29 replies to this topic

[Andy35]

They seem to cost more

They sound rubbish

They make teams leave F1

 

They were promoted as what makes car manufacturers need to do to be in F1; so they can move the science gained over on F1 over to the road cars. Hmmm. Perhaps that is why VW is not in F1, just give them a cheap diesel and some funky software... miles cheaper. 

 

Mind you I did take my car down to the garage the other day for a service

 

Them  "It's £120 including the oil change"

Me   " Can I use 12 of my 32 tokens?"

Them " No"

 

Bastids

 

Andy

[MirNyet]

Undercooked rather than pants.

 

Go twin turbo to help with the noise, and twin MGU-H accordingly, raise the HP possible via the MGU-K and remove the harvesting limits and ES limits and lower the min weights on the PU and ES and you would start to get somewhere.

[CountDooku]

Oh great, another engine-bashing thread.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Nothing wrong with the new V6T's you have to move with the times...

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 29 September 2015 - 15:04.

[rhukkas]

Nothing wrong with the new V6T's you have to move with the times...

 

Formula E is moving with the times.

[Mat13]

Your three points are an assumption, your opinion and bollocks respectively.

 

I think the new engines are cracking. They sound better (in my opinion), and the MGU-H is the best thing to be bolted to an engine since someone fitted a turbo to the classic mini.

[V8 Fireworks]

 

 

Nothing wrong with the new V6T's you have to move with the times...

 

PS. I agree with OP.  The "power units" are utterly lacklustre.

 

 

The hybrid F1 cars are not only wildly overcomplicated but, worse, they are also slow and heavy... What is so great about these V6Ts?   

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 29 September 2015 - 15:31.

[RedBaron]

I think the new engines are cracking. They sound better (in my opinion)

 

 

 

[SilverArrow31]

awwww not this again......

[SealTheDiffuser]

Formula E is moving with the times.

 

they move a lot slower than the times

[Fastcake]

None of the problems commonly associated with the engines have anything to do with the fact that they are hybrids.

 

They cost more because they forgot to put a cost cap on a customer engine supply like there was with the V8s, and because moving from one engine design to another requires significant investment in redesigning car components. This would have been the case regardless of what engine formula you switched to, and I think we all recognise that eventually the engines would have to change from frozen V8s. You couldn't keep the same engines from 2007 running forever.

 

The issues with development and the tokens are completely separate to the engine formula and could be changed easily if there's any will to do so. You could have hybrids with open development just like we used to have V8s with no development.

 

The sound will always remain a subjective issue, but you could change the sound while keeping the MGU-H and K on board.

 

 

Does that cover everything?

[Andrew Hope]

No: shorts are a bit pants.

[pdac]

Formula E is moving with the times.

 

They don't need to be exclusive and there are many opinions as to whether fully electric does have a future.

[V8 Fireworks]

None of the problems commonly associated with the engines have anything to do with the fact that they are hybrids.

 

 

Weight.

 

The F1 cars are bloated and wildly overweight.

Surely the hybrid system is the main cause of this?

 

This causes slow laptimes and a mediocre spectacle.

 

The key to a racing car is to add lightness.  For now, hybrid technology is immature and instead of using hybrids to add lightness to the car (by increasing efficiency so much that the combined power unit with batteries is lighter than a pure combustion engine of equal total power), it adds weight. 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 29 September 2015 - 15:38.

[Jon83]

Used, horrible pants. In fact a bag full of them.

[Requiem84]

V6T: 

 

Already a lot more HP than V8's
Much higher top speeds

Laptimes are getting closer to V8 era (need to get rid of some weigt, cars are no about 100 kg heavier than in V10 era..)

 

V6T's made Honda come back. V6T's for the very first time made VAG interested in F1. 

 

No, it's not perfect. The sound should be addressed. Weight limits should be lowered over the course of the seasons, cars should be faster in racetrim, but it's already better than the V8's imo. 

 

Only I really miss is impressive sound. However, I do like the sound of the scrubbing tires that you can hear now! Plus; the increased focus on electrical energy means drivers can play more with engine modes, which aids overtaking. The V8 basically had 1 powermode, limited by fuel consumption. 

[V8 Fireworks]

V6T: 

 

Already a lot more HP than V8's < V10s are the benchmark, not V8s
Much higher top speeds < Means nothing.. the spectacle is in the corners...  Indianoplis motor speedway average speed, with corners, is higher than the momentary top speed of all F1 cars on F1 circuits.

Laptimes are getting closer to V8 era (need to get rid of some weigt, cars are no about 100 kg heavier than in V10 era..) < V8s already lapped slowly, especially in the Grand prixs... they looked like they were cruising... So they looked slow, which is bad.  Now they look slow and sound slow too, which is even worse.

 

Precisely the problem.  

 

need to get rid of some weigt, cars are no about 100 kg heavier than in V10 era..) 

 

Utterly disgusting.     Chapman would be horrified.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 29 September 2015 - 15:43.

[SilverArrow31]

Look the engines are the future, these cars are hybrids, the prototypes are hybrids, the new generation of hyper cars are hybrids, hybrids are the future and more than that they are utterly brilliant!! the technology is incredible, these cars can do a lot more with much less, that means less wastage and it means less noise, personally I like the fact that every tiny bit of energy the cars create go into making them faster!
 
