That Alonso NSX is perfect for as a test mule for the new engine. Just imagine 3 days testing that around a quiet Japanese track somewhere.
I'm sure the P1/P1 GTR would make for a much better mule car.
Posted 07 December 2015 - 19:38
That Alonso NSX is perfect for as a test mule for the new engine. Just imagine 3 days testing that around a quiet Japanese track somewhere.
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Posted 08 December 2015 - 00:50
There's been so much abuse levelled at Honda I think someone has to put this year into perspective. The fact that this years engine is so bad compared to the competition is seen as proof that Honda are inherently doing a worse job than all others but the truth is that they've simply put thier product on the track at a much earlier stage in its development. Mercedes had years of development on top of years of experence with KERS before they released thier product, Honda came in stone cold and went racing after a single year. For all we know the Mercedes engine would have been a disaster after one year of development. There's nothing to indicate that Honda fundamentally can't make a good engine in time.
Yup, Given the situation they faced it was always going to be very hard. Honda definitely underestimated the difficulty level... but then, I think pretty much everyone does too - fans, commentators etc. Not that anyone at Honda are happy or satisfied with what they delivered this year but they've also been pretty clear that doing it this way leaves them better prepared for 2016 than if they'd taken another year of development.
It's not been fun. It's not been pretty. But, 2016 should be completely different so long as the PU has no fundamental issues.
On a different note. Analysis of MP4-30 changes at Abu Dhabi:
http://en.f1i.com/ma...bu-dhabi.html/3
Autosport+ article convering the same thing:
http://plus.autospor...duct-explained/
Useful summary article for engines in 2016:
http://www.skysports...errari-for-2016
Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:03
Only 2015 car allowed, so I guess Vandoorne will do the test.
Interesting that only ALO is at the "Honda thank you day", not BUT. Seems to be that the reports are really true that they pay him and he is a "Honda guy" and BUT is a "McLaren guy".
may be they gave this one to Alonso and that honda tv spot (which was awesome btw) to button, feels equal enough treatment to me.
Edited by Alonsofan007, 08 December 2015 - 03:03.
Posted 08 December 2015 - 01:53
Yup, Given the situation they faced it was always going to be very hard. Honda definitely underestimated the difficulty level... but then, I think pretty much everyone does too - fans, commentators etc. Not that anyone at Honda are happy or satisfied with what they delivered this year but they've also been pretty clear that doing it this way leaves them better prepared for 2016 than if they'd taken another year of development.
It's not been fun. It's not been pretty. But, 2016 should be completely different so long as the PU has no fundamental issues.
On a different note. Analysis of MP4-30 changes at Abu Dhabi:
http://en.f1i.com/ma...bu-dhabi.html/3
Autosport+ article convering the same thing:
http://plus.autospor...duct-explained/
Useful summary article for engines in 2016:
Thanks!
Man, I can't wait to see the new car.
Posted 08 December 2015 - 02:59
That Alonso NSX is perfect for as a test mule for the new engine. Just imagine 3 days testing that around a quiet Japanese track somewhere.
In Racecar eEngineering Arai mentioned there is enough space in the GT NSX to fit the PU, but it can't be a hack job. They found it to be too expensive to go down this route.
Posted 08 December 2015 - 05:52
In Racecar eEngineering Arai mentioned there is enough space in the GT NSX to fit the PU, but it can't be a hack job. They found it to be too expensive to go down this route.
Translation: 2016 PU has already been installed and running in the back of an NSX test mule.
Posted 08 December 2015 - 07:01
Translation: 2016 PU has already been installed and running in the back of an NSX test mule.
i hope so, i mean how can anything be to expensive, what they delivered this year, nothing is to expensive to help make gains
Posted 08 December 2015 - 08:54
McLaren-Honda have a challenge on their hands to return to the front, but Matt Somerfield feels it’s not all doom and gloom.
http://planetf1.com/...-of-the-tunnel/
Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:04
Why in the GT NSX. Super Formula!
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Posted 08 December 2015 - 09:44
Why in the GT NSX. Super Formula!
Arai addressed that too, not enough space!
Posted 08 December 2015 - 11:21
Thanks Muramasa for the report and pictures! Looks you had a great time at the very fun event.
