Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 11 votes

Rosberg Hamilton 1st Corner.


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
546 replies to this topic

Poll: Poll, as suggested. (388 member(s) have cast votes)

Was the move dirty ?

  1. Yes (208 votes [53.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.75%

  2. No (179 votes [46.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.25%

Vote

#1 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,895 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:12

Was it dirty ? Was it legit, was it even an incident ?

 

Brundle has repeated what he said at the time, that Lewis didn't turn the wheel as much as he could.

 

I thought he just drove Rosberg right off the track.


Edited by swerved, 25 October 2015 - 21:40.


Advertisement

#2 Dalton007

Dalton007
  • Member

  • 6,787 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:13

Drove him off the track, but not quite illegal. I don't understand why Lewis needed to do that.



#3 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 12,127 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:14

I don't like Hamilton driving Rosberg off the track at starts. Not cool. I understand its his right, but still not cool.


Edited by Dolph, 25 October 2015 - 21:14.


#4 KingTiger

KingTiger
  • Member

  • 1,895 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:14

There wasn't any grip in the rain. You could see him understeering. It was incredibly clear that there was no ill intent.

#5 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 15,887 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:14

Drove him off the track, but not quite illegal. I don't understand why Lewis needed to do that.

 

If he drove him off the track, it's illegal.



#6 Timantti

Timantti
  • Member

  • 971 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:15

He is just channeling his idol. And it's working.



#7 nosecone

nosecone
  • Member

  • 1,938 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:15

Rosberg had many opportunities to run Hamilton wide during the race. He didn't



#8 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 17,232 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:15

Annoying and clever, not illegal. Old trick in the book. Hardly influenced the outcome.


Edited by Atreiu, 25 October 2015 - 21:16.


#9 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 15,887 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:15

There wasn't any grip in the rain. You could see him understeering. It was incredibly clear that there was no ill intent.

 

And you could clearly see that he was far from putting in maximum lock, so it was almost calculated, he went a bit wider than he would've liked himself I guess, but it wasn't like he did 100% effort to give Rosberg the room...



#10 kapow

kapow
  • Member

  • 934 posts
  • Joined: May 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:16

One cars width

#11 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,895 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:18

Drove him off the track, but not quite illegal. I don't understand why Lewis needed to do that.

 

I thought similar, I'm pretty sure Lewis would have won anyway, though it was needless.



#12 Retrofly

Retrofly
  • Member

  • 4,608 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:18

Didn't force a DNF or damage like some of the other drievrs in the race :up:


Edited by Retrofly, 25 October 2015 - 21:18.


#13 kernel

kernel
  • Member

  • 5,193 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:18

Again, he had the racing line, and he understeered with cold tyres in the wet.

 

News at 11. 



#14 SilverArrow31

SilverArrow31
  • Member

  • 5,046 posts
  • Joined: April 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:18

It was dirty, worse than Japan, that was not even worthy of discussion, but again not penalty material. And may I point to certain champions that have started races with the plan of taking their rival out.



#15 TheFish

TheFish
  • Member

  • 6,339 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:19

Knew what he was doing, perfectly legal, little bit dodgy.



#16 KingTiger

KingTiger
  • Member

  • 1,895 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:19

And you could clearly see that he was far from putting in maximum lock, so it was almost calculated, he went a bit wider than he would've liked himself I guess, but it wasn't like he did 100% effort to give Rosberg the room...


If the front of the car isn't turning, adding more steering does not do anything. Professional drivers know that very well.

#17 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,895 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:20

Rosberg had many opportunities to run Hamilton wide during the race. He didn't

 

True, perhaps that's the difference between a "champ" and a runner up, I also wondered whether he'd deliberately allow Vettel past, but he seems to be a genuine sportsman, albeit sometimes a sulky one.



#18 Dalton007

Dalton007
  • Member

  • 6,787 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:20

If he drove him off the track, it's illegal.

 

It was a gradual move rather than abrupt which is why Lewis got away with it. 



#19 Retrofly

Retrofly
  • Member

  • 4,608 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:20

Is this a driver thread? :love:



Advertisement

#20 Jordan44

Jordan44
  • Member

  • 10,709 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:21

I think he tried to push him wide but not off the track. But due to cold tyres and severe understeer it happened. Racing incident. Rosberg should have learned his lesson from Japan. If he was to back out he has a better chance of undercutting him than loosing four places. Rosberg's ability to read what was happening certainly doesn't help himself.

