26 replies to this topic

[ElJefe]

Although the past decade has seen a vast expansion of F1's horizon around the world, one could argue that despite all the new Asian tracks, F1 has remained in essence a very Eurocentric endeavour. One could even argue that if anything F1 has become even more Eurocentric. The last non-European WDC was Jacques Villeneuve in 1997, off the back of an era with Senna and Piquet. When you look at the current field, there are less non-European drivers on the grid in 2015 than ten years ago (7 vs. 5 on a 20-man grid). When looking at Formula 1 feeder series, the situation looks pretty bleak: almost the entire front half of the grid in GP2, FR3.5 and F3 is European. The question is simple: where did all the non-Europeans go? 

[Nonesuch]

My first thought was costs; you hear a lot of people complain that the costs of even the lower formula series have grown considerably.

 

So for comparison's sake, I quickly added up the WEC numbers by class, and the 'cheaper' LMP2 series does indeed feature relatively more non-Europeans. But with such a small sample, it's not really enough to base a theory on. In any case:

 

LMP1: 21 Europeans and 4 non-Europeans.

Switzerland (6), France (5), Germany (5), England (3), Austria (2)

Japan (1), Brazil (1), Australia (1), New Zealand (1)

 

LMP2: 15 Europeans and 9 non-Europeans.

England (9), France (5), Denmark (1)

United States (4), Canada (1), Columbia (1), Brazil (1), Mexico (1), Russia (1)

 

GTE: 28 Europeans and 8 non-Europeans

Italy (6), England (6), France (4), Denmark (4), Germany (3), Portugal (2), Austria (2), Finland (1)

United States (2), Russia (2), New-Zealand (1), Brazil (1), United Arab Emirates (1), Canada (1)

[Risil]

You could narrow the question down a lot: Where did the Brazilians go?

 

A few of our posters with experience of racing in the 1990s and 2000s might be able to give us a perspective here.

[ElJefe]

You could narrow the question down a lot: Where did the Brazilians go?

 

A few of our posters with experience of racing in the 1990s and 2000s might be able to give us a perspective here.

The lack of Brazilians made me come up with this thread in the first place   However, I also find the lack of any Asian drivers (especially the Japanese) an interesting fact, if you look at the sport's Asian expansion and the traditionally strong racing scene in Japan. 

[Talisman]

The lack of Brazilians made me come up with this thread in the first place   However, I also find the lack of any Asian drivers (especially the Japanese) an interesting fact, if you look at the sport's Asian expansion and the traditionally strong racing scene in Japan. 

 

Because the Japanese makers and sponsors have turned away from motorsport reflecting declining interest in motorsports in Japan.  Honda and Toyota are obvious in F1 and WEC but the rest are relatively quiet overseas.

[pdac]

The European interest will decline soon too. It's global. The motorsport heyday has passed.

[Risil]

Because the Japanese makers and sponsors have turned away from motorsport reflecting declining interest in motorsports in Japan.  Honda and Toyota are obvious in F1 and WEC but the rest are relatively quiet overseas.

 

Super GT's been having a bit of a recovery in the last few years. Japanese manufacturers don't have the money to throw around that they used to.

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

The road for any driver into Formula One almost always involves driving in junior formula cars. But most junior formula series are heavily biased in Europe, hence the European connection. So basically any prospective Formula One driver has to commit at a very early age to karts then junior formula cars. That career path exists almost exclusively in Europe. To ask a 12 year old not living in Europe to move there for the next five years is an impossible ask for that driver, and more importantly, family.

 

And since Formula One is such a specialized discipline, most do not chose to pursue that path.

 

Outside of Europe, prospective future talent drive sedans and migrate up the ladder to touring cars, GT3, Aussie V-8's, or NASCAR.

 

And let's not forget the USA where there is a glut of talent. But any youngster in the USA gets into Legends or sprint cars, then migrates up to NASCAR where they get to enjoy a lot more racing and make just as much money as the average Formula One driver.

 

This kid went on to a 20+ year career in NASCAR with an estimated income over 20 million per year.

 

[ch103]

The European interest will decline soon too. It's global. The motorsport heyday has passed.

 

I somewhat agree with this post.  I think that the human love affair with the car is on a downtrend.  Especially with internal combustion engine cars.  Whether it is due to government regulations or market preferences, people want clean technology these days.  As the electric powered cars are not as powerful, nor sound as amazing as the old V10's, it will take time for the younger generation to replace the "old guard" race fan that is accustomed to V10, fossil fueled internal combustion race cars.  

