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Lauda ranks today's "top" drivers


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#1 jjcale

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 17:49

http://edition.cnn.c...eref=rss_latest

 

Its not as predictable you would expect. OK - He says LH is clear number 1 and is "driving like a god" ... but that's been his line for most of 2015 and we all know it suits him to say that - for more than one reason.

 

Then Vettel he puts at clear second .... OK... but equally predictable.

 

Then it gets interesting ....He ranks FA and NR as being on the same level .... two very quick and experienced guys.

 

Then it gets even more fun .... he ranks DR and DK on the same level.

 

Overall he says there is only about 2 tenths in it between the "top" guys.

 

So no room at the top for JB, KR, NH or VB

 

 

Personally, my list goes FA, LH, DR, SV, NH with DK and MV being wildcards .....but there is probably no one alive more qualified than Lauda to give an opinion on this topic so I have to listen with some respect.... and assume that he is being completely honest. 


Edited by jjcale, 09 October 2015 - 17:50.


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#2 superden

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 17:52

Opinions are like assh*les ...

... everyone's got one.

#3 DS27

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 17:52

Probably the only guy who is going to rate Nico alongside Alonso.



#4 Risil

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 17:53

I reckon Lauda's trying to goad Alonso into signing for Mercedes to prove he's better than Rosberg.



#5 OO7

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 17:54

Opinions are like assh*les ...

... everyone's got one.

Not everyone: https://en.wikipedia...mperforate_anus



#6 TheRacingElf

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:01

Nothing good is going to come out of this, we all going to disagree with him and having arguments with each other about how that list actually should look like :drunk:


Edited by TheRacingElf, 09 October 2015 - 18:02.


#7 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:05

.....but there is probably no one alive more qualified than Lauda to give an opinion on this topic so I have to listen with some respect....


And then he cimbed into the Jaguar F1 car...

#8 JHSingo

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:12

Alonso and Rosberg on the same level? That's hilarious. :lol:



#9 KatiePI

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:14

Not the rank I expecting but I imagine like most people this change lot.

I know mine always changing.



#10 P123

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:16

Overall he says there is only about 2 tenths in it between the "top" guys.


I'd agree with that. And I think he's trying to be kind to Nico! :)

#11 Marklar

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:26

If he would have put Rosberg below Alonso than I would have been fine with that. Stil I wouldnt agree but at least his opinion would have been not hilarious. I mean Rosberg on the same level like Alonso, but we knew that he is not on Hamiltons level who is "driving like God"? Lol. Thats ridicolous. For me Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton are outstanding, for me they are even All time greats, the order depends from each persons perspective (for me: ALO - HAM - VET), but no one of them is outstanding alone (which he is implying with "driving like Good" for Hamiltin) and Nico is also not in this tier - for me at least.

Edited by Marklar, 09 October 2015 - 18:28.


#12 motorhead

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:06

What else would he say, he would probably say it for any leading driver of the team he part of.



#13 noikeee

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:19

He's a Mercedes guy. Of course Rosberg's going to be high on his estimation.

#14 robefc

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:21

http://edition.cnn.c...eref=rss_latest

 

Its not as predictable you would expect. OK - He says LH is clear number 1 and is "driving like a god" ... but that's been his line for most of 2015 and we all know it suits him to say that - for more than one reason.

 

Then Vettel he puts at clear second .... OK... but equally predictable.

 

Then it gets interesting ....He ranks FA and NR as being on the same level .... two very quick and experienced guys.

 

Then it gets even more fun .... he ranks DR and DK on the same level.

 

Overall he says there is only about 2 tenths in it between the "top" guys.

 

So no room at the top for JB, KR, NH or VB

 

 

Personally, my list goes FA, LH, DR, SV, NH with DK and MV being wildcards .....but there is probably no one alive more qualified than Lauda to give an opinion on this topic so I have to listen with some respect.... and assume that he is being completely honest. 

 

DR above SV, seriously?



