95 replies to this topic

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

These days, watching a Formula One race is like watching a 15 second video clip of Katy Perry, you have a good idea what's going to happen. But watching LeMans is like watching Kill Bill Volume 1, Kill Bill Volume 2, and then Pulp Fiction.

 

No contest, like sex I don't split my attention while the good stuff is going on, and I'll be enjoying LeMans.

[Jejking]

Of course it's deliberate. F1 will do whatever it takes to keep itselves in the spot lights. Less attention for something else = More attention for them. Also: no drivers can skip over to rival series or promote that, like Hulkenberg (or Alonso, in his dreams, too bad it wasn't allowed anyway). What a dick move. Sincerely I hope WEC will outgrow F1, giving it a hard blow in the audience figures.

Edited by Jejking, 16 October 2015 - 13:35.

[Jimisgod]

Exciting Le Mans or F1 in Whocaresistan car-park? Hard choice...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Anyone have WEC or Le Mans TV ratings handy?

[chunder27]

Now I am not a huge fan of WEC but this is one of the most cynical things I have ever been witness to in motorsport.

 

From my point of view as race fans we should all totally disregard whatever F1 race is on that weekend and watch LM or watch nothing.

 

This silly little man has gone too far this time in my opinion.

 

He didnt like losing Hulk and all the publicity he got and he also did not like some of his ex drivers and curent drivers lauding the series, the race and the cars.

 

I am usually for Bernie in most ways, but this time he has gone too far.

 

Cancel your SKY, never pay a thing to watch F1 ever again and do not contribute a penny to this dictator. the only one losing here is fans, and he knows it.  Pathetic, disgraceful and a whole host of words I canot use on here

[Ross Stonefeld]

Having just looked at the 2016 schedule, it makes sense.

Montreal and Baku back-to-back seems weird. But if you move Baku back a week to give more travel space and avoid Le Mans, then you have 3 races in a row and I'm not sure the teams would like that.

I think F1 basically just does whatever is best for them. If it clashes with Le Mans/WEC and that does something to hurt their super-secret-popularity, that's just a bonus. But I don't think they even pay attention to it.

[Marklar]

Anyone have WEC or Le Mans TV ratings handy?

Last year 22.6 m on Eurosport in the whole Europe. This year just 16.2 m if I understood it correctly.

http://www.motorspor...unding-success/

http://www.tvbeurope...ights-portugal/

[P123]

Last year 22.6 m on Eurosport in the whole Europe. This year just 16.2 m if I understood it correctly.

http://www.motorspor...unding-success/

http://www.tvbeurope...ights-portugal/

Are you sure those are ratings? Or is it that Eurosport is available in 22.6m homes? The 'best' French figures of 1.1m watching the race start seems quite low.

[Marklar]

Are you sure those are ratings? Or is it that Eurosport is available in 22.6m homes? The 'best' French figures of 1.1m watching the race start seems quite low.

Eurosport is available already in 40 m homes in Germany (more or less, not sure), so it must be the overall figure for Europe. I have no idea.

Edit: 2013 was 18 m for example

https://f1broadcasti...-in-five-years/

The good ratings pattern was repeated across Europe, with the Eurosport Twitter account tweeting the following earlier today: “Eurosport has just had its best average LM24 audience for 5 years! 18 million different European viewers watched the coverage in total, up 12% on 2012”

For those wondering, I suspect 18 million is a reach figure, which would be the amount of people that watched at least three minutes of their coverage across Europe.

Edited by Marklar, 16 October 2015 - 18:08.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Yeah, reach and audience and share and all that other stuff gets confusing.

 

That's how they claim F1 has hundreds of millions of viewers, when the 'audience' for a GP is really about 50m depending on how strong a year it is.

[Dan333SP]

I think Hulk should negotiate with FI to allow him to skip the Baku weekend. The odds of FI suddenly challenging for wins next year are slim, and the exposure/income he would generate as a defending champion in the presumed fastest LMP car has to be more than what he'd get as a midfield runner at a pointless GP. It would also give FI a chance to debut a young hotshot for a one-off trial. Win/win in my opinion.

[superden]

Well, that will be one race I don't watch, as I'll be too busy with Le Mans. Somehow, I don't think it will come to that and even if it does, I doubt I'll miss much anyway, comparatively speaking.

Edited by superden, 16 October 2015 - 20:21.

[Atreiu]

Maybe it's not an intentional "I want to destroy WEC and Le Mans" clash, but it certainly is a "sorry not sorry" calendar clash.

[DILLIGAF]

Well, that will be one race I don't watch, as I'll be too busy with Le Mans. Somehow, I don't think it will come to that and even if it does, I doubt I'll miss much anyway, comparatively speaking.

+1

[KingTiger]

Are you sure those are ratings? Or is it that Eurosport is available in 22.6m homes? The 'best' French figures of 1.1m watching the race start seems quite low.

 

I think in the UK the peak was around 300k. Don't remember the website where I saw that though. 

