135 replies to this topic

[Dick Willis]

Roy has not been in the land of the living for some time.

[artracing]

Dick, yes it is I guess possible that everyone I am looking for is unfortunately not with us, everyone who could have been involved is over 75.  But I am hoping that if I can determine where people raced, or what car clubs they were involved with, I can find some links.  There is a photo of this car out there somewhere.

 

Regards,

 

John

[artracing]

So its been exactly a year since I last posted here; though I would provide an update.

 

The image is Geoff Shaw and Trevor Marden (owner of Nota 33) sitting in Nota 35.  I will leave others to judge the front suspension pickup points, chassis, firewall area etc vs the photos of my car, but I am convinced they are the same car.  Obviously it has the original 1098 A series and single weber which is how it is being restored.

 

The only thing I haven't sorted is the owner between approx 1966 when Geoff sold it, and 1969/70 when John Horsnell bought it in Broadmeadows Newcastle.  I still believe the Nov 1968 RCN ad for  Nota for sale could be this car, but have not found any information to link it.  

 

 

Edited by artracing, 29 July 2018 - 03:28.

[Ray Bell]

Is it possibly the car which started Mike Lance's illustrious career?

He bought it, I'm sure, with a Corolla engine installed. As he was racing it from about 1973, I'm sure it already had that engine when he got it.

Later it was owned by Richard Steigler for a short time.

[artracing]

No definitely not.  The car was Austin 1098 engined till around 78, then Corolla engined till about 82, then Ford engined.  I have 11 owners for it over 57 years, hopefully just one to go.

 

John

[cooper997]

Dick Willis has asked for this photo from last weekend's Grafton Hillclimb to be added to this thread.

 

He was competing at Grafton with his Nota Major and two others to create quite a rare sight with the 3 Guy Buckingham cars together

l to r ; Nota 46, Mike Gosbell ; Nota 29 (Nota Major ) Dick Willis ; Nota 31, Dave Morrow.

 

I'll leave it up to Dick to tell how he went.
 

 

Stephen

[Patrick Fletcher]

I wonder if Nota 46 is my old car - sure looks like it!  Stephen,did it have a short history in NZ.

[Dick Willis]

Yes it did live in NZ for a time.

[Patrick Fletcher]

That's cool, last time I saw it was when it was tucked into a Q 747 cargo on it's way to Melbourne and then off to Queenstown in Tasmania.

[markalexander]

I have some questions that are very much related to the original parts of this topic.

 

What year did Nota start in Australia? What was done in the early years?

 

I have been restoring and trying to trace the history of the Nota Fiat – chassis number 4 for a bit over 20 years now. Unfortunately for the Nota there have been a lot of distractions like kids, work, boats, and other cars.

 

The Nota Fiat may be the oldest surviving Australian built Nota – I don’t believe numbers 1 to 3 are around now?

 

I still cannot work out what year it was built, or how long it took to build.

 

I have race results from Tarrawingee in Nov 1959 and it appeared in articles and advertisements in Sports Car World and Sports Car Specials in early 1959 and 1960. This originally led me to think that it must have been built around 1957 to 1959, particularly as one article “Among the Notae” SCW Feb 1959, refers to the Nota Fiat being built/completed at the time of writing (date?).

But Chassis number 5 is attributed a build date of 1955, so logically, chassis number 4 must have built in 1955 or earlier. There are also notes written on my copy of the Nota Chassis Records which indicate that chassis no. 8 was logbooked in 55/56, and that chassis no. 13 was logbooked in 1957, although I don’t know the source of these notes and can’t verify them. (According to CAMS logbooks started in 1967??)

 

At the beginning of this topic, there is discussion about early Nota chassis being built in 1956, which supported my 1957 – 1959 theory for number 4.  So, I went to the Chassis Records to look for them, thinking that they may be no. 1 or 2. But no, they are not listed. Were they built before the records started? Or were they built alongside other cars, but not listed?

 

Then there is the Ralt parts. The Nota Fiat has Ralt wheels, which according to a letter I have from the great Graham Howard, where introduced around 1957. It also has a De Dion rear axle which appears to be of Ralt origin. In fact, based on photos, it looks identical to the De Dion axle in Ralt 4. I understand that Ralt 4 was still racing until 1962, so unless the axle was removed and replaced in Ralt 4 prior to 1959 (and subsequently fitted to the Nota Fiat), then it must have been a second Ralt axle produced and fitted to the Nota Fiat. Either way, an article written for SCW June 1957 “RALTS” puts the construction of Ralt 4 (and the De Dion axle) as ‘early last year’ – 1956.

 

So, was the Nota Fiat’s chassis built in 1955, but not finished until 1959? If so, surely someone will remember it being in the factory? With such a high turn over of cars, it would have been a pain in the neck to have it sitting there for 4 years. Or did it all start a bit later?

 

BTW, I am also very keen to get in touch with any other previous owners of the Nota Fiat - I am still trying to piece together it's history. I have actually learnt a lot from this forum topic.