#15 Spillage

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:22

What surprises me is that he put Rosberg behind Vettel. Unless he's trying some reverse psychology, that can't be good for Nico's apparently already strained confidence.

 

EDIT: I'm not saying Rosberg is better than Vettel; I don't think that he is. I'm just surprised Lauda would say so.


Edited by Spillage, 09 October 2015 - 19:23.


#16 Jordan44

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:22

I reckon Lauda's trying to goad Alonso into signing for Mercedes to prove he's better than Rosberg.

 

Why would Lauda want him at Mercedes? They expect to be at the front for some years to come and Lewis is the man they have faith in to do the job. Nico makes a very reliable driver to finish behind Lewis. Bringing Alonso to the team at this stage would only unsettle them.

 

But more importantly, do you really think Lauda needs to goad Alonso to Mercedes? If he got offered the seat now he would take it with no hesitation. Don't tell me you seriously think he would choose that McLaren seat over the Merc seat if it was on the cards?


Edited by Jordan44, 09 October 2015 - 19:24.


#17 Quickshifter

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:23

Alonso's drive in Suzkua and his qualifying lap should at least make people who know a little bit of f1 let alone a multi world champion that you don't need to be in a top car to show your mettle.



#18 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:31

To be fair, NR did have Schumacher's number for the 3 years they were together. We can only say for sure that he is a notch below (maybe more) Hamilton as of today, where he compares with Vettel or Alonso is anybody's guess.



#19 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:33

DR above SV, seriously?

 

We do have a head to head battle between the two where SV was shown a clean pair of heels. Given that most of our speculation comes from head to head battles, it is fairly reasonable to entertain this opinion.



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#20 Jordan44

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:34

To be fair, NR did have Schumacher's number for the 3 years they were together. We can only say for sure that he is a notch below (maybe more) Hamilton as of today, where he compares with Vettel or Alonso is anybody's guess.

 

That wasn't the same Schumacher by some margin. He had no Pirelli tyre experience and had been absent from the sport for a number of years. I don't see it as a great achievement by Nico to be honest.



#21 np93

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:34

The only driver that can be put up there with Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton is Ricciardo. Rosberg this year has been like Webber in 2011, completely demoralised and unable to fight against a team mate riding the high of the title in a car completely suited to him.



#22 Marklar

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:35

What surprises me is that he put Rosberg behind Vettel. Unless he's trying some reverse psychology, that can't be good for Nico's apparently already strained confidence.
 
EDIT: I'm not saying Rosberg is better than Vettel; I don't think that he is. I'm just surprised Lauda would say so.

Thats exactly what surprised me as well. I would have expected that he will put his drivers on the first two places and if he would be sensitive in not an particular order.

#23 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:37

That wasn't the same Schumacher by some margin. He had no Pirelli tyre experience and had been absent from the sport for a number of years. I don't see it as a great achievement by Nico to be honest.

 

He was absent for 3 years and 2010 had Bridgestones, if I remember. So both started on Pirellis at the same time in 2011.

 

KR by comparison was absent for 2 years and everyone expects him to be on the ball.

 

The only argument you can make against Schumacher is his age but a celebrated driver who pretty much holds every record in F1 is not going to be a pushover by any stretch, even at that age.


Edited by RubalSher, 09 October 2015 - 19:37.


#24 Jordan44

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:38

The only driver that can be put up there with Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton is Ricciardo. Rosberg this year has been like Webber in 2011, completely demoralised and unable to fight against a team mate riding the high of the title in a car completely suited to him.

 

Vettel wasn't far off Webber in 2011 last year either but he's somehow up there    ;)

 

You can't use one season as a decider for whether or not they deserve to be in the top tier of drivers.


Edited by Jordan44, 09 October 2015 - 19:43.


#25 Marklar

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:39

To be fair, NR did have Schumacher's number for the 3 years they were together. We can only say for sure that he is a notch below (maybe more) Hamilton as of today, where he compares with Vettel or Alonso is anybody's guess.