 

To get back to the Eurocentric F1, this is the continent where the sport was conceived.  While there are teams like "Force India" and races in the Arab world, Force India bases their operations in the UK and there is no investor in the Arab world who is taking the onus of starting their own team and basing it in Qatar, Abu Dhabi or Bahrain. 

[TheRacingElf]

The European interest will decline soon too. It's global. The motorsport heyday has passed.

Just because motorsport in general isn't as exciting as it was in the past. Motorsport can still be as popular as it used to be if it wasn't so sanitised as it is nowadays, it's not only F1 which has become boring but almost every other category as well.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's always been pretty Eurocentric...

[NoSanityClause]

This can't be as Eurocentric as the 80s were, though. The fact that two of the most succesful drivers in that decade were from Brazil (Piquet and Senna) cannot hide the fact that there were little more than those two drivers during the decade (and Piquet didn'r race during most of it). From the top of my head you have barely 5: Piquet, Senna, Reutemann (who retired in 1982), Nakajima and Rebaque,. There were a few others (Salazar, Moreno, Zunino, Guglelmin -spelling?- etc), but none of them of note. 

[whitewaterMkII]

This can't be as Eurocentric as the 80s were, though. The fact that two of the most succesful drivers in that decade were from Brazil (Piquet and Senna) cannot hide the fact that there were little more than those two drivers during the decade (and Piquet didn'r race during most of it). From the top of my head you have barely 5: Piquet, Senna, Reutemann (who retired in 1982), Nakajima and Rebaque,. There were a few others (Salazar, Moreno, Zunino, Guglelmin -spelling?- etc), but none of them of note. 

Granted, they were not his best years, but Mario Andretti was in F1 full time in '80,'81 and part time in '82.

[Fatgadget]

It's always been pretty Eurocentric...

Indeed!
As if it was ever not

[krod]

The European interest will decline soon too. It's global. The motorsport heyday has passed.

 

I agree. The Millenials don't have the same attitude to their cars as we did. When I was young and windswept, I wanted something sporty that handled well. I had several Alfa Romeos and I was able to identify with the Alfa Romeo F1 team (a disappointment) and Ferrari.

 

Millenials have a different requirement - they need a reliable, comfortable vehicle, satnav, a connection for an iPhone, and a breakdown contract. They don't do maintenance (not even changing a wheel), and their cars will be self-driving in the next few years. What connection do most of them have to noisy smoky motorsport?

[NoSanityClause]

Granted, they were not his best years, but Mario Andretti was in F1 full time in '80,'81 and part time in '82.

And Gilles! I was too focused on the South American drivers I guess. But hardly many drivers.

[noikeee]

It's about costs and the centralization of the junior series in Europe. It's always been like that of course, but the few alternatives have disappeared. South American F3 has become a joke and the Brazilian drivers aim at becoming Brazilian Stock Car drivers instead of focusing on formulas, same in the US (and by association Canada) where nobody wants to go through the Indycar ladder when you could go to Nascar, I'm not sure about the Aussie situation but V8s must look a lot more realistic than relocating to Europe and spending bazillions to reach F1; and in Japan things haven't changed much but Japanese F3 and formula Nippon have stopped been seen as mildly serious F1 feeders. These are the only places outside Europe from where drivers came from in the 80s and 90s,so now that they're gone you're left with Europe only.

[HoldenRT]

It always was?

[Risil]

This can't be as Eurocentric as the 80s were, though. The fact that two of the most succesful drivers in that decade were from Brazil (Piquet and Senna) cannot hide the fact that there were little more than those two drivers during the decade (and Piquet didn'r race during most of it). From the top of my head you have barely 5: Piquet, Senna, Reutemann (who retired in 1982), Nakajima and Rebaque,. There were a few others (Salazar, Moreno, Zunino, Guglelmin -spelling?- etc), but none of them of note. 

 

Sullivan, Cheever, Jones, Cecotto...

[Fatgadget]

It always was?

Yes. All the F1 teams have been based in Europe.