 

Mark

[Ray Bell]

Did Graham Howard mention Malcolm Smith?

If so, give him a call, 02 9771 1206.

He'll tell you an interesting tale of the previous owner. Malcolm had a Nota Fiat about 1974.

[markalexander]

Thanks Ray - I will give him a call

 

Mark

[bradbury west]

Ray, please be sure to pass on our good wishes to Malcolm. A few years have passed now, but he is still well thought of at this end.
Roger

[Ray Bell]

Shall do, Roger...

Another question I've not answered here is about when Nota started. I think the early posts I made in this thread summed that up pretty well.

With the proviso that I might have (must have?) missed some racing cars in the '57-'60 period because I was looking specifically for sports car results.

[Joe Bosworth]

Mark

 

Let me throw some information on to your queries of post #110.  I believe that the following to be about as close to accurate as you can get at this point in time.

My information sources are partly from Bruce Bloodworth's and Rod Moore's very good book published in 2006 and augmented by my copy of Guy's hand written notes provided to by his wife Barrie in 1981/2. (I came on the Nota scene in late 1960.  This means I was too late to know of earlier stuff by first hand but the early history stuff came up by discussions from time to time.)

 

The Buckingham family sailed from London in January 1956 so no Notas were built in 1955.  The English re-built cars were known as "Arnolds".

 

There were four 1956 built cars recorded but did not formally carry the Nota name except in retrospect.  It is generally accepted that first car to carry Nota badging from new was number 5 built in 1957 for the Amos brothers. There were a total of 11 cars listed for the 1957 build year.

 

As an "I think" the Harry Troost #4 must have been completed well before 1959 but I will check with others who might have a first hand knowledge. Guy's hand written notes record the alloy "Ralt?" wheels as being from new.  They could have been Ralt sourced as Nota has no record of other than steel wheels until much later.  The dedion was fabricated from A40 bits with no record as being from Ralt.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

 

Joe

[markalexander]

Joe

 

Thank you so much for this. You have no idea how much I appreciate your help.

 

Can you please elaborate on your comments on the first 4 cars built in 1956? I assume the the Nota-Fiat is one of these?

 

The Nota-Fiat does not have a chassis plate, and although it is entirely possible that it has been lost over the years. I have been told in the past that it pre-dated the chassis plates.  Also, from photos of the car in the magazine articles, it does not appear to have a Nota badge on the nose. However, along with the earlier 3 cars (including Alec Lazich's car (Chassis no. 3), it is detailed in the Nota chassis records with no indication that there is any change in status between no. 4 and no. 5. 

 

By 1959, Chassis number 4 is being referred to as the 'Nota Fiat' in race results.

 

Is it just the badging you are talking about, or were they built before Nota Engineering started as a company? 

 

I am afraid that I don't own a copy of the book. Out of interest, is the detail on the first 4 cars from the book, or from Guy's notes?

 

I will post some photos of the De Dion rear axle later, but yes, I believe a lot of the work was done at Nota and certainly using A40 parts, but the tube itself looks suspiciously similar to the one in Ralt 4.

 

Thanks, Mark

[markalexander]

Interesting that with the first 4 chassis being built in 1956, this means that they were built alongside the Col James chassis discussed earlier in post 13, however, the Col James chassis is not listed in the chassis records.

[DanTra2858]

A correction ; The John Schroder car at the WF opening meeting was the Nota Renault, not one of the Nota BMCs as I at first thought.

[DanTra2858]

I am doing History on the Nota Renault that was owned from 1963 to 1969 by Stan Hunt In Wollongong which ran at Huntley Hill Climb, there is noted results of another driver in 1963 by the name of Keith Edwards who ran I believe this same car prior to Stan, does this ring any bells.

I do not know how many Nota Renaults were built but for some unknown reason I have a feeling there could of been 3, would some one with knowledge please confirm History of Renault powered cars.

There is also listings of Jack Myers driving at a Catalina Meeting in a Nota Renault or was it another Renault Special?

At the present time Ian Fay? from Wollongong is owner/running a Renault open wheeler is it a Nota?

I have posted a photo of Stans car on the Nota Facebook page & finally are copies of the Nota book of models available hard copy or Digital.

[Dick Willis]

Daniel, as far as I can see there was only one Nota Renault, no 24, listed in the Nota book, and sorry, I don't know where you can get a copy of the book.

 

The car in which Jack Myers was killed at Catalina was an early Lynx/Ralt  chassis powered by twin Triumph Thunderbird motors. I t was the only open wheeler he drove at Catalina.

 

Hope all this helps.

[john medley]

Nota Renault was driven by John Schroder at Opening Warwick Farm meeting, and Joe Bosworth at Bathurst ( see Bathurst book). I have a pic of JS and Guy and other attendants with car at Warwick Farm (but cannot post). Keith Edwards had the car later, advertising it for sale (including "never crashed") in Racing Car News the cover pic of which showed him crashing at Oran Park. Arthur Anson later hillclimbed the Nota Renault, then I lost track of it: fits your current time line....

