122 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

Autobild is reporting that today. According to them Domenicalli will also replace Dr. Ulrich and Audi will enter F1 in 2018 with RB as sponsor.

http://www.autobild....1--6077811.html

German carmaker Audi is close to finalising a deal for a Formula One racing team with Red Bull as its main sponsor from 2018, Germany's Auto Bild said on Monday.

A spokesman for Audi said he could not confirm the report in the magazine, which said it was only a matter of signing the deal that had already been approved by the company's bosses.

As recently as May the car manufacturer had said a Formula One entry was not an issue for them.

http://www.gptoday.c...ull_as_sponsor/

Regardless of how reliable this is and if it will ever happen: Would it make in general even sense to quit two major projects just for F1?

Edited by Marklar, 21 September 2015 - 13:45.

[CHIUNDA]

My question is whether Domenicalli and Horner would fit into the same team and if so how?

[Jimisgod]

Well we're done here boys.

 

Audi-to-F1 rumor:

 

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010...

[Jon83]

Why?

[Petroltorque]

real question is how today's fall of 20% in VAG's share price will have on any future marketing

[johnmhinds]

Not really sure why VW would buy Red Bull right now to do all that in 2018.

 

If they're winding up their WEC and DTM teams (seems an unlikely thing) they'd already have enough experienced people to start their own F1 team.

[Ross Stonefeld]

real question is how today's fall of 20% in VAG's share price will have on any future marketing

Well they're saving money on dividend payouts...

[Imateria]

Not really sure why VW would buy Red Bull right now to do all that in 2018.

 

If they're winding up their WEC and DTM teams (seems an unlikely thing) they'd already have enough experienced people to start their own F1 team.

And the facilities to do it.

[maximilian]

Yawn.  How many times will this continue to come up?

[jstrains]

I think Winterkorn has other worries now

 

[FullThrottleF1]

Autobild is reporting that today. According to them Domenicalli will also replace Dr. Ulrich and Audi will enter F1 in 2018 with RB as sponsor.

https://translate.go...tml?c=3604&i=48

Regardless of how reliable this is and if it will ever happen: Would it make in general even sense to quit two mayor projects just for F1?

 

I'm not sure how much experience they have in running a city, let alone two.

[V8 Fireworks]

I thought Audi-Audi sponsored by Red Bull was already confirmed?  That's how it sounded on the Australian TV broadcast.

[ardbeg]

I'm not sure how much experience they have in running a city, let alone two.

They are running countries, a city or two cannot be much of a problem

[Sash1]

I think Winterkorn has other worries now

 

 

I posted this in another discussion about Renault/Red Bull, but it actually belongs here:

 

 

German authorities have started an investigation as well into the VW software scandal (because that is what it is) and are also requesting Opel, BMW and Mercedes to give all relevant information about their diesel tests. So it might not only be the US fine, there could be several European as well. Pretty soon VW/Audi will have to go into a massive damage limitation mode on the PR front as well as the financial front.

While VAG might be very succesful, you can bet that the shareholders might have a thing to say too. Talking about shareholders, what do you think they will do when they loose a considerable amount of share value because the company has acted wrong and knowingly did so. edit: -And they lost billions of dollars today-

 

And I have understood that the cars have to go back to the garage and be adjusted to comply with the standards set by the tests. Not only does this cost a lot of money, it is likely to have a great impact on the cars performances. Something owners would like to get compensation for. Would you buy another VW or Audi when this happens to you? I foresee a lot of lawsuits and damage compensation as well as direct damage.

 

Maybe the takeover comes just on time before the effects will be felt troughout the VAG group. But they will have to find a lot of cash and it definitely will affect all activities of the VAG group.

[chunder27]

Isnt there somethig going on in the USA aswell that might mean VAG have to pay out billions for something?  That might somewhat curtail any future plans!

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Isnt there somethig going on in the USA aswell that might mean VAG have to pay out billions for something?  That might somewhat curtail any future plans!

Only this:

 

http://www.theguardi...-air-violations

[johnmhinds]

I thought Audi-Audi sponsored by Red Bull was already confirmed?  That's how it sounded on the Australian TV broadcast.

 

No it hasn't been confirmed.

