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Nico Hulkenberg: Too much practice in Formula 1 grand prix weekends


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Poll: Too much practice? (107 member(s) have cast votes)

Too much practice?

  1. Yes, I agree. (23 votes [21.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.50%

  2. No, I disagree. (84 votes [78.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 78.50%

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#1 kosmos

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 13:18

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/121130

 

 

I think is good as it is, but I like the idea of having drivers less prepared if this bring more unpredictable races. What do you think?.



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#2 johnmhinds

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 13:23

Is he is willing to pay the tracks for the lost revenue from them not running on Friday then?

 

The tracks are struggling to attract fans as it is, the last thing they need is less on track time.


Edited by johnmhinds, 02 October 2015 - 13:23.


#3 Marklar

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 13:23

I agree with him: They are doing in each practice basically just 3 runs (in FP3 just two runs) and staying most of the time in the garage. Its pretty useless, but I cant see any problem. For the drivers it might be boring but some drivers are using the time in between to order some set up changes.

To add on that: Ive visit F1 in recent years just on fridays because the tickets are too expensive and you cant see anyway much in the race. I know that many people are doing that, so it might be important to have much track time for the audience on friday.

Edited by Marklar, 02 October 2015 - 13:31.


#4 SenorSjon

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 13:35

Well, open up the engine rules (one engine/weekend for Q and race). Limited tires and everything is preventing running. And what about any new driver? They are forbidden to go to the test track bar a few sessions at the start of the season. They also cannot bring a development car to the track to test new things. Grosjean for instance had to sit out FP1 a few times due to the pay/testdriver.

 

 

Hulkenberg is getting cause and effect mixed up and it is in favor of the current drivers already. 



#5 Jon83

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 13:36

As an attending fan, I'd say Friday was the most enjoyable day both times I have been. So for that alone, I'd be gutted if it was cut.

 

I'd also argue that with the ridiculous lack of testing available, Fridays are surely more important than ever?

 

Maybe teams up and down the grid should allow young drivers more time in the car on a Friday morning?

 

We always hear how drivers want to spend as much time as possible in the car. Was Nico of the same opinion in 2011, I wonder?


Edited by Jon83, 02 October 2015 - 13:38.


#6 JHSingo

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 13:37

I tend to agree - but if they cut down on practice, there would have to be a replacement. Not for the drivers' sake, but for the fans who pay not inconsiderable amounts of money to see track action. So if practice was reduced, what would they have instead? A sprint race? More support races? Something like the old M1 Procar series, where all the F1 drivers race in identical cars? Or would F1 have two day events instead of three?



#7 Nonesuch

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 13:56

Where does this obsession with randomising the races come from? F1 is about getting the 305 kilometres + the rest of the lap done as quickly as possible. Practise allows the teams to optimise their cars, strategies, and work out any problems the drivers might have. If people want to watch random races there are plenty of karting tracks with huge fields of drivers who have no clue whatsoever - but there is definitely 'a lot more emphasis and focus on the driver'.

 

Leaving aside that F1 is bad enough value for spectators as it is with the practise sessions, this desire could very well result in the opposite result and lock-in the pecking order even further. With ever decreasing time for real testing, the ongoing limiting of windtunnel and CFD-time, and the infamous engine tokens, the last thing F1 needs to spice up the competition is even more barriers to testing and development.


Edited by Nonesuch, 02 October 2015 - 13:58.


#8 foxyracer

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 14:07

I am amazed that he's saying that when there's no testing!!  Is the simulation so good now that they don't actually need to run the cars on track?  I used to like it when the cars were on track virtually all the time and on Saturday your fastest time counted for the grid.  That produced the spectacle of a driver setting a time, then someone would beat it so everyone had to respond.  The last few minutes were always the most exciting but the build up over two hour long sessions certainly added to the tension.  Sometimes the pole time would be set in the first session so all of the second session would be about someone trying to beat it.  Now, the last ten minutes is the only bit worth watching......   



#9 Kristian

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 14:19

This is what I would propose... 

 

I think FP1 should be scrapped, and a 4hr test session put there instead (09:00-13:00). Two engines and gearboxes a year will be allocated to this, separate from the race allocation. Tyres should be different compounds from those used for that race weekend (and can be experimental), and each team MUST put at least one young or third driver in their two cars. 

