Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Grosjean quits Lotus for Haas


  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 Maustinsj

Maustinsj
  • Member

  • 4,910 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 September 2015 - 19:36

http://www.skysports...us-to-join-haas

Advertisement

#2 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,279 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 29 September 2015 - 19:40

Adam Cooper – ‏@adamcooperF1
The key for GRO is that he is now aligned to @ScuderiaFerrari, and if everything works as he hopes he's set to replace RAI in 2017

#3 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 29 September 2015 - 19:43

Suspect that if Red Bull withdraws its teams for 2016 than it will be Verstappen replacing RAI and immediately so.

#4 Heisenberg

Heisenberg
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: May 14

Posted 29 September 2015 - 19:59

Well we certainly haven't witnessed the best from Kimi this year, but if he delivers next year and if he still wants to continue, I don't see why would Ferrari replace him with a driver that isn't exactly better. As for the move itself, good for Romain, a change of environment. I suppose it was also that saturation that came into play, let alone the financial problems of Lotus and the fact their development would stall at best..



#5 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 21,814 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:01

Adam Cooper – ‏@adamcooperF1
The key for GRO is that he is now aligned to @ScuderiaFerrari, and if everything works as he hopes he's set to replace RAI in 2017

Well that's interesting.  

 

I like the move, but he wouldn't be my absolute 1st choice(though my 1st choice probably isn't actually attainable!).  



#6 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 21,814 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:04

but if he delivers next year 

Ferrari dearly have to stop thinking like that.  That's fan fantasy thinking, not smart management.  They spent way too long thinking Massa would finally show up.  And we shouldn't forget Kimi has now spent 5 years at Ferrari, so they're not necessarily new to the idea of him not always performing at a top level.  



#7 hittheapex

hittheapex
  • Member

  • 1,193 posts
  • Joined: July 14

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:05

If everything works as Grosjean hopes....doesn't mean it's even what Ferrari hope, let alone what Ferrari will do. There's probably half a dozen drivers with a shout at the 2017 Ferrari seat. Grosjean can get it, but he needs to have a very good 2016.



#8 Volcano70

Volcano70
  • Member

  • 871 posts
  • Joined: August 15

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:14

:)



#9 MNader

MNader
  • Member

  • 452 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:16

Good for Romain, i think he is a great talent, but i don't think this is a good move for his career



#10 Mohican

Mohican
  • Member

  • 1,965 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:30

Do not see why Haas in 2016 should be a particular avenue to Ferrari the following year. Hulkenberg thought the same when signing for Sauber for 2013 and that did not work.

Cue Trulli & Kovalainen at Caterham or Glock at Virgin.

In addition, why leave Lotus/Renault at all ? Seems odd that he will not have been given any reassurances at all by Renault; or else he really thought that Lotus would fold and he would be left on the shelf.

#11 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,495 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:35

Maybe he's turning 30 and realized that he's got to start earning a salary if he wants the ex-F1 driver lifestyle.

 

Plus, well, at least Haas are 100% certain to be on the grid next year.


Edited by Risil, 29 September 2015 - 20:35.


#12 LeClerc

LeClerc
  • Member

  • 24,666 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:38

Maybe he's turning 30 and realized that he's got to start earning a salary if he wants the ex-F1 driver lifestyle.

 

Plus, well, at least Haas are 100% certain to be on the grid next year.

 

I hope they are paying him well, because he'll be tooling around with the Manors next year, and not necessarily in front of them. I rate him well, but Haas is most likely not going to set the world on fire.



#13 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,495 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:42

I've completely lost track of the "Is Haas a stalking/prancing horse for customer cars" storyline, so I have no idea where Grosjean will be next year.

 

On the other hand I do remember when half the forum inexplicably called him "Grow John". Good times.



#14 Maustinsj

Maustinsj
  • Member

  • 4,910 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:43

I blame autocorrect.

#15 Heisenberg

Heisenberg
  • Member

  • 701 posts
  • Joined: May 14

Posted 29 September 2015 - 20:46

Ferrari dearly have to stop thinking like that.  That's fan fantasy thinking, not smart management.  They spent way too long thinking Massa would finally show up.  And we shouldn't forget Kimi has now spent 5 years at Ferrari, so they're not necessarily new to the idea of him not always performing at a top level.  

