This is really scary stuff for F1: http://www.motorspor...ri-works-parity
Red Bull will quit F1 if not given engine parity
#1
Posted 22 September 2015 - 13:42
#3
Posted 22 September 2015 - 13:46
Bye bye, close the door when you exit please.
#4
Posted 22 September 2015 - 13:46
#5
Posted 22 September 2015 - 13:47
Four car teams?
On the plus side for McLaren, this moves them right up the grid. If Lotus go too, they'll be right on the cusp of scoring some points.
Edited by Christbiscuit, 22 September 2015 - 13:48.
#6
Posted 22 September 2015 - 13:58
Just quit already.
Regardless of any personal feelings I have for them, it will save them some money and give themselves the credibility necessary.
Edited by Atreiu, 22 September 2015 - 13:59.
#7
Posted 22 September 2015 - 13:59
Is there any chance that the two teams would stay on as independents if Red Bull did leave?
Maybe as Arden and Minardi?
#8
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:01
Maybe they and Audi should just swap teams, RB get the R18 and they get the R18. Everyone's a winner, baby, that's no lie.
#9
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:02
#10
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:04
Ha. Let them. And good riddance.
#11
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:04
Is there any chance that the two teams would stay on as independents if Red Bull did leave?
Maybe as Arden and Minardi?
I don't know. Maybe Red Bull but definately not Toro Rosso
#12
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:06
I too am quite happy to see them leave by now. The constant threats is annoying to say the least and as they have gone over themselves to backstab their current partner I can’t see how any other manufacturer would happily go to bed with them at the moment.
#13
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:10
I too am quite happy to see them leave by now. The constant threats is annoying to say the least and as they have gone over themselves to backstab their current partner I can’t see how any other manufacturer would happily go to bed with them at the moment.
We'd have a 18 car grid
#14
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:10
The original Speedweek story is here: http://www.speedweek...Gestalt-an.html
Quite extreme reading.
what a BS...
Speedweek is funded and owned by Red Bull
#15
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:11
With the exception of manufacturer works teams, just about every top team has at one point had to slum it with a customer engine for a while.
#16
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:11
#17
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:11
We'd have a 18 car grid
I would prefer that compared to Marko constantly holding a gun
#18
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:11
I am not sure if they are blackmailing FIA or Ferrari?
Either way
p.s.Maybe Ferrari should request chassis parity with RBR
#19
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:11
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#20
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:12
I am not sure if they are blackmailing FIA or Ferrari?
Either way
p.s.Maybe Ferrari should request chassis parity with RBR
holding F1 hostage is what they do... c....
#21
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:12
Red Bull are the F1 Nazi's.
#22
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:12
Always threats... never actually happen
#23
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:13
Well,they won their 4 championships with an inferior Renault engine so why the nervousness should Ferrari furnish them with equally sub-par PUs?
Renault was superior in producing excess exhaust gasses during off throttle,
so that not quite true...
#24
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:14
Red Bull is so low to spin this threat through their "independent" Speedweek magazine...
disgusting
#25
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:16
Did Williams threaten to quit when they lost their works deal? No.
Did McLaren threaten to quit when they lost their works deal? No.
Did Lotus threaten to quit when they lost their works deal? No.
etc.
I think in the short term this would be very painful for F1, but in the long term we don't want teams just in it to sell their drinks. They are even worse for the sport than car manufacturers with boards that get regular cold feet about whether to be in F1 or not.
#26
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:16
Arrivederci!
#27
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:16
Red Bull are the F1 Nazi's.
Wat
#28
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:17
Wat
They're EVIL!
#29
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:18
Red Bull are the F1 Nazi's.
Oh FFS.
Go and have a lie down.
#30
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:19
Oh FFS.
Go and have a lie down.
What made you so angry?
#31
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:20
If RB get the Ferrari engines, I think RB should have an engine party.
#32
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:21
Always threats... never actually happen
Are we talking about Ferrari now?
#33
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:21
The vitriol in this thread is depressing. Okay, I get it, Christian Horner and Helmut Marko are unlikable characters. You hate that your favourite driver had his backside handed to him for four years straight because of Red Bull's dominance.
But remember that everything Red Bull did they did that as a customer team of Renault. As Marko said last week, Red Bull have always paid for their engines, even if the Infiniti hookup helped offset some of the cost in the later years. All they are asking for is the right to remain competitive for wins as a customer team, and not become Ferrari's bitch like Williams are to Mercedes. How can any of us be happy with an F1 that only allows one or two works teams to ever fight for wins? It's downright boring. I want to see Red Bull, Williams, Force India and Sauber able to fight for wins, at least occasionally. In 2012 we had seven different winners in the first seven races. And we ultimately had an insanely close end to the year in Brazil.
So their point is a good one, IMO, in a broader context. The way works teams are dominating and manipulating the fate of their customers in this engine era outright sucks. It's not good for the sport at all.
Also, I would be very disappointed to see the likes of Verstappen, Ricciardo, Kyvat and Sainz out of F1. They are some of the best drivers in the sport. But hey it's okay we've got Guttierez, Maldonaldo and Ericsson. Wonderful.