They don't make teams leave F1, Red bull are just being twits Honda is already back, Renault is getting a works team, and Audi are working on a works team, I would rather that than Dietrich I am losing interest in F1 because I'm not winning Mateschitz.

 

This is only the second year of the hybrids. They are not being developed quickly because the small teams will be unable to keep up with the cost's but they will get faster and they will get cheaper. They are more expensive because they are better engines, and more powerful than the v8's at least.

 

The engines are not F1's problem. Bernie and the lack of competition is. Which F1 has always had in certain years, they are nothing new, nor is this topic, in fact this is the third time I have written this last line, and again, awwww not this again!!!!!!

[V8 Fireworks]

Look the engines are the future, these cars are hybrids, 

 

+100kg and slower is the future?

 

Doc Brown: What kind of a future do you call that? 

 

Hybrids when mature will be lighter, faster & more efficient.  For now they are MUCH slower and MUCH heavier.  That is rather pants indeed.

 

Clearly it's an immature technology, mandated in a place where it's simply not appropriate IMO.

[Spillage]

Undercooked rather than pants.

 

Go twin turbo to help with the noise, and twin MGU-H accordingly, raise the HP possible via the MGU-K and remove the harvesting limits and ES limits and lower the min weights on the PU and ES and you would start to get somewhere.

Agree with this. F1 has to move with the times, but I do agree that they're too quiet, too slow and too unspectacular. Why do they have to be V6s? Why not make them V12s? Stick some fat rear tyres on the cars so they can put the power down and let's turn F1 cars into roaring monsters once more.

[V8 Fireworks]

 

 

This is only the second year of the hybrids.

 

No, hybrids appeared in F1 in 2009.

[SilverArrow31]

No a third less fuel and more power is....

 

and of these hybrids you know what I meant you

Edited by SilverArrow31, 29 September 2015 - 15:51.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Agree with this. F1 has to move with the times, but I do agree that they're too quiet, too slow and too unspectacular. Why do they have to be V6s? Why not make them V12s? Stick some fat rear tyres on the cars so they can put the power down and let's turn F1 cars into roaring monsters once more.

Because V12's belong with the dinosaurs in the history books...  lol!

[V8 Fireworks]

no a third less fuel and more power is....

 

 

meaningless when they are very heavy and corner slowly and set very slow laptimes. 

 

F = m a

 

where a = v^2 / r

 

(note m is mass in kgs, F is force (in this case frictional force at the tyres), a is the lateral acceleration, while v is the tangential velocity, and r is the radius of the corner.)

 

The lighter you make a car, the faster it can accelerate laterally around a corner -- i.e., it can go around a corner at a faster speed.  It's racing car 101, yet it's ignored with these rules in F1. 

 

 

 

and of these hybrids you know what I meant you

 

[CountDooku]

Do we really need another thread to complain about engines and the Formula?

 

What about here:

 

http://forums.autosp...o-hybrid-sound/

 

http://forums.autosp...ion-has-failed/

 

http://forums.autosp...rmula-one-plus/

 

http://forums.autosp...n-i-were-a-lad/

 

http://forums.autosp...7-rule-changes/

[GrumpyYoungMan]

meaningless when they are very heavy and corner slowly and set very slow laptimes. 

 

F = m a

 

where a = v^2 / r

 

(note m is mass in kgs, F is force (in this case frictional force at the tyres), a is the lateral acceleration, while v is the tangential velocity, and r is the radius of the corner.)

 

The lighter you make a car, the faster it can accelerate laterally around a corner -- i.e., it can go around a corner at a faster speed.  It's racing car 101, yet it's ignored with these rules in F1. 

 

 

But they are heavier, so they should also be using more fuel, which they aren't they are (actually) using (a lot) less fuel?

 

At the end of the V6T's development cycle I would say they will be faster than the V8's...

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 29 September 2015 - 15:59.

[Rob]

Agree with this. F1 has to move with the times, but I do agree that they're too quiet, too slow and too unspectacular. Why do they have to be V6s? Why not make them V12s? Stick some fat rear tyres on the cars so they can put the power down and let's turn F1 cars into roaring monsters once more.

 

Wouldn't a 1.6 litre V12 have less torque than a 1.6 litre V6? For spectacle a V6 would be better, the advantage you get from more cylinders is at the top end. Additionally, if they can put the power down then it's hardly spectacular. You need them to slide.

[GoldenColt]

https://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/

 

Greetings. 

[Treads]

+100kg and slower is the future?

Doc Brown: What kind of a future do you call that?

Hybrids when mature will be lighter, faster & more efficient. For now they are MUCH slower and MUCH heavier. That is rather pants indeed.

Clearly it's an immature technology, mandated in a place where it's simply not appropriate IMO.

The power units are not 100kg heavier. Get your facts straight.

Edited by Treads, 29 September 2015 - 16:02.

[SophieB]

Do we really need another thread to complain about engines and the Formula?
 
What about here:
 
http://forums.autosp...o-hybrid-sound/
 
http://forums.autosp...ion-has-failed/
 
http://forums.autosp...rmula-one-plus/
 
http://forums.autosp...n-i-were-a-lad/
 
http://forums.autosp...7-rule-changes/

This saves me the trouble, thank you. But please do feel free to paste across any of your posts to one of the above threads if you feel it fits there, folks.