108 replies to this topic

[LORDBYRON]

Good to see more British drivers on the grid 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/121469

[ANF]

Does he bring more money than Grosjean, and if so, is he another pay driver?

[RedBaron]

This signing excites me 0%

[Jerem]

I can't see a constructor like Renault buying a team to put a line-up as exciting as Maldonado/Palmer on the grid.

[Fatgadget]

Does he bring more money than Grosjean, and if so, is he another pay driver?

I fail to see why 'pay drivers' are so derided? They bring in money to team.And what about those drivers that bring along sponsors?

[MustangSally]

I can't see a constructor like Renault buying a team to put a line-up as exciting as Maldonado/Palmer on the grid.

 

They have been hired by Lotus. It remains to be seen if the contracts are honoured by Renault.

 

Reportedly, Palmer has arranged some interim finance for Lotus. So that's his seat explained. But I would wait to pass judgement on Palmer's ability, given that Nasr isn't exactly looking out of his depth. Yes, it took him a while to win GP2, but he did at least look very mature against the rest by the end of it. 

[P123]

I fail to see why 'pay drivers' are so derided? They bring in money to team.And what about those drivers that bring along sponsors?

He is a GP2 champion, so perfectly well qualified, even if it did take him a few years to win it. Maybe not as 'exciting' a signing as a teenager straight out of a year in single seaters, but as exciting as the signings of Perez, Grosjean, Maldonado, etc. He hasn't looked out of his depth in the practice sessions he has participated it. The line up does raise some questions though about Renault's commitment to the team.

[pdac]

Which seat is that? Does he get to sit in the car until the auctioneer bangs his gavel down on  the Lotus assests sale? Sorry, at this moment in time I think Lotus are not racing in F1 beyond the end of this year.

[chunder27]

Not hard to understand when his father runs 4 of the biggest tracks in the UK and also promotees the biggest bike series in Europe.

 

As someone earlier said, about as exciting as it sounds, but you never know he might surprise a few folk.

 

Seems odd to go in at a decent level and with a team that has won races in the past, that would never have happened in past.

Money talks

[rhukkas]

Max Verstappen has made it very hard to pass judgement on this, but another ex-well known driver with their son in F1? it's embarrassing for the sport

[BT44/45]

This signing excites me 0%

 

 

+1

[Imperial]

I'm pleased to see a GP2 champion making it to F1, but as for it being Jolyon Palmer....meh.

[billm99uk]

Jeez, some people are harsh. You have to be a teenage sensation or you're a "pay driver" now? Everyone not in the top four teams has to bring money these days and he's nowhere near as well funded as some otherwise he would have got the nod over Nasr last year.

Anyway, good luck Jolyon, I guess we see what you're made of now!

[hittheapex]

Max Verstappen has made it very hard to pass judgement on this, but another ex-well known driver with their son in F1? it's embarrassing for the sport

Why? If they're not good enough they never make it to F1 (Damon Hill's, Mansell's and Prost's sons spring to mind). I see the bigger issue being the number of promising drivers passed over because they can't gather enough sponsorship. Palmer has some funding yes but he's not the only driver with funding out there. He must be bringing something in talent that the others aren't bringing in pure £££. I will be disappointed if Vandoorne is not given a chance but meanwhile, good luck to Palmer, perhaps he can prove the critics wrong.

Edited by hittheapex, 24 October 2015 - 11:06.

[Dalton007]

  Zero personality, but let's see what he can do in the car. 

[topical]

What sort of name is "Jolyon" anyway? Did his dad want to call him "Jonathan" but was drunk when he told the nurse?

[Imperial]

Why? If they're not good enough they never make it to F1 (Damon Hill's, Mansell's and Prost's sons spring to mind).

In fairness Josh Hill chose to quit racing well before being anywhere near an F1 radar, while I don't believe either of Nigel's sons were ever particularly on a ladder straight to F1, nor considered that is where their futures lay.

[Fatgadget]

He is a GP2 champion, so perfectly well qualified, even if it did take him a few years to win it. Maybe not as 'exciting' a signing as a teenager straight out of a year in single seaters, but as exciting as the signings of Perez, Grosjean, Maldonado, etc. He hasn't looked out of his depth in the practice sessions he has participated it. The line up does raise some questions though about Renault's commitment to the team.

Who knows.Maybe Renault want to do it on the cheap yet financially viably? I mean, why squander 30 mill on a star driver like what Mclaren/Honda have done with Alonso and still languish at the back of the grid when you can get an eager-beaver half competent driver willing to pay for the priviledge and then spend the pile of dosh on improving the team?!..And lets face it, a driver cant improve a turd of a car

[wj_gibson]

I think it worth remembering that Lotus has made the appointment, not Renault.

Presumably, if Renault does eventually buy Lorus then some sort of young driver scheme, as they always in the past, will be initiated, but it would take a few years for it to feed through.

Realistically, who else were they going to hire? There's only really Kevin Magnussen who could legitimately be regarded as a better option IMO. I know people talk about Vergne but he's had his time, really.

