Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

US GP 2015 - Practice Sessions & Qualifying


  • Please log in to reply
1116 replies to this topic

#1101 James69

James69
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 17:13

You're not the one paying them, and you're not the one driving the cars. They are the ones doing it, they are feeling how the cars handle. When the car slips, they know why and if they could have done something about it. They know the situation, can compare it to their past experiences, and if they're are in a situation, where they can see that they can't control what's happening, T10 would be the example, they have the every right to call it 'undrivable', as their team, the ones paying them, are dependant on them.
It's arrogant, to say the least, to state that you know it better, a fan at home, than the multibillion industry that is F1, which has unimaginably more data than anyone else here.


How much data analysis do I need to load up Fuji 2007, suzuka 94 or estoril 85, and dozens of other races to clearly see the drivers are talking absolute nonsense?

How can it be too dangerous when they raced in worse conditions for decades??

Advertisement

#1102 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 5,878 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 25 October 2015 - 17:14

I think the way qualy was handled was OK. They got two sessions done and conditions became bad enough not to run Q3. Hamilton (behind team-mate) and Verstappen (P10, so could have not gotten worse in Q3) shaking heads doesn't mean it was the wrong decision. 

 

I'm not really worried for the race. If they could run Q and forecasts predict improvement, I don't think it will be a major problem to run the race.



#1103 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 3,175 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 25 October 2015 - 17:17

I think it's going to be an utterly brilliant race

#1104 James69

James69
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 17:18

The very nature of a driver won't let them go easy. Someone will overpush it eventually. Now imagine if this was the start of a race or whatever, where noone knows just how much they can push. Again, it's likely that someone's gonna go over the edge, spin, potentially make a crash.
They were lucky that it was a qualifying session. Hence they could try again and not lose anything. But the mere fact that so many driver spun, is why it is called undrivable, especially so in a race situation. Yeah, they could adjust, but from an unexperienced, untried point of view, it's undrivable.


We are talking about a 10 minute 10 car qualifying session so no point trying to imagine races. You talk as if spinning is a major disaster and risk of death whenin reality its part of the job and show. Yes that's right show!

#1105 Sparky68

Sparky68
  • Member

  • 1,175 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 17:18

I think it's going to be an utterly brilliant race

Fingers crossed



#1106 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 17:53

How much data analysis do I need to load up Fuji 2007, suzuka 94 or estoril 85, and dozens of other races to clearly see the drivers are talking absolute nonsense?

How can it be too dangerous when they raced in worse conditions for decades??

In the same kind of tires, aero, engine? Things change, to say that it's no different from the past decades is a big thing. Technical things aside, the sport is in a totally different mentality. Yeah, the sport, NOT the drivers. They don't make the rules, and usually the stewards don't care about their opinion, as numerous times have shown where we had drivers saying to "lets race", or the opposite "it's a red flag condition", and nothing was done.



#1107 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:02

We are talking about a 10 minute 10 car qualifying session so no point trying to imagine races. You talk as if spinning is a major disaster and risk of death whenin reality its part of the job and show. Yes that's right show!

Ain't talking about death by a long shot. After the past few decades, dear say that todays cars can be called relatively "safe". Teams today don't give a damn about the show. A car crashing means lost time and money, especially today, when we have a race in a few hours. 

The race example is to find out what constitutes an undrivable situation that calls for a red flag. From your point of view, drivers should race even when it's snowing. I mean, if they can't driver, they should slow down. They slipped and spinned? Drive even slower. What's the problem? But that's the thing, it's not gonna happen. Drivers will push to gain the time, that's why there has to be a line, otherwise it's just gonna be cars in the walls, which is not acceptable to drivers and teams. The drivers know it, the teams know it, hence they don't want the risk, which ends up in bad business for them. Even though, that would make a show to the fans, it's not welcome for the teams. The line today was, that multiple drivers were aquaplaning , half of the grid had a spin in the same corner. Seems logical enough to call that a line not to be crossed and understand why drivers wanted it to be canceled.


Edited by Okyo, 25 October 2015 - 18:04.


#1108 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:15

As a race is closing in and i won't be visiting this thread again, i'll say this. 

There are fans who are here for a show. They don't care about the business that the teams have to handle, they just want a fun race, with drivers pushing it all the time, everywhere, even if some will crash, teams will lose money and whatever. Also, there are fans that want the show, but get the hardship of a team and drivers to reach the maximum gain with least chance of failure. That's just simple business mentality, and F1, more than anything, sadly, is a business. Going out on a track that's has harsh conditions AND knowing that drivers will push to the very edge to gain those thousands of a sec is a minefield for success. When you can chose to red flag it, and do it later on in a safer, less risk having environment, of course most teams and drivers will go for it. Saying most, not all. Some, though not many today, drivers like these kind of conditions and the risk.


