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Silverstone boss: F1 is 'sh*t product' and 'not saleable'


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#1 JHSingo

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:25

Interesting stuff that I thought deserved its own topic, but mods, please merge or whatever if needs be. :cool:

 

Following recent speculation about the future of the British Grand Prix, the boss of Silverstone, Patrick Allen, had some strong things to say today:

 

 


“Fans don’t want to see a procession,” Allen told The Independent. “As a promoter I can only promote what you give me and if that isn’t up to standard, people aren’t going to buy.” He said he had already addressed his concerns to F1’s chief Bernie Ecclestone.

 

“Months and months back I said it to Mr E himself that I can’t sell tickets for a s*** product,” Allen added on the eve of this weekend’s Russian Grand Prix. 

 

“I’ve said that people don’t come to watch guys looking at data screens. Fans want to see gladiators racing and fighting it out in a fair fight. Nobody wants to hear drivers getting told to ‘lift’, ‘coast’ or ‘we’re not going to catch the guy in front, settle for second’. 

 

“I think it is criminal when we have got to that state of racing and that is not saleable. I think Bernie is as frustrated with it as we all are. How long is it before the technical director is stood on the top step, not the driver? You’ve just got to throw the towel in then and look for something else.”

 

He's also in favour of no pit stops and no radio communication.

 

 


“I’m massively into F1 and used to race bikes. If you compare F1 to MotoGP, they are changing lead every few minutes, there are at least three or four guys that are going to do well. The Brits can do well in it. It is exciting stuff to watch. 

 

“In my opinion you should probably get flag-to-flag racing back into F1. You go out with a tank of fuel and once you’re out there you’re gone until the second flag drops. The Stirling Moss days. Do away with pit stops. Once you’re out there you’re on your own mate, and you’re not allowed to communicate at all. You go back to using your pit board.”

 

Source: http://www.independe...n-a6685391.html

 

So, thoughts? Do you think what Mr Allen suggests would make any difference to 'the show'? What would you change?


Edited by JHSingo, 08 October 2015 - 18:26.


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#2 oetzi

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:28

Sounds like he's not getting a contract at a price he's willing to pay.

#3 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:31

Agree with almost everything here, other than the removal of pitstops. I feel they really do add something - even if it's just to observe the skill of the amazing crew who service the cars!

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 08 October 2015 - 18:32.


#4 turssi

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:35

Strong words might very well be what is needed :-)

#5 Marklar

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:43

Next F1 is sh** thread, yuppie!

I've posted that this morning already in the "British GP in danger" thread though.

Regarding his suggestions: as I already wrote in a different thread F1 can change the rules like they want to, they will always get critizise anyway. We had also in the past processions and already in the past 20 years drivers were no "heroes" and "gladiators" anymore, they were also coached by their engineers - but we didnt noticed it because the team radio was never broadcasted. The problem of F1 is basically the promotion, if promotors are calling it sh** instead of trying to find realistic solutions, than you dont need to wonder. Ive also suggested the flag to flag idea in the past but will people attend to the race if they will introduce that? No. As already said many times before F1 need a few modifications and than the circuits need to reduce their ticket prices and also improve the whole support program. Everyone I know including myself who is not attending to races anymore isnt doing that anymore because the prices are way too high.

#6 ardbeg

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:47

Sounds like he's not getting a contract at a price he's willing to pay.

Or that he is not getting the product he is willing to buy.



#7 RedFury

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:53

Pretty much mainstream thought. F1 has been losing popularity world-wide for at least the past five years; its become plain boring for the average fan. And yes, Moto GP is light years ahead competition/exciment wise.



#8 BullHead

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:54

Talk about way missing the point - it's the price that's the problem. Surely?



#9 Risil

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:56

Doesn't the Australian GP promoter do this every now and again? Maybe it's just a change of tactics from Silverstone.



#10 Requiem84

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:56

F1 has more overtakes than ever. Usually quite uninteresting overtakes with DRS. But it definitely is not a procession.

MotoGP nowadays rarely has fights for the lead. Runaway and consolidate.

So, how come such a person in such a position can tell obvious incorrect facts?

#11 Claudius

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:57

Talk about way missing the point - it's the price that's the problem. Surely?


I'd say both the state of F1 and Bernies greedy business model are problematic.

#12 goingthedistance

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:58

Change is in the air.

