41 replies to this topic

[Marklar]

The FIA has confirmed that there is to be a track limits clampdown as part of a raft of tweaks made to the Formula 1 regulations.

For 2016, all cars must have a separate exhaust wastegate tailpipe through which all and only wastegate exhaust gases must pass

The WMSC approved the proposal of the F1 Commission regarding regulations for power unit and gearbox changes. Such penalties prior to qualifying will be applied based on the time of use.

Any driver who causes a start to be aborted, even if he is then able to start the extra formation lap, will be required to start the race from the pit lane.

The WMSC confirmed a number of clarifications were made to aerodynamic testing restrictions for wind tunnel use and CFD, specifically focusing on reporting and inspection processes for these development tools.

For 2017, on board cameras on stalks on the nose of cars will be prohibited.

http://www.motorspor...d-noisier-cars/

Edited by Marklar, 30 September 2015 - 18:47.

[milestone 11]

What about the aero implications?

[Kalmake]

Track limits part is vague as ever: "must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason". It will still be up to Charlies interpretation.

[Jvr]

Nothing on the PU cost gap, I noticed. Wondering if it still is under planning or not since it needed to be approved also by WMSC. Also no mentioning of wind tunnel ban rather than clarifications on the limits of use.

Edited by Jvr, 30 September 2015 - 20:07.

[Otaku]

Same bull$hit as ever.

[SophieB]

Oh man, finally all the fan rage about camera stalks will go away. 

[KingTiger]

Uh oh, what is Vettel going to do with the track limit clampdown??

[AustinF1]

Uh oh, what is Vettel going to do with the track limit clampdown??

Nothing. There's no clampdown.

[Peter Perfect]

Uh oh, what is Vettel going to do with the track limit clampdown??

 

The same as every other driver on the grid, probably ignore it.

[MasterOfCoin]

 

For 2016, all cars must have a separate exhaust wastegate tailpipe through which all and only wastegate exhaust gases must pass
http://www.motorspor...d-noisier-cars/

This is only thing that's really new, the rest is just fluff by the WMSC.

[Fastcake]

Nothing on the PU cost gap, I noticed. Wondering if it still is under planning or not since it needed to be approved also by WMSC. Also no mentioning of wind tunnel ban rather than clarifications on the limits of use.

 

Indeed, that was what I spotted as well. At the moment at least we've still got £15-20million engine costs, and crucially for Red Bull, no ability to supply year-old engines to customer teams. 

[Ruusperi]

In Suzuka track limits work just fine: No one dares to go wide because there's grass/gravel outside the white line.

Now it's up to Charlie whether he thinks driver x running wide to the tarmac did it on purpose or by mistake.

[Seanspeed]

Oh man, finally all the fan rage about camera stalks will go away. 

Indeed.  Should save you mods a ton of time and effort.  

Edited by Seanspeed, 30 September 2015 - 20:31.

[ANF]

"Such penalties prior to qualifying will be applied based on the time of use."

What does that even mean?

[johnmhinds]

Oh man, finally all the fan rage about camera stalks will go away. 

 

in 2017...

 

No idea why there is a delay for things like that.

[Pontlieue]

in 2017...

 

No idea why there is a delay for things like that.

Well, there were some significant aero changes promised for 2017.

[chrcol]

why they banning the cameras?

[Marklar]

Well, there were some significant aero changes promised for 2017.

Key word is promised

Craig Scarborough ‏@ScarbsF1
@si_porter nope. Very little hope of decent aero changes for 2017, the aim was purely faster laptimes, not overtaking!

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

It's daft saying drivers may not deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason, then saying penalties will only be applied if someone has gained an advantage. That's basically just pointless fluff as it's the same as this year, namely "it's up to Charlie".

[Jvr]

"Such penalties prior to qualifying will be applied based on the time of use."What does that even mean?

Well I suppose what it says i.e. if two cars get a grid penalty before qualification e.g. by changing a gearbox, the one using the new part first causing in the penalty, will be dropped back in the grid first and if another car due to penalty would end up the same position later, it falls back behind the first car.

[Jvr]

Indeed, that was what I spotted as well. At the moment at least we've still got £15-20million engine costs, and crucially for Red Bull, no ability to supply year-old engines to customer teams.

I suppose this is both good news and bad news. The good news is that no previous year engines seem to have been approved for customer team delivery i.e. if RB gets a deal, the PU should be that of the homologated 2016 spec. The bad news is of course that the price tag can be whatever and they need to cough it up in order to participate. Since the news of the decisions made are still so thin, there is always the chance of a true killer where the previous year engine supply was approved but the price cap not...

Edited by Jvr, 30 September 2015 - 21:09.