Edited by Okyo, 25 October 2015 - 18:16.


#1109 043Max

043Max
  • Member

  • 390 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:16

Nice! Wet weather will make a Maldonado from everyone in the field! lol



#1110 YoungGun

YoungGun
  • Member

  • 29,493 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:18

Fingers crossed

 

Renault engine looks good for it's 5th race. What's your thoughts?



#1111 James69

James69
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:18

In the same kind of tires, aero, engine? Things change, to say that it's no different from the past decades is a big thing. Technical things aside, the sport is in a totally different mentality. Yeah, the sport, NOT the drivers. They don't make the rules, and usually the stewards don't care about their opinion, as numerous times have shown where we had drivers saying to "lets race", or the opposite "it's a red flag condition", and nothing was done.


Yes it is different, its safer and according to the drivers less challenging than ever before, and they still complain!! Drivers do influence the rules to a great degree and they have played a huge part in the current mentality of the sport thanks to the gpda.

#1112 Nonesuch

Nonesuch
  • Member

  • 15,870 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:23

I mean, if they can't driver, they should slow down. They slipped and spinned? Drive even slower. What's the problem?

 

But that's the thing, it's not gonna happen. Drivers will push to gain the time, that's why there has to be a line, otherwise it's just gonna be cars in the walls, which is not acceptable to drivers and teams.

 

You keep leaving out the FIA, who actually runs the event. Not the teams and the drivers.

 

And yes, the drivers can slow down. They do so all the time for each and every corner.



#1113 James69

James69
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:25

As a race is closing in and i won't be visiting this thread again, i'll say this.
There are fans who are here for a show. They don't care about the business that the teams have to handle, they just want a fun race, with drivers pushing it all the time, everywhere, even if some will crash, teams will lose money and whatever. Also, there are fans that want the show, but get the hardship of a team and drivers to reach the maximum gain with least chance of failure. That's just simple business mentality, and F1, more than anything, sadly, is a business. Going out on a track that's has harsh conditions AND knowing that drivers will push to the very edge to gain those thousands of a sec is a minefield for success. When you can chose to red flag it, and do it later on in a safer, less risk having environment, of course most teams and drivers will go for it. Saying most, not all. Some, though not many today, drivers like these kind of conditions and the risk.


I was under the impression everyone tuned it for the show but apparently some more considerate fans also appreciate the hardship of all those muli millionaires up and down the grid, who get to live their dreams every 2 weeks. I never realised I was so selfish.

Edited by James69, 25 October 2015 - 18:27.


#1114 James69

James69
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:29

Ain't talking about death by a long shot. After the past few decades, dear say that todays cars can be called relatively "safe". Teams today don't give a damn about the show. A car crashing means lost time and money, especially today, when we have a race in a few hours. 
The race example is to find out what constitutes an undrivable situation that calls for a red flag. From your point of view, drivers should race even when it's snowing. I mean, if they can't driver, they should slow down. They slipped and spinned? Drive even slower. What's the problem? But that's the thing, it's not gonna happen. Drivers will push to gain the time, that's why there has to be a line, otherwise it's just gonna be cars in the walls, which is not acceptable to drivers and teams. The drivers know it, the teams know it, hence they don't want the risk, which ends up in bad business for them. Even though, that would make a show to the fans, it's not welcome for the teams. The line today was, that multiple drivers were aquaplaning , half of the grid had a spin in the same corner. Seems logical enough to call that a line not to be crossed and understand why drivers wanted it to be canceled.


They will slow down they do it every race and corner the problem is they don't want to accept the higher risk because they want things as easy as possible ,its a very common and selfish mentality that the fia should have stamped out a long time ago because its greatly hurt the sport.

#1115 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,862 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:31

I was under the impression everyone tuned it for the show but apparently some more considerate fans also appreciate the hardship of all those muli millionaires up and down the grid, who get to live their dreams every 2 weeks. I never realised I was so selfish.

I love the show, but i get where they're coming from when they want to red flag it and do see the logical side of it. Guess you absolutely don't. 

Whatever, have a good race and a good evening. 



#1116 ExFlagMan

ExFlagMan
  • Member

  • 5,726 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:41

One question to all those castigating Charlie for not running Q3 - were any of you castigating him for not stopping Suzuka last year, even though there was less standing water on that occasion.

 

If he had let it run and your favourite driver (Insert Name Here) had aquaplaned off the road and not been able to race would you have been saying the same thing?



#1117 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 17,539 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 25 October 2015 - 18:44

No, on both occasions they should and could have raced. It is the intricate listening to and believe the whining from team radio's that is really affecting Charlie. The leader will always say it is too wet, while the number two will say it is fine.