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First live TV GP


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#1 JtP2

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 00:55

Trying to work out the first live F1 GP broadcast. I know in the early days that you didn't get start to finish coverage, but intermediate coverage. I seem to remember Moss at Monaco in 61, the no side panels on the Lotus. So was the coverage live and was it first?



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#2 Gary Davies

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 01:38

First Grand Prix I ever saw on the telly. as a young lad, it hooked me for life it did. It was live on the BBC but hugely interrupted by lesser pastimes such as athletics, cricket, tiddlywinks, horse racing and probably, moto cross from some muddy place commentated by dear Murray.



#3 Ray Bell

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 02:31

I think this subject has come up before...

I've got an idea that there was a Monaco race broadcast in the mid to late fifties.

In Australia we were well behind the 8-ball. In fact, newscasts with glimpses of Grand Prix news were rare even into the sixties. Our first direct broadcast was '76 Japan, and that one was delayed so long it would have burned off any enthusiasm for televising Grands Prix here for years.

#4 Paul Taylor

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 02:56

33 minutes of the 1959 Monaco GP TV broadcast may be found here:

 

People have somehow been sneaking into TV archives and leaking many tapes lately and they've ended up on the internet.



#5 Nick Wa

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 03:57

Definitely saw the start of '56 British G.P. on B.B.C. Probably a single camera operation because only saw the start and Gonzalez being pushed off the grid. Then 2 cars coming round Woodcote with not another car in sight. As I was watching through the local TV dealers window I had no commentary it was only when they got closer I realised they were B.R.M.s!!!!!!!!!!!!! After a couple of laps  the picture reverted to nags being lead round in circles and I went back to my radio as I had no idea when the next cross would be. Of coarse by the time a radio report came on my dreams would be shattered. 

One has seen so many clips of '57 I can't remember if it was on TV but '59 was. For '58 I relied on my own eyes from the exit of Stowe again J.M.H. failed to win but at least he got a pint of beer for being 2nd.


Edited by Nick Wa, 14 October 2015 - 04:00.


#6 Tim Murray

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 05:15

As Ray says, there have been a number of threads covering various aspects of early TV coverage. The most comprehensive of them is this one:

The definitive 1950-1980 F1 TV coverage thread

which features, in dweller23’s opening post, a link to his very useful database of TV coverage of World Drivers’ Championship races from 1950. The earliest known coverage he records is from the 1953 British GP, which featured recorded highlights. The earliest known live coverage was from the 1953 Italian GP.

Looking at the TV listings for the 1953 British GP coverage on the BBC Genome site it would appear that they showed the F3 and sports car races live, but reserved highlights from the Grand Prix itself until later in the day – horse racing from Ascot being far more important than live Grand Prix coverage, of course.  ;)

http://genome.ch.bbc...bctv/1953-07-18

In that earlier thread Vitesse2 noted that the BBC televised the Sydenham Trophy at Crystal Palace in May 1939.


Edited by Tim Murray, 14 October 2015 - 05:25.


#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 06:59

In that earlier thread Vitesse2 noted that the BBC televised the Sydenham Trophy at Crystal Palace in May 1939.

BBC covered occasional meetings from Crystal Palace  from 1937 onwards, starting with the Crystal Palace Trophy in that year, but their limited outside broadcast capabilities meant that other sports with a more general appeal like cricket and tennis sometimes took precedence. The 1939 Sydenham Trophy was their last pre-WW2 motor racing broadcast, although it seems likely that they would also have covered the cancelled London GP in October 1939. In early 1938 they also investigated the possibility of showing Brooklands meetings, but nothing ever came of this - probably for technical reasons.

 

German television also provided some live motor racing-related coverage from (at least) the 1939 Berlin Motor Show, but the BBC Crystal Palace broadcasts appear to have been the only motor racing meetings shown live anywhere in the world before WW2. Other stations may have shown recorded newsreels, of course.



#8 Barry Boor

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 07:23

Just a passing thought.....

In that 1959 coverage of Monaco, the road up towards the Casino seems to have a much tighter S-bend in it that it does today. I wonder if they removed some of the pavements in later years, to straighten the road somewhat.

Does anyone see what I mean?

#9 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 07:53

The BBC  had a report of practice for the 1953 British Grand Prix on the friday preceding the race. I recall some nice shots of Tony Rolt going through  Wodcote in the Connaught.

I am not sure if these would have been 'live' though. I didnt see any coverage of he meting itself as I was lucky enough to be there.


Edited by Eric Dunsdon, 14 October 2015 - 07:54.


#10 dweller23

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 09:31

I think this subject has come up before...