 

In interviews this weekend Christian Horner seemed downbeat and confused as to what was going to happen, all he could say was that they'd either be using Ferrari engines next year or both of the Red Bull teams would be shut down.

Edited by johnmhinds, 21 September 2015 - 13:27.

[sterlingfan2000]

Its a done deal. My brother works for Audi and he said to me, audi will join F1 at 2018.

Surveys made by audi suggested, that football and F1 are the best for marketing. VW decided it will focus now on football and F1.

Thats what my brother said

Edited by sterlingfan2000, 21 September 2015 - 13:57.

[BRG]

My nephew cleans cars at Audi Walton and HE says that nobody has told him about any of this.

[rjsports]

Damn 

[FullThrottleF1]

My nephew cleans cars at Audi Walton and HE says that nobody has told him about any of this.

 

My friend who picks up the bins outside Audi dealers begs to differ!

[Diablobb81]

My friend who had a large stock in vw told me on the way down from the jump off the building that they will join in 2018.

[chunder27]

Its like the damned transfer window

 

Any minute now Hary Redkknapp is going to appear outside a training ground in a Brabus or somehting with a queue of reporters asking him quesitons while some poor woman is wiating behind him to get out!

 

Ridiculous

 

If it happens it happens, all they will do is do what they have done in WRC, WEC, outsped everyone, make it all very Germanic and Einz Zwei and ruin the sport even more that it is ruined rigght now.

And who is doing that currnetly and did it since 2000? Germans!!!!!  Ve Vill take over Zee Vorld JA

[Ross Stonefeld]

Well Audi would actually have competition in F1.

[Spillage]

This is pretty much exactly what Eddie Jordan says here:

 

 

Normally I'd dismiss this sort of thing out of hand, but every year at around this time EJ pops up with some outrageous prediction that ultimately turns out to be right. He called Mercedes buying Brawn and Schumacher joining, later Hamilton joining. IIRC he also called Raikkonen returning to Ferrari and Alonso to Mclaren. So he's not often wrong when he comes out with scoops like this.

 

Also extremely interesting is that Christian Horner didn't exactly deny it:

 

[Baddoer]

Who is next? Toyota? BMW? Tata? (oh, wait)

[CurbPainter]

Red Bull has an Ilmor engine on the shelf, which would be the perfect baseline engine, and with VAG having great experience with ERS systems because of WEC and the resources to make it work, they would be in a much better starting position as Honda/McLaren would be with an excellent chassis builder also in the mix...I can see VAG going for it, no better opportunity will ever present itself to them.

 

F1 is still awesome PR for a car manufacturer, especially when one of your biggest rivals threatens to tap into your market (Mercedes wanting to get more young people buying their cars). Red Bull also has the perfect, appealing to a younger audience, drivers right now in their pocket...it could be a PR goldmine if they went ahead with it. 

Edited by CurbPainter, 21 September 2015 - 17:45.

[superden]

Take a sip from the poisoned chalice VAG ... see how long it is before you notice it tastes funny.

Edited by superden, 21 September 2015 - 17:49.

[femi]

real question is how today's fall of 20% in VAG's share price will have on any future marketing

Hopefully 2 years down the line, it would be all water under bridge. Getting into F1 and winning won't hurt at all.

Edited by femi, 21 September 2015 - 18:02.

[KWSN - DSM]

Take a sip from the poisoned chalice VAG ... see how long it is before you notice it tastes funny.

 

If Renault decided to reenter as a manufacturer with their current engine, there obviously is something to the content of the chalice. As CurbPainter say regardless of the faults we as hard-core fan finds with F1 it is still a MASSIVE and awesome PR for a manufacturer to be part of.

 

AUDI have run their cause at Le Mans, anything but winning is now a failure they have to find somewhere else which should be either of:

1) NASCAR

2) WRC

3) IndyCar

c) Formula 1

 

It will be a tough, tough, tough endeavor to be successful at, but Mercedes steamrolling will be at least partial impetus.

 

None which mean I am convinced or even thinking they will buy / enter.

 

[artista]

@MuellerMatze: Die Formel-1-Pläne, die es bei #Audi mal gab, wurden nach @BILD-Information vom Vorstands-Vorsitzenden Stadler abgelehnt. #F1 #Formel1

Homemade translation: the F1 plans, that Audi once had, were rejected by CEO Stadler according to Bild sources.