Edited by Jordan44, 25 October 2015 - 21:22.


#21 Nonesuch

Nonesuch
  • Member

  • 15,870 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:21

Quite a few people ran wide into Turn One, as you'd expect given the circumstances.

 

What you'd also expect is that Rosberg would jump off the track to avoid a collision.

 

Pretty standard stuff, it seemed to me.



#22 Timantti

Timantti
  • Member

  • 971 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:21

Wasn't this considered super dirty few years back? Certainly nothing compared to Lewis today for example.

 



#23 F1Champion

F1Champion
  • Member

  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:21

I was surprised at no stewards investigation, I thought it was dirty as, as soon Nico went off, Lewis gained an armful of lock. Contact and crowding off the circuit isn't very good really.

 

Becoming a bit of a pattern with Lewis and Nico - crowd him off the circuit - legal (barely) but if I were Toto and Niki, I wouldn't like it because their other car falls down the order - you can race cleanly and still maintain 1-2 after the first couple of corners you know.



#24 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 6,371 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:22

https://streamable.com/6sts

 

It was dirty imo. I thought him pushing Rosberg wide at the start of the Japanese GP was kind of dirty too, except this time the car on the outside got the bump.

 

Look how deep they go into T1 in the last part of vid, cheap tactics.


Edited by MikeV1987, 25 October 2015 - 21:29.


#25 f1fastestlap

f1fastestlap
  • Member

  • 2,373 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:22

Perfectly legal move and one that's done by all drivers when given the opportunity....



#26 dweller23

dweller23
  • Member

  • 1,567 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:23

There wasn't any grip in the rain. You could see him understeering. It was incredibly clear that there was no ill intent.

Indeed, the steering wheel was slippery from rain, hence Hamilton had no grip on it and couldn't turn it. :( :( :(



#27 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,895 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:23

Is this a driver thread? :love:

 

If it is i'm sure the mods will remove it  :love: Hopefully they'll recognise it for what it is, a specific incident concerning not one, but two drivers.



#28 Clrnc

Clrnc
  • Member

  • 6,716 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:24

Wasn't this considered super dirty few years back? Certainly nothing compared to Lewis today for example.

 

Fair enough, all the winners do this. Miss those days where we had genuine races and seasons with many teams winning races.

 

On today's, Lewis definitely did it on purpose to run Rosberg off the track but yeah people always does this. 



#29 Nemo1965

Nemo1965
  • Member

  • 7,842 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:24

If the front of the car isn't turning, adding more steering does not do anything. Professional drivers know that very well.

 

That depends on the speed at the apex. In moderately fast corner: yes, then when you understeer, don't apply more lock. But they were driving so slowly than applying more lock WOULD have steered the car more inside... I think.

It was not a move that did Lewis credit. But he is currently still the best driver in F1, so no much harm done. But you would not want a race with a start like that and that you think afterwards: 'Mmm. Without that move, X would have won.'



#30 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 33,568 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:24

What gets me is that Rosberg is surprised by it every time, the guy has no anticipation.

#31 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 44,279 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:25

More discussable than Suzuka (which was nothing), but overall again a move which we are seeing almost every race.....



#32 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,267 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:25

If it isn't illegal then it ought to be.



#33 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,895 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:26

https://streamable.com/6sts

 

It was dirty imo. I thought him pushing Rosberg wide at the start of the Japanese GP was kind of dirty too, except this time the car out the outside got the bump.

 

 

"It was a proper shove"



#34 rhukkas

rhukkas
  • Member

  • 2,764 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:26

Perfectly fine.... Hamilton had the line Rosberg was an idiot trying to hang it round the outside. Concede the corner and get the cut back if a driver is properly on your inside.

This leave a cars width talk is inherently stupid... thick.. dumb

Basic Racing 101.​


Edited by rhukkas, 25 October 2015 - 21:27.


#35 KingTiger

KingTiger
  • Member

  • 1,895 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:26

Wasn't this considered super dirty few years back? Certainly nothing compared to Lewis today for example.

https://www.youtube....h?v=mm1s7WaWSWE


There is zero similarity between the two. Vettel drove Button off the road on a straight piece of road, in the dry, on the grass, at over 200 kph.