#13 chunder27

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 18:58

Has this cretin ever watched a lot of MotoGP races?

 

They do not change lead EVERY lap and a lot of MotoGP races are just as processional at times with similar amounts of dominance. Agreed you might hvae perhaps an extra t 2 or 3 possible winners, but in the dry its Jorge or Marquez and in the wet Rossi is there too, THATS IT!

 

The only real deal ia that you get three fairly equal status races on the smae day that are often superb.

 

Price is the bane of F1, but why change when tens of thousads of sheep are prepared to pay?



#14 Risil

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:04

Trust Chunder to turn every thread into a moan about the two Spaniards currently dominating MotoGP. :D

 

(p.s. we love you don't stop)



#15 BullHead

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:05

Price is probably what is indeed on his mind, he just can't say it directly. Slagging the product is a way of negotiating the price. I guess. But wording like that isn't exactly going to attract ticket sales whatever he gets it for.



#16 CountDooku

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:07

Wasn't Silverstone fully sold out this year?

#17 BullHead

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:10

Wasn't Silverstone fully sold out this year?

 

Yeah, but if prices go up again because of Bernie's fee... I'm guessing Mr Allen is trying to get a deal to avoid that. Not sure of the tactics though...



#18 MikeV1987

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:11

hes not wrong...



#19 B3ndy

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:11

Wasn't Silverstone fully sold out this year?

 

It was, but numbers though the gates is not directly proportional to revenue. They had a large number of cheap £99 tickets up for grabs.



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#20 B3ndy

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:13

It was, but numbers though the gates is not directly proportional to revenue. They had a large number of cheap £99 tickets up for grabs.

 

I should have put 'cheap' in quotes, because thats still quite expensive compared to some places, the Hungarian GP for example. You can buy £40 access tickets a few weeks before the event, but thats a topic for another thread!



#21 robefc

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:15

I read a clarification about this today, I'll try and find it. 

 

In the meantime

 

  1. Sounds to me the "journalist" has cut and pasted an old interview together to make a bombastic article.

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    Also interesting to note how his "**** product" quote has been taken all out of context.



#22 BullHead

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:18

 

I read a clarification about this today, I'll try and find it. 

 

In the meantime

 

  1. Sounds to me the "journalist" has cut and pasted an old interview together to make a bombastic article.

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    Also interesting to note how his "**** product" quote has been taken all out of context.

 

 

Would make sense....



#23 Marklar

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:25

"Cheap" £99. LOL

#24 robefc

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:28

I can't believe I spent ages looking back through my timeline and it was a sodding autosport article!!! argh!

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/121207

 

Basically downplays the comments saying the racing has improved since they were made at the start of the season.

Also that there is no issue paying for the race for the rest of the existing contract (2026).



#25 P123

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:30

If you tell the public it's a **** product then you have no chance of selling it. :)

Leaving aside the apparent lack of validity of the article, radio comms and pitstops aren't part of the problem and fuel saving has always been present, so he's yapping at a dead end there, along with the fact that F1 has been more of a procession in the past and his view of Moto GP is a fantasy. F1 is a team sport, something it does a really bad job of selling. If they truly want drivers to be 'gladiators' and wow the public then the only way is to drastically slash the downforce and make the driver work more for a living through the corners. Unfortunately F1 has painted itself into an aero obsessed cul-de-sac, believing making the cars lap faster will bring anything meaningful to the actual racing product.

Edited by P123, 08 October 2015 - 19:31.


#26 robefc

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:32

If you tell the public it's a **** product then you have no chance of selling it. :)

Leaving aside the apparent lack of validity of the article, radio comms and pitstops aren't part of the problem and fuel saving has always been present, so he's yapping at a dead end there, along with the fact that F1 has been more of a procession in the past and his view of Moto GP is a fantasy. F1 is a team sport, something it does a really bad job of selling. If they truly want drivers to be 'gladiators' and wow the public then the only way is to drastically slash the downforce and make the driver work more for a living through the corners. Unfortunately F1 has painted itself into an aero obsessed cul-de-sac, believing making the cars lap faster will bring anything meaningful to the actual racing product.

 

Ratner!!



#27 ANF

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 19:37

So lots of people want to buy **** for £99, but less people want to pay £325 for a Sunday seat at Club Corner?



#28 CountDooku

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 20:01

"Cheap" £99. LOL


You continental types don't know what we put up with in rip-off UK. Only the Swiss and the Scandinavians would understand!