[Fastcake]

Oh man, finally all the fan rage about camera stalks will go away. 

 

For those wondering about the camera stalks, they look like this...

 

 

 

I dunno either. Maybe a few of them fell off or something?

Edited by Fastcake, 30 September 2015 - 21:38.

[R Soul]

I'm sure there's a rule about the location of the cameras/dummy cameras, but how precise is it? Using the picture above as an example, have Mercedes put those cameras there because the rules are very precise, or just to stop them interfering with the airflow over the suspension?

 

If the cameras are only there becuase of the rules, Mercedes have had to use the stalks because the rules also say the nose has to be low, and Mercedes are trying to make their aerodynamics work.

Edited by R Soul, 30 September 2015 - 22:28.

[ANF]

Well I suppose what it says i.e. if two cars get a grid penalty before qualification e.g. by changing a gearbox, the one using the new part first causing in the penalty, will be dropped back in the grid first and if another car due to penalty would end up the same position later, it falls back behind the first car.

Ah, that makes sense.

[SenorSjon]

For those wondering about the camera stalks, they look like this...

 

 

 

I dunno either. Maybe a few of them fell off or something?

 

Wasn't it Kimi in Spa where one of the two fell off?

 

I'm sure there's a rule about the location of the cameras/dummy cameras, but how precise is it? Using the picture above as an example, have Mercedes put those cameras there because the rules are very precise, or just to stop them interfering with the airflow over the suspension?

 

If the cameras are only there becuase of the rules, Mercedes have had to use the stalks because the rules also say the nose has to be low, and Mercedes are trying to make their aerodynamics work.

 

They need to have two camera mounts on the nose. So, they found a loophole to use them as some sort of winglet. 

[Jvr]

Those who are interested in learning any decisions also concerning other motorsport series and classes regulated by FIA, should find this page interesting:

http://www.fia.com/n...uncil-decisions

However, concerning F1 there was not any decision on PU cost gap nor wind tunnel ban.

[Marklar]

Todays final update

 

Tyres

• The tyre supplier will now provide three dry-weather compounds instead of two
• Of the 13 sets of dry tyres available to each driver, the tyre supplier will choose two for the race (only one of which must be used in the race), and one set (the softest available) that may only be used in Q3. Each driver may then choose their remaining ten sets from the three available compounds
• Unless intermediate or wet-weather tyres have been used, a driver must use at least two different specifications of dry-weather tyres – at least one of these must be the one chosen by the tyre supplier.

In the event of a Virtual Safety Car (VSC), DRS will now be re-enabled immediately after the VSC period. Furthermore, the VSC may also be used in practice sessions to reduce the amount of time lost during a stoppage.

 

Power Units homologated in previous seasons may now be re-homologated. Previously no manufacturer could supply more than one specification of PU.
 

http://www.fia.com/n...cil-decisions-0

[Ross Stonefeld]

Wait, what? 

 

So hypothetically if they bring Super Soft, Medium, and Hard; you have to use the super-soft in Q3? Even if Medium and Hard are the race selections? 

 

But you can choose however many sets of each kind you want, so you could stock up on SuperSofts if you were, I dunno, obsessed with qualifying. 

 

?

[ANF]

Another WMSC meeting and still no confirmation of Pirelli for 2017? Good.

[Donka]

Wait, what? 

 

So hypothetically if they bring Super Soft, Medium, and Hard; you have to use the super-soft in Q3? Even if Medium and Hard are the race selections? 

 

But you can choose however many sets of each kind you want, so you could stock up on SuperSofts if you were, I dunno, obsessed with qualifying. 

 

?

 

No, it basically says out of the 3 sets Pirelli decides, 1 is the softest, and a team can only use it if they make Q3, but are not forced to.  

 

I imagine it's a twist on what is happening now, that Q3 teams get an extra set of options so they don't stay in the garage half the session.

Edited by Donka, 02 December 2015 - 19:46.

[ANF]

Wait, what? 
 
So hypothetically if they bring Super Soft, Medium, and Hard; you have to use the super-soft in Q3? Even if Medium and Hard are the race selections? 
 
But you can choose however many sets of each kind you want, so you could stock up on SuperSofts if you were, I dunno, obsessed with qualifying. 
 
?

Wouldn't that be an extra set of softest tyres for Q3, identical to the one they get now?

[Diablobb81]

"Of the 13 sets of dry tyres available to each driver, the tyre supplier will choose two for the race (only one of which must be used in the race), and one set (the softest available) that may only be used in Q3. Each driver may then choose their remaining ten sets from the three available compounds"

 

Can't wait for the moment when a driver gets a bad set for the race.