 

Advantages

1. More track action for the fans

2. More testing opportunities for young drivers

3. More tyre testing

4. Less pressure on engines

 

Then FP2 should be 1hr, with weekend drivers/engines/tyres. This will still give time for support races, and lessening set-up time for the weekend should help with unpredictability. 

 

FP3 etc. on Saturday to remain the same. 



#10 hamilton10000

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 14:23

Slightly off topic but whatever happened to those suggestions around the British GP that they were going to change up the weekend format? Never really heard anything about it since.



#11 uffen

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 14:25

Many fans get a chance to see F1 cars in action only once a year. And we pay a pretty penny for the privilege. Cutting back on the amount of time we'd see the drivers circulate would drop attendance even further and hurt the circuits.

Further to that I think they should require that the cars circulate, even if the weather is wet with the promise of sunny skies the next day. I went to Monaco in 2014 and sat through a wet Friday practice where only Bottas went out - for a single lap.

I felt extremely ripped off.

More running, not less.



#12 ANF

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 15:23

Yes. Less practice is part of my ideal race weekend.

 

The only changes I'd make would be:

shorten the free practice sessions to 45 mins each
split qualifying into 2 segments instead of 3
introduce 30 mins of warm-up on Sunday and allow changes to the suspension and rear wing



#13 Ruusperi

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 15:45

I wouldn't take a minute out of the track action. From fan point of view, the more the better. If I would change something, I'll have 1,5 hour FP3 and 30 minutes warm-up before the race. At the same time we could scrap parc-ferme altogether.

EDIT: Oh yes, and minimum lap count required for wet practice sessions.


Edited by Ruusperi, 02 October 2015 - 15:47.


#14 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 15:48

I think they could cut down to 2 sessions while giving the other series, especially GP2, a bit more practice time instead.  

 

I suppose one problem though is that teams already have to use practice as glorified test sessions for upgrades, so this would make life harder for the teams. 


Edited by Seanspeed, 02 October 2015 - 15:49.


#15 Fastcake

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 16:12

Practice should be kept more for the fans than anything else. Even if they don't really need the full three sessions, the people at the circuit come to see F1 cars lapping, and the less action there is the worse value for money it becomes.

 

I think they could cut down to 2 sessions while giving the other series, especially GP2, a bit more practice time instead.  

 

I suppose one problem though is that teams already have to use practice as glorified test sessions for upgrades, so this would make life harder for the teams. 

 

Isn't practice intended to be a test session? If it were just set up and learning the track, you would never have needed the three separate sessions over two days.

 

Arguably the teams could probably cope all right. With the amount of sensors and telemetry on the cars these days, I wouldn't be surprised if they got more data on the cars and the effectiveness of upgrades from a one hour session than they used to from a whole day of testing. The team's have certainly discussed cutting down practice before.



#16 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 16:17

Isn't practice intended to be a test session? If it were just set up and learning the track, you would never have needed the three separate sessions over two days.

 

Arguably the teams could probably cope all right. With the amount of sensors and telemetry on the cars these days, I wouldn't be surprised if they got more data on the cars and the effectiveness of upgrades from a one hour session than they used to from a whole day of testing. The team's have certainly discussed cutting down practice before.

By 'test session' I mean running that is meant to improve the car's fundamentals and the team's knowledge of the car and tires.  Where they run very specific programs meant to evaluate certain things that aren't necessarily relevant to the individual track they are at.  

 

Teams do get some of this info during practice sessions naturally, but most of it is prioritizing for that specific weekend and track.  But if they *need* to test something, especially upgrades, then they have to eat into normal practice routine to do it. 



#17 Spillage

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 16:45

I think don't think there's much to be gained from cutting back on practise. At Suzuka they basically had no useful practise on Friday and the race was no more unpredictable than any other. Less practise means less for the fans at the track to enjoy.

 

EDIT: Also, less practise means less chance to try out new parts and thus less chance for teams that are behind to close the gaps to the frontrunners. If anything, I'd like to see more practise, with teams being able to run a third car for a young driver on Fridays. Not sure if the costs involved would make that unfeasible, though.


Edited by Spillage, 02 October 2015 - 16:47.


#18 JHSingo

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 16:58

I wouldn't take a minute out of the track action. From fan point of view, the more the better. If I would change something, I'll have 1,5 hour FP3 and 30 minutes warm-up before the race. At the same time we could scrap parc-ferme altogether.

EDIT: Oh yes, and minimum lap count required for wet practice sessions.