[AlexLangheck]

It seems most people will follow Le Mans before thinking about the Baku/ European GP; however, the F1 journalists will be in Baku, and come Monday morning guess what will get the most coverage in the papers? I think quite a few F1 journos were at Le Mans this year, and the added 'F1 driver wins Le Mans' got more column inches than normal.

A deliberate act to clash which is a disgrace and the FiA can't intervene. What kind of governing body are they?

[ThadGreen]

Is this a first, didn't the 2011 Canadian GP happen on the same weekend as Le Mans? And I believe there was an Indy Car race that weekend also.

Edited by ThadGreen, 17 October 2015 - 23:45.

[Marklar]

Is this a first, didn't the 2011 Canadian GP happen on the same weekend as Le Mans? And I believe there was an Indy Car race that weekend also.

Canada GP was at least some hours after the end of the 24 hour race.

[Kalmake]

F1 and MotoGP try to avoid clashing. Pretty much every summer weekend has one or the other. Le Mans isn't as important when it comes to viewership.

 

Looks like they have one clash next year. Not so easy to find an alternative date for Baku without creating another one.

 

https://en.wikipedia...cheduled_events

https://en.wikipedia...f_planned_races

[HeadFirst]

Having just looked at the 2016 schedule, it makes sense.

Montreal and Baku back-to-back seems weird. But if you move Baku back a week to give more travel space and avoid Le Mans, then you have 3 races in a row and I'm not sure the teams would like that.

I think F1 basically just does whatever is best for them. If it clashes with Le Mans/WEC and that does something to hurt their super-secret-popularity, that's just a bonus. But I don't think they even pay attention to it.

 

I agree, the move by F1 is not intentional by any stretch of the imagination. That would imply that they care what other series do, and I doubt they waste a minute thinking about WEC, MotoGP, or IndyCar.

[HeadFirst]

F1 and MotoGP try to avoid clashing. Pretty much every summer weekend has one or the other. Le Mans isn't as important when it comes to viewership.

 

Looks like they have one clash next year. Not so easy to find an alternative date for Baku without creating another one.

 

https://en.wikipedia...cheduled_events

https://en.wikipedia...f_planned_races

 

I think you mean MotoGP tries to avoid clashing with F1.

[ArnageWRC]

No doubt about it, it is deliberate; the success of Hulkenberg and the questions about Le Mans dominating the media during the Austrian GP build up will have annoyed Bernie immensely. Talk of other drivers attempting the same will have made his mind up; result, the Baku GP on the same weekend. Shouldn't be a problem as the FiA have an 'agreement'; however, this is worthless.

[ensign14]

Just remember when the EU stitched up an agreement with Mosley and Ecclestone that the FIA could divest itself of the commercial rights for buttons.  The pretext was that there was a conflict of interest as the FIA favoured F1 over other series and there should be competition between them.

 

EU logic.  The sooner we are out of that shitehouse the better.

[OvDrone]

Goddamn, are the FIA incompetent...

 

And Bernie's going to laugh 'til the bank yet again. Our 'CEO': a dude named Bernie.

[Volcano70]

Deliberate.

I do hope that Hulkenburg will give in to LM, maybe FI could put Ocon in the car?

[Marklar]

FIA president Jean Todt 'sorry' for 2016 Formula 1/Le Mans clash

http://m.autosport.c...t.php/id/121682

[Myrvold]

Would be quite fun if Hulkenberg still tried to do both, and if F1 for some reason gets postponed for a short time he just leaves for France.

[Mat13]

Makes me laugh that the best the head of the FIA can do is say sorry. Just when was his spine pulled out of his arse?

[SirVanhan]

Apologies not accepted, Mr Todt.

[FredF1]

I'll be watching Le Mans. There's only one of them a year. Boring F1 races at featureless tracks are on most weekends.

[Nonesuch]

Makes me laugh that the best the head of the FIA can do is say sorry. Just when was his spine pulled out of his arse?

 

What would you suggest he should do about it?

 

The original F1 calender didn't have this clash, but the teams complained long and hard that they don't want to start the season early, don't want to end the season late, don't want to give up their summer break, and on it goes.

[pdac]

What would you suggest he should do about it?

 

The original F1 calender didn't have this clash, but the teams complained long and hard that they don't want to start the season early, don't want to end the season late, don't want to give up their summer break, and on it goes.

 

He could tell the teams that he appreciates their concerns but the calendar stands.

[jcbc3]

It's called the "FIA World Championship" and not the "FOM World Championship". So, Todt should just tell Bernie that a clash is unacceptable. Job done. I am perfectly aware that there are contracts in place between the parties, but I am equally certain that one of the paragraphs state that FOM can't do anything against the interests of the other FIA Championships. Todt just chose not to exercise his rights.