Red Bull have done an enormous amount for this sport. They are currently backed up against a wall in their quest to be competitive. Yeah they've probably made missteps along the way but I personally appreciate an attitude that says "we're here to win or we're out".
#34
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:23
Customer engine or go away and stay away.
#35
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:24
Next thing is they threaten F1 with is:
"Let us run the show or we leave and set up GP1."
or have they done this already ?
#36
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:24
So ...Mercedes and Ferrari build their own PU , spending tons of money in the process , trying to gain an advantage on the competition and RedBull would like to skip that process altogether and expect to be given the same chance to win as them. Don't really want to sound too anarchic but a team should be responsible for their own fortunes and i think RB should be responsible themselves to find an engine for their amazing chassis. Surely current engine regs are scaring manufacturers away , but there HAVE to be benefits for those who go through the pain (and costs) of building their own engines.
#37
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:26
I don't think the top brass at Ferrari will take too kindly to being dragged into this quit threat.
Customer engine or go away and stay away.
I could take customer cars...if Red Bull leaves hahahaha.
And vote for 18 years legal age for enery drinks enforced in EU! And illegal to sell Vodka Red Bull drinks at bars.
#38
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:28
Bernie should negotiate a deal. And perhaps warm RB up to have 2 Engine suppliers.
TR us about as important to keep in F1. Convince Renault to continue supplying, or better: warm up Mercedes to supply them, being less of a challenger than the mothership.
RB are playing hardball. Would they not prefer engines one small spec behind, to have better reliability? Not 40bhp older of course.
#39
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:29
Because they're not investing in the technology that drives these engines. They're just buying them.The vitriol in this thread is depressing. Okay, I get it, Christian Horner and Helmut Marko are unlikable characters. You hate that your favourite driver had his backside handed to him for four years straight because of Red Bull's dominance.
But remember that everything Red Bull did they did that as a customer team of Renault. As Marko said last week, Red Bull have always paid for their engines, even if the Infiniti hookup helped offset some of the cost in the later years. All they are asking for is the right to remain competitive for wins as a customer team, and not become Ferrari's bitch like Williams are to Mercedes. How can any of us be happy with an F1 that only allows one or two works teams to ever fight for wins? It's downright boring. I want to see Red Bull, Williams, Force India and Sauber able to fight for wins, at least occasionally. In 2012 we had seven different winners in the first seven races. And we ultimately had an insanely close end to the year in Brazil.
So their point is a good one, IMO, in a broader context. The way works teams are dominating and manipulating the fate of their customers in this engine era outright sucks. It's not good for the sport at all.
Also, I would be very disappointed to see the likes of Verstappen, Ricciardo, Kyvat and Sainz out of F1. They are some of the best drivers in the sport. But hey it's okay we've got Guttierez, Maldonaldo and Ericsson. Wonderful.
Red Bull have done an enormous amount for this sport. They are currently backed up against a wall in their quest to be competitive. Yeah they've probably made missteps along the way but I personally appreciate an attitude that says "we're here to win or we're out".
You want works engines, then compensate for the R&D etc. I say it now. No way Red Bull get a works deal. It just not economically viable while development is ongoing.
Edited by Ferrari2183, 22 September 2015 - 14:31.
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#40
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:33
The vitriol in this thread is depressing. Okay, I get it, Christian Horner and Helmut Marko are unlikable characters. You hate that your favourite driver had his backside handed to him for four years straight because of Red Bull's dominance.
But remember that everything Red Bull did they did that as a customer team of Renault. As Marko said last week, Red Bull have always paid for their engines, even if the Infiniti hookup helped offset some of the cost in the later years. All they are asking for is the right to remain competitive for wins as a customer team, and not become Ferrari's bitch like Williams are to Mercedes.
Care to substantiate that claim ?
#41
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:34
not news tbh, Horner was telling that to anybody that would listen over the weekend. It's basically a tactic to paint Ferrari into a corner and force them to supply current spec engines (Ferrari afaik are happy to supply them with 2015 engines, not 2016 spec ones though)
#42
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:35
The vitriol in this thread is depressing. Okay, I get it, Christian Horner and Helmut Marko are unlikable characters. You hate that your favourite driver had his backside handed to him for four years straight because of Red Bull's dominance.
But remember that everything Red Bull did they did that as a customer team of Renault. As Marko said last week, Red Bull have always paid for their engines, even if the Infiniti hookup helped offset some of the cost in the later years. All they are asking for is the right to remain competitive for wins as a customer team, and not become Ferrari's bitch like Williams are to Mercedes. How can any of us be happy with an F1 that only allows one or two works teams to ever fight for wins? It's downright boring. I want to see Red Bull, Williams, Force India and Sauber able to fight for wins, at least occasionally. In 2012 we had seven different winners in the first seven races. And we ultimately had an insanely close end to the year in Brazil.
So their point is a good one, IMO, in a broader context. The way works teams are dominating and manipulating the fate of their customers in this engine era outright sucks. It's not good for the sport at all.