 

I understand people's desire to have more track action, but I don't understand why you'd want more practice than there already is. It's not exactly riveting stuff...

Even though it goes against the history of the sport (and will therefore, most likely, never happen) I'd rather replace one of the practice sessions with a sprint race, or something along those lines.



#19 Garndell

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 17:10

I say give them 3x 1 hour sessions and make the first session only open to non race drivers (3rd, reserve & young drivers only).  It would help to give them another set each of option & prime purely for that session.  The race drivers get 2 session still but without the green track in FP1 & it would help give drivers valuable experience and the teams some good testing for development parts.



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#20 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 17:10

I agree. Remove one of the practices and instead add another two or four days of preseason or midseason test.


Edited by RYARLE, 02 October 2015 - 17:15.


#21 Afterburner

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 17:45

No, what needs to happen is they need to ban computers. Pen, paper, and a calculator for engineering work. You can time with a stopwatch. Then the bright minds and quick hands actually get to shine.

#22 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 17:52

When I go to the race, I definitely don't want to see cars on the track.  Maybe the best thing is to eliminate practice all together.  Have a 15 minute qualifying session on Sunday at 11.00,  and then the race Sunday at 13.00 (which should be cut down to 45 minutes max).  Enforce parc ferme from the start of qualifying, so there could be no changes to the car once it hits the track for the first time.  Better yet, instead of qualifying, put the cars at the exit of pit lane in reverse championship order and make them race to the start grid,  whatever grid spot you manage to stop your car in is your starting position.

 

With all of the data the teams have accumulated, and the quality of their models, they should be able to get a decent setup without the car hitting the track at all.      


Edited by Frank Tuesday, 02 October 2015 - 17:56.


#23 josepatches

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 17:54

Where does this obsession with randomising the races come from? F1 is about getting the 305 kilometres + the rest of the lap done as quickly as possible. Practise allows the teams to optimise their cars, strategies, and work out any problems the drivers might have. If people want to watch random races there are plenty of karting tracks with huge fields of drivers who have no clue whatsoever - but there is definitely 'a lot more emphasis and focus on the driver'.

Leaving aside that F1 is bad enough value for spectators as it is with the practise sessions, this desire could very well result in the opposite result and lock-in the pecking order even further. With ever decreasing time for real testing, the ongoing limiting of windtunnel and CFD-time, and the infamous engine tokens, the last thing F1 needs to spice up the competition is even more barriers to testing and development.


Agree.
And the last GP without a normal Friday it wasnt random at all so what

#24 Risil

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 17:57

I miss morning warm-up.



#25 josepatches

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 17:58

I'd say exactly the opposite. Allow the teams to made a test day with unlimited tyres instead of friday free practice.

What teams need are more test, less bans.

#26 Jon83

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 18:08

Why do people actually want to see less of the cars?

 

I don't get the argument at all. 



#27 MikeV1987

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 18:21

Nah, rookies have it tough enough as it is. Also I catch the practice sessions whenever I can, I don't want less track time.



#28 Atreiu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 18:22

I disagree.

 

Maybe the restrictions placed upon gearbox and PU usage have made the practice sessions seemingly redundant. They end up with too much time and too little to do without risking mechanical failures and all sorts of penalties.

 

 

edit:basically there is too much time for so little work possible. Another vicous side effect of unreasonable reliability regulations and other restrictions.


Edited by Atreiu, 03 October 2015 - 01:14.


#29 TheManAlive

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 19:23

What an awful idea. When I go to a race I want to see the cars on track.

 

What I would change is the parc ferme rules (no longer needed with all the other regs in place around engine use etc) and I love the idea of bringing back Sunday Warm-up. I used to love seeing that at a GP. Maybe bring in parc ferme between warm-up and race, but it would give them a chance to make changes which would then allow for trying to improve on your grid slot.

 

The current system makes no sense - qualify so they are in order of speed and then allow nothing to be done that may impact that order. At least with allowing changes to setup etc it gives a car that was not good in qual the chance to improve.



#30 Fastcake

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 19:26

I miss morning warm-up.

 

Eh that one never add anything for me. I much prefer the GP2 sprint race - it's generally entertaining at least.



#31 Marklar

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 19:34

Why do people actually want to see less of the cars?
 
I don't get the argument at all.

They would run exactly as much as before. So far they are spending the half practice session in the garage because of the PU/tyres restrictions.