#29 maximilian

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 21:08

 

 

He's also in favour of no pit stops and no radio communication.

 

 

:up: :up: :up:  I would be totally in favor of this, too.   Let drivers drive, use pit boards like in the olden days to tell them when to BOX.  Screw "tire strategy" - it's a waste of effort, and usually amounts to nothing.  I wanna chunder every time I hear it.  Race flat out on tires that will last beyond the distance.  No reason they couldn't make tires that do that, AND are immune to punctures.  Now THAT would be relevant tire technology.


Edited by maximilian, 08 October 2015 - 21:24.


#30 chunder27

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 21:18

I didnt mention anything abotu Spaniards.

 

You did !!



#31 Myrvold

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 21:20

I didnt mention anything abotu Spaniards.

 

You did !!

Except, you did mention two Spaniards, and a single Italian - btw, fix the quote, I had to scroll and look closely up to even try to understand what you was talking about...


Edited by Myrvold, 08 October 2015 - 21:20.


#32 oetzi

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 21:28

Or that he is not getting the product he is willing to buy.

Same **** :)

#33 oetzi

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 21:32

So lots of people want to buy **** for £99, but less people want to pay £325 for a Sunday seat at Club Corner?

Get an upgrade on race day then. Much cheaper (oh, sorry, forgot, it's sold out!) :)

#34 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 11:47

I love how only drivers ever get in trouble for Bringing The Sport Into Disrepute
 

Wasn't Silverstone fully sold out this year?


I wonder how many tickets were sold. I saw some noticeably empty sections during the race itself...

If you have 150k capacity and only make 100k seats available yeah you can sell out :D
 



#35 Jon83

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 12:00

Radio communication is surely nowhere near as big a problem as this guy makes out?

 

It isn't going to stop people attending races and can often be quite an interesting insight. I'd like more of it, especially considering how boring things are just now.



#36 CountDooku

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 12:54

I love how only drivers ever get in trouble for Bringing The Sport Into Disrepute


I wonder how many tickets were sold. I saw some noticeably empty sections during the race itself...

If you have 150k capacity and only make 100k seats available yeah you can sell out :D


Are you wearing JJ's Faraday cage hat for today?

#37 Paco

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 13:09

Of course he's right. Zero action cause you can't push your car anymore cause parts need to last soooo many gps. Lack of refuel meanings you have to be heavy cars on crap tires. Then add to the mix of the stewards handing out penalties for ever wee mistake or misstep, drivers are scared to do anything, then also, points so far down the grid, zero motivation to get into top6.. What's the point, for just a single point between 9 and tenth. Too many points, too many penalties, too conservative on reliability ie long life concept of components and ridiculous Tilke tracks. All in all, next to impossible to fix without a major rethink of of the basic working of today's approach, he is bang on with his assessment which I've shared for the better part of 10years. Endurance racing isn't f1... Dumb working group got it wrong years ago..

#38 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 13:16

Of course he's right. Zero action cause you can't push your car anymore cause parts need to last soooo many gps. Lack of refuel meanings you have to be heavy cars on crap tires. Then add to the mix of the stewards handing out penalties for ever wee mistake or misstep, drivers are scared to do anything, then also, points so far down the grid, zero motivation to get into top6.. What's the point, for just a single point between 9 and tenth. Too many points, too many penalties, too conservative on reliability ie long life concept of components and ridiculous Tilke tracks. All in all, next to impossible to fix without a major rethink of of the basic working of today's approach, he is bang on with his assessment which I've shared for the better part of 10years. Endurance racing isn't f1... Dumb working group got it wrong years ago..

 

Agree with everything except the bolded part. The malaise is not track specific.



#39 Fatgadget

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 13:38

Is there really a future in race circuits that take up acres of prime real estate in the developing world and hardly make a profit hosting motor races hardly no one goes to watch? Sadly I think not. Its only a matter of time before the likes of Silverstone is razed to the ground and a Lidls or Aldis and a housing estate sprouts in its place....