[Spillage]

If we're going to have a GP2 champion on the grid, I'd rather it were Vandoorne a lot more than Palmer. Sadly, though, looks like we'll get one but not the other. Still, I think Palmer will do a solid job next season.

[wj_gibson]

Yeah, but Vandoorne's movements are controlled by McLaren so he was never an option.

[blackhand2010]

I wish him well, but I do think he may well end up being the Giedo Van Der Garde of the 2016 season...

[Cloxxki]

McLaren, kind of starting anew also, could have saved  themselves 40M from the start by getting eager poor drivers, and 100M by taking on Maldonado and a generic pay driver.
It may not be bad for Renault to build their new structure with a more modest budget, as the next top design team still needs to be put in place for 2017 the soonest.
It seems likely though that Lotus will surrender their spot on the grid to both TR and Haas next season. Possibly Manor. Oh andI forgot McLaren.
If Renault are nodding at these signings, looking to make 2016 their transitional year.

[Seanspeed]

Not hard to understand when his father runs 4 of the biggest tracks in the UK and also promotees the biggest bike series in Europe.
 
As someone earlier said, about as exciting as it sounds, but you never know he might surprise a few folk.
 
Seems odd to go in at a decent level and with a team that has won races in the past, that would never have happened in past.
Money talks

Money didn't buy him a GP2 title.

There are probably guys out there who would bring more money, but I think it's a no brainer if you can get a perfectly competent driver who also brings some funding.

Good choice by Lotus, I'd say. And I think Palmer has deserved an opportunity.

[JHSingo]

As I wrote in the silly season topic, he's a slightly better Max Chilton.

Safe enough pair of hands, but not the next big thing and I'm with the majority - finding it difficult to be in any way excited by this signing.

 

Maldonado/Palmer? Not the type of team I can be excited about, with or without Renault in F1.

[maximilian]

Mathematically speaking, Maldonado earned 22 points so far this season.  If we presume Palmer is about on the same level, or PERHAPS slightly more consistent, Lotus might/would have between 50-44 points altogether if Palmer was in Grosjean's place in 2015... so they would still be battling with Toro Rosso and might still be in the same WCC position they are in currently.   As such, Palmer wouldn't be a bad investment.  What happens next year is anybody's guess, though - but it's not necessarily a given that a "more exciting" driver would actually improve the team's final WCC position, which is ultimately the only goal.  I'm not sure how much $$$ difference between 6th, 7th and 8th place finishes, but it may be less than what Palmer is bringing along?

[Petroltorque]

Is it me or does his signing suggest Renault will not be acquiring this team. Whither this team come season's end with HMRC having a lien against their 'assets'.

[Nemo1965]

I wish him well, but I do think he may well end up being the Giedo Van Der Garde of the 2016 season...

 

I wanted to post something angry but then... oh... wait... now I get it.

[Jackman]

  Zero personality, but let's see what he can do in the car. 

 

You've clearly never met him, then.

[SenorSjon]

Money didn't buy him a GP2 title.

There are probably guys out there who would bring more money, but I think it's a no brainer if you can get a perfectly competent driver who also brings some funding.

Good choice by Lotus, I'd say. And I think Palmer has deserved an opportunity.

You need quite the money to hang on long enough in GP2 in a good team for the title. I reckon it has set back his sponsors at least $10m.

[Fastcake]

They have been hired by Lotus. It remains to be seen if the contracts are honoured by Renault.

His contract wouldn't be invalidated by Renault purchasing the team. Renault could still decide to drop Palmer or Maldonado of course, but they would have to terminate the contract and pay out the proper compensation, unless they fancied another Giedo flying out to Australia to get his money back.

[Seanspeed]

You need quite the money to hang on long enough in GP2 in a good team for the title. I reckon it has set back his sponsors at least $10m.

Money can put him in the best opportunity possible, but in the end, he was still driving the same car as everybody else and he still had to go out there do it better than everybody else.

Edited by Seanspeed, 24 October 2015 - 12:49.

[rhukkas]

Same car as everyone else? Come of it. Just because they all look the same doesn't mean it's equal opportunity. Data, setup, experience and knowledge cost a LOT of money because they make a huge difference. I sense a level of delusion with motorsport fans as they try to maintain the falling credibility of the sport they so adore.

As for other racing sons who didn't make it? You KNOW who they are.... that says everything. The fact you know Josh Hill and the Mansell sons tells you how much of a base advantage they have.

You look at a kid like Oli Rowland and think what that kid has gone through and compare it to Joylon Palmer. It's a joke, the whole sport is a joke.



 

[Seanspeed]

Same car as everyone else? Come of it. Just because they all look the same doesn't mean it's equal opportunity. Data, setup, experience and knowledge cost a LOT of money because they make a huge difference. I sense a level of delusion with motorsport fans as they try to maintain the falling credibility of the sport they so adore.

As for other racing sons who didn't make it? You KNOW who they are.... that says everything. The fact you know Josh Hill and the Mansell sons tells you how much of a base advantage they have.

You look at a kid like Oli Rowland and think what that kid has gone through and compare it to Joylon Palmer. It's a joke, the whole sport is a joke.

Yes, it's the same car. Setup differences might be there, but it's the same piece of machinery, with the same mechanical bits and bobs as everybody else. Being in a good team will only get you so far in a spec series. You still need the skills to actually win. DAMS is hardly the only good team out there, by the way. Plenty of other drivers in good teams as well. It's also no surprise that when you put a good driver in one of the 'lesser' teams, they still do quite well for themselves. They aren't doing miracles, they are simply showing that when the machinery is identical, the driver makes the biggest difference.

I'm also not saying Palmer is some exciting superstar in the making. But he's definitely competent and has accomplished enough to have earned a shot in F1.

Edited by Seanspeed, 24 October 2015 - 13:04.

[rhukkas]

Yes, it's the same car. Setup differences might be there, but it's the same piece of machinery, with the same mechanical bits and bobs as everybody else. Being in a good team will only get you so far in a spec series. You still need the skills to actually win. DAMS is hardly the only good team out there, by the way. Plenty of other drivers in good teams as well. It's also no surprise that when you put a good driver in one of the 'lesser' teams, they still do quite well for themselves. They aren't doing miracles, they are simply showing that when the machinery is identical, the driver makes the biggest difference.

I'm also not saying Palmer is some exciting superstar in the making. But he's definitely competent and has accomplished enough to have earned a shot in F1.

 

Funny how so many sons of ex-drivers do so much 'earning' nowadays.

it's easy to earn it when you're given the opportunities on a plate. Something is very wrong at the core of the so-called ladder when the 3 latest drivers in F1 all have recongisable surnames.  This is unheard of in most sporting arenas.

 

Also, you can get decent competence by hanging around long enough. Hardly 'earning'

[superdelphinus]

F1 has always been for the privileged, if anything it's slightly more meritocroutous now than it has been in the past, at least in terms of the socio-economic backgrounds of some of the drivers.

[LuckyStrike1]

This signing excites me 0%

Agreed

[purplehaireddolphin]

Let's give him a chance before shooting him down, eh?

 

I think he can beat PM, in which case he could well be on the radar of a few higher placed teams in 2017

[rhukkas]

F1 has always been for the privileged, if anything it's slightly more meritocroutous now than it has been in the past, at least in terms of the socio-economic backgrounds of some of the drivers.

 

300k a year for karting and it's slightly more meritocroutous now? Hamilton and Alonso... if they started today wouldn't get to the levels they did. 2 years ago.

[maximilian]

Let's give him a chance before shooting him down, eh?

 

I think he can beat PM, in which case he could well be on the radar of a few higher placed teams in 2017

 

Really doubt that, since Grosjean has been beating the pants off Maldonado for a while now, and he's ending up going to a lower placed team instead...

[superdelphinus]

300k a year for karting and it's slightly more meritocroutous now? Hamilton and Alonso... if they started today wouldn't get to the levels they did. 2 years ago.

fair point

[mistareno]

What sort of name is "Jolyon" anyway? Did his dad want to call him "Jonathan" but was drunk when he told the nurse?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolyon

 

Educate yourself...

 

Are you 13? WTF does his name have to do with anything?

[MustangSally]

Mathematically speaking, Maldonado earned 22 points so far this season.  If we presume Palmer is about on the same level, or PERHAPS slightly more consistent, Lotus might/would have between 50-44 points altogether if Palmer was in Grosjean's place in 2015... so they would still be battling with Toro Rosso and might still be in the same WCC position they are in currently.   As such, Palmer wouldn't be a bad investment.  What happens next year is anybody's guess, though - but it's not necessarily a given that a "more exciting" driver would actually improve the team's final WCC position, which is ultimately the only goal.  I'm not sure how much $$$ difference between 6th, 7th and 8th place finishes, but it may be less than what Palmer is bringing along?

 

Yes, if you compare Palmer to Senna . . . Pastor's former team mate at Williams . . . I'd give Palmer a shot at earning more points. Senna finished in the points more often . . . he sadly never got the hang of qualifying.

 

Pastor only ever could score from the front . . . without other cars in the way 

[ensign14]

Best thing I can say for Palmer is he always comes across as intelligent and something of a thinker when it comes to set-up and strategy.  I suppose Renault will need a brain next year.  As GP2 champion he merits a go, but given that he was in his gazillionth year of the formula he is hardly a Vandoorne.

[Francesc]

Can't think of anyone less exciting than Palmer.

[ensign14]

Can't think of anyone less exciting than Palmer.

 

Esteban Gutierrez.  I nearly fell asleep typing that.

[billm99uk]

Can't think of anyone less exciting than Palmer.

 

You want excitement hire Canamassas 

[surbjits]

yawn

[surbjits]

300k a year for karting and it's slightly more meritocroutous now? Hamilton and Alonso... if they started today wouldn't get to the levels they did. 2 years ago.

thats absurd

[surbjits]

Let's give him a chance before shooting him down, eh?

 

I think he can beat PM, in which case he could well be on the radar of a few higher placed teams in 2017

 

 

really? beating someone who cant manage to stop himself from crashing into others? lol