I saw some pictures and videos on Twitter but nothing on the Honda news channel, at least at the time when I checked. Hopefully they will upload something there later.
Interesting to see Alonso on the RC213V. Any rumours of him taking a sabbatical to drive in MotorGP yet?
They set up cameras across the circuit like normal races to show on circuit visions, also i thought i heard announcer saying live-smth so i assumed they were livestreaming but seems that's not the case. Hopefully they would upload those footage coz they are all fun.
At the all-star Honda N-ONE race (Marquez, Pedrosa, Toni Bou, Nakajima sr, Aguri S, Takuma Sato, Takahisa Fujinami and Alonso), Alonso entertained a lot in a just 5 lap or so race:
it's just about coming back to the pit after the short race but turned into sth hilarious thanx to Alonso, people were laughing.
Good to see this before Alonso to SuperGT, MOTO GP etc. rumors start up. He did seem to enjoy that NSX, though.
I think he had fun, but maybe he was more frustrated, he must have wanted to drive them more I guess.
He only did 3-4 laps on NSX, 2 laps each for MotoGP bike and MP4/6, all including both outlap and inlap (N-One race was 5 laps or so).
During the NSX GT demo-run with Sato's NSX roadcar (which was supposed to be 2 lap cruising behind Sato), you could see from his body language that he was frustrated and itching to go for it and try the car (cameras were set up across the track to show it on circuit screens). At 1st lap (outlap), he was hesitating, passed Sato once on straight but get back to his supposed position before the corner. But at the main straight, he finally couldnt resist, or rather like couldnt care less anymore and just opened full throttle and started attack run that moment cracked me up and the stand were laughing as well
Moreover he didnt come back to the pit when he was supposed to do and did extra 1 or 2 laps
Alonso is simply the best
I hope they release those videos, it's nice little entertainment.
Posted 08 December 2015 - 13:30
Didn't he do the same when he was driving Ecclestone's collection piece Ferrari 375 F1 at Silverstone for Ferrari's 60th year in F1 a couple of years back? He did piss Ecclestone and had to run behind the driver parade truck if I remember correctly.Moreover he didnt come back to the pit when he was supposed to do and did extra 1 or 2 laps
Edited by kissTheApex, 08 December 2015 - 13:31.
Posted 08 December 2015 - 15:29
Posted 08 December 2015 - 16:35
F1 Racing – @F1Racing_mag
Fact of the day: 71% of @McLarenF1 fans list 'comedy' as an interest.
Lol
We follow McLaren don't we? This entire season was 100% comedy.
... ... ... ...
Posted 08 December 2015 - 17:28
We follow McLaren don't we? This entire season was 100% comedy.
... ... ... ...
More Hammer Horror
Posted 08 December 2015 - 17:41
Now pictures worked, I want videos please
It's one of the things he tried (RC213V), I didn't find any other thing.
https://www.youtube....gR8&app=desktop
Posted 08 December 2015 - 20:33
found bike vids
pics
http://www.honda.co....td/index-4.html
http://www.honda.co....15/photoreport/
http://as-web.jp/pho...p=621&cnt=29782
http://response.jp/a...586/988643.html
Posted 09 December 2015 - 06:36
Posted 09 December 2015 - 06:51
Guys I'm just going to say it....we are going to win next year.
OK, I can't say I disagree. I have a good feeling myself ... but on what is this statement based?
Posted 09 December 2015 - 07:21
Edited by frewin90, 09 December 2015 - 07:23.
Posted 09 December 2015 - 09:17
Posted 09 December 2015 - 09:47
Brazil GP Japanese source info summary (race day: done fri and sat already in that weekend)
http://as-web.jp/new...c_id=1&no=69588
http://sportiva.shue...5/11/18/f1_100/
also f1 sokuho
Alonso's PU
- Friday issue: damage possibly caused by misfire at the end of USGP
- Sat issue: internal component of engine by a supplier estimated as a cause
-----------------------------------------
Abu Dhabi GP japanese source info summary
http://as-web.jp/new...c_id=1&no=69892
http://as-web.jp/new...c_id=1&no=69852
http://as-web.jp/new...c_id=1&no=69813
http://sportiva.shue...5/12/02/f11217/
also f1 sokuho
FP1
Alonso's PU:
ES failure -> swap ES (previously used one)
possible cause: vibration
on chassis setting (anonymous McLaren-Honda mechanic quoted)
Quali
Race
On this season and next
[all Arai quote except the "unnamed mclaren mechanic" part]
Edited by muramasa, 09 December 2015 - 20:45.