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#40 Kristian

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 13:46

I agree with him. I went to Spa this year, and despite the great weather and good atmosphere amongst the fans, the F1 parts of the weekend were crap. The noise was nothing like I've been used to in the past when going to races (no matter how boring, just hearing the engines stirred the soul - I really thought it wouldn't be too bad, but it was), and just looking at the santitised corners with the cars being dwarfed by acres of asphalt also disappointed me. Add in the complexities of the sport now, requiring quite detailed commentary to follow that you don't get at the track, then the experience there just wasn't worth the money of travel and tickets over being sat in my own living room. I never ever thought I'd say that about F1, but for the prices Silverstone need to charge, I just cannot justify buying next year (which I originally planned to). 



#41 johnmhinds

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 14:35

Is there really a future in race circuits that take up acres of prime real estate in the developing world and hardly make a profit hosting motor races hardly no one goes to watch? Sadly I think not. Its only a matter of time before the likes of Silverstone is razed to the ground and a Lidls or Aldis and a housing estate sprouts in its place....

 

Luckily Silverstone has other big races throughout the year so that will never happen.

 

It's the circuits that have no other big events that get killed off faster, see Turkey, Valencia, Korea, India, etc... Over the last 15-20 years we've lost more new tracks from the calendar than old ones.


Edited by johnmhinds, 09 October 2015 - 14:36.


#42 Atreiu

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 14:49

MotoGP is leaps and bounds beter than F1 without or without several lead chances. Not to mention Moto2 and Moto3.

 

Aragon had none and we probably saw more racing on that weekend than F1 has had all year long.



#43 Kristian

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 14:50

Luckily Silverstone has other big races throughout the year so that will never happen.

 

It's the circuits that have no other big events that get killed off faster, see Turkey, Valencia, Korea, India, etc... Over the last 15-20 years we've lost more new tracks from the calendar than old ones.

 

I just looked up Turkey, Korea and India and their combined cost to build was $578,000,000 (roughly £385m). 

 

At $44m per race overall for those three circuits, just for construction costs alone (heaven knows how much was spent on contracts / breaking contracts), the money is crazy. 



#44 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 14:51

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#45 fosters35

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 15:05

I only watched the start of qualy 1 this morning as was in bed anyway and eneded up turning over.

 

On paper the track sounds good where its set, but in reality all the viewer got was a delayed and shortened session with virtually no spectators and a depressing backdrop.

I really do miss the older tracks with greenery/scenery and elevation :(



#46 JHSingo

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:09

Is there really a future in race circuits that take up acres of prime real estate in the developing world and hardly make a profit hosting motor races hardly no one goes to watch? Sadly I think not. Its only a matter of time before the likes of Silverstone is razed to the ground and a Lidls or Aldis and a housing estate sprouts in its place....

 

That'll never happen. For a start, the local economy relies on Silverstone. There's lots of B&Bs and restaurants that would probably go out of business if it weren't for the trade they got from Silverstone. I was there for the Grand Prix in 2009 (when there was all that talk about it being the last F1 race there, before it moved to Donington) and a lot of small business owners I talked to were very concerned about it.

I can't envisage a place like Silverstone being closed and demolished for the sake of a supermarket. :lol:

 

I never ever thought I'd say that about F1, but for the prices Silverstone need to charge, I just cannot justify buying next year (which I originally planned to). 

 

Agreed. Particularly when there are many far cheaper alternatives that offer far better value for money. WEC, BTCC, or even MotoGP for instance.

I doubt even if Silverstone got a new deal tomorrow at a price it was happy at, that Patrick Allen would suddenly declare everything fine with F1. I think there's more to his comments than just wanting to send Bernie a message before they thrash out a new deal. F1 isn't a great product right now, which I guess is why there has been discussions about altering the weekend schedule. Promoters around the world are probably saying similar things, but perhaps in not such a blunt manner. :lol:



#47 KatiePI

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:29

You continental types don't know what we put up with in rip-off UK. Only the Swiss and the Scandinavians would understand!

This is not expense when compare with other premium sport events.



#48 Fatgadget

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:38

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This shirley should be in the photoshop thread.

#49 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 22:14

It is a s*** product. Crappy cars, few teams, crappy tracks around industrial estates and flat wastelands, boring drivers (the kids have zero charisma), and domination by the most grey and corporate team on the grid.

the support races are way better than the F1. Seriously.

#50 Jimisgod

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 22:23

Ugly cars with poor engines that can't be developed because of regulations that guarantee enforced domination by one engine, and can't overtake without DRS, and race almost exclusively on grey car-park like tracks in wealthy oil states that can't attract a crowd.

 

Can't imagine why people don't want to attend... :stoned: