41 replies to this topic

[milestone 11]

Maybe this thread will get blown out of the water before it is even up and running, should someone who knows, confirm or otherwise the emission rules for ACO events. As an avid follower, I do not know and haven't been able to find out. The whole green ethos that surrounds ACO rules would suggest that emission controls are in place.

Victor R.O. where are you?

Discuss to your hearts content.

[rhukkas]

No dont be ridiculous

[Petroltorque]

That is a pretty big ricochet to link VW road vehicle emissions failure to Audi Le Mans victories.

[OilFour]

Surely i'm the only one who has no clue what the ... you are talking about? 

[B Squared]

My guess is this:

 

http://www.theguardi...-air-violations

[Afterburner]

Even if there were such emissions regs in WEC, I feel like the test would be a lot harder to cheat than the EPA's. Racing scrutineers have more experience catching cheat devices.

[Victor_RO]

The only emissions regulations at Le Mans are that the cars shouldn't produce any visible emissions aka smoke (although in 2010 and 2011 the ACO sort of disobeyed their own rules, as both Peugeot and Audi were belching quite a bit of diesel particulate under throttle). Racing engines are pushed to their limit so much that even the cleanest racing engine in use today would probably fail all emissions tests used in the auto industry nowadays.

 

And as for this scandal (linked solely to VAG's diesel engines) tainting all the wins, don't forget that 2000-2005 were wins with the R8 which had a 3.6 V8 twin-turbo petrol engine.

 

So, to be honest, it's a rather silly question. The scandal is strictly related to the road cars.

[SealTheDiffuser]

turbo direct injection Diesel engines always sucked emissionwise..

 

stuipid that those direct injection petrol engine suck too now... (soot etc.)

 

it all a big lie.

 

cars are fun...

 

but 100year wrong way of proppeling them.... (I blame the nice noise they make.. )

 

imagine were e-vehicles could be today if they werenen't killed by big oil 100years ago.

[Imateria]

turbo direct injection Diesel engines always sucked emissionwise..

 

stuipid that those direct injection petrol engine suck too now... (soot etc.)

 

it all a big lie.

 

cars are fun...

 

but 100year wrong way of proppeling them.... (I blame the nice noise they make.. )

 

imagine were e-vehicles could be today if they werenen't killed by big oil 100years ago.

Nowhere? The power grids would have collapsed under the strain of re charging 10's of millions of cars on a daily basis.

[Abranet]

 

 

Serious thread? 

 

So are you a Porsche or Toyota fan? 

[SealTheDiffuser]

Nowhere? The power grids would have collapsed under the strain of re charging 10's of millions of cars on a daily basis.

 what do you do if you have not enough capacity?

[GrumpyYoungMan]

No dont be ridiculous

+1

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Nowhere? The power grids would have collapsed under the strain of re charging 10's of millions of cars on a daily basis.

IF electric vehicles were the norm - resources would be put into the infrastructure to support them, the thing is, who pays - the manufactures? or the end consumers? after all, I am sure not many car manufactures have directly paid for and built petrol stations...

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 22 September 2015 - 12:46.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

With all due respect, their wins aren't tainted, and the chances of this scandal being anything to do with Audi at Le Mans will be minimal at best. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[milestone 11]

Well! I've been the subject of much vitriol since I posted the OP, probably deserved but I genuinely didn't know what the ACO rules were. Even more embarrassing in the knowledge that I have not missed a Le Mans since 1970
I frankly doubt though that many, with the exeption of Victor RO knew the rules so there was probably a lot of bandwagon jumping going on.Most didn't make any attempt at answering my opening caveat which implies the latter.
Thread is, as alluded to previously, blown out of the water. It is dead and long may it remain so.

[rhukkas]

Even if there were emission tests the job of the team is to pass them. They obviously would have. Again, this isn't about road cars, it's about race cars.

[Jimisgod]

That is a pretty big ricochet to link VW road vehicle emissions failure to Audi Le Mans victories.

 

Did VW play a role in the assassination of JFK?

[BRG]

Did VW play a role in the assassination of JFK?

Apparently, Lord Lucan was driving a VW when he ran over Shergar.

[Amphicar]

Apparently, Lord Lucan was driving a VW when he ran over Shergar.

You forgot the alien abductions - it's well known that all UFOs have VW badges on them

[Risil]

Well! I've been the subject of much vitriol since I posted the OP, probably deserved but I genuinely didn't know what the ACO rules were. Even more embarrassing in the knowledge that I have not missed a Le Mans since 1970
I frankly doubt though that many, with the exeption of Victor RO knew the rules so there was probably a lot of bandwagon jumping going on.Most didn't make any attempt at answering my opening caveat which implies the latter.
Thread is, as alluded to previously, blown out of the water. It is dead and long may it remain so.

 

I thought it was a worthwhile question to ask. The LMP1 rulebook is very big and who would've been surprised if someone at the ACO had thrown an emissions test into the regulatory soup?

[TF110]

Nowhere? The power grids would have collapsed under the strain of re charging 10's of millions of cars on a daily basis.

Where would we be if Nikola Tesla had been funded better? Wireless electricity and all.

[mclarensmps]

Nowhere? The power grids would have collapsed under the strain of re charging 10's of millions of cars on a daily basis.

 

IF electric vehicles were the norm - resources would be put into the infrastructure to support them, the thing is, who pays - the manufactures? or the end consumers? after all, I am sure not many car manufactures have directly paid for and built petrol stations...

 

- Battery production is not the most environmentally friendly process either.

- You're just moving up the chain in terms of fossil fuel consumption. If it won't be happening at an individual level, it will be happening in a power generation level. You can argue that this is a more efficient use of the resource, but it would still cause problems. 

[OvDrone]

I love the whole politically corporate tinged economics saga behind the whole VW saga but Audi Le Mans wins where fair and fully 110% deserved.

[Risil]

I love the fact that it feels like it's 1994 again and we're discussing illegal software installed on Michael Schumacher's Benetton.

[OvDrone]

Another reason why I love Motorsport.

[superden]

No.

[saudoso]

Why is this still running?

[KingTiger]

They are tainted because all the serious manufacturers left prototype racing.

[TF110]

They are tainted because all the serious manufacturers left prototype racing.

No serious manufacturer involvement until Peugeot. I always felt they were beating up on privateers and with a favored technology (diesel).

[FerrariV12]

They are tainted because all the serious manufacturers left prototype racing.

 

Don't get me wrong I'd love to have seen more competition for them down the years (especially in the early to mid 2000s when they really were just beating up on a bunch of privateers), but of those to beat them at Le Mans in 1999 in their first attempt (one of the most manufacturer-heavy entries of recent times) only BMW haven't returned. In recent years I've come to admire their ability to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat those times that they haven't had the fastest car.

 

Plus I have more respect for a manufacturer that sticks around and looks to build a legacy rather than a) running away with their tail between their legs at the first sign of trouble, or b) formulaically concluding a 3 year program or whatever and buggering off.

Edited by FerrariV12, 22 September 2015 - 21:45.

[LeClerc]

dafuq?!?!?

[Atreiu]

No dont be ridiculous

 

/thread

[Volcano70]

+1

+2 

[Imateria]

No serious manufacturer involvement until Peugeot. I always felt they were beating up on privateers and with a favored technology (diesel).

That was only for 1 year though, 2006. Peugeot joined for 2007 to take the fight to them.

 

As for beating up on privateers, while kind of true the Judd V10 was actually quite powerful and the Pescarolo's, Dallara's, Creation's and Dome's were actually very good cars that were pretty close to the R8's. There were certainly several ELMS races in the mid 2000's won more on McNish's prowes than any R8 dominance (Silverstone 2004 certainly comes to mind).

[milestone 11]

Why is this still running?

'Cos there's been a lot of schadenfreude going on.

[George Costanza]

So the Audi R8 (1999-2005) was illegal? No... Just no.

[CoolBreeze]

Absolute nonsense. Stop blowing this out of proportion. 

[taran]

Are they tainted because Audi cheated at Le Mans? No (assuming they didn't cheat...)

 

But they will be tainted in public perception. Because everytime someone raises the issue of Audi's wonderful diesel racers, people will think of diesel cheaters....

People only remember the bad stuff....

[dweller23]

If anyone thinks it's not ridicolous, I suggest watching last episode of South Park.

[Imateria]

Are they tainted because Audi cheated at Le Mans? No (assuming they didn't cheat...)

 

But they will be tainted in public perception. Because everytime someone raises the issue of Audi's wonderful diesel racers, people will think of diesel cheaters....

People only remember the bad stuff....

By Le Mans next year no one will remember this. After all, no one mentiones Toyota having to recall loads of cars with faulty throttles and airbags a couple years ago.

[CoolBreeze]

By Le Mans next year no one will remember this. After all, no one mentiones Toyota having to recall loads of cars with faulty throttles and airbags a couple years ago.

 

Or Ferrari 458s catching fire..

[Bloggsworth]

turbo direct injection Diesel engines always sucked emissionwise..

 

stuipid that those direct injection petrol engine suck too now... (soot etc.)

 

it all a big lie.

 

cars are fun...

 

but 100year wrong way of proppeling them.... (I blame the nice noise they make.. )

 

imagine were e-vehicles could be today if they werenen't killed by big oil 100years ago.

 

Ah! So you are the one secretly hoarding those batteries with the power/time/weight capacity to challenge internal combustion engines...

Edited by Bloggsworth, 23 September 2015 - 16:34.