has measuring even for quali.


Read the report. It specifically says they followed the correct procedure for safe operation. Mercedes said Pirelli were there during inflation and were happy.

Edited by J0rd4n, 20 September 2015 - 12:22.


#827 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:48

Now you're in denial for sure when saying 'anything'. Higher pressures means less friction means less heat into tire means not using the SS properly.
At this point you're arguing with yourself. Anyway let's watch the the race to see how they manage the softs.


Well, well, well. Early days but Merc's pace on the softs at the minute is only a couple of tenths off the supersofts right now.

#828 Goron3

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:54

It's looking good for Merc at the moment..Vettel really having to slow down to nurse the tyres.



#829 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:55

Well, well, well. Early days but Merc's pace on the softs at the minute is only a couple of tenths off the supersofts right now.


Yeah you're right. But didn't they have this exact problem before their private test?

#830 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:56

Yeah you're right. But didn't they have this exact problem before their private test?


No, if I remember correctly it was never about pure pace but degradation. Mercedes were still very quick before they did that test, but their tyres just fell apart.

#831 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 12:58

Yeah that's true. In quali they still were great, the problem with SS durability was in races.

#832 turssi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 13:00

Now Hamilton is out. We'll have to focus on Rosberg then.

#833 Jordan44

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 13:02

I'm guessing it's typical Mercedes and their overheating of the ERS

#834 OO7

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 13:11

Was shaping up to be an interesting battle towards the end of the race with Lewis finishing on the options.  Real shame.


Edited by OO7, 20 September 2015 - 13:12.


#835 IamFasterthanU

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 13:22

The race is so boring and safety car is making it even worse. Max is back in contention for points now



#836 OO7

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 13:23

Looking like a Grand Chelem for Seb.