56 replies to this topic

[Eff One 2002]

I think it would have been a breath of fresh air for F1. It would have been a challenging additional street circuit, a brand new venue and not another boring Tilkedrome with car park runoff areas with no penalties for mistakes. Anyone else disappointed that this race will seemingly never come to fruition?

Edited by Eff One 2002, 19 September 2015 - 02:01.

[SCHUEYFAN]

No.  As long as Montreal stays put I'm happy.  I doubt the fan base exists in the NE states to support the race anyway.

[Volcano70]

Not Really, but at least I would've had somewhere to stay in NJ because I have family out there....

But no plans to go to CoTA so that would've been my best bet to actually get to an F1 race. (Montreal 2016/2018?)

*oh and plus FE could change the circuit and use it as their own 

Edited by Volcano70, 19 September 2015 - 02:18.

[Otaku]

1 race per country. That's all.

[Volcano70]

1 race per country. That's all.

So, no Imola or Valencia then??

[Peter0Scandlyn]

Yes. Never likely to get there trackside, but could've become quite an icon in time.

[Otaku]

So, no Imola or Valencia then??

 

You could make a case for San Marino, not sure... it's an independant state after all. Kinda like Monaco.

 

 

As of Valencia, F1 should stay far away from it, even if there's not any other GP in spain. Awful track.

[SophieB]

You could make a case for San Marino, not sure... it's an independant state after all. Kinda like Monaco.


As of Valencia, F1 should stay far away from it, even if there's not any other GP in spain. Awful track.

Imola is, and always was, in Italy though, despite being labelled as San Marino.

Also, I'm not disappointed in the NJ race not happening because I never reckoned it was going to happen in the first place, somehow. The views back to Manhattan would have meant photos generated by the race would have been great, though.

[Ruusperi]

I'd certainly have preferred NJ over Russia and Azerbaijan. But the fact is that Bernie doesn't care about the location but the £££.

[loki]

1 race per country. That's all.

If Bernard could find another couple of suckers promoters to pay for races in the US he'd have three if he could.

[jaisli]

Also, I'm not disappointed in the NJ race not happening because I never reckoned it was going to happen in the first place, somehow. The views back to Manhattan would have meant photos generated by the race would have been great, though.

 

As a NJ resident, I would have loved to have a race in my own backyard.  But as a NJ resident who is keenly aware of what this state's politics are like, I was also extremely skeptical that it was ever going to happen.  Because other NJ residents are very particular and vocal about what goes on in their backyards.  And having a good portion of the proposed circuit run through a residential neighborhood, they would have fought it tooth and nail.  And I suspect they would have won.  But it never even got to that point.  When they finally had the press conference with the governor a few years ago and Vettel was doing his exhibition run, I began to wonder if I was wrong.  But from that day forward, there was no constructions, no talk, no announcements, and there wasn't a single news agency digging deep and asking hard questions such as "so where is the money coming from?"  And I think looking back, the reason is pretty obvious. 

 

I'm not suggesting it was merely a political stunt, designed to put pressure on COTA while they were suffering with financial and construction problems.  And we all know that deep down, Bernie really wants or wanted a race in the NYC area.  But the phrase, snowballs chance, pretty much describes the NJ race from the beginning.  In my opinion the Port Imperial Grand Prix was never EVER going to happen.  So from that perspective, it's hard to really be disappointed.

[superden]

No, not really.

[smitten]

I pretty much fail to get excited by new venues just because they are new. I may be old fashioned but I'd hate to see a(nother) classic circuit lost in order to line the pockets of CVC.

[paulogman]

sure, I'm only 15 minutes from the track and a friend of mine has an apartment along the top of the circuit

[4Wheeldrift]

I think it would have been an interesting venue.  But i am not sure I am disappointed it isn't happening.

 

 

Whilst i am not a proponent of specifically limiting a country to a single GP but much like two in the middle east, you have to have a reason for having a GP somewhere.  I appreciate that Detroit and Phoenix are from a past era, but they and Indy struggled and CotA is still in its honeymoon period - although the difficult second race hurdle  has obviously been cleared.

 

You'd expect, what with the US being so large geographical and having such a high population that F1 could be made to stick, but I think a second race would be a struggle to support.

 

I must admit i was very surprised when it was announced, given that CotA hadn't got going, it hadn't occurred to me it might be a bit of a pressure move by Bernie - but it would fit!

[PayasYouRace]

I am. It looked like it would be an exciting street circuit.

[Imperial]

Why add yet another race in yet another country with little interest in F1?

COTA ticket sales look to be down again this year, why bother adding another race where when the novelty has worn off the spectators will vanish too?