I've got an idea that there was a Monaco race broadcast in the mid to late fifties.

In Australia we were well behind the 8-ball. In fact, newscasts with glimpses of Grand Prix news were rare even into the sixties. Our first direct broadcast was '76 Japan, and that one was delayed so long it would have burned off any enthusiasm for televising Grands Prix here for years.

And I believe that Australia, apart from Japan, is the only place possible to find the full broadcast of that race. I have a feeling that all European countries that were supposed to show it live, did not and then pretty much all channels showed the same highlights, that were probably sent from Japan to all channels (world feed highlights are the same as the ones shown on TF1 and ITV).

 

The only other place this broadcast could exist (and I'm fairly sure it does) is Brunswick archive. They seem to have a couple world feeds from 1976 in their archive and they used those world feeds in 1976 season review (which also features world feed pictures from Japan 1976).



#11 PeterElleray

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 10:02

yes - i think they have the world feed from zandvoort 76 also, as far as i know the full race has yet to emerge, although these things are very much like collecting beatles and dylan bootlegs, they pop up in the strangest places when you least expect it.



#12 dweller23

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 11:11

Indeed, I think they have all of the races from Austria 1976 onwards (apart from North American races). This matches the fact that a lot of TV channels started showing F1 from Austria 1976 onwards and the fact that after Lauda's accident (race was not broadcasted) Ecclestone wanted to have all races broadcasted live, so there is some kind of pattern there.

 

The really "tough" ones to find should Belgian GP coverages from 1972-77 era. I believe these will be the hardest to find from any races that were broadcasted in those years.



#13 PeterElleray

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 12:38

Yes,all of  that does stack up.

 

Looking through your online spreadsheet i can confirm that Austria (full race), Italy (full race) and Japan 76 (world feed highlghts ) have all 'escaped' into the hands of those of us who will enjoy watching them, along with the highlights show for the US GP at Watkins Glen that was originally aired on ITV World of Sport (? - i think).

 

Nothing from the Canadian race from Mosport  and surprisingly, nothing significant other than those clips in the Brunswick review from Zandvoort. I dug quite deep for that one a few years ago after i had located the others and came up with nothing.

 

Likewise, i have yet to find any of the Canadian races prior to 1978 (Montreal) from either Mosport or St Jovite with the exception of the 1967 inaugral race, about which a 20 minute film has surfaced on You Tube  There is also a French TV report from 1968 covering practice from St Jovite (and Ickx's accident) but not the race (not on the clip i have seen anyway).

 

Belgium is interesting, there are highlights from the world feed for 1972-76 but no complete races - i dont think. The 1973 race was given a 10 minute slot on Wheelbase in the UK in the week after the race , i remember watching it, but the full race hasn't surfaced yet, i am convinced it exists, probably with ORF? I have seen the other highlights and believe that there may be much more of the 76 race than seems to have surfaced also. Incidentally that also applies to the 1976 Spanish GP.

 

As far as Zolder in 1977, i havent seen a sniff of anything that looks like the world feed - but your spreasheet may suggest otherwise?  Same goes for the Swedish races up to 78, i think we touched on that in your earlier thread.

 

But as i said above, you just never know when these things might turn up - only a few weeks ago the full 1971 Italian GP surfaced with French commentary - why?! Or maybe its best we dont know...


Edited by PeterElleray, 14 October 2015 - 13:02.


#14 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 12:43

Definitely saw the start of '56 British G.P. on B.B.C. Probably a single camera operation because only saw the start and Gonzalez being pushed off the grid. Then 2 cars coming round Woodcote with not another car in sight. As I was watching through the local TV dealers window I had no commentary it was only when they got closer I realised they were B.R.M.s!!!!!!!!!!!!! After a couple of laps  the picture reverted to nags being lead round in circles and I went back to my radio as I had no idea when the next cross would be. Of coarse by the time a radio report came on my dreams would be shattered. 

One has seen so many clips of '57 I can't remember if it was on TV but '59 was. For '58 I relied on my own eyes from the exit of Stowe again J.M.H. failed to win but at least he got a pint of beer for being 2nd.

If you had been at Stowe for that 1956 race Nick, you would have heard  the  cheers from the crowds at Woodcote when those two BRM's came round iwith such a clear lead. Wonderful while it lasted!.



#15 nmansellfan

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 15:39

It's a bit O.T. for this thread but can anyone ascertain if the 1985 British GP qualifying was broadcast anywhere, live or otherwise?  I would love to see Keke's banzai lap for pole.  Saturday practice and qualifying for the British GP was shown live on the BBC in '86 and '90 I remember, but I'm not aware that they showed practice / qualifying live in previous years (Channel 9 did for the '85 Australian GP, and RAI did for the '78 Italian GP).