[Ray Bell]

Later there was a Nota Renault F3 car...

Owned and raced by Ian Cook.

[DanTra2858]

So. Confirmed that there was only the one, thank you. Would I be correct in assuming that it would of been running a Gordine motor, 4 speed gearbox from a Dauphine, with the gearbox at the rear was it as simple as turning it upside down as you do in FV or was it more complicated?

The first owner was John Schroder, did Joe Bosworth ever own the car or was just a driver for Schroder? Then the next owner is???? Keith Edwards? Then Stan Hunt.

Still working on where it ended up but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Many thanks to all.

[john medley]

Actual ownership unclear to me (but Joe Bosworth if available could be of assistance), because Guy B / Michael Martin basically built them at Smith Street-- although so did the Schroders up the road at Town and Country Garage at north end of Parramatta-- and various associates & friends drove them. It MAY be true that ownership went factory ( ie Guy) first owned, then JS then JB, certainly to KE ownership 1962 or 63, crashed Oran Park by KE ( cover pic RCN June 1964 + advert in that RCN issue).

[Ray Bell]

Here's the RCN cover pic...



Sorry about the poor quality, but I can only do decent pics in the daytime. This one shows the 'Barracuda Ford' romping away as the Nota crashes with a wheel gone missing (but clearly seen in the pic) and Brian Milton spinning the MVW and John might know the other car going by.

[DanTra2858]

Thanks John very interesting, am following up Ian Fay on his Renault Special. Any idear on the Renault Gearbox question?

[john medley]

Ex Head Bros MGTD Special, then rotating Nota Renault, then Brian Milton's VW Special, then Cooper Minx

[Ray Bell]

Not the Barracuda?

I guess, then, it might be a year or two early for that monster.

Anyway, I'm glad you blokes appreciate me putting up the photo.

[DanTra2858]

We sure do Ray, have you any more of the Nota Renault? Or History of ownership of the past?

[Ray Bell]

No, I don't, but I thought it might be better with the picture up so someone who does might see it...

I don't even know where the Ian Cook Nota went to. It had the later (R8) Gordini engine.

[SJ Lambert]

My mate, Craig Trenham, in Tassie, has it these days. It has had Corolla (Toyota 3K) power since 1974.

Edited by SJ Lambert, 10 June 2019 - 04:16.

[SJ Lambert]

Craig’s pics

Edited by SJ Lambert, 10 June 2019 - 07:50.

[SJ Lambert]

My understanding is that in 1970/71 it competed with a Renault 1100cc engine.  In 1972 a 1300 cc Gordini engine went into it with the F3 class capacity increase.

 

In 1974 a bored (to 1295cc ) Toyota engine and Hewland 5 speed was fitted - the Toyota/Hewland combo continues in service today. 

[Joe Bosworth]

Actual ownership unclear to me (but Joe Bosworth if available could be of assistance), because Guy B / Michael Martin basically built them at Smith Street-- although so did the Schroders up the road at Town and Country Garage at north end of Parramatta-- and various associates & friends drove them. It MAY be true that ownership went factory ( ie Guy) first owned, then JS then JB, certainly to KE ownership 1962 or 63, crashed Oran Park by KE ( cover pic RCN June 1964 + advert in that RCN issue).

John - I can be of some help regarding early days.  I have a copy of Guy's hand written notes which clearly show that chassis 24 was "built for Schroders" in early 1960. This makes perfect sense as their family owned Town and Country Garage which among other things was a Renault dealer.  My involvement was only as a guest driver at Bathurst I got the gig as I had shown some real speed driving the two front engine Juniors, chassis 22 and 27.  I actually finished the build of #27 that had been started before I came on the scene in latish 1960.  I also had the advantage as having owned and raced a Porshe Speedster in the US so had expereience with rear engined slid back axle race cars.

 

As two matters aside the Bathurst drive:  Graham Howard and I came to the conclusion that the second race was the first FJ race in Oz. And the chassis 24 car was most unsuited to Bathurst.  The Renault engine was most devoid of putting torque to the road which was further hampered by the Renault gearbox carrying standard gear ratios quite suitable only for French road use.  Further, the chassis was ultra flexible, a feature not replicated on any later Nota.  Plus I was interested to see the photo of it loosing a front wheel at Oran Park as I certainly waasn't about to test the front a-arms to the whole at the dipper as it was configured in those days.

 

I can't remember it leaving T & C hands until much later in the 1960s.

 

Regards.

[Ray Bell]

Just re-reading this...

I'm not sure that Daniel got the message that there was a later Nota Renault than the one in question. The Ian Cook car as pictured with Corolla engine is not the early car shown losing a wheel at Oran Park.

[Lee Nicolle]

Craig’s pics

Very neat and I presume functional. But not real pretty