I agree with a lot of your points, but Kimi is 4th in the championship, can we stop acting like he is terrible already? 4th, in the second best car! Was Massa ever right behind Alonso during their time together? I don't think so. And let's not forget that Kimi also made some mistakes this year and also had some technical issues. So no, I wasn't saying he would all of a sudden pull off stellar performances or anything, don't get me wrong, all I'm saying is he can be good enough for Ferrari, at least in car NUMBER 2!

 

That being said, if they'd go for Grosjean, it wouldn't be a tragedy either, he might just pull off some good results. I agree with you, he wouldn't be my 1st choice either. But then again, these are his hopes, maybe Ferrari isn't even interested in him, although I suspect they would follow his performances much closer next year, just in case.


Edited by Heisenberg, 29 September 2015 - 20:49.


#16 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 44,037 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 29 September 2015 - 21:24

Who ya gonna root for if Rossi and Haas are battling it out for 18th?

#17 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,267 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 29 September 2015 - 21:41

It's a great signing for Haas, but it's a very confusing decision from Grosjean. Why leave what is about to be a Renault works team for a startup? I'd be amazed if Haas were off the back of the grid last year. Perhaps Grosjean is lining himself up for a Ferrari seat or perhaps he thinks the Renault buyout of Lotus will fall through, but it still seems like one hell of a gamble. I really hope he hasn't just Timo-Glocked his career here.



#18 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 23,177 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 29 September 2015 - 21:46

It's a great signing for Haas, but it's a very confusing decision from Grosjean. Why leave what is about to be a Renault works team for a startup? I'd be amazed if Haas were off the back of the grid last year. Perhaps Grosjean is lining himself up for a Ferrari seat or perhaps he thinks the Renault buyout of Lotus will fall through, but it still seems like one hell of a gamble. I really hope he hasn't just Timo-Glocked his career here.

 

We've been through this on a few threads already. I agree with you, it's too big a gamble to take. I think the most likely explanations are either:

 

a) it's Renault who doesn't want him due to some personal conflict

b) Renault taking over Lotus isn't as certain as we think

c) Renault isn't willing to spend much on the team and won't win anytime soon (and we know they're way behind on engine)

d) Haas is going to be way more competitive than we think due to having a car very similar to Ferrari

 

Could even be all of these reasons. Would make Lotus/Renault not that desirable a place to stay at, so why not throw the dice.


Edited by noikeee, 29 September 2015 - 21:46.


#19 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,267 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 29 September 2015 - 21:50

I've completely lost track of the "Is Haas a stalking/prancing horse for customer cars" storyline, so I have no idea where Grosjean will be next year.

 

On the other hand I do remember when half the forum inexplicably called him "Grow John". Good times.

It came from this (equally inexplicable) post. Still, at least the guy eventually got what he wanted :p


Edited by Spillage, 29 September 2015 - 21:50.


Advertisement

#20 MNader

MNader
  • Member

  • 452 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 29 September 2015 - 21:56

We've been through this on a few threads already. I agree with you, it's too big a gamble to take. I think the most likely explanations are either:

 

a) it's Renault who doesn't want him due to some personal conflict

b) Renault taking over Lotus isn't as certain as we think

c) Renault isn't willing to spend much on the team and won't win anytime soon (and we know they're way behind on engine)

d) Haas is going to be way more competitive than we think due to having a car very similar to Ferrari

 

Could even be all of these reasons. Would make Lotus/Renault not that desirable a place to stay at, so why not throw the dice.

 

I think option B is likely, as Grosjean has good ties with French makers and features quite good in Ads and what else



#21 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,267 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 29 September 2015 - 22:00

We've been through this on a few threads already. I agree with you, it's too big a gamble to take. I think the most likely explanations are either:

 

a) it's Renault who doesn't want him due to some personal conflict

b) Renault taking over Lotus isn't as certain as we think

c) Renault isn't willing to spend much on the team and won't win anytime soon (and we know they're way behind on engine)

d) Haas is going to be way more competitive than we think due to having a car very similar to Ferrari

 

Could even be all of these reasons. Would make Lotus/Renault not that desirable a place to stay at, so why not throw the dice.