[Altitude]

This can't be as Eurocentric as the 80s were, though. The fact that two of the most succesful drivers in that decade were from Brazil (Piquet and Senna) cannot hide the fact that there were little more than those two drivers during the decade (and Piquet didn'r race during most of it). From the top of my head you have barely 5: Piquet, Senna, Reutemann (who retired in 1982), Nakajima and Rebaque,. There were a few others (Salazar, Moreno, Zunino, Guglelmin -spelling?- etc), but none of them of note.

I know im getting old and the memory isn't so good these days but I seem to recall Piquet being around throughout the 1980's in F1. Unless of course you are thinking of Piquet Junior who wasn't even alive for the majority of the 80s.

[NoSanityClause]

Sullivan, Cheever, Jones, Cecotto...

Lol ok, ok...maybe I overlooked "one or two" other drivers (what did Alan Jones win, anyways?)

In any case, there weren't usually many drivers together each year and most of them didn't have long or illustrious careers (granted, some for things entirely out of anybody's control, like Cecotto's accident). The point is that you usually didn't see many competitive non european drivers in F1 during the 80's, not more than today, anyways.

 

I know im getting old and the memory isn't so good these days but I seem to recall Piquet being around throughout the 1980's in F1. Unless of course you are thinking of Piquet Junior who wasn't even alive for the majority of the 80s.

Your memory is fine, your reading skills, not so much (Just kidding)

 

I mentioned Piquet!!!

[TheUltimateWorrier]

Although the past decade has seen a vast expansion of F1's horizon around the world, one could argue that despite all the new Asian tracks, F1 has remained in essence a very Eurocentric endeavour. One could even argue that if anything F1 has become even more Eurocentric. The last non-European WDC was Jacques Villeneuve in 1997, off the back of an era with Senna and Piquet. When you look at the current field, there are less non-European drivers on the grid in 2015 than ten years ago (7 vs. 5 on a 20-man grid). When looking at Formula 1 feeder series, the situation looks pretty bleak: almost the entire front half of the grid in GP2, FR3.5 and F3 is European. The question is simple: where did all the non-Europeans go? 

 

In fariness, 2008 and 2010 (if Webber hadn't cracked under pressure) could've altered that.

[Altitude]

Lol ok, ok...maybe I overlooked "one or two" other drivers (what did Alan Jones win, anyways?)
In any case, there weren't usually many drivers together each year and most of them didn't have long or illustrious careers (granted, some for things entirely out of anybody's control, like Cecotto's accident). The point is that you usually didn't see many competitive non european drivers in F1 during the 80's, not more than today, anyways.
 

Your memory is fine, your reading skills, not so much (Just kidding)
 
I mentioned Piquet!!!

You also say that Piquet didn't race during most of the 80's, although some years that could be true given his motivation.

[highdownforce]

You could narrow the question down a lot: Where did the Brazilians go?

A few of our posters with experience of racing in the 1990s and 2000s might be able to give us a perspective here.

- Costs.
- Decline in viewing figures for motorsport in General here in Brazil;
- Lack of champions;
- Lack of investments in Brazilian lower formulas;
- Years of dread grids on F3 Sudam;
- No national formulas between kart and F3. We have lost series from Renault, Chevrolet and Fiat;
- No more junior programs like Petrobras F3000;
- Spectators less interested in watching humiliated Brazilians playing 2nd driver antics;
- Sponsorship money directed to other sports and media's;
- Circuits with terrible conservation (again, lack of investment);
- Corrupt and shameful local Motosport Confederation;
- Coverage of Indy and other disciplines ok smaller networks or behind paywall (today's F1 race will clash with football, so it won't be available on free to bake tv) ;
- Cars are too much expensive (Corolla U$ 17,5k), race cars are insanely prohibitive (458 Italia U$ 400k).

We had a much stronger motorsport community when Fittipaldi arrived in F1. Then his success lead to sponsorship an investment from Brazil, leading to Piquet and Senna. F1 was a very popular event, with disputes of who was better: Ayrton or Nelson. After Senna's death, many spectators simply stopped watching F1 and motorsport all together, because there wasn't a strong motorsport culture.


Kids don't want to be Barrichelo or Felipe Massa.

The needed sponsorship is hard to get, so you really need some outstanding connections in your family.

And, once more, motorsport in the country has retroced many years compared to the European scene.

[Risil]

Thanks highdownforce. Love your sig by the way

[highdownforce]

Risil, you are welcomed.
And thanks too!