Also, I would be very disappointed to see the likes of Verstappen, Ricciardo, Kyvat and Sainz out of F1. They are some of the best drivers in the sport. But hey it's okay we've got Guttierez, Maldonaldo and Ericsson. Wonderful.
Red Bull have done an enormous amount for this sport. They are currently backed up against a wall in their quest to be competitive. Yeah they've probably made missteps along the way but I personally appreciate an attitude that says "we're here to win or we're out".
if we can't have the best, we quit.
what about ferrari?
should they just give red Bull their best product?
**** red bull, let them work as sportsmen with respect for the time and resources that Mercedes and ferrari have invested to get where they are
#43
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:36
Lets just have spec engines a see an end to the manufactures, and let the teams do what they do best, build cars.
#44
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:37
#45
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:38
Ferrari would be insane to give them engine parity.
#46
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:39
Engine builders who own their own team is what's killing F1. Yeah, they spend a shitload of money on the engine. But nobody else has a chance if they are given downgraded engines. It is not only RBR who have this problem. Williams, Sauber, and such suffer from it too. They don't have half a billion dollars lying around to build a competitive powerunit. That was hardly an option when the engines were still 'classic', but the last 2 years it is really impossible. Sometimes I wonder why a Sauber is still in F1. For the love of the sport? To get you arse whooped every weekend by manufacturer teams who spend a kazillion more than you?
Oh sure, RBR and TR out, let's get rid of that/those whiners and their cars, their talent drivers (unlike Sauber pay drivers, Maldonado and anyone who offers enough cash for a Manor seat). Just Ferrari vs Mercedes for the next couple of years, that will be a joy to watch. Austria off the calender. RBR sponsor money out of the sport. Less worth for TV stations, less income for CVC, less money to all other teams, more power for manufacturers with deeper pockets. Yahoo!..... Who cares about the job losses, the suppliers. And the fans of RBR/TR will not be missed at the tracks. They will find somebody else to cheer for, right.....
The whole concept of F1 with these engines, the financial distribution, the regulations, the teams having to agree on rules, shareholders sucking the money out and such is so very wrong.
#47
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:42
Have to say I can at least understand their POV in so far that by all accounts their chassis is back up to scratch, but they simply have no possibility to influence the engine development of Renault(and let's not forget their engine actually got worse this year!).
Red Bull are in it to win it, they are a commited and hardworking team who find themselves in a situation where they seemingly did everything that was needed to acheive success but are loosing out because of circumstances beyond their control. None of us know what has been going for the past two years regarding the Renault V6 engine, but obviously RB feel they have been strongly let down by their partner.
If there is no chance for RB to get their hands on a competitive engine, why should they not quit the sport?
In a way this whole story just shows that thanks to the new engine formula the only teams able to win are the worksteams, which of course was also the reason for Mcclaren to do the risky switch to Honda this year.
Merc can talk about supplying identical engines all they want, the fact that they don't want to power the RB cars shows that this is only true as long as they are head and shoulders above their customers.
This is incidentally what i loved about the last formula, where McClaren actually one against the Mercedes Team and RB did better than Renault.
But if RB know this is not possible in 2016/17, why shoud they even turn up.
I'll definitely be sad to see them go as they added quality and competition to every season since 2008 and are doing so even now when they can.
We're all whining about how boring F1 is, imagine how much worse it will be without those 4 cars.
#48
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:42
That would be a huge loss for F1 not matter if you like RB or not.
#49
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:46
Engine builders who own their own team is what's killing F1. Yeah, they spend a shitload of money on the engine. But nobody else has a chance if they are given downgraded engines. It is not only RBR who have this problem. Williams, Sauber, and such suffer from it too. They don't have half a billion dollars lying around to build a competitive powerunit. That was hardly an option when the engines were still 'classic', but the last 2 years it is really impossible. Sometimes I wonder why a Sauber is still in F1. For the love of the sport? To get you arse whooped every weekend by manufacturer teams who spend a kazillion more than you?
Oh sure, RBR and TR out, let's get rid of that/those whiners and their cars, their talent drivers (unlike Sauber pay drivers, Maldonado and anyone who offers enough cash for a Manor seat). Just Ferrari vs Mercedes for the next couple of years, that will be a joy to watch. Austria off the calender. RBR sponsor money out of the sport. Less worth for TV stations, less income for CVC, less money to all other teams, more power for manufacturers with deeper pockets. Yahoo!..... Who cares about the job losses, the suppliers. And the fans of RBR/TR will not be missed at the tracks. They will find somebody else to cheer for, right.....
The whole concept of F1 with these engines, the financial distribution, the regulations, the teams having to agree on rules, shareholders sucking the money out and such is so very wrong.
It's not that concept that's causing the mess, it's the technical specification. It's been a complete and utter disaster. but that's what the FIA do... just look at what they've done to their karting classes.
#50
Posted 22 September 2015 - 14:46
oh Waaaaah, waaaah! boo whoo!
Yeah, I get that the Renault engines have been a bit explosive this year and last. But a handful of wins last year and up there competing for podiums in some races this year.
If Renault can nail reliability then RedBull will right in the mix. After a very dominant period they cant handle 2 years in a lull?