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2015 - MotoGP, WSB, Moto2, WSS, AMA, BSB Part 2


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#1 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 10:21

continued



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#2 Atreiu

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 11:04

I knew tyre management would decide the race.

But I never expected Pedrosa to have such a fantastic race and romp away.

He is the most underrated guy even though he has always been an alien.


Edited by Atreiu, 11 October 2015 - 11:05.


#3 manmower

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 13:53

Sort of repost but it bears repeating with the thread switch...

MotoGP.com:
 

Update 11/10/2015: MotoGP rider Alex De Angelis underwent further medical checks on Sunday morning at Dokkyo Medical University Hospital. An MRI was performed, showing an intracranial bleeding. However, this has to be better evaluated, and the rider will undergo a neurosurgical evaluation later on. Dr. Michele Zasa from Clinica Mobile is going to stay with the rider for the next few days, in order to follow the clinical evolution of the patient.

MotoGP™ Medical Director Michele Macchiagodena: "Alex underwent a head CT scan on Saturday which gave negative results - however further checks today with the MRI demonstrated that he suffered intracranial bleeding - his condition is critical and he needs to be monitored closely. He's currently sedated, his vital signs are stable but we need to keep an eye on the bleeding to evaluate, within the next 24/48 hours, if further intervention is required."


There's also a video with the update from Macchiagodena.

#4 Disgrace

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 14:22

Pol Esparago must be seriously concerning the Yamaha management now. When did he last put a race together without falling off the circuit at least once? He has to demolish Smith next year as Smith as done to him this season if he wants to have a future on a factory machine.



#5 MCR

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 14:25

Pol Esparago must be seriously concerning the Yamaha management now. When did he last put a race together without falling off the circuit at least once? He has to demolish Smith next year as Smith as done to him this season if he wants to have a future on a factory machine.

 

No idea, but he has been very poor this season, at least in comparison to bradley who is nearly on double the points.

 

I would like to see Pol doing well, he seems like a good guy.

 

Not that it matters right now, the season is nearly over, next year is what counts, but I suspect he will get a telling off.



#6 MCR

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 14:28

Permutations for the championship.

 

Rossi will win:

-If he finishes second in the remaining 3 races.

-If he finishes 1 place lower than Lorenzo in the remaining races.

 

In other words, the championship is now officially out of Lorenzo's hands.  Lorenzo needs a intervention from another rider, or a mistake from Rossi.


Edited by MCR, 11 October 2015 - 18:49.


#7 Jamelon

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 14:59

Very poor race management by Lorenzo today. He should have managed to stay ahead of Rossi easily. Big mistake. Rossi had a great start for once and managed his pace  perfectly.

 

Good to see Dani back in full fitness. He will play a critical role on the battle for the championship for sure.

 

I think/hope The Doctor will take the title, but it'll be very close.



#8 Andy35

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 15:14

Well well well.  If Rossi gets this championship then he will be the GOAT no questions. He's slower but he's older, I can appreciate that. It almost seems like pure willpower trying to get him there again.

 

Nice work from  Dani, got his dandar up from last time out it seems.

 

Rossi is always good at Philip Island. Go on mate. for us old timers.  

 

Andy


Edited by Andy35, 11 October 2015 - 15:14.


#9 MCR

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 15:35

Very poor race management by Lorenzo today. He should have managed to stay ahead of Rossi easily. Big mistake. Rossi had a great start for once and managed his pace perfectly.

Good to see Dani back in full fitness. He will play a critical role on the battle for the championship for sure.

I think/hope The Doctor will take the title, but it'll be very close.


I don't know you could call it race management. All the yamaha riders have said lorenzo's riding style leans very hard on the front tyre, I think it is a riding style issue with lorenzo

#10 chunder27

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 16:22

Pol has always been like this.

 

Same as his brother to be honest a vastly overrated rider in my opinion, great over a lap but very hit and miss in race situations, but in fairness to Aelix he has utterly no form in lower formulas but has done well in the top class and deserves his place.

 

It is what you get when a manufacturer believes the hype and takes a punt and then can't admit they have made a mistake.

 

I believe the lad is good enough but has shown little so far in his career in MotoGP, very similar to Simoncelli, Bautista, Barbera who came in with decent 250 or Moto2 reputauions and hvae flattered to deceive. Ianone has made them all look silly as hvae guys like Petrucci and Bradley.

 

But then again look at Redding, he has really bene poor this year and could be condired lucky to get a ride, but I think most people he simply doesnt fit on that midgets bike and deserves at least one more chance.