#16 dweller23

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 16:54

It's a bit O.T. for this thread but can anyone ascertain if the 1985 British GP qualifying was broadcast anywhere, live or otherwise?  I would love to see Keke's banzai lap for pole.  Saturday practice and qualifying for the British GP was shown live on the BBC in '86 and '90 I remember, but I'm not aware that they showed practice / qualifying live in previous years (Channel 9 did for the '85 Australian GP, and RAI did for the '78 Italian GP).

Hmm, I don't think I have it confirmed. Here's what I have confirmed for 100% for 1985:

 

San Marino Q2 San Marino Q1 France Q2 Germany Q2 Italy Q2 Italy Q1 Portugal Q2 Portugal Q1 Australia Q2 Austria Q2

#17 Doug Nye

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 22:24

1953 British GP meeting was televised from Silverstone.  In fact, I think I probably watched it...at a friend's house, whose family was posh enough to own a telly.

 

See here:

 

 http://genome.ch.bbc...bctv/1953-07-18

 

DCN



#18 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 02:08

I believe the first GP televised live in the U.S. was Watkins Glen, 1961. Enzo decided not to bring the team over, the championship having already been won. The fans were denied the opportunity to see their first world champion and Phil Hill was denied the honor of racing in his home country as world champion. He was relegated to "color commentary" duty with, I believe, Jim McKay calling the race. I still remember my disappointment, turning on the set and finding out that the Ferraris and Hill would not be on the grid that day.

#19 nmansellfan

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 08:13

Thanks for the '85 qualifying info, dweller.  Hopefully Silverstone is out there somewhere, waiting to be located.  Maybe Keke has a copy :)



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#20 dweller23

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 12:13

As for British GP quali: I can confirm that Saturday quali was filmed by BBC and probably exists somewhere deep in FOM archives. Pretty sure it wasn't shown on Saturday on BBC, but I am sure that TF1 used part of world feed pictures from Q2 in their Auto Moto magazine that day.

 

I'm not sure if Rosberg set his time on Saturday or Friday, though.



#21 Tim Murray

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 12:40

I'm not sure if Rosberg set his time on Saturday or Friday, though.


Definitely on the Saturday, right at the very end of the qualifying session. There had been a brief shower during the session and for a while it looked as though there would be no chance of going any quicker. It was dry for just the final few minutes, and nearly all the top men came out for one final shot. The atmosphere was electric, and when Rosberg came out it seemed he might have left it too late, but he managed to squeeze in his tremendous lap just before the session ended. I believe that a fair number of us on TNF were there to witness it (which presumably is why no-one appears to know definitely whether it was televised or not).

#22 dweller23

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 13:01

French TV televised Tambay's and Prost's laps and few shots of Piquet. Nothing more, unfortunately. Perhaps RAI televised it. But it even could be that the cameras didn't follow Rosberg at that time, much like during Senna's "Lap" during Monaco 1988 qualification (they cut off after following him for couple laps just as he was starting that particular fantastic lap). Which also means, that if you see Senna's lap at Monaco 88 in any documentary - it's BS.



#23 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 13:08

Rosberg had already set the fastest time on the Friday at just over 159mph and Saturday's papers were full of speculation that we would see the first 160mph lap. So it would have to be a very dim director who didn't train his cameras on Keke when he rolled out of the pitlane.

 

Saturday report from The Times:

 

BGP%201985.jpg



#24 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 13:12

Definitely on the Saturday, right at the very end of the qualifying session. There had been a brief shower during the session and for a while it looked as though there would be no chance of going any quicker. It was dry for just the final few minutes, and nearly all the top men came out for one final shot. The atmosphere was electric, and when Rosberg came out it seemed he might have left it too late, but he managed to squeeze in his tremendous lap just before the session ended. I believe that a fair number of us on TNF were there to witness it (which presumably is why no-one appears to know definitely whether it was televised or not).

I was there and clearly remember seeing the rather twitchy looking Williams bouncing across the kerbing at the Woodcote Chicane and thinking how ungainly and untidy it all looked. I was later surprised to lean that I had witnessed the completion of  the 'Wonder Lap Of All Time'!. And people are still talking about it!.   Another of F1's mysteries to me. Seeing Farina set the first ever 100 mph lap in 1953 was more memorable and  pleasing to the eye.


Edited by Eric Dunsdon, 15 October 2015 - 13:16.


