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Why the FIA has not learned their lessons...


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#1 Marklar

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 07:37

One year ago Jules Bianchi suffered his life ending injuries during the Japanese GP. Besides the crane beeing on the track many drivers suggested that the visibilty might have been an big issue as well. The FIA reacted and changed some (late) starting times for this season....

...now this happened yesterday at the GP3 practice

CQ5t1HHWwAAFyl5.jpg
CQ6BOP8XAAAgRJX.jpg
CQ5C62zWcAAu2bd.jpg
CQ4tK6DWgAATEfT.jpg
CQ4g4hnWwAQRID8.png

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The sun is due to set 3 minutes after the end of GP3 practice. It's basically night already. Ludicrously dark to be running.

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Session will restart with 7 minutes left. On board cameras give true scale of vision. Ridiculous to carry on. Especially in these conditions

And not only that: AMuS reported last week that at the Japanese GP two weeks ago during a support race the crane was for a long time out on track without neutralizing the race.

It is nice that the FIA tried to improve the safety in F1 in the aftermath of the Bianchi incident, but they should not forget that the guys in the support series have also the right to run under relatively safe conditions...

Edited by Marklar, 10 October 2015 - 07:49.


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#2 sportyskells

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 08:13

these guys will be racing 1st today (keep that in mind please) . where could the GP3 practise go if it was too dark like yesterday ?



#3 Marklar

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 08:20

these guys will be racing 1st today (keep that in mind please) . where could the GP3 practise go if it was too dark like yesterday ?

For example yesterday before the FP1.

#4 Nonesuch

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 08:47

It's easy to make these scenes look dark by bumping down the exposure. The human eye is a far better tool for viewing the world than any camera.

 

Some of the messages were posted in the 17:45-18:00 local time range.

 

The GP3 website marks this photo as follows, which leads me to believe the second number is the local time in the AM/PM system:

 

09 Oct 2015, 05.59

 

4np2i7B.jpg

 

09 Oct 2015, 06.05 (note how this is apparently later than the above photo).

 

B1li5K6.jpg



#5 Marklar

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 08:57

Than why are people who were there are also saying that it was too dark? The differences between the pics you posted now might come from beeing on different parts of the circuits. Yesterday in FP2 the half circuit was completely wet, the other half dry. Both pics you posted were posted after the practice by the way, so the order is probably random. I guess that the 1st pic is from the end of the practice and thr 2nd from the start or restart.

#6 Nonesuch

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 09:03

It could indeed be the date at which the photo was posted to the website. :up:

 

If the drivers continued to go out I'll trust their judgement over those of the track-side reporters who are prone to dramatise the situation.



#7 Gareth

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 09:47

The time must be when the pic was posted, not when taken.  Regardless of exposure levels on the shot: the street style lighting is on in the first picture, and not in the second.

 

As to the drivers' judgement: GP3 guys are trying to climb up a very slippery pole and aren't very far up it.  Would you want to be the first one to raise your hand and say "conditions aren't safe, I'm not driving in this"?



#8 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 11:40

I thought TV cameras were notorious for making it look lighter than it was, ie in endurance racing?

#9 Pimpwerx

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 11:50

Cars ran with cranes on track just fine prior to Bianchi. It's not a big issue IMO. I'm not sure went we ignore the contributions of the driver to that tragedy. Perhaps they just asked drivers to exercise extra caution since no one wins a trophy for practice. PEACE.

Edited by Pimpwerx, 10 October 2015 - 11:50.


#10 pdac

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 11:56

Cars ran with cranes on track just fine prior to Bianchi. It's not a big issue IMO. I'm not sure went we ignore the contributions of the driver to that tragedy. Perhaps they just asked drivers to exercise extra caution since no one wins a trophy for practice. PEACE.

 

 

Sorry to be off topic, but it's exactly this sort of attitute that resulted in the Bianchi accident. They didn't run just fine - they were just lucky in the past.



#11 Pimpwerx

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:02

Sorry to be off topic, but it's exactly this sort of attitute that resulted in the Bianchi accident. They didn't run just fine - they were just lucky in the past.

It's not luck. Do you think it's lucky that you don't go flying off the road whenever it rains? No, because you slow down to an appropriate speed. Bianchi didn't, lost control, and (let's not forget this important fact), almost killed a bunch of volunteers. No one likes death in our sport, but the whitewashing of that incident bothers me. Yes, he died, but his haste almost claimed the lives of those track workers. He went off at a speed that suggests caution was not properly heeded. Those yellows are there to protect the workers as much as the drivers. PEACE.