Posted 09 December 2015 - 11:37
Its odd seeing Marlboro on a car again.
Posted 09 December 2015 - 12:32
Guys I'm just going to say it....we are going to win next year.
To win what?
To win WDC and WCC: Sure
To win a race: Very unlikely
Edited by RYARLE, 09 December 2015 - 12:36.
Posted 09 December 2015 - 13:33
OK, I can't say I disagree. I have a good feeling myself ... but on what is this statement based?
Posted 09 December 2015 - 13:51
Well... I don't want to comment much here, because McLaren-Honda of 2015 is exactly what it seemed like after the Australian GP weekend. The worst so-called big team performance I have... seen for decades at least! (if not ever) If you are 5-6 seconds off the pace, it means you have done no homework at all and are hopelessly lagging behind. It is like a decade ago an untested new Minardi being that much off the pace in the season opener.
The big surprise was that basically they could not improve at all during the season (since the Malaysian, etc rounds, where they cut the deficit down to 2-3 secs). Not even to the level of the Saubers of this world. Which means that both the PU regulations are tight and Honda really have deep fundamental problems.
Also during the season it was discussed that Honda is too conservative and hasn't hired the best specialists around the world, which is holding them back. Or their overall F1 project startegy has been wrong - maybe they entered F1 too early, but even by the standards of a "testing year" they were very much unprepared. On the back of such a bad performance all these claims have a point.
Posted 09 December 2015 - 15:25
I found this video of Alonso in the MP4/6
Posted 09 December 2015 - 17:34
Interesting post over at F1 technical:
http://www.f1technic...=612437#p612437
Basically it says that the problems were localised heat and vibrations in the TC at high rpm and that down-tuning it for reliability cost 60-80 hp (not stated, but I guess that's for quali mode).
This is not official information and it could be fake, incomplete or heavily biased... but it feels quite reasonable to me. Feels like something from an engineer.
Arai has previously stated that they fully understood the problems about half-way through the year. I hope that means they were able to prove this by validating a prototype solution - else I'd say that they haven't fully understood it.
Posted 09 December 2015 - 17:37
Guys I'm just going to say it....we are going to win next year.
probably mchon will spend the first 3 races adjusting the car in all aspects
if there is a race they will win in 2016 iam near sure it will be suzuka gp 2016 i'd even put money on it.
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Posted 10 December 2015 - 01:43
Hmmm, I dunno...
I think we need to be realistic so that we arent shot down and only surprised if win/s did happen!
Realistically, actually fighting the top teams with podium potential would be an incredible improvement and a great achievement.
Saying we will be properly beating Merc and Ferrari is a brave call. But next year will be lots better and from there, the future championship charge can truly begin
Never know though, closing that gap and having some luck could give McHon some surprising results. About time they had good luck, this year has been unreal - not talking about performance - in terms of bad luck, so many unavoidable incidents.
Badly looking forward to 2016, esp quali in Aus. Gonna be a long, hard winter!
Realistically...
We had the worst reliability this year by far. It should improve hugely but we'll probably still have worse reliability than most teams both in testing and during the season. While I would love to see the car racking up the miles and doing repeated hot laps during winter testing, I don't think we should get too worked up with teething problems and the odd stoppage or middling mileage. I just really really hope that if we do get in to a position to go for a race win that reliability doesn't let us down.
Realistically...
Though the car philosophy will stay the same, it'll still take time to optimise the setup, particularly if the PU does deliver as expected since that'll mean the various loads on the car will increase significantly. Testing is there for a reason and we can't expect the car to be perfect out of the box. It would be great if testing is very smooth and everything goes to plan but generally the early part of the season has the highest attrition rate and most variability - this would be a big opportunity if we had the chassis/PU fully sorted at the first race but given the mountain we need to climb and the very limited testing time it's not something we can rely upon. Though the regulations will be the same the tires could change a lot - I've no idea if that'll hurt or help us.