Agreed. I don't think Grosjean thinks is a long-term move - even if Renault isn't willing to spend a lot on Lotus, I'd be amazed if they weren't ahead of Haas for the net few seasons. I think he must be either expecting the deal to fall through and the Enstone team to fold or hoping to get a Ferrari seat out of it. I mean, Eddie Jordan ran the most successful privateer startup of the past thirty years and even then it took seven years for them to win a race, so it's difficult to see how he can achieve what he wants at Haas.



#22 LeClerc

LeClerc
  • Member

  • 24,666 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 29 September 2015 - 22:02

Who ya gonna root for if Rossi and Haas are battling it out for 18th?

 

Sato, obviously !!



#23 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 4,954 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 29 September 2015 - 22:02

Suspect that if Red Bull withdraws its teams for 2016 than it will be Verstappen replacing RAI and immediately so.

 

That's a funny way to spell Ricciardo...



#24 917k

917k
  • Member

  • 2,958 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 29 September 2015 - 22:33

It came from this (equally inexplicable) post. Still, at least the guy eventually got what he wanted :p

 

Ah, good times.....



#25 Widefoot2

Widefoot2
  • Member

  • 2,321 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 29 September 2015 - 22:49

I don't understand the signing (on Grosjean's side), unless he's got an option to bolt to Ferrari after a year.  I rate him highly as a driver, but if Haas wants him for development purposes why would they sign him for just a year?  I'd think that Haas would want a 2-3 year contract for continuity during the "growing pains" period.

 

I watched the announcement on the web, certainly another area that Haas needs to develop is their presentation - a number of sloppy elements to the conference, including pixelized Haas logos and the presenter getting Günther and Gene's names confused at least once.  Still, really pleased to see a USA presence in F1 again, hope it goes well.

 

#26 Nathan

Nathan
  • Member

  • 6,921 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 29 September 2015 - 23:16

Isn't it just a one-year deal?  Maybe a driver option?

 

Williams may become interested as well.

 

I wonder if this speaks to Renault's ideas for running a work team.


Edited by Nathan, 29 September 2015 - 23:21.


#27 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 5,200 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 29 September 2015 - 23:20

Not suprised any driver worth his salt is staying well clear of renault.



#28 FNG

FNG
  • Member

  • 5,746 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 29 September 2015 - 23:28

I don't understand why everyone is crapping on Renault. They have been in and out of F1 for YEARS with great success. They build a crap engine for 1.5 years and suddenly drivers won't go near them? Laughable.

 

drivers will be falling over themselves to get a factory Renault seat. I think Grosjean split to Haas because he wasn't sure if Renault will buy Lotus. If Renault don't buy Lotus then they are bankrupt and he is left without a seat. I don't think he was running from Renault.



#29 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 6,129 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 30 September 2015 - 00:35

Good move for Roman Growjohn I say.



#30 Volcano70

Volcano70
  • Member

  • 871 posts
  • Joined: August 15

Posted 30 September 2015 - 01:08

Maybe one of the reasons that i'm happy here as Grosjean has become one of my favorite drivers and he'll be driving for and my (new) home team.



#31 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,097 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:14

That's a funny way to spell Ricciardo...

Blame if on auto correct...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:drunk:  :rotfl:



#32 hittheapex

hittheapex
  • Member

  • 1,193 posts
  • Joined: July 14

Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:28

I agree with a lot of your points, but Kimi is 4th in the championship, can we stop acting like he is terrible already? 4th, in the second best car! Was Massa ever right behind Alonso during their time together? I don't think so. And let's not forget that Kimi also made some mistakes this year and also had some technical issues. So no, I wasn't saying he would all of a sudden pull off stellar performances or anything, don't get me wrong, all I'm saying is he can be good enough for Ferrari, at least in car NUMBER 2!

 

 

The fact is that Alonso beat Raikkonen by a much greater margin than he ever did with Massa and Raikkonen is hardly "right behind" Vettel on a regular basis this season except in the standings. He's had some reliability issues yes, but he is also only a few points ahead of Bottas who didn't even start in Australia. Vettel and Raikkonen are rarely in the same TV picture by the first pitstop. Raikkonen is by no means awful, I think holding onto him for 2016 was the right choice until proper replacements such as Ricciardo become free to move in 2017. Still a good driver, just not in the top 5 now. But let's not say a clearly better bet than Massa was because the evidence is ambiguous to say the least.


Edited by hittheapex, 30 September 2015 - 02:30.