 

Pol has one year and needs at least 3 or 4 podiums next year and to be beat Brad or he is gone to a satellit garbage Yam.

 

Lorenzo reminds me so much of Biaggi and Cadalora, all front end and if that aint there he cant change his style.



#11 Jamelon

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 16:26

I don't know you could call it race management. All the yamaha riders have said lorenzo's riding style leans very hard on the front tyre, I think it is a riding style issue with lorenzo

I don't see that as an excuse. He had pace to spare in the first part of the race. Regardless of his riding style, faster pace means faster tyre wear. Going faster than necessary with wet tyres in a drying track wasn't very wise. Rossi might have been able to catch him even he had been more careful anyway, we'll never know, but he did actively make it more likely to happen.



#12 MCR

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 16:55

I don't see that as an excuse. He had pace to spare in the first part of the race. Regardless of his riding style, faster pace means faster tyre wear. Going faster than necessary with wet tyres in a drying track wasn't very wise. Rossi might have been able to catch him even he had been more careful anyway, we'll never know, but he did actively make it more likely to happen.

Lorenzo maintained a gap of 3-3.8 seconds for about 4-5 laps.  You could argue that he was pacing himself. In fact you could go even further and argue that perhaps he should have pushed more when the track was damp as it would have been a better use of the tyre.

 

My own suspcion is all riders were flat out at all times.  I think you run that race again 100 times, the result would still be Pedrosa 1, Rossi 2, Lorenzo 3.

 

Even if Lorenzo had of paced himself from the beginning he would have found himself in a dog fight with Rossi, and Rossi normally comes out on top.

 

Don't really see what else Lorenzo could have done, other than brake in a straight line more, and use less corner speed to spare the front tyre - i.e change his riding style


Edited by MCR, 11 October 2015 - 16:56.


#13 Andy35

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 17:07

 

But then again look at Redding, he has really bene poor this year and could be condired lucky to get a ride, but I think most people he simply doesnt fit on that midgets bike and deserves at least one more chance.

 

 

 

He certainly has and yes i agree with you about one more chance.  He was my big white hope for the UK but instead it is Smith once again not doing too badly. I was really badly wrong about him, I admit it. Bradley will never be an alien but he's no duffer in MotoGP. I'm just talking Uk riders here in my ratings by the way.

 

Andy



#14 chunder27

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 18:21

I think Scott has the most talent of all of them, he was one of teh few with iannone and Pol to be able to beat up Marquez in Moto2 and 125's and simply dies not fit on the bike as it is built fo midgets like Marc and Dani, remember Baz was told he would not be able to ride for a team because of this and Scott is only a midge shorter.

 

For me Bradley is like Cal, a grafter, all heart and getting there through sheer hard work and determination. Both have for me over achieved. If you think in BSB old days Cal was fighting with Sykes, Haslam, Rea, Byrne, Camier, Laverty, he has achieved far more than anyo of them without really being miles better than any of them, that is through his bloody mindedness, ability to please sponsors and also being able to say "tell you waht stepping back to win a 600 title might be a good thing) and it was.



#15 MCR

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 18:52

I think Scott has the most talent of all of them, he was one of teh few with iannone and Pol to be able to beat up Marquez in Moto2 and 125's and simply dies not fit on the bike as it is built fo midgets like Marc and Dani, remember Baz was told he would not be able to ride for a team because of this and Scott is only a midge shorter.

 

For me Bradley is like Cal, a grafter, all heart and getting there through sheer hard work and determination. Both have for me over achieved. If you think in BSB old days Cal was fighting with Sykes, Haslam, Rea, Byrne, Camier, Laverty, he has achieved far more than anyo of them without really being miles better than any of them, that is through his bloody mindedness, ability to please sponsors and also being able to say "tell you waht stepping back to win a 600 title might be a good thing) and it was.

I know it is unpopular, but I do think Bradley has found something this year.  Nevertheless, I feel there is perhaps better talent in the lower formulas, but if he beats up Pol again next year he may deserve a shot at factory Yamaha.  Bradley looks early 30s, but he is only 24, that is still young, he is still developing.

 

I agree with you about Scott, motorsport is perhaps the only time in your life where it pays to be smaller than the average man.  It is a shame for him, yet Rossi is quite tall too.


Edited by MCR, 11 October 2015 - 18:54.


#16 chunder27

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 20:08

Cant really see what else is comin in lower formulas

 

Kent has been up and down, as has Oliveira but is comgin very good recently.

 

Maybe Zarco is looking the best. Rabat I think is a one trick pony and is going to get found out in GP like Redding was, he is almost as big and looks like death warmed up bless him! 

 

I can see Bastiannini being a top runner soon, he seems to be consistently improving.

 

And of course Rins os the boy who has done more than just abotu anyone, even Vinales recently, he looks top drawer, but was riding with a Marquez in Moto3 which always means second best treatment in the Dorna Marquez love in championship.  Alexs bike was ALWAYS faster whenever I saw them together and he was taller, work that out?


Edited by chunder27, 11 October 2015 - 20:08.


#17 Atreiu

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 20:14

Very poor race management by Lorenzo today. He should have managed to stay ahead of Rossi easily. Big mistake. Rossi had a great start for once and managed his pace  perfectly.

 

Good to see Dani back in full fitness. He will play a critical role on the battle for the championship for sure.

 

I think/hope The Doctor will take the title, but it'll be very close.

 

 

These things are tough to call without hindsight.

 

Track conditions worked in favour of those who better saved their tyres in the first part of the race. I guess Lorenzo simply expected the track to remain wet enough to minimize

degradation and thus allow him to protect his lead. I don't think he was poor, he simply wasn't the best this time.

Nobody had an answer to Pedrosa.

 

edit: but I did know tyre wear would decide it. ;)


Edited by Atreiu, 11 October 2015 - 20:32.


#18 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 20:28

I don't think that Rossi and Pedrosa were slower early in the race because they planned to be, they just were. Lorenzo was more comfortable in those conditions.

 

I think we need to remember that Lorenzo is a bit of an outlier in terms of setup and lines, which in my mind is a factor. Lorenzo spends more time on the edge of the tire and is probably more affected by heavy wear like that. Rossi and Pedrosa are more point and shoot. They might momentarily ask more of that front tire but the amount of time spent there is lower, so while they're all tiptoeing at maximum lean angle Lorenzo is having to spend more time tiptoeing.



#19 Atreiu

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 20:33

True.

 

I guess someone will have to ask them next time. Did they plan on saving tyres or did they react to conditions all race long.



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#20 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 20:39

I don't think Rossi would tell the truth. ;)



#21 Disgrace

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 22:13

Alex de Angelis in a critical condition after MotoGP Motegi crash.

 

Alex de Angelis is now in a critical condition in hospital in Japan after a further scan on Sunday found an intracranial bleed following his heavy crash in MotoGP practice at Motegi.

 

The Ioda rider was initially diagnosed with a lung contusion plus multiple fractures to ribs and vertebrae after he was airlifted to Dokkyo Hospital on Saturday.

 

That examination suggested his head injury was confined to concussion, but MotoGP medical director Dr Michele Macchiagodena said subsequent checks revealed further complications.

 



#22 Risil

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 22:15

Wow, I'd completely missed all the news about De Angelis. Wishing him the best of luck for a recovery.

 

Also, Takumi Takahashi made his MotoGP debut today, finishing 12th on an RC213V (ahead of all the "production" bikes). His last Grand Prix was on a 250 at Motegi in 2008, riding for the brilliantly named "Burning Blood Racing". Kousuke Akiyoshi also returned for a one-off ride on the RC213V-S, and beat Toni Elias.



#23 HP

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 23:13

MM's no show was quite remarkable. It seemed as if he were no existent, What happened? Was it really just his injury?

 

Well well well.  If Rossi gets this championship then he will be the GOAT no questions. He's slower but he's older, I can appreciate that. It almost seems like pure willpower trying to get him there again.

 

Nice work from  Dani, got his dandar up from last time out it seems.

 

Rossi is always good at Philip Island. Go on mate. for us old timers.  

 

Andy

If he just could deliver over an entire season.



#24 Atreiu

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 00:00

Motegi is a horrible circuit to race injured. Hard breaking, hard acceleration. Plus he has crashed enough for 2 season this year. It's about time he takes it easy.



#25 Rob

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 00:02

Fingers crossed for de Angelis. :(



#26 Atreiu

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 00:04

Bad news about De Angelis...



#27 Rurouni

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 00:49

I think Scott has the most talent of all of them, he was one of teh few with iannone and Pol to be able to beat up Marquez in Moto2 and 125's and simply dies not fit on the bike as it is built fo midgets like Marc and Dani, remember Baz was told he would not be able to ride for a team because of this and Scott is only a midge shorter.

Yes, the bike might be built for a smaller person, but I believe someone like Pedrosa is just a bit too small for MotoGP. So in Pedrosa case, being small is probably a disadvantage vs someone taller. There is certainly a sweet spot in terms of height, but definitely not Pedrosa's height.



#28 manmower

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 06:55

Regarding de Angelis, I want to be cautious here but I did find an update on iodaracing.com that seems a bit more reassuring. Was also posted yesterday but I'm unsure as to the exact time.
 

Una risonanza magnetica effettuata nella mattinata di oggi ha evidenziato un lieve versamento intracranico che al momento non desta preoccupazioni ma che è tenuto sotto stretta osservazione dai sanitari nipponici. Il versamento non era presente nella giornata di ieri, ma rientra nelle conseguenze del forte trauma cranico che Alex ha subìto a seguito della caduta. Un neurochirurgo provvederà a visitare il pilota nella serata di oggi (ora giapponese).

 
"An MRI performed in the morning today showed a slight intracranial hemorrhage which is currently not of concern but that is kept under close observation by the Japanese medical staff. The hemorrhage was not present yesterday, but is part of the consequences of the massive head trauma that Alex has suffered as a result of the fall. A neurosurgeon will visit the pilot in the evening today (Japan time)."

#29 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 07:11

Seems odd to include "massive head trauma" and then say that it's not a concern. Translation issue?



#30 Myrvold

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 07:59

Seems odd to include "massive head trauma" and then say that it's not a concern. Translation issue?


Doesn't need to be the case, but this early, I recon it's still a concern.

I had a massive head trauma my self 10 years ago. Broke my skull and got internal bleedings. But after 30 hours. It wasn't a major danger anymore. Due to my broken skull. The pressure got released.

#31 manmower

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 08:19

Update 12/10/2015: On Monday, De Angelis had a head and chest CT scan, which reassuringly showed that the intracranial hematoma he suffered was unchanged while the contusions to his lungs are slightly resolving. The rider remains in a critical condition but as his sedation was reduced, he was able to talk and oriented in time and space. He'll undergo a further head CT scan in the next 48 to 72 hours to ensure the intracranial hematoma is stable while the conditions of the lungs will need further evaluation.

MotoGP™ Safety Adviser Loris Capirossi and FIM Grand Prix Safety Officer Franco Uncini visited de Angelis on Monday morning; during his treatment in Japan, the rider is assisted by Dr Michele Zasa from the Clinica Mobile.

#32 Chubby_Deuce

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 08:20

"Luckily I broke my skull"  :D



#33 Retrofly

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 08:23

"Luckily I broke my skull"  :D

 

Yep, if you don't break it the Surgeons will do it for you, or just take a piece off for a bit :up:



#34 DrProzac

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 08:43

Permutations for the championship.

 

Rossi will win:

-If he finishes second in the remaining 3 races.

-If he finishes 1 place lower than Lorenzo in the remaining races.

 

In other words, the championship is now officially out of Lorenzo's hands.  Lorenzo needs a intervention from another rider, or a mistake from Rossi.

I wouldn't say it's over. Lorenzo has better pace than the Doctor, and there's MM who can interfere. It takes one race with Marquez between Rossi and Lorenzo, and it will complicate things for the former a lot. Also Pedrosa seems to be quite competetive now.



#35 MCR

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 08:51

I wouldn't say it's over. Lorenzo has better pace than the Doctor, and there's MM who can interfere. It takes one race with Marquez between Rossi and Lorenzo, and it will complicate things for the former a lot. Also Pedrosa seems to be quite competetive now.



No, it definitely isn't over. But this is the first point in the season where the title outcome cannot be decided solely on what Lorenzo does.

Edited by MCR, 12 October 2015 - 12:40.


#36 GSiebert

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 13:04

There's a new guy at work, he looks exactly like Ben Spies and goes to work by bike. Never thought he'd work in IT after his racing career.

 

That's all.


Edited by GSiebert, 12 October 2015 - 13:12.


#37 Tardis40

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 14:59

Admittedly being a dilettante at motorcycle racing it puzzles me how Lorenzo always seems to be so much faster at the beginning of the race.  He gaps Rossi, but Vale always seems to reel him back in at the end.  I realize that in this particular race tire wear was a big issue but that is not usually the case.  How is Jorge so much quicker in the opening laps?



#38 GSiebert

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 15:18

Rossi isn't as good at using the extra grip of brand new tires. That's also why he's struggling in quali.


Edited by GSiebert, 12 October 2015 - 15:18.


#39 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 11:57

Ciao a tutti Purtroppo ieri causa una caduta in allenamento con la mountain bike sono in forse per la gara del Qatar. Momento difficile.

 

TRANSLATED FROM ITALIAN BY BING

Hi all, unfortunately today because a fall in training with mountain biking are perhaps in the Qatar race. Hard time.

