32 replies to this topic

[mistareno]

Although I'm not a huge nascar fan, I do like the idea of a control fuel.

Lots of other categories use a control fuel, and it doesn't seem to affect other oil companies sponsoring cars.

F1 could even use a renewable ethanol fuel to enhance the green credentials?

Would it reduce the advantage that the top teams get from special fuels?

Would it reduce costs for teams?

Edited by mistareno, 21 October 2015 - 15:56.

[P123]

Depends on whether fuel development is part of the expenditure of the teams, or the oil companies who sponsor them.

[Atreiu]

Will the fuel be engineered to evaporate quickly/unexpectedly and force teams to heavily manage it? Because maybe then it'll spice up the show.

 

;)

[Fastcake]

Depends on whether fuel development is part of the expenditure of the teams, or the oil companies who sponsor them.

 

Exactly. As far as I know, the cost of fuel development is met by the oil companies, who are also paying fairly significant amounts in sponsorship to many of the teams. If it's costing the small teams money it might be something to look into, but if it isn't I don't see a problem with it.

[Fatgadget]

Presumably this control fuel supplied by one company much like Pirelli with tyres?If so where does that leave the other fuel companies?...Its hard enough attracting sponsors ,this surely will drive that segment away no?

[mistareno]

Presumably this control fuel supplied by one company much like Pirelli with tyres?If so where does that leave the other fuel companies?...Its hard enough attracting sponsors ,this surely will drive that segment away no?

If it's a 'spec' recipe, then any company can supply the same fuel? The FIA can check the fuel for the correct composition.

[AlexS]

It reduce more income than costs. There will not be any more reason for an oil company to sponsor a team.

 

 

It will not gona happen. Ferrari-Shell is longest partnership in motorsport with over 60 years of cooperation.

Edited by AlexS, 20 October 2015 - 18:32.

[Rob]

It will not gona happen. Ferrari-Shell is longest partnership in motorsport with over 60 years of cooperation.

 

Before 1996 they used Agip.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

No, they will spend it else where. Just look at the past history of "cost saving" and restrictions...

 

F1 is too fast becoming a "spec" series...

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 21 October 2015 - 09:09.

[Knot]

It would do exactly jack squat.

[Quickshifter]

Better idea. Let us make f1 one make formula like GP2 albeit with a powerful engine and rename it to gp1. Plenty of costs saved.

Edited by Quickshifter, 21 October 2015 - 09:31.

[Timorous]

As pointed out restricting one avenue of spending just means the money will go elsewhere. Also the engines will need to be retuned for the new control fuel which might end up costing even more.

[Ickx]

I don't like the use of standard fuel but it could be time to introduce an alternative fuel. I would not go for ethanol though, methanol is in my opinion a much prefered alcohol, but I'm kind of biased. 

[YoungGun]

Whatever happened to the "success ballast" proposal? That seemed like it could level the playing field and make races more interesting.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Whatever happened to the "success ballast" proposal? That seemed like it could level the playing field and make races more interesting.

Really?

[YoungGun]

Really?

 

Yes, the top 3 finishers carrying some added weight into the next race I think would do just that and it does not require teams to cut their budget or give up their innovation in technology.

 

Why are you opposed to that?

[Fatgadget]

Yes, the top 3 finishers carrying some added weight into the next race I think would do just that and it does not require teams to cut their budget or give up their innovation in technology.

Why are you opposed to that?

Much the same way I'm opposed to reverse grids! ...Way OT now.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

If it's a 'spec' recipe, then any company can supply the same fuel? The FIA can check the fuel for the correct composition.

 

Section 19 of the Technical Regulations cover all of this. The FIA does collect fuel samples, and what goes into the fuel is controlled.

[V8 Fireworks]

It reduce more income than costs. There will not be any more reason for an oil company to sponsor a team.

 

Rubbish, there are many oil sponsors in NASCAR.. yet they all use the same fuel. 

[V8 Fireworks]

Better idea. Let us make f1 one make formula like GP2 albeit with a powerful engine and rename it to gp1. Plenty of costs saved.

 

Red Bull World Series

(RBT-Cosworth V10 with Michelin tyres and control fuel ;) )

 

I wouldn't mind it... Should be much better to watch than F1!  At least all the drivers WILL HAVE A CHANCE, unlike in F1.