 

Another stupid decision, number 1943434.

Edited by Diablobb81, 02 December 2015 - 19:54.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I don't know.

 

Basically, you get a qualifying tire in Q3? That won't be used at any other time?

[Marklar]

I don't know.

 

Basically, you get a qualifying tire in Q3? That won't be used at any other time?

They are doing already the same currently......

[ANF]

I guess they would have to choose the ten sets before the start of practice (unlike in the old days when they could use Friday for evaluation before they made the decision). And I guess at least one of the compounds will be absolutely useless, so I can see teams running into trouble until they know how the compounds work. Anyway, three compounds could make the races more exciting fun decent.

Edited by ANF, 02 December 2015 - 19:58.

[Ross Stonefeld]

They are doing already the same currently......

 

No, because it's one of the existing tires. 

 

This is potentially a softer compound than you would ever race on? 

[Marklar]

Ah ok, now I got it. Ok, thats stupid....

 

Edit: just to complete all rule changes

 

The number of power unit tokens allowed for in-season development will be allocated as follows over the coming seasons:

-        2016 – 32

-        2017 – 25

-        2018 – 20

-        2019 – 15

 

Any new Power Unit manufacturer will be allocated 15 tokens in their first year, and 32 in their second.

 

The padded areas around the driver’s head have been increased in thickness for improved safety.

Edited by Marklar, 02 December 2015 - 20:07.

[pdac]

Todays final update

 

Tyres

• The tyre supplier will now provide three dry-weather compounds instead of two
• Of the 13 sets of dry tyres available to each driver, the tyre supplier will choose two for the race (only one of which must be used in the race), and one set (the softest available) that may only be used in Q3. Each driver may then choose their remaining ten sets from the three available compounds
• Unless intermediate or wet-weather tyres have been used, a driver must use at least two different specifications of dry-weather tyres – at least one of these must be the one chosen by the tyre supplier.

 

So point 2 says that the supplier will choose two sets for the race, one which must be used

Then point 3 says that a driver must use at least two different compounds, but does not specify that this refers to the race, so could include the quali tyre compound

 

This implies to me that drivers are now free to use just one compound for the race.

[peterr]

...

Any new Power Unit manufacturer will be allocated 15 tokens in their first year, and 32 in their second.

...

 

So any new potential manufacturer will get better terms (for the first year at least) than Honda. Weird. 

[KingTiger]

Unless they radically change the compounds for 2016, I assume everyone will just bring as many sets of the Softs as possible most of the time. 

[muramasa]

 　

at the beginning of this year, there was bit of controversy and argument that how unfair it is for Honda to get in-season tokens as they could "observe" other manufacturers in 2014, so they shouldnt have any tokens allowed for 2015, but now new entrants get 15 and 32 in 2nd year.

 

I mean good, it's a change for good direction, but as technology matures and generalize, I can easily imagine situations in the future, say in 2019, where some existing makers are handicapped by frozen PU while new entrants who can do anything unrestricted plus 15 tokens and 32 for 2nd year enjoy unfair advantage, all due to this token system. Why not just open up development, and homologate one PU at the start of the season with 15 in-season tokens each year much like monocoque. Cost capping can be done on technical regulation side - restrict what you can do at first, gradually easing or changing bit by bit depending on situation, both racing-wise and general technology circumstances.

[CPR]

Todays final update
 
Tyres

• The tyre supplier will now provide three dry-weather compounds instead of two
• Of the 13 sets of dry tyres available to each driver, the tyre supplier will choose two for the race (only one of which must be used in the race), and one set (the softest available) that may only be used in Q3. Each driver may then choose their remaining ten sets from the three available compounds
• Unless intermediate or wet-weather tyres have been used, a driver must use at least two different specifications of dry-weather tyres – at least one of these must be the one chosen by the tyre supplier.

Any idea if this is in addition to previous rules or replaces previous rules...?
 

If it replaces previous then a driver would have complete freedom on 10 tires for fp/quali/race - ie could use 6 of the softest tires for quali if they wanted. Also, it says nothing about tire they qualify on having to be used during the race.

 

This is how I understand it:

1. Softest + Q3 only
2. Pirelli selected + race only
3. Pirelli selected + race only
4. Any type + any time
5. Any type + any time
6. Any type + any time
7. Any type + any time
8. Any type + any time
9. Any type + any time
10. Any type + any time
11. Any type + any time
12. Any type + any time
13. Any type + any time

With additional limits that

1. Unless it's a wet race, driver must use at least one of tire-2 or tire-3 during the race
2. Unless it's a wet race, driver must use at least two different types of tires during the race (ie from tires 2-13)