#25 nmansellfan

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 15:36

Thanks for all the info, guys.  I guess whether they captured Rosberg's lap would depend on luck and whether the director in the OB van  / gallery knew it was going to be a 'special' lap,  If any one of the drivers on track were on a quick lap at the same time, any of them could have been followed as the broadcast feed.  I can't check for sure right now but I think Piquet's pole lap a year later at Brands Hatch was missed too.

 

The fact that we are able to discuss this most insignificant facet of motor racing history (not the who and when of the then fastest lap around Silverstone, just if it was shown on TV!) shows how good TNF is  :)



#26 Michael Ferner

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 18:33

So it would have to be a very dim director who didn't train his cameras on Keke when he rolled out of the pitlane.


That's clearly not part of the job requirements for an aspiring F1 TV director. I can't count the times I was sitting in front of a TV set, shouting something like "Nononono! Not now, you dimwit!!" or "Keep your effing focus on X... I don't believe this!" at an unsympathetic screen...

#27 Collombin

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 21:31

I used to tape all the BBC F1 stuff at the time, and especially enjoyed the British GP qualifying sessions, since no others were shown live on the Beeb at that time. I have seen fit to delete any recording I might have had from 1985, yet have kept 1984's. I can therefore only assume that Keke's lap was not shown!

#28 Vitesse2

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 21:58

I used to tape all the BBC F1 stuff at the time, and especially enjoyed the British GP qualifying sessions, since no others were shown live on the Beeb at that time. I have seen fit to delete any recording I might have had from 1985, yet have kept 1984's. I can therefore only assume that Keke's lap was not shown!

The BBC Genome listing is somewhat unclear, since the OCR scan has apparently merged two columns of text into one, but it doesn't look like there was to be any (substantial) coverage on Grandstand on the Saturday. It was a busy day ... Open Golf, B&H Final, racing from Newbury. BBC2 was showing Open University programmes until 15.10, then the cricket until 19.30.

 

http://genome.ch.bbc...58aaf5bbf6f526a



#29 JacnGille

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 00:02

That's clearly not part of the job requirements for an aspiring F1 TV director. I can't count the times I was sitting in front of a TV set, shouting something like "Nononono! Not now, you dimwit!!" or "Keep your effing focus on X... I don't believe this!" at an unsympathetic screen...

:up:



#30 nmansellfan

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 09:01

Agreed Vitesse2 - For some reason I can't see the synopsis now for Grandstand that day, but deciphering the bits in-between before it disappeared, there was a small preview and an interview with Alain Prost during the programme.

 

My OCD kicked in when I saw the Weather at 1.15 was presented by 'LAN MCCKASKILL', fortunately normal punters can edit Genome info, so at least that is correct now...



#31 dweller23

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 09:28

According to The Glasgow Herald, there was no BBC coverage from quali. However, I believe FOM had some sort of deal with TV channels about filming quali regardless, so it should be in FOM archive (unlikely to ever see daylight).

 

A bit of trivia: first time when FOM sent their own crew to film and direct a GP was Mexico 88.



#32 Perruqueporte

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 16:13

Live radio and not F1, so rather off-topic: I was fascinated to see on a wall in the water mill at Shelsley Walsh, the remains of an electrical panel that was installed by the BBC in 1932 for its first outside broadcast of any kind.

 

This extract from the Radio Times for Saturday 25th June, 1932:

 

14.00 EVENTS IN ENGLAND TODAY

 

SPORT, speed on the road and in the air, and the departure of a giant liner on her maiden voyage, are the open-air thrills captured by the microphone and transmitted to listeners in one afternoon of record outside broadcasts today. 

From Shelsley Walsh comes a running commentary on the Annual Open Hill-Climb for Racing and Sports Cars, where the speed kings struggle to cover a 1,000 yard course with a one in eight gradient in something like forty-two seconds. 
Wimbledon comes next, where international tennis stars are halfway through the All-England Lawn Tennis championship. 
At 3 o'clock you will hear the ceremony of the departure of the new White Star motor vessel, Georgic, on her maiden voyage from Liverpool to New York : a farewell speech from the Lord Mayor of Liverpool on the bridge of the liner, and music by the ship's orchestra as she slips down the Mersev. 
The scene changes to Hendon for the next relay, where the Royal Air Force is holding its ever-popular annual pageant. Stunt flights, mock battles, and the glittering pageant will be vividly described against a background, of roaring engines.  
5.15 The Children's Hour 
Children are invited to listen to the close of the R.A.F. Display at Hendon, where Squadron-Leader Helmore is giving a Running Commentary

 

Christopher W.


Edited by Perruqueporte, 19 October 2015 - 16:16.