#33 PassWind

PassWind
  • Member

  • 7,256 posts
  • Joined: February 05

Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:49

I suppose he is at the age to take a chance, he must have enough self belief to think he can sway persons in the management of works teams to his favour. He has made a decision that Renault is not the works team he wants that attention from. Hope he goes well, he is a nice guy and all that, I am not convinced however he is absolutely top material for a championship push, though he may also not be thinking of himself in that way and is seeking a well paying alternate driver position in a good works team, which if he is, is pretty business savvy. We all don't like to think drivers are motivated like that but its not inconceivable. 



#34 aguri

aguri
  • Member

  • 418 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 30 September 2015 - 02:49

Grosjean is taking a risk on himself. If it comes off he gets two year in a Ferrari. If it fails, he's hardly the worst driver on the grid and might get another gig.

Good on him.

 



#35 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 5,200 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 30 September 2015 - 03:13

The fact is that Alonso beat Raikkonen by a much greater margin than he ever did with Massa and Raikkonen is hardly "right behind" Vettel on a regular basis this season except in the standings. He's had some reliability issues yes, but he is also only a few points ahead of Bottas who didn't even start in Australia. Vettel and Raikkonen are rarely in the same TV picture by the first pitstop. Raikkonen is by no means awful, I think holding onto him for 2016 was the right choice until proper replacements such as Ricciardo become free to move in 2017. Still a good driver, just not in the top 5 now. But let's not say a clearly better bet than Massa was because the evidence is ambiguous to say the least.

 

Ricciardo has the same amount of podiums as Kimi this year, that tells you all you need to know.


Edited by lbennie, 30 September 2015 - 03:19.


#36 Sash1

Sash1
  • Member

  • 1,291 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 30 September 2015 - 06:33

It is a risk, but a well calculated one. He knows from last year how Renault works and that the engine is a dud. And Renault can still call off the whole deal in the next two months. He would be stuck at Lotus/Renault because that team is going nowhere with that slow unreliable lump in the back.

 

Haas is a new team. Organisation has to be build from the ground up. They need a good lead driver. One who can, race by race motivate, instruct, communicate, etc, move the team forward in performance, experience, grid positions, results. Grosjean thinks he can be the Schumacher of Haas. And he probably thinks, that if he can show how to lead a team forward, that Ferrari through the strong ties with Haas will see and hear first hand what he does.

 

The worst result? Uttter failure of the team, no contract extension, no better deals, out of the sport.

The best result? Steady improvement, getting noticed by Ferrari, Mercedes or whatever better team is out there and get a nice multi million dollar contract at a team which does pay the salaries every month.

 

Renault will be somewhere in the middle, it would be an endstation for Grosjean. He might as well end his career now. And if Renault calls the whole thing off (thanks to a possible EU investigation of money distribution or unknow debt at Lotus), he is without a drive anyway.



#37 Nonesuch

Nonesuch
  • Member

  • 15,870 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:07

An interesting move. I suspected Ferrari had an eye on him for 2016, though mostly for lack of other options, but this seems like a great opportunity to learn more about him for a potential 2017 drive.

 

Ricciardo has the same amount of podiums as Kimi this year, that tells you all you need to know.

 

That the Renault engine is more reliable than the Ferrari? :p

 



#38 Radion

Radion
  • Member

  • 2,523 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:27

but this seems like a great opportunity to learn more about him for a potential 2017 drive.

Which would not be necessary as with JA they have a guy who worked for almost to years with Gro and the guy Gro is supposed to replace.

I don't know. I feel like if Ferrari really wanted him they would have got him already as reserve to prepare for next year...

Edited by Radion, 30 September 2015 - 07:29.


#39 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 11,564 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 30 September 2015 - 07:51

I think Grosjean is shoe in for the Ferrari gig but that doesn't mean he will definitely get it.

 

He has opened a can of whoop-ass on Maldonado. 



Advertisement

#40 eREr

eREr
  • Member

  • 2,541 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:10

2016 will be a transition year for Renault (if the Lotus buy out happens). And if it is true that Gro has only a 1 year contract with Haas, then he might go back to factory Renault team for 2017 to replace Maldonado if Kimi's seat will not be his. So he will have a secure seat for 2016 and there might be several good options for 2017 for him.