[AlexLangheck]

It's called the "FIA World Championship" and not the "FOM World Championship". So, Todt should just tell Bernie that a clash is unacceptable. Job done. I am perfectly aware that there are contracts in place between the parties, but I am equally certain that one of the paragraphs state that FOM can't do anything against the interests of the other FIA Championships. Todt just chose not to exercise his rights.

That is what the FiA President should be able to do. But, sadly, the F1 calendar is Bernie's to decide - the FiA/ World Council merely rubber stamp it.
Another example of F1 riding roughshod over all the other series.

[Volcano70]

Lessen Bernie's power. He can create the schedule, but FIA can change dates if the want to and get them approved by Bernie.

Then everyone's happy.

[balmybaldwin]

That is what the FiA President should be able to do. But, sadly, the F1 calendar is Bernie's to decide - the FiA/ World Council merely rubber stamp it.
Another example of F1 riding roughshod over all the other series.

Couldn't he just not rubber stamp it?

Out of interest what makes it impossible for LeMans to move?

[senna da silva]

wait, so multiple races on different screens over a weekend is bad? what is wrong with you people? more racing please, and yes I can follow more than one race at a time can't you?

[AlexLangheck]

wait, so multiple races on different screens over a weekend is bad? what is wrong with you people? more racing please, and yes I can follow more than one race at a time can't you?

Look at the bigger picture. It stops any F1 drivers from competing at Le Mans - it also stops the F1 journalists from covering the race, as many did this year. On the Monday the Le Mans reports were much bigger than normal; a Brit, plus a current F1 drivers creates headlines, and when written by a paper's F1 writer, it gets more importance, than a Reuters/PA piece about the Le Mans race.

[Mat13]

What would you suggest he should do about it?

The original F1 calender didn't have this clash, but the teams complained long and hard that they don't want to start the season early, don't want to end the season late, don't want to give up their summer break, and on it goes.

As said above; he's the head of the FIA, not F1. He has a responsibility to look after all the sports under him. Allowing a clash between the biggest WEC race of the year and the biggest sport in the FIA suggests he doesn't fancy that responsibility.

[senna da silva]

Look at the bigger picture. It stops any F1 drivers from competing at Le Mans - it also stops the F1 journalists from covering the race, as many did this year. On the Monday the Le Mans reports were much bigger than normal; a Brit, plus a current F1 drivers creates headlines, and when written by a paper's F1 writer, it gets more importance, than a Reuters/PA piece about the Le Mans race.

 

I see that as more opportunities for the journos. Furthermore, since when has LeMans ever promoted F1, why should F1 be promoting LeMans? It only benefits the ACO. Regardless I understand your position and more racing and more coverage is always the best result for us fans.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how many active F1 drivers have competed at Le Mans over the last 20-25 years. 

 

Either there's been lots of schedule clashes and no one has cared until now, or there have been lots of openings but no drivers or journalists have cared.

[BRG]

Brundle did F1 (Zakspeed) and Le Mans (TWR Jaguar) in 1987.  Can't think of any others.

[Victor_RO]

Brundle did F1 (Zakspeed) and Le Mans (TWR Jaguar) in 1987.  Can't think of any others.

 

Johnny Herbert and Bertrand Gachot in 1991, both with F1 as a dayjob and winning Le Mans that year. Also Eddie Irvine in 1994, taking Roland Ratzenberger's place in the Toyota that ultimately finished 2nd in the race. Before Hulkenberg, the latest driver to drive at Le Mans while still contracted in F1 was Bourdais in '09 (albeit a few weeks before STR sacked him).

[FLB]

Off the top of my head, Franck Montagny was the first one in nearly a decade in 2006. He drove for Pescarolo at Le Mans while he was with Super Aguri in F1. For most years since 1988, there was a conflict between the Canadian Grand Prix and Le Mans, the first year being 1984 IIRC. That year, both Mauro Baldi and Jonathan Palmer missed the Montreal race to be at Le Mans.

 

1993 was another year where there wasn't a conflict. Philippe Alliot drove for Peugeot at Le Mans.

 

What changed everything were the Winkelhock/Bellof/Gartner accidents. That gave F1 teams cold feet. As a result, as some drivers would make more money with endurance (Le Mans included) than F1, F1 driver salaries had to go up to keep them in F1. There was a time when F1 was not the be-all-and-end-all.

[rockdude101]

come Monday morning guess what will get the most coverage in the papers?
 

 

Depends on who is driving the cars next year. Had Button left and gone over, to say Porsche or Audi or even Aston and had a decent car, I'd imagine a great deal more of the motorsport press would be interested in Button/LeMans than Hamilton/Baku.

 

But I also agree with you - Tandy did his fair share and was part of the team that won LM24 last year and got absolutely nothing from the press.

[PayasYouRace]

I don't see it as anything sinister but just F1 looking after its own interests and the FIA prioritising its premier championship. Sure, Le Mans is a big deal in motor racing circles but it's not quite the big deal in the general public right now. Also, while the WEC is FIA, Le Mans is very much firmly ACO's baby.