Schumacher way passed his prime after an long retirement was 2012 already the better driver compare to Rosberg. In 2011 they were on par. He just had much more bad luck. Hmmm...

Edited by Marklar, 09 October 2015 - 19:40.


#26 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:42

Schumacher way passed his prime after an long retirement was 2012 already the better driver compare to Rosberg. In 2011 they were on par. He just had much more bad luck. Hmmm...

 

Let us not go cherry picking on luck, but even if I did, only goes to show that Schumacher in 2012 was no pushover and that Nico got the better of him when Schumacher would have been sharper in 2010 and 2011. Ergo, credit goes to Nico.



#27 robefc

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:45

We do have a head to head battle between the two where SV was shown a clean pair of heels. Given that most of our speculation comes from head to head battles, it is fairly reasonable to entertain this opinion.

 

Perhaps if you watched that season and missed 2008-13 and this year.

 

I don't think any TP would take DR over Vettel if they were offered both.


Edited by robefc, 09 October 2015 - 19:46.


#28 Riverside

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:45

Lauda ... yawn.   Lewis (like a God)  clear number 1?   -  with Vettel  (2) in inferior equipment,  Alonso (who has a GP2 engine) on par with Nico.. 

 

 I think Mr.Lauda missed a good turn to be quiet.  



#29 Jordan44

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:46

Let us not go cherry picking on luck, but even if I did, only goes to show that Schumacher in 2012 was no pushover and that Nico got the better of him when Schumacher would have been sharper in 2010 and 2011. Ergo, credit goes to Nico.

 

I don't agree Schumacher would have been sharper in 2010 and 2011 at all. It took Lewis a while to get used to the Pirelli tyres... nevermind Schumacher who was absent from the sport. Schumacher started becoming more competitive in 2012 after experience with this new era.


Edited by Jordan44, 09 October 2015 - 19:48.


#30 Marklar

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:48

Lauda ... yawn.   Lewis (like a God)  clear number 1?   -  with Vettel  (2) in inferior equipment,  Alonso (who has a GP2 engine) on par with Nico.. 
 
 I think Mr.Lauda missed a good turn to be quiet.

He grabed a great opportunity to be funny :lol:

#31 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:48

I don't agree Schumacher would have been sharper in 2010 and 2011 at all. It took Lewis a while to get used to the Pirelli tyres... nevermind Schumacher who was absent from the sport.

 

As I said, the Pirellis were introduced in 2011 and both drivers had the same opportunity and had been in the team for a year.



#32 Dan333SP

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:50

The only driver that can be put up there with Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton is Ricciardo. Rosberg this year has been like Webber in 2011, completely demoralised and unable to fight against a team mate riding the high of the title in a car completely suited to him.

 

This. We all know where this thread is going, but with today's grid I don't think anyone could reasonably separate Alonso, Vettel, Lewis, and Ricciardo from one another. In the same car, I'd wager they would all be about 2 tenths apart, with any one of the 4 ahead at any given track depending on the day. Not sure how Lauda can put DK on DR's level. Yes, he's done better than many people expected this year, but I think DR's pace advantage has by and large been pretty clear, especially of late.



#33 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:55

Perhaps if you watched that season and missed 2008-13 and this year.

 

I don't think any TP would take DR over Vettel if they were offered both.

 

I do agree that Vettel and his 4 titles do count and that he definitely has been in good nick this year. I did watch last year and I am not sure what you are hinting at. Lastly, I do think that DR earned a lot of respect with his performances last year against Vettel and I wont speculate on behalf of TPs and who they will choose. The rest of us (at least some) are entitled to believe that DR may be a better driver than SV and we will only know for sure if they go head to head again.



#34 Jordan44

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:55

As I said, the Pirellis were introduced in 2011 and both drivers had the same opportunity and had been in the team for a year.