[ensign14]

So, no Imola or Valencia then??

 

No.  Forget the rose-tintery.  Imola was rubbish.  It has only looked good in recent years because of the filth that has been put before F1 fans.  30 years ago it was down as one of the worst and only on the calendar because Ferrari.  We have lost Jacarepagua, Zandvoort, Ricard, original Osterreichring, Estoril, Brands, Kyalamai and Adelaide from that season and every one of those could piss on Imola from a great height.  (It was better than Detroit, but then again gastrointestinal flu was better than Detroit.)

 

And the Valencia track should be obliterated with every force available to mankind and then sown with salted furrows. 

[pdac]

It's all about money. If someone comes with a bag full of money they will have an F1 race. If they have a great venue but no money, they will not. That's why we're going to Azerbaijan.

[TecnoRacing]

Yes, absolutely... it was a nice looking, exciting layout with elevation change...nice break from the usual recycled, Tilkedrome playmat circuits.

[AustinF1]

No. I love Montreal.

[wj_gibson]

No. Forget the rose-tintery. Imola was rubbish. It has only looked good in recent years because of the filth that has been put before F1 fans. 30 years ago it was down as one of the worst and only on the calendar because Ferrari. We have lost Jacarepagua, Zandvoort, Ricard, original Osterreichring, Estoril, Brands, Kyalamai and Adelaide from that season and every one of those could piss on Imola from a great height. (It was better than Detroit, but then again gastrointestinal flu was better than Detroit.)

And the Valencia track should be obliterated with every force available to mankind and then sown with salted furrows.

I don't think many people would be of the view that Jacarepagua or Estoril would piss on Imola from a great height. Both of those circuits were among the first to insist on constant radius corners only and neither was particularly well received - in some ways both rather blazed the trail for Tilke.

The original Imola was a great circuit, emerging from natural roads (it was only closed off in 1978) and if they'd sorted out Acque Minerali before 1995 then it would have been greater still.

[E1pix]

YES!!!

I would have loved it if NJ ran in opposite years of CoTA. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and I suspect each running every two years would have proved that true -- to the benefit of both.

Plus I refuse to support CoTA as long as they screw people in camping and other fees -- and promote like it's the bloody Grand Prix of Texas.

[PayasYouRace]

No.  Forget the rose-tintery.  Imola was rubbish.  It has only looked good in recent years because of the filth that has been put before F1 fans.  30 years ago it was down as one of the worst and only on the calendar because Ferrari.  We have lost Jacarepagua, Zandvoort, Ricard, original Osterreichring, Estoril, Brands, Kyalamai and Adelaide from that season and every one of those could piss on Imola from a great height.  (It was better than Detroit, but then again gastrointestinal flu was better than Detroit.)

 

And the Valencia track should be obliterated with every force available to mankind and then sown with salted furrows. 

 

Yeah right...

 

Jacarepagua was flat and featureless. Paul Ricard was bland and uninspiring. Imola was up there with most of the others you mention, especially before the 1995 modifications. Great corners and elevation changes and actually had overtaking spots, all in a great setting. It was a great circuit. Not so good with the changes but still decent.

[maximilian]

Doesn't matter.  If you want some of the world's best drivers battling it out in close competition on challenging street circuits in some of the world's biggest metropoli, simply watch Formula E.

[jonpollak]

That Ensign14 sure is a bitter old sod isn't he?.. I'm guessing he'd been to maybe 3 of those tracks. Imola is luurvly and had the best atmosphere on race day. NJ would have been fun but that's not allowed anymore so **** em. I'm waiting for a REAL NYC race and Formula e might just pull off in the next 20 years. Mind you they may just run around Times Square but what the hell.

Edited by jonpollak, 19 September 2015 - 20:47.

[ensign14]

Yeah right...

 

Jacarepagua was flat and featureless. Paul Ricard was bland and uninspiring. Imola was up there with most of the others you mention, especially before the 1995 modifications. Great corners and elevation changes and actually had overtaking spots, all in a great setting. It was a great circuit. Not so good with the changes but still decent.

 

Jacarepagua, Estoril and Ricard often provided great racing.  Brazil 1989, France 1987/1990, Portugal 1985/1988/1989 instantly come to mind.  Ricard also had the benefit of being blindingly fast and therefore giving a very different challenge to other tracks.  And they all allowed for overtaking.

 

The only things I remember about Imola are three crashes and a boycott.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

As a NJ resident, I would have loved to have a race in my own backyard.  But as a NJ resident who is keenly aware of what this state's politics are like, I was also extremely skeptical that it was ever going to happen.  Because other NJ residents are very particular and vocal about what goes on in their backyards.  And having a good portion of the proposed circuit run through a residential neighborhood, they would have fought it tooth and nail.  And I suspect they would have won.  But it never even got to that point.  When they finally had the press conference with the governor a few years ago and Vettel was doing his exhibition run, I began to wonder if I was wrong.  But from that day forward, there was no constructions, no talk, no announcements, and there wasn't a single news agency digging deep and asking hard questions such as "so where is the money coming from?"  And I think looking back, the reason is pretty obvious. 

 

I'm not suggesting it was merely a political stunt, designed to put pressure on COTA while they were suffering with financial and construction problems.  And we all know that deep down, Bernie really wants or wanted a race in the NYC area.  But the phrase, snowballs chance, pretty much describes the NJ race from the beginning.  In my opinion the Port Imperial Grand Prix was never EVER going to happen.  So from that perspective, it's hard to really be disappointed.

I wouldn't say that there was no construction done there.  I drive through Port Imperial every once in a while, and it seemed like something that resembles a pit complex has indeed been built there, and all the roads were repaved.

[chadwick8505]

I would have loved it to happen. Getting to Montreal every year from NYC is a hassle. And getting to Texas is even worse and a lot more expensive. A race in NJ would have been so easy for me.

Granted the track was okay, and the politics surrounding it were a mess, I figured it would never happen. So while I was looking forward to it, my hopes were never that high.

[ThadGreen]

I have mixed emotions about an NJ race. It has to be money. If the people behind building/promoting the track/race had the money it would happen, heck if they even had some money they could have an Indy Car race there.

[Atreiu]

Not really.

COTA is good enough and there are other circuits in the US which I'd rather see upgraded and revamped so they could recived F1.

[D28]

No.  As long as Montreal stays put I'm happy.  I doubt the fan base exists in the NE states to support the race anyway.

The attendance figures from 35 years ago at Watkins Glen tend to refute that. Even with no amenities whatever, and somewhat dubious crowd figures, a lot of spectators witnessed these US grand Prix.

As I posted elsewhere on the Forums last week. had F1 invested a fraction of money there,that went to Dallas, Phoenix, Las Vegas,Detroit and Indianapolis. they could have had a permanent, traditional home for the USGP. Long Beach was adequate while it lasted, but the USGP never really recovered from abandoning Watkins Glen. Lots of other series still race there, why not F1? The last thing F1 needs now is another urban, street course IMO.

Bernie has an obsession with bringing the races to the spectators, in an urban setting. Why not assume some of them own cars, and are interested, motivated enough to travel to a circuit to watch a GP? Do we really want another Singapore?

Edited by D28, 21 September 2015 - 13:50.

[loki]

Not really.

COTA is good enough and there are other circuits in the US which I'd rather see upgraded and revamped so they could recived F1.

Any additional races would be street circuits.  No one is going to upgrade a current track  in the US to accomodate an F1 race.

[smitten]

Any additional races would be street circuits.  No one is going to upgrade a current track  in the US to accomodate an F1 race.

 

Why?  Surely it can't be cheaper to close off city streets AND bring them to F1 safety standards than to bring an existing circuit up to standard?

[Cynic2]

Never say never.  There are interesting things going on, out of the public view for now.

[MaxisOne]

Meh .. if it happens great if it doesnt .. meh 

 

I plan on going to COTA anyways ... 

[BRG]

Never say never.  There are interesting things going on, out of the public view for now.

Really?  Who's bribing who?

[August]

Not really.
COTA is good enough and there are other circuits in the US which I'd rather see upgraded and revamped so they could recived F1.

I don't really want any non-F1 track be upgraded to F1, I dont want Road America, Watkins Glen, or Laguna Seca suffer Mexico City's fate.

Rather I'd drop Spa and Suzuka from F1 before FIA totally butchers them.

[MaxCrazyEddieCayer]

I'm sad, the track and setting was stuff of dreams ( mostly the setting, I can't remember the track clearly ) and I was really excited to have another race close to Montreal. Sadly not to be.

[Atreiu]

Any additional races would be street circuits.  No one is going to upgrade a current track  in the US to accomodate an F1 race.

 

 

I know. 

In a purely hypothetical scenario, I'd rather see other circuits upgraded, but not butchered or nuetered, than a new race at NJ.

[GTRacer]

Why add yet another race in yet another country with little interest in F1?

 

 

Not true, F1 has been growing in popularity in North America the past few years. Its TV figures were up more than 80% last year & have continued to grow substantially through this year.

 

Imola was up there with most of the others you mention, especially before the 1995 modifications. Great corners and elevation changes and actually had overtaking spots, all in a great setting. It was a great circuit. Not so good with the changes but still decent.

It may have had spots that looked like they would be good for overtaking but Imola was traditionally a circuit that featured virtually no overtaking, The last F1 race held there for example (2006) featured just 1 overtake all race. The pre-95 layout was better but overtaking was still hard.

 

That been said however I'd love the Pre-2006 Imola back on the schedule, But I hate the changes they made from 2006. In 2006 they butched the Variante Alta & the changes they made in 2010 which removed the Variante Bassa really ruined it for me as that was a fun, challenging chicane where it was easy to lose time because you had to use some kurb but not too much & that was tricky to get right.

 

 

As to Paul Ricard, The short layout F1 used from around 1986 was pretty bad. The full layout however was (And still is) popular with drivers because it had a lot of pretty fast corners & on the whole tended to produce some good races. Just a shame they insist on using the chicane on the mistral straght now.

[Volcano70]

Agreed, shame they destroyed Variante Bassa

[Craven Morehead]

Never really expected the NJ GP to become a reality tbh. Too much stuff in the way, as very aptly described by jaisli in post # 11.

[jaisli]

I wouldn't say that there was no construction done there.  I drive through Port Imperial every once in a while, and it seemed like something that resembles a pit complex has indeed been built there, and all the roads were repaved.

 

Perhaps there was something else that I'm not aware of but the 'construction' everybody seemed to be pointing to as a possible pit complex back in 2012 or 2013 turned out to be a bus terminal and had nothing to do with the race.  And road repaving is a regular occurrence and doesn't necessarily mean anything.  If a race was going to take place on the proposed site, there are a number of areas that would have to be completely reprofiled, not just repaved.

This article from July of 2014 should offer some further insight.   http://www.nj.com/ne...ut_in_2015.html  But in a nutshell "nothing" is happening, or at the time of the article, had happened.  And that's the whole point.  There was a lot of smoke and mirrors, right from the beginning.

There was never an official website beyond a shell (which no longer exists), no Twitter account, no Facebook page, no billboards, no promotion.  Hindry's group was tight lipped in the extreme.  It's almost as if he was sitting in a bar one night, doodling on a napkin and said, "Hey, I've got a GREAT idea."  But they had nothing beyond that and the whole thing just spiraled out of control and took on a life of it's own.

Edited by jaisli, 22 September 2015 - 16:41.

[teejay]

Looked like a goat track - was purely a lie to use as a bargaining tool.

[PayasYouRace]

 

It may have had spots that looked like they would be good for overtaking but Imola was traditionally a circuit that featured virtually no overtaking, The last F1 race held there for example (2006) featured just 1 overtake all race. The pre-95 layout was better but overtaking was still hard.

 

That been said however I'd love the Pre-2006 Imola back on the schedule, But I hate the changes they made from 2006. In 2006 they butched the Variante Alta & the changes they made in 2010 which removed the Variante Bassa really ruined it for me as that was a fun, challenging chicane where it was easy to lose time because you had to use some kurb but not too much & that was tricky to get right.

 

 

As to Paul Ricard, The short layout F1 used from around 1986 was pretty bad. The full layout however was (And still is) popular with drivers because it had a lot of pretty fast corners & on the whole tended to produce some good races. Just a shame they insist on using the chicane on the mistral straght now.

 

On Imola's old layout, Tosa and sometimes Rivazza were good overtaking spots, which is what I was referencing. I even said it was less good after the changes.

 

Paul Ricard was very much the Abu Dhabi of its time. Bland, featureless and never drew much of a crowd.

[johnmhinds]

Perhaps there was something else that I'm not aware of but the 'construction' everybody seemed to be pointing to as a possible pit complex back in 2012 or 2013 turned out to be a bus terminal and had nothing to do with the race.  And road repaving is a regular occurrence and doesn't necessarily mean anything.  If a race was going to take place on the proposed site, there are a number of areas that would have to be completely reprofiled, not just repaved.

 

Yeah I just went on google maps, that "pit building" that everyone was taking pictures of a couple of years ago is just a multi storey car park next to the ferry terminal... 

 

 

And it looks like there were other plans to use the site for this hotel:

 

http://www.nj.com/jj...und_for_tw.html

 

But that doesn't appear to have happened either.

Edited by johnmhinds, 22 September 2015 - 10:11.

[aportinga]

RA needs to update and THAT's where F1 needs to be!

Edited by aportinga, 22 September 2015 - 12:52.

[Volcano70]

RA needs to update and THAT's where F1 needs to be!

So, you rather have it a crappy tilkedrome than a nice, proper race track it is now?

[63Corvette]

Nope! I'm NOT!!! (Have ya ever BEEN to Joisey?)