Matthias Müller works for Bild.

[whitewaterMkII]

Hopefully 2 years down the line, it would be all water under bridge. Getting into F1 and winning won't hurt at all.

And about two years down the line is when this fraud would be finally litigated in US courts with fines in the billions of dollars. If they pulled the same scam in Europe, I'd imagine they will be heavily fined there as well.

Their stock got completely hammered today on DAX, dropping by somewhere around 20%

However, VAG isn't really exposed that much on stock markets as only about 12% of it's voting shares are publicly traded. The Porsche family owns a slight majority of the stock, with Lower Saxony holding about 20% and Qatar owning +/- 17% of the voting stock. Frankly if I was any one of those three major stock holders, I would want nothing to do with the vast money pit that is F1, particularly after my managers have been found to be conducting fraudulent business practices for years and facing the facts that it will soon cost billions and a complete trashing of the brands that will take years to dig out of.

*Disclosure, I just bought a VW sports wagon after trading in my VW CC for it, and have an '87 Porsche Turbo gathering dust in the garage. They are/were great cars.

Edited by whitewaterMkII, 21 September 2015 - 18:34.

[Petroltorque]

Yes, Yes it's a mess. The US is a country of litigants. $18 billion would represent almost 30% of VAG value so I doubt the SPE will aim for that unless they want to through blood into the water. Of all the crimes you want to avoid it's Federal Crime in the US. It's not like the dysfunctional EU, prosecutions lead to jail. Another night of the sgian dubh in the VAG boardroom or am I mixing my metaphors...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yes it's the overly-litigious US that's the problem here, not companies breaking the rules and/or acting fraudulently

[August]

I hope WEC won't lose Audi (or Porsche). Actually, Porsche might make more sense given they have a small turbo gasoline engine as opposed to Audi's 4L turbo diesel.

[whitewaterMkII]

Yes, Yes it's a mess. The US is a country of litigants. $18 billion would represent almost 30% of VAG value so I doubt the SPE will aim for that unless they want to through blood into the water. Of all the crimes you want to avoid it's Federal Crime in the US. It's not like the dysfunctional EU, prosecutions lead to jail. Another night of the sgian dubh in the VAG boardroom or am I mixing my metaphors...

I don't believe the fines would be anywhere near 18 billion, that would be about 35k +/- per car affected.

No doubt the costs involved per fraudulent vehicle will be high, perhaps in the thousands per vehicle just to rectify the problem. 

as of right now, with 20-25% of current VW vehicle sales being diesel in the US and Canada, dealers have been directed by VAG to cease sales. That is a huge amount of vehicles, now likely to be permanently off the market, and a immediate cost to VAG. 

The real bummer as far as I am concerned is that this maybe the end of diesel engines in cars altogether. VAG has spent millions promoting diesel as clean, while the vast majority of other manufacturers have gone in the hybrid direction instead.

[Petroltorque]

No, no don't get me wrong. The US authorities are RIGHT to prosecute this wrong doing. Yet again we are forced to rely on the US authorities to take the whip hand. Just look who's dealing with FIFA.

[Diablobb81]

And they'll probably face a huge class action lawsuit too. Intentionally cheating about cancer inducing emissions. That will be fun.

Edited by Diablobb81, 21 September 2015 - 19:15.

[JHSingo]

I hope WEC won't lose Audi (or Porsche). Actually, Porsche might make more sense given they have a small turbo gasoline engine as opposed to Audi's 4L turbo diesel.

 

Again: Porsche recently recommitted to the WEC for the next few years, and are likely to remain there till the 2020s.

 

99% guarantee you won't see the Porsche name in F1 any time soon.

[Donka]

Yes it's the overly-litigious US that's the problem here, not companies breaking the rules and/or acting fraudulently

 

Thought I was in the VdG v. Sauber thread by accident.  

[Talisman]

 

The real bummer as far as I am concerned is that this maybe the end of diesel engines in cars altogether. VAG has spent millions promoting diesel as clean, while the vast majority of other manufacturers have gone in the hybrid direction instead.