 

But it is also a well known fact that he doesn't get on well with Prost, that might also pushed him towards Haas.



#41 Kalmake

Kalmake
  • Member

  • 4,492 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:43

Adam Cooper – ‏@adamcooperF1
The key for GRO is that he is now aligned to @ScuderiaFerrari, and if everything works as he hopes he's set to replace RAI in 2017

I don't think that matters at all. Ferrari  are willing to spend on drivers and can pluck him from any team if they want.



#42 Nonesuch

Nonesuch
  • Member

  • 15,870 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 30 September 2015 - 08:49

Which would not be necessary as with JA they have a guy who worked for almost to years with Gro and the guy Gro is supposed to replace.

 

Allison will have a great perspective, of course, but there's always more to learn from what one presumes will be the engine data (as was said to have happened with Pérez at Sauber).



#43 Fisico54

Fisico54
  • Member

  • 1,008 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 30 September 2015 - 09:18

I don't know how anybody can claim that Grosjean is making a mistake or an illogical move.
- it's still by no means certain that Renault will buy Lotus. If they don't then Lotus fold and all the other drives will have been filled so Grosjean is potentially out of F1 for a year.

- IF Renault take over Lotus there is no indication that it will be a short term success. Renault have shown no indication that they are prepared to throw the ££ necessary to be successful - long drawn out minimal payment buying process, lack of engine development.
Lotus results this year have largely been at engine reliant tracks using their Mercedes engines. Even IF Renault do throw ££ at the project the engine won't be the match of Mercedes and the chassis will be a rush job as I can't see that Lotus have been doing anything for 2016 given their financial position. So its very unlikely next year that Renault will be even as good as Lotus have been this year and that would leave Grosjean a year older but in the same position next year.
- Renault don't seem to have given Grosjean any guarantee that he would be signed. So he waits for the sale and decision and finds himself off the grid.

#44 Gyno

Gyno
  • Member

  • 657 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 30 September 2015 - 09:41

Could end up like Kovalainen.

 

Going from a top team to a bottom feeder, but then again maybe HAAS is the real deal and really wants to compete and become a big team in F1 and not just promote their stuff and then bug off.

 

As for Kimi, if I was the boss of Ferrari, I would have kicked him out long time ago.



#45 FullThrottleF1

FullThrottleF1
  • Member

  • 3,469 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 30 September 2015 - 11:19

'Gene' on his new F1 driver: http://sniffpetrol.c...r/#.VgvEldzF80k

 

 

Howdy race fans.

Gene Haas here, speaking to you from the United States of Hell Yeah. As y’all surely know, I’m spending every hour our dear lord sweet baby Elvis done send preparing my entry to the 2016 Formulation One world series. You better believe, we is gonna serve some home fried European lilywhite asses on a plate.

So that’s the catering taken care of, but y’all might be wonderin’ what ol’ Gene here is gonna do about drivers. Well, son, don’t you worry. This ain’t my first rodeo. I’ve been over 50,000 times and they promise to let me back in if I stop firin’ my gun at the signs. Hell, I digress.

Haas Formuliser One is a team as all American as Bud Light, baseball and fourteen pounds of possum meat in the western sector of my refrigerator. That’s why I’m proud to announce that my first driver signing is Ro-Main Growjeans from Franceland.

People say, Gene, why in God’s sweet name are you gonna let an unshaven, soft cheese communist into your righteous racing machine? Well, let me tell you, it was that or an Andretti. And ol’ Gene ain’t as dumb as the test results say.

You guys are just gonna have to trust me on this one, just as my half brother Bobby-Lee trusted me that when I said the pistol wasn’t loaded and, hell, he still got half his head don’t he?

Here at Haas Formulated One headquarters in the beautiful American state of Warwickshire, Englandland, we are now at full steam, largely thanks to a special importation of my patented burnin’ racoons in the steam machine. Smells like goddam freedom.

Let me tell you, our all-American dream machine is gonna fly thanks to its goddam spaghettihead engine and that garlic ****er at the wheel. I hope you pansy ass, tea lickin’, underpants-wearin’ European homo folks like the Star Spangled Banner cuz you’s gonna be hearing it a lot. That’s what the in-pit marching band is for.

Get ready to feel some deep fried American justice, Formulurisation One. Cuz as my daddy used to say; son, you sure put the ass in Haas.