 

Let me rephrase what I meant. Schumi not only had to get back up to speed with the newer cars, he also had to learn the Pirelli tyres on top of that during the 2011 season. I don't believe the 2010 season to be enough to completely adapt. He had far more to learn in a short period of time than Nico did.

 

Your argument isn't making too much sense. Schumacher was clearly past his prime yet you describe him as 'no pushover'. To me that suggests Nico could have been soundly beaten by a Schumacher at the peak of his career. Nico didn't beat him by a huge margin when you consider his bad reliability.


Edited by Jordan44, 09 October 2015 - 20:01.


#35 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:02

Let me rephrase what I meant. Schumi not only had to get back up to speed with the newer cars, he also had to learn the Pirelli tyres on top of that during the 2011 season. I don't believe the 2010 season to be enough to completely adapt .

 

Your argument isn't making too much sense. Schumacher was clearly past his prime yet you describe him as 'no pushover'. To me that suggests Nico could have been soundly beaten by a Schumacher at the peak of his career.

 

With the stats he earned, it will be a brave man who would proclaim that MS in his prime could have been beaten by any driver on the grid at the time.

 

Coming to your first argument, no top driver needs years to tune himself in to the sport. I dont believe that MS was severely hindered by his age given that he was physically fit. The reason I am more convinced is based on how Nico is performing against Lewis. He is running Lewis close in every race, especially last year and he mostly goes uncredited for that around here.

 

P.S. I am obviously a Lewis fan but after Spa or Monza last year, I even made a statement that if Nico wins the title, I would become a huge fan.



#36 apoka

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:02

Adjusted by preference for own drivers (he is always going to be more positive there, especially since he sees Hamilton as his signing) it is more like Hamilton/Vettel, followed by Alonso, followed by Ricciardo/Rosberg/Kvyat. However, I think he gave a youth bonus to Kvyat in that ranking. Generally, his opinion is not that stable (not sure whether it should be - we / forum users change our own opinion frequently as well).



#37 noriaki

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:18

Ranking F1 drivers based on their Bestness-attribute is always going to work well and cause sensible arguments amidst the fanbases



#38 Marklar

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:21

P.S. I am obviously a Lewis fan but after Spa or Monza last year, I even made a statement that if Nico wins the title, I would become a huge fan.

:confused:

#39 Jordan44

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:27

With the stats he earned, it will be a brave man who would proclaim that MS in his prime could have been beaten by any driver on the grid at the time.

 

Coming to your first argument, no top driver needs years to tune himself in to the sport. I dont believe that MS was severely hindered by his age given that he was physically fit. The reason I am more convinced is based on how Nico is performing against Lewis. He is running Lewis close in every race, especially last year and he mostly goes uncredited for that around here.

 

P.S. I am obviously a Lewis fan but after Spa or Monza last year, I even made a statement that if Nico wins the title, I would become a huge fan.

 

Nothing to do with physical fitness. As you get older you loose the ability to think as quickly, loose some of the knowledge you had about the sport and how to extract the most out of the car, and your reaction times increase. There's no way Schumacher knew more about extracting the maximum out of the car than Nico after missing three years from motorsport other than a tiny bit of testing.

 

And how is the last sentence relevant?


Edited by Jordan44, 09 October 2015 - 20:27.


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#40 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:28

:confused:

 

Any driver who beats Lewis to the title in the same car, I will become a fan. He would have earned it.


Edited by RubalSher, 09 October 2015 - 20:28.


#41 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:29

I don't think Schumacher lost any mental ability, though he may have 'switched off' too much in retirement. And reflexes are not how you drive a race car. He was definitely behind the ball though. But not by much.

#42 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:32

Nothing to do with physical fitness. As you get older you loose the ability to think as quickly, loose some of the knowledge you had about the sport and how to extract the most out of the car, and your reaction times increase. There's no way Schumacher knew more about extracting the maximum out of the car than Nico after missing three years from motorsport other than a tiny bit of testing.