For me the best solution would be to make the friday to an test session over some hours with engines, gearboxes and tyres which are not counting into the championship. Saturday morning practice can stay as well as the qualifying. On race day we need an warm up and than the race.

#32 Lights

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 19:38

To add on that: Ive visit F1 in recent years just on fridays because the tickets are too expensive and you cant see anyway much in the race. I know that many people are doing that, so it might be important to have much track time for the audience on friday.

 

Yep, same here. But on TV I hardly ever watch practices anymore and I do agree with Hulkenberg that they can do with less.



#33 Atreiu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 19:39

There a very easy quick fix, so to speak.

 

Only allow teams to use one of their race drivers on the friday sessions. The other car must necessarilly be driven by a 3rd pilot, whomever that it.



#34 Jon83

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 21:51

They would run exactly as much as before. So far they are spending the half practice session in the garage because of the PU/tyres restrictions.

For me the best solution would be to make the friday to an test session over some hours with engines, gearboxes and tyres which are not counting into the championship. Saturday morning practice can stay as well as the qualifying. On race day we need an warm up and than the race.

 

On the two occasions I have been to a GP, there has been plenty of running on a Friday morning. 

 

I'm not against your suggestion in theory, but the thought of potentially seeing less running is a no-go IMO, and that is what Nico is advocating here. 

 

You also need to factor in GP2, GP3 and Porsche SuperCup. Giving F1 whatever number of hours for testing on a Friday (say 4) may have an effect on those categories. 

 

There are many things that F1 needs to change IMO - the engines, the lack of testing, various regulations,tokens, the sound and so on but the running programme of a weekend simply isn't one of them. It is one of the few things F1 is doing relatively well.  



#35 maximilian

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 21:56

Replace practices with 3 qualifying sessions and make them all count (best 2 out of 3 aggregate position, overall fastest times as tie-breakers).  That should cure Hülkenberg's boredom.



#36 OO7

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 22:16

Randomisation!  My word things are getting desperate.  The pecking order has always been relatively fixed, based on the technical advantages/disadvantages between cars.  



#37 ANF

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 22:57

Why do people actually want to see less of the cars?
 
I don't get the argument at all.

Because there's so much time to prepare for qualifying and the race that things are too close to perfection. There are too many sensors on the cars, there's too much data that is collected, and too many engineers who are watching too many computers screens – and at the big teams there are even mission control development teams who evaluate every bit of information in the headquarters simulator. Besides, there's so much practice time available that drivers get to spend a fair amount of time in the garage. That's why I'd bring free practice down from 240 to 135 minutes: make the teams a little less prepared for qualifying, then bring back Sunday warm-up, relax the parc fermé rules a bit, and allow some last minute adjustments before the race.



#38 johnmhinds

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 23:21

Because there's so much time to prepare for qualifying and the race that things are too close to perfection. There are too many sensors on the cars, there's too much data that is collected, and too many engineers who are watching too many computers screens – and at the big teams there are even mission control development teams who evaluate every bit of information in the headquarters simulator. Besides, there's so much practice time available that drivers get to spend a fair amount of time in the garage. That's why I'd bring free practice down from 240 to 135 minutes: make the teams a little less prepared for qualifying, then bring back Sunday warm-up, relax the parc fermé rules a bit, and allow some last minute adjustments before the race.

 

Then ban/limit those things? The issues Nico Huldenberg is bringing up aren't linked to the amount of practice time, it's what they're doing during the practice time that he has issues with.

 

If the drivers want to have less practice so that they are less prepared for the race then turn Friday into a test only day where the teams are only allowed to use young/test drivers and turn FP3 into the only setup preparation session.



#39 Cloxxki

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 23:37

To give the fans some F1 cars to watch, but limit F1 driver exposure, let a short FP1 (say 30-45min) be done by non-race drivers exclusively. And why not let them drive a spare car as we had in the past? Talk of cost reduction has proven bullocks anyway.
And then what about letting each team pick 1 or 2 races to let their spare driver actually take part. For instance their home GP. Team issued wildcards. While respecting SL regs of course. Should draw more people to races if there are more home drivers taking part. A Malaysian in Malaysia, a Japanese in Japan, etc. Italy. Belgium. Hungary. So many GP's without a current home driver. It could even be a rule. Teams get to run a 3rd car twice a season, one must be a local. Let's try to give as many GPs as possible a local hero to cheer for. Not just FP1. 