 

It won't end the use of Diesel engines in cars completely, its big in Europe and most if not all European makers have very strong Diesel product line-ups as a result.

VW may totter but there will be other European makers and some Japanese who will more than gladly fill their space in the Diesel market.

[Talisman]

Hopefully 2 years down the line, it would be all water under bridge. Getting into F1 and winning won't hurt at all.

 

2 years down the line is when the proverbial is likely to hit the fan...

[Petroltorque]

I think even in Europe the love affair with diesel engines I coming to an end. The particulate emissions linked with diesel has a detrimental effect on respiratory function. Many city councils are now pushing for more stringent clean air legislation.

[whitewaterMkII]

I think even in Europe the love affair with diesel engines I coming to an end. The particulate emissions linked with diesel has a detrimental effect on respiratory function. Many city councils are now pushing for more stringent clean air legislation.

I recall somewhere I read that France may do away with them altogether....

[oetzi]

Yes it's the overly-litigious US that's the problem here, not companies breaking the rules and/or acting fraudulently

If they'd been in F1 for 10 years they'd almost certainly have the experience to argue their case successfully.

Maybe Ross Brawn's on for 20% of what he saves them and a share in the F1 team if they get off.

Edited by oetzi, 21 September 2015 - 21:30.

[oetzi]

I think even in Europe the love affair with diesel engines I coming to an end. The particulate emissions linked with diesel has a detrimental effect on respiratory function. Many city councils are now pushing for more stringent clean air legislation.

They're pretty much done and gone.

Thank God.

Edited by oetzi, 21 September 2015 - 21:30.

[Jamiednm]

Well we're done here boys.

Audi-to-F1 rumor:

2015
2014
2013
2012
2011
2010...

I certainly don't remember Audi rumours all those years, and certainly nothing as sustained and credible as this. I would actually be surprised if it doesn't happen.

Mercedes' now multi-year F1 domination will be a huge motivator for VAG. WEC success is small fry compared to the publicity of F1 success.

[whitewaterMkII]

If they'd been in F1 for 10 years they'd almost certainly have the experience to argue their case successfully.

Maybe Ross Brawn's on for 20% of what he saves them and a share in the F1 team if they get off.

heh

The attorneys are already on it, interestingly this is a take on VAG being innocent because of the way the law was written. 

 

"The way most of the regulations are written seems to indicate that the vehicle must have a functional system of this type which is accurately monitoring system performance and meets the maximum emissions requirements at the time of testing. Obviously the VW vehicles in question were doing just that. But cars today have all sorts of bells and whistles which drivers can use to customize their driving experience. They can switch from “performance” mode to “economy” mode with the push of a button. Things like that obviously affect the vehicle’s emissions. Other such options are available. And when you think about it, the “disable device” was really just putting the car into a different mode of operation which includes heavy emissions control. When it was disconnected and ready to head back out on the road it was switching back to a different mode with a bit more performance. None of that changes the fact that the emissions were within the required limits at the time of testing."

 

Hot Air

[oetzi]

heh
The attorneys are already on it, interestingly this is a take on VAG being innocent because of the way the law was written.

"The way most of the regulations are written seems to indicate that the vehicle must have a functional system of this type which is accurately monitoring system performance and meets the maximum emissions requirements at the time of testing. Obviously the VW vehicles in question were doing just that. But cars today have all sorts of bells and whistles which drivers can use to customize their driving experience. They can switch from “performance” mode to “economy” mode with the push of a button. Things like that obviously affect the vehicle’s emissions. Other such options are available. And when you think about it, the “disable device” was really just putting the car into a different mode of operation which includes heavy emissions control. When it was disconnected and ready to head back out on the road it was switching back to a different mode with a bit more performance. None of that changes the fact that the emissions were within the required limits at the time of testing."

Hot Air

Heh.

It is kind of hard to see how they could lose. Unless they were dumb enough not to have 'emissions mode' as an option for day to day driving.

I mean, nobody could be that dumb, right?

[oetzi]

Then again, for all I know they might have made their money, spent it on developing an 'absolute low emissions' engine, and alerted the law so that absolute emissions are enforced.

Now all they have to do is cough up their 20bn then make 10 times that back while their competitors play catch up