 

And how is the last sentence relevant?

 

Letz agree to disagree. The testing is also the same for everyone. I do agree that age is a factor and I myself brought up the point in this thread, but then to use this single factor to discredit Nico's years against MS is stretching it.

 

Nico is in my top 5 that include HAM, VET, ALO, ROS & RIC. Order them how you like. All I am saying is that I wont be surprised if he beat the other 3 in the list (apart from HAM) when he goes head to head against them.



#43 Jordan44

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:35

I don't think Schumacher lost any mental ability, though he may have 'switched off' too much in retirement. And reflexes are not how you drive a race car. He was definitely behind the ball though. But not by much.

 

The speed in which you process information and make decisions is surely massively influential in the cockpit of a racing car.


Edited by Jordan44, 09 October 2015 - 20:35.


#44 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:39

Michael Schumacher wasn't 60, he only missed 3 seasons. I think he missed things during those years but would have had the same problems regardless of age. He just had too much catching up to do.

#45 robefc

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:41

Any driver who beats Lewis to the title in the same car, I will become a fan. He would have earned it.

 

No offence but isn't that the definition of being a glory supporter?!



#46 robefc

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:43

I do agree that Vettel and his 4 titles do count and that he definitely has been in good nick this year. I did watch last year and I am not sure what you are hinting at. Lastly, I do think that DR earned a lot of respect with his performances last year against Vettel and I wont speculate on behalf of TPs and who they will choose. The rest of us (at least some) are entitled to believe that DR may be a better driver than SV and we will only know for sure if they go head to head again.

 

My point was I think only somebody who had only watched the season where DR beat SV would consider him to be better than SV.

 

Although I am clearly wrong as both you and jjcale did! :)

 

I can accept the possibility that he is better but I think the weight of evidence is heavily in SV's favour.

 

By contrast I think it is difficult to say that Lewis is better than SV or vice versa.



#47 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:48

No offence but isn't that the definition of being a glory supporter?!

 

Call it what you like but I do believe LH is the best out there, as of today. If someone beats him to the title in the same car, then I believe he deserves my respect and my adoration.

 

A glory supporter would probably be someone who supported Vettel from 2010-13 and then supports Lewis now and I am not one of those.



#48 RubalSher

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 20:53

My point was I think only somebody who had only watched the season where DR beat SV would consider him to be better than SV.

 

Although I am clearly wrong as both you and jjcale did! :)

 

I can accept the possibility that he is better but I think the weight of evidence is heavily in SV's favour.

 

By contrast I think it is difficult to say that Lewis is better than SV or vice versa.

 

Lewis vs SV is obviously a pandora's box, so I am not going there... just stating that in my opinion Lewis is better.

 

SV vs DR, I was much more convinced at the end of last year that DR is better, but having seen SV's performances this year, I will be the first to admit, it is a tight rope walk. With each passing race, to be honest, my opinion of SV is actually climbing quite a bit but I can still understand some who believe DR is better than SV.



#49 Knowlesy

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 21:09

He can't just throw Nico under the bus. He has to work with him for a few years yet!

#50 Dan333SP

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 21:16

My point was I think only somebody who had only watched the season where DR beat SV would consider him to be better than SV.

 

Although I am clearly wrong as both you and jjcale did! :)

 

I can accept the possibility that he is better but I think the weight of evidence is heavily in SV's favour.

 

By contrast I think it is difficult to say that Lewis is better than SV or vice versa.

 

Right, historically SV is clearly an all-time great talent, and this season in the Ferrari has really quashed a lot of the naysayers against him, me included to some extent.

I still think DR's performance against him last year was really something special though. If they end up as teammates again at Ferrari in the next few years, I wouldn't be surprised at all if DR is neck and neck or beats him again. I think, based purely on talent, DR is right there with the 3 multiple champions on the grid, but he only has 3 race wins to show for it. If he gets a year or two in a frontrunning car, I think we can then realistically assess him.