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#40 josepatches

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 01:17

They would run exactly as much as before. So far they are spending the half practice session in the garage because of the PU/tyres restrictions.

For me the best solution would be to make the friday to an test session over some hours with engines, gearboxes and tyres which are not counting into the championship. Saturday morning practice can stay as well as the qualifying. On race day we need an warm up and than the race.


Thats what I said. Test day with unlimited engines, gearbox and tyres .The cars would be running all day. Good for the fans, good for the teams.

#41 wonk123

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 01:30

I want them to run on the Thursday as well.



#42 CoolBreeze

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 06:44

Rubbish! As it is there's barely any testing in F1. 



#43 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 06:54

Yes, let's punish the fans who pay an obscene amount of money to attend a gp.

With an excruciating amount of pre season testing available, practice sessions are crucial to modern day F1.

Heads gone by Hulk.

#44 Clatter

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 12:01

I think they could cut down to 2 sessions while giving the other series, especially GP2, a bit more practice time instead.

I suppose one problem though is that teams already have to use practice as glorified test sessions for upgrades, so this would make life harder for the teams.

They could, but it's still the paying customer who loses out.

#45 Abranet

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 15:36

He doesn't have to go out.....

 

Why doesn't he offer to give his FP1 slot up so the team can sell it. 


Edited by Abranet, 03 October 2015 - 15:37.


#46 BillBald

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Posted 03 October 2015 - 17:00

Being a rather cynical type of person, I found myself asking in what way it might benefit Hulk if there was less FP time?

 

The answer seems to be that FI probably bring relatively few new parts to each race, so it would hit other teams harder if they had less time to try out their upgrades.



#47 Atreiu

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 21:33

Hulk isn't alone.

 

http://plus.autospor...1323.1434668855

 

I'd rather they kept friday running but tweaked some rules to make it more interesting.

- only one of a teams race driver can driver, the other car has to be given to the test/3rd driver;

- friday sessions do not count towards engine, PU and gearbox allocations so teams do not park their cars in fear mechanical problems;

- more tyres in the friday allocation.



#48 JHSingo

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 21:48

From that article:

 


We all want to see the cars on track as much as possible, and ideally for all that running to matter to the world championship (beyond simple preparation and testing), but if nothing can be done with the format of F1 itself, for reasons of purity, practicality or otherwise, perhaps the answer is to introduce some kind of non-championship race event on the Friday to entertain the crowds and the TV audiences.

 

BMW briefly ran a Procar championship (from 1979-81) that pitted top F1 drivers against one another in identical cars on grand prix weekends. Why not revive this? There must be a manufacturer out there (that wouldn't compromise the drivers' existing corporate affiliations) that could provide and run cars in exchange for the worldwide promotion they would receive in return.

 

I'd be in favour of that. I'd fear for this forum though, in the eventuality that Will Stevens or someone like that beat Hamilton. The fall out would be spectacularly entertaining. :p

 

Joking aside, that's why I can't see such a thing going ahead, unfortunately. No doubt some of the top drivers' egos would mean they wouldn't want to take part, in case they were embarrassed by somebody who was relatively unknown.



#49 P123

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 22:37

From that article:
 
I'd be in favour of that. I'd fear for this forum though, in the eventuality that Will Stevens or someone like that beat Hamilton. The fall out would be spectacularly entertaining. :p
 
Joking aside, that's why I can't see such a thing going ahead, unfortunately. No doubt some of the top drivers' egos would mean they wouldn't want to take part, in case they were embarrassed by somebody who was relatively unknown.


It would never happen because sponsors and major teams would never allow it. The real fallout would come if any of the main players got injured participating. And the fear for Bernie would be that it would detract from the main event. I don't think any of the top guys egos would prevent them taking part- their ego tells them they're the best. Forum fanboys would take it deadly seriously, but I think the public would see it as a bit of fun.

#50 DrF

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 09:55

Maybe teams up and down the grid should allow young drivers more time in the car on a Friday morning?

We always hear how drivers want to spend as much time as possible in the car. Was Nico of the same opinion in 2011, I wonder?

Agree. Reserve drivers on Friday, race drivers on Saturday. The reserve drivers need as much experience as possible on all the tracks and race drivers don't need quite as many sessions to get their cars set up for Quali if most of the data has been collected already and in any case the weather and track conditions are often different on Friday so FP3 can be a reset.

Edited by DrF, 11 October 2015 - 10:06.