#36 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 15,887 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:27

If the front of the car isn't turning, adding more steering does not do anything. Professional drivers know that very well.

 

Nice little dig there.

 

It was a gradual move rather than abrupt which is why Lewis got away with it. 

 

Crowding is illegal no matter what though.



#37 WelshSwan

WelshSwan
  • Member

  • 1,013 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:28

Put it this way, had this been Ricciardo on Rosberg you can guarantee Mercedes would have complained to the stewards. Yes okay, his tyres were cold and it was wet but you could clearly see in the replays that he made virtually no attempt to turn the steering wheel. Personally, I think that's because he knows Rosberg will be the one to yield and stop a collision. As long as this is the case, Rosberg won't win a WDC. He HAS to be far more aggressive against his team mate.



#38 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 8,724 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:28

Perfectly fine.... Hamilton had the line Rosberg was an idiot trying to hang it round the outside. Concede the corner and get the cut back if a driver is properly on your inside.

This leave a cars width talk is inherently stupid... thick.. dumb

Basic Racing 101.​

 

At the start? Not sure if serious.



#39 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 15,887 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:28

Perfectly fine.... Hamilton had the line Rosberg was an idiot trying to hang it round the outside. Concede the corner and get the cut back if a driver is properly on your inside.

This leave a cars width talk is inherently stupid... thick.. dumb

Basic Racing 101.​

Nope, it's rules. If I decide to stay on the outside I have just the same right to room as I would've had if I'd been on the inside.



Advertisement

#40 Huffer

Huffer
  • Member

  • 3,558 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:30

I thought it was a bit rough, but well within the boundaries of fair driving. Ham had the inside line, but understeered somewhat which turned a "hanging out to dry" move into a bit of contact. 

 

No problem from me. Rosberg would (and has) done the same in the past and I thought it was perfectly legit back then as well.



#41 ardbeg

ardbeg
  • Member

  • 2,876 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

Poll?

 

From Hamiltons incar it did not seem like he had any understeer and in that case he should have had a penalty. But only the driver really feels the grip. At least until we get FF broadcasting.

 

If he did it deliberately, which I believe he did, I think the offense is worse at the first lap since it creates a chain effect at an already crowded space.



#42 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 5,878 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

Just watched the replay again. Whether intended or not I could not see, but the move itself looked dirty as there wasn't enough room left. The apex is quite difficult at that corner.



#43 MrEfz

MrEfz
  • Member

  • 57 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

I may aswell repeat what i posted in the GP thread here also.

 

I think Ros brought that on himself on several counts:

Bad start, Pinching Ham to the inside up to turn 1(obviously making the exit wider)

Ros knew grip was questionable on the inters and he also trys to hang it out there,time and time again where he will never succeed.



#44 chadwick8505

chadwick8505
  • Member

  • 368 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

Very dirty move by Hamilton... and not the kind of move he as a now 3x WDC should be proud of. This isn't the first time he's done it, it wont be the last. Everyone is quick to say Rosberg should hold his ground and let the collision happen, but those same people would be the first to whine that Rosberg ruined Hamilton's race.

 

It's a move that seems to be legal especially at the start of races, but it really shouldn't be. It's completely unnecessary and not good racing.



#45 Lotus53B

Lotus53B
  • Member

  • 4,163 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

Compared to Rosberg at Spa last year it was positively gentle.

What goes....



#46 f1fastestlap

f1fastestlap
  • Member

  • 2,373 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

Normal since it was the first time they went at full speed into the corner....



#47 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 23,877 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

Predictable topic. It was naughty, understand Nico being p'd about it given the contact. Some even more crazy moves at T1 further back too.

Suzuka was fair game.

#48 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 5,214 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

I didn't like that move, Lewis is better than that. Doesn't need to do that to beat Nico.



#49 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 16,192 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:32

Its not funny anymore .... Paddy and Toto need to tell him to cut it out



#50 Lemans

Lemans
  • Member

  • 2,739 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 25 October 2015 - 21:34

If the front of the car isn't turning, adding more steering does not do anything. Professional drivers know that very well.

 

And yet Brundle disagrees with you.