15 replies to this topic

[D-Type]

I've just found this: http://www.psychoont...z-300-slr-no-5/ 

 

The article says that the Schlumpf Museum obtained it by swapping a W196 with Mercedes.  But, how did they acquire the W196?  I thought that the only W196 that 'escaped' from Daimler-Benz  is the one that was donated to the [British] National Motor Museum and subsequently sold by them.  

[Tim Murray]

To be fair to Ralph, what he actually says is this:
 

Just how the Schlumpf brothers managed to acquire 300 SLR no.5 in 1966 remains a mystery, at least one source reckons it was traded for a fabled W196 Grand Prix car of the same vintage, which only begs the question how did the Schlumpf brother obtain a W196, because Mercedes Benz have been quite meticulous in holding onto their post war racing heritage.

No doubt he'll chip in when he spots this, but I suspect he regards the 'swapped for a W196' story with as much suspicion as many of the rest of us.

[Allan Lupton]

Well if they did that swap it was before 1967 when Jenks wrote the Profile No 55. He shows 0005/55 as "on loan to Schlumpf Museum, Malmerspach"

Oh, I've just looked at your link and it says 1966 anyway (as Tim quotes)!

However the important point may be Jenks wrote "on loan" don't you think?

Edited by Allan Lupton, 12 October 2015 - 09:59.

[bradbury west]

The source process for the 300SLR, according to Jenks on p41 of The Schlumpf Obsession, was as a swap with MB who were anxious to source some veteran cars for their own museum in Stuttgart. Nothing about the 196, though. They did have a selection of pre war MB Grand Prix cars too.
Roger Lund

[raceannouncer2003]

We visited in 2012:

 

 

How did they get these two, or has that been covered?

 

 

Vince H.

Edited by raceannouncer2003, 12 October 2015 - 18:23.

[Doug Nye]

I believe there is more credence in the story that the brothers Schlumpf 'looked after' Alfred Neubauer very well during his later career with Daimler-Benz and that in return he finessed for them the loan of the SLR and the 'surplus' Grand Prix cars from the Daimler-Benz Museum's jam-packed storerooms. The terms of that loan are unknown to me but I did hear that it was subsequently translated into a donation perhaps soon after the French State's take-over of the Mulhouse Museum.  It has always sounded fairly nefarious to me - but I have never seen hard evidence either way...  One assumes that these days, with considerable public footfall through the Museum halls, D-B are happy to enjoy the brand exposure there. But this would certainly not have been the case when it was the Schlumpf brothers' jealously-guarded and immensely secretive private toy box.  Cultivating friends in influential places can sometimes pay off... albeit fleetingly...  

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 12 October 2015 - 20:15.

[GreenMachine]

RA, I tried to post near identical photos last night, mine taken in '07.  I see not much had (has?) changed.

[arttidesco]

Apologies for not referencing the unlikely story of the 300 SLR no.5 being 'probably' traded for a W196 which came from a chap called Jos Hugense translated by Jaap Horst who also mentions Neubauers involvement on this link :- http://www.bugattire...e5/schlumpf.htm

[Peter Morley]

I first visited the Schlumpf collection at around the same time as that article from the Bugatti club (e.g. when the workers had occupied the museum).

I remember seeing the two W154s, one without bodywork - somehow the 300SLR & W125 didn't register the same with my 13 year old self!.

They also had several earlier Mercedes race cars which could also have come direct from Mercedes?

 

Maybe the "trade" with a W196 came before they even took possession, which could explain having two W154s rather than 3 different models.

Or some confusion with a streamlined W196 & the 300 SLR?

[D-Type]

Let's not forget that latterly Neubauer was in charge of the M-B museum.  But I don't know how much autonomy he had.

[jj2728]

Which W196 Streamliner does the IMS museum have?

[Ray Bell]

This one:

[jj2728]

Ray, Yes I know the car as I've seen it at the IMS. I was just wondering what chassis it was and how did it come about that the IMS acquired it.

 

John

[Wouter Melissen]

I talked to someone high up at Mercedes-Benz during the Festival of Speed this year. He said that Mercedes-Benz actually still owns the car but possession is 9/10s of the law, so they have no control more over the car after all these years.

[B Squared]

Ray, Yes I know the car as I've seen it at the IMS. I was just wondering what chassis it was and how did it come about that the IMS acquired it.

 

John

I don't know the chassis number, but I've always wondered if with them having so much Carraciola memoribilia, if it was arranged as a part of that donation.

 

edit: I've found a couple of sources saying the Speedway owned car is Moss' 1955 Italian GP car and is chassis 09. Next time I talk to Ellen at the Museum I'll see if she knows the circumstances of its acquisition.

Edited by B Squared, 23 October 2015 - 20:29.

[Ray Bell]

The Carraciola collection is a direct result of Rudi's crash at Indy...

The Hulman family took good care of him and Rudi donated his trophies in return.