#12 chunder27

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:24

Poor taste all round this thread

 

The sport is dangerous, get over it for goodness sake.

 

Half the reason it struggling for popularity among its fans now is becasue it has been dumbed down to such an extent by manufacturers and track designers. 



#13 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:37

You can get rid of the Dumb Risk without dumbing down the sport, however.

#14 chunder27

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:45

You can I agree, but where would you rather race?

 

Cadwell or Sochi?

 

Nurburgring or Sochi?



#15 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 12:51

Depends what I'm driving but generally yeah Sochi is safer. But don't then be complacent and do stupid **** like run GP3(especially GP3 drivers) in those conditions.

Don't put cranes on the outside of high speed corners with cars still going fast. Especially in the wet. Especially at Japan where the last time you had a similar situation a second car went off and someone got injured.

You know, basic ****. Combination of learning from past experiences and anticipating new ones.

#16 Paco

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 16:12

One year ago Jules Bianchi suffered his life ending injuries during the Japanese GP. Besides the crane beeing on the track many drivers suggested that the visibilty might have been an big issue as well. The FIA reacted and changed some (late) starting times for this season....

...now this happened yesterday at the GP3 practice

CQ5t1HHWwAAFyl5.jpg
CQ6BOP8XAAAgRJX.jpg
CQ5C62zWcAAu2bd.jpg
CQ4tK6DWgAATEfT.jpg
CQ4g4hnWwAQRID8.png

The Buxton Blog ‏@thebuxtonblog
The sun is due to set 3 minutes after the end of GP3 practice. It's basically night already. Ludicrously dark to be running.

The Buxton Blog ‏@thebuxtonblog
Session will restart with 7 minutes left. On board cameras give true scale of vision. Ridiculous to carry on. Especially in these conditions

And not only that: AMuS reported last week that at the Japanese GP two weeks ago during a support race the crane was for a long time out on track without neutralizing the race.

It is nice that the FIA tried to improve the safety in F1 in the aftermath of the Bianchi incident, but they should not forget that the guys in the support series have also the right to run under relatively safe conditions...


Holy crap! What I the world... Utter shock. Sure pictures can be misleading and a 100% representation but nothing can justify that..

#17 Atreiu

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 16:45

How long ago was GP3 at Monza and they had to red flag the races?

How can they ever trust those drivers on a wet track at dark with limited run off at some sections?

 

Night racing and its dangers are fine, for rallying and endurance and etc. Not GP3.

 

It has nothing to do with dumbing a sport.


Edited by Atreiu, 10 October 2015 - 16:49.


#18 Myrvold

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 22:10

The pictures looks great though...



#19 pdac

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 23:08

It's not luck. Do you think it's lucky that you don't go flying off the road whenever it rains? No, because you slow down to an appropriate speed. Bianchi didn't, lost control, and (let's not forget this important fact), almost killed a bunch of volunteers. No one likes death in our sport, but the whitewashing of that incident bothers me. Yes, he died, but his haste almost claimed the lives of those track workers. He went off at a speed that suggests caution was not properly heeded. Those yellows are there to protect the workers as much as the drivers. PEACE.

 

You test crash structures, put acres of run-of, do everything you can think of to make tracks and racing safer and then you decide to put a giant lump of solid metal right where someone has just left the track, whilst cars are still going past? That's supposed to be safe is it?



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#20 Kobasmashi

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:37

It's not luck. Do you think it's lucky that you don't go flying off the road whenever it rains? No, because you slow down to an appropriate speed. Bianchi didn't, lost control, and (let's not forget this important fact), almost killed a bunch of volunteers. No one likes death in our sport, but the whitewashing of that incident bothers me. Yes, he died, but his haste almost claimed the lives of those track workers. He went off at a speed that suggests caution was not properly heeded. Those yellows are there to protect the workers as much as the drivers. PEACE.


None of the drivers slowed down adequately there for the yellows, not just Bianchi.

#21 Razoola

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 09:07

What this shows me is they are trying to put to much into the race weekends without leaving time either side for when situations happen. TV times govern the sport to much these days and this does have an affect on safety in my view along with to much crammed into the race weekends with support races etc. And they are trying to find ways to cram in more......

 

You can't use camera photos as a true reflection on the lighting available as its easy to make then lighter or darker. Many also have automatic brightness correction. From the pictures posted though the thing that tells you it was too dark is the lights you see on around the track in some of the photos.