[AlexS]

Red Bull World Series

(RBT-Cosworth V10 with Michelin tyres and control fuel ;) )

 

I wouldn't mind it... Should be much better to watch than F1!  At least all the drivers WILL HAVE A CHANCE, unlike in F1.

 

It wil not be F1 anymore. Why don't you go see a formula? 

[tmekt]

It reduce more income than costs. There will not be any more reason for an oil company to sponsor a team.

I'd say exactly the opposite would happen, provided teams could still pick their suppliers freely. It would make the supplying more affordable for the supplier, as the development cost would very likely go down. They couldn't say (truthfully) that their fuel helped the engine to perform better, but would that matter much? Fuel performance isn't the deciding factor in who wins the championship anyway.

[Fatgadget]

Rubbish, there are many oil sponsors in NASCAR.. yet they all use the same fuel.

F1 is NOT NASCAR!

I recall when Ferrari were winning everything there were billboards everywhere eulogizing the Shell V whatever it was petrol that powered the winning Ferrari.Now, if the fuel was the same for everyone, they wouldnt have been able to boast about their - superior to everyone elses fuel - like that would they?

[BRG]

Now, if the fuel was the same for everyone, they wouldnt have been able to boast about their - superior to everyone elses fuel - like that would they?

Ah, thanks for pointing that out.  I was under the impression that it was a race series, rather than just a means for oil companies to market their products.

 

Fuel is boring, tyres are boring.  Give them control fuel and control tyres and let's go racing!

[mistareno]

F1 is NOT NASCAR!

I recall when Ferrari were winning everything there were billboards everywhere eulogizing the Shell V whatever it was petrol that powered the winning Ferrari.Now, if the fuel was the same for everyone, they wouldnt have been able to boast about their - superior to everyone elses fuel - like that would they?

 

The Adverts never said the F1 car used the same V Power fuel available at the  pump, just that what there was some sort of correlation  between the two. I thought the 'Its Ferrari Fuel for the Road' would've made it pretty obvious. It's just marketing. The same sort of marketing would continue...

Didn't  some new super duper shell brew give Ferrari 20hp or something?

Edited by mistareno, 21 October 2015 - 15:50.

[Jon83]

Have no issue with the present system.

[Wuzak]

I wouldn't mind it... Should be much better to watch than F1!  At least all the drivers WILL HAVE A CHANCE, unlike in F1.

 

This is something that has never happened in F1.

[Lee Nicolle]

As others have said Ferrari used Agip for a LONG time. 60 years of Shell, sorry untrue.

As for oil companies bailing out, sorry will not happen. The car is a billboard with space to be bought. And they can still legitimatly promote their lubricants. Most people know that petrol is petrol, often far from what is should be too. Made in a refinery in a cheap labor area and trucked in to outlets by generic tankers.

Nascar fuel is far from pump petrol. V8 Supercar fuel is an ethanol fuel. Works ok but they stop every 45 min for a refuel. And again is far from road fuel. I believe the average family hack will run on either but probably not very well. The E85 probably the best.

Personally I feel a spec supplier of 'normal' 98 octane premium road car fuel would not hurt. Slow them down some. Either that or generic  100 octane Avgas as was once the standard anyway. jungle fuels are hardly applicable to the real world.

[DrF]

Presumably this control fuel supplied by one company much like Pirelli with tyres?If so where does that leave the other fuel companies?...Its hard enough attracting sponsors ,this surely will drive that segment away no?

so why don't we have different tyre companies supplying different teams?

[jure]

I think the petrol should come from local petrol station:). This way some things developed for f1 might actually be useful in road cars. Also, since the petrol varies in quality from place to place we might actually see some unpredictable performance from engines. Then we would never know who is going to be the fastest at certain track.

[Fatgadget]

so why don't we have different tyre companies supplying different teams?

Why lndeed! I personally dont like spec anything if that's what you are asking!

[king_crud]

It will not gona happen. Ferrari-Shell is longest partnership in motorsport with over 60 years of cooperation.

[johnmhinds]

Yeah, Ferrari used Agip fuels from 1974-1995, I don't know where Shell are getting their 60 years of shared passion from.

Edited by johnmhinds, 22 October 2015 - 11:32.