Realistically...
For next year's car to have a chance of winning races it'll have to be as good or better than the best of this year. That's a big jump to make and I think Fernando's suggestion of 2.5s being needed is about right (for the early part of the season and on race pace). I don't know if we can win the development race but I don't think we can count on significant changes in relative performance during the season.
Realistically...
Winter testing will only give us a vague idea of the competitive order. Things should firm a lot by the time FP3 is completed in Australia but it's probably best not to hold any assumptions from practice too tightly.
Realistically...
We can expect our drivers to deliver
Posted 10 December 2015 - 14:26
At Motegi they finally removed the acrylic protection box from the display PU
Which allowed me to take pics like this
(I remember seeing some pro-shot pics taken at GP venues that captured turbine blades in the exhaust tail pipe like this. Seems genuine.
can see 2 wastegate exits, one at bottom from the right side bank, bit difficult to see but one on the upper part from the left side bank.
↓ ↓ ↓ http://www.racecar-e.../10/Uphonda.jpg
and these
(as you can see this pic is bit tilted to clockwise, so need to rotate like 30 degree to anti-clockwise direction to get correct vertical/horizontal posture)
just quickly done, hope correct
and will try to share other and prev pics asap
Maybe void of those ancillaries but inside the vee looked more "empty" or "un-stuffed" than I expected.
Couldnt figure out MGU-H unit, but what should be the compressor unit is located quite deep inside, like somewhere just in front of center point of PU rather than at the edge of the front of PU.
Edited by muramasa, 10 December 2015 - 21:44.
Posted 10 December 2015 - 17:05
Made me laugh... not only have us Macca/ Button / Alonso fans had to endure a horrible season, Autosport are asking for money to read about how bad the season was with a plus feature too! Talk about rubbing it in haha.
Posted 10 December 2015 - 17:08
At Motegi they finally removed the acrylic protection box from the display PU
Which allowed me to take pics like this
Cracking shots, Grommit!
Really excellent stuff - thanks!
Posted 10 December 2015 - 17:19
Posted 10 December 2015 - 19:26
I found this video of Alonso in the MP4/6
A single car that sounds better than the whole 2015 field combined... awesome or sad, depending on how you look at it.
Posted 12 December 2015 - 21:54
Posted 13 December 2015 - 00:35
Yup, Given the situation they faced it was always going to be very hard. Honda definitely underestimated the difficulty level... but then, I think pretty much everyone does too - fans, commentators etc. Not that anyone at Honda are happy or satisfied with what they delivered this year but they've also been pretty clear that doing it this way leaves them better prepared for 2016 than if they'd taken another year of development.
It's not been fun. It's not been pretty. But, 2016 should be completely different so long as the PU has no fundamental issues.
On a different note. Analysis of MP4-30 changes at Abu Dhabi:
http://en.f1i.com/ma...bu-dhabi.html/3
Autosport+ article convering the same thing:
http://plus.autospor...duct-explained/
Useful summary article for engines in 2016:
Thanks for info.Good stuff.
Posted 13 December 2015 - 10:31
Looking at these engine pics it feels like those are taken of a prototype rather than a complete design. Although we all seem to accept that Honda entered with too little development time on their shoulders that could explain it.
Posted 13 December 2015 - 21:51
Looking at these engine pics it feels like those are taken of a prototype rather than a complete design.
What do you see that suggests this ?
Posted 14 December 2015 - 18:41
Interesting (more of a summary) article by Alan Henry, mostly about 2015 and the Honda engine:
http://www.mclaren.c...ing-gets-tough/
PS Looking at the pics of the Honda engine, I always thought it looked visibly well designed with lots of detail. The Renault PU looks rather basic in comparison. Of course, this is just surface detail and it's what's under the surface that's important.
Posted 28 December 2015 - 12:55
Interesting (more of a summary) article by Alan Henry, mostly about 2015 and the Honda engine:
http://www.mclaren.c...ing-gets-tough/
Edited by turssi, 28 December 2015 - 12:56.