 

As I understand his participation in Qatar in doubt?



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#40 Rob

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 12:04

Yep, he might miss Qatar.



#41 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 12:33

Glad to hear that De Angelis is conscious.  A step in the right direction.



#42 Requiem84

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 13:24

Admittedly being a dilettante at motorcycle racing it puzzles me how Lorenzo always seems to be so much faster at the beginning of the race.  He gaps Rossi, but Vale always seems to reel him back in at the end.  I realize that in this particular race tire wear was a big issue but that is not usually the case.  How is Jorge so much quicker in the opening laps?

 

Lorenzo mostly, but also Pedrosa and Marquez are running qualifying laps for the first few laps of the race. With a full fuel tank, they drive pretty insane laptimes at that stage. 

 

For Lorenzo, who seems to rely a lot on a smooth driving style, carrying a lot of speed into the corner and obtaining high mid corner speeds, it is possible to use the fresh front tires a bit more than Rossi. It seems Rossi has a more old school way of riding; very late braking deep into the corner, arched entry, good exit speed of the corner. 

 

I would also say that is the reason Rossi isn't that fast in qualifying; his style is not suited to extracting the ultimate one lap pace. It is however a bit more gentle on the (front) tires. 

 

Perhaps I'm over simplifying a bit, but this is my rough estimation of the situation based on various articles. 



#43 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 14:37

Slight update on Alex De Angelis - he posted a picture on his FB page. A positive sign #GetWellSoonAlex facebook.com/alexdeangelis1…



#44 Nova

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 16:08

Admittedly being a dilettante at motorcycle racing it puzzles me how Lorenzo always seems to be so much faster at the beginning of the race.  He gaps Rossi, but Vale always seems to reel him back in at the end.  I realize that in this particular race tire wear was a big issue but that is not usually the case.  How is Jorge so much quicker in the opening laps?

 

 

As a Honda fan it's the story of the post Honda era for Rossi. I can not count the number of times a Honda was out in the lead, where I was sure of victory, and then Rossi started to put in the laps and take the victory in the end. It's not just Lorenzo. Frustrating, but credit where credit is due.



#45 Vibe

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 16:19

Lorenzo is in some ways, the polar opposite of Rossi. Lorenzo is best in the first laps, Rossi in the last laps. Lorenzo is best with maximum grip, Rossi is best with minimum grip. Lorenzo gets a rhytm early, Rossi late.

Although these are all connected things, somewhat different.

#46 Vibe

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 16:19

Lorenzo is in some ways, the polar opposite of Rossi. Lorenzo is best in the first laps, Rossi in the last laps. Lorenzo is best with maximum grip, Rossi is best with minimum grip. Lorenzo gets a rhytm early, Rossi late.

Although these are all connected things, somewhat different.

#47 Atreiu

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 16:27

Lorenzo is in some ways, the polar opposite of Rossi. Lorenzo is best in the first laps, Rossi in the last laps. Lorenzo is best with maximum grip, Rossi is best with minimum grip. Lorenzo gets a rhytm early, Rossi late.

Although these are all connected things, somewhat different.

 

 

The odd thing is that Lorenzo wasn't always like this.

He won his first title and almost 20 races before becoming the the ultimate get away stay away type of rider.

 

Between 2008 and 2011, only 6 of his 18 wins had him leading every lap. But from 2012 onwards it became more normal until finally this is only how he wins.

 

Is he a better rider? Yes, certainly. Why does he only win from the front? I don't know.



#48 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 16:42

Phillip Island is the only track at which Bridgestone's famed 'soft-edge' treatment won't feature in any tyre, because of huge tyre stress

 

@matoxley They don't have the edge treatment there because PI is like Mugello. And who won there again?

 

@motomatters Exactly. Was waiting for people to say JL's PI hopes will therefore be crushed, but racing is never that black & white.

 

@matoxley This year has proven that the standard narrative can't be trusted. Nothing turns out the way we expect. Which makes it so great.



#49 OvDrone

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 17:33

Seems like de Angelis is going the right direction. Thank goodness. Phew.

 

There's a new guy at work, he looks exactly like Ben Spies and goes to work by bike. Never thought he'd work in IT after his racing career.

 

That's all.

 

:lol:

 

Used to be a huge Spies fan.

 

Think he has a Sushi Restaurant in downtime Austin, Texas.



#50 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
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  • 24,873 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 13 October 2015 - 17:35

Following the recent announcement of Hiroki Ono’s injury, the Leopard Racing Team announce Joan Mir to compete the race at Philip Island.