25 replies to this topic

[PlatenGlass]

For example, Michael Schumacher didn't win at Adelaide, South Africa, Mexico, Turkey, Singapore, Korea, India, Ab Dhabi, Austin. Sorry if I've missed one or two but if he'd stayed retired, only the first four of those would be on his list, none of which he that that many chances at. I think it would be interesting to compare other drivers. Obviously some drivers have only been in one race, so it wouldn't make sense to include them! But I think if we restrict it to GP winners it would be interesting. Also we could look at ratios as well as absolute numbers.

[Afterburner]

Hamilton never won at Magny Cours, Interlagos, Valencia, Korea, India, Austria, and Mexico.

Vettel never won at Indianapolis, Magny Cours, Fuji, Hockenheim, Russia, Austria, and Mexico.

 

As far as I'm aware these two have won at the most tracks of anyone currently on the grid. Those are the only tracks they've missed.

[Arska]

You'll probably need to restrict it a bit more. For example, Lee Wallard raced only at Indy and won it once.

[Collombin]

In fairness the OP does say F1 drivers and GP winners so I think those restrictions are already in place. The Indy 500 issue always throws up statistical curios, but it's fairly obvious that their inclusion in this sort of thing is a bit pointless.

Edited by E.B., 01 November 2015 - 07:57.

[Marklar]

I can do it quickly just for different GPs. Might be a reference. I just did multiple GP winners. NOTE: todays GP is not included.

1. Vettel 21/24 (88 %)
2. Fangio 10/12 (83 %)
3. Hamilton 18/24 (75 %)
4. Stewart 12/16 (75 %)
5. M. Schumacher 22/30 (73 %)
6. Senna 16/22 (73 %)
7. Ascari 8/11 (73 %)
8. Prost 18/25 (72 %)
9. Moss 10/14 (71 %)
10. Clark 9/13 (70 %)
11. Alonso 17/25 (68 %)
12. D. Hill 14/21 (67 %)
13. Mansell 16/25 (64 %)
14. Häkkinen 14/23 (61 %)
15. Lauda 14/24 (58 %)
16. Piquet 14/25 (56 %)
17. Raikkonen 14/25 (56 %)
18. Brabham 9/16 (56 %)
19. Rindt 7/13 (54 %)
20. Andretti 10/20 (50 %)
21. Reutemann 10/20 (50 %)
22. Hulme 8/16 (50 %)
23. Button 12/25 (48 %)
24. Fittipaldi 9/19 (47 %)
25. Farina 5/11 (45 %)
26. Brooks 5/11 (45 %)
27. G. Hill 8/18 (44 %)
28. Hunt 8/18 (44 %)
29. Scheckter 8/18 (44 %)
30. Jones 10/25 (40 %)
31. Coulthard 10/25 (40 %)
32. J. Villeneuve 9/23 (39 %)
33. Peterson 6/18 (33 %)
34. N. Rosberg 8/25 (32 %)
35. Arnoux 8/25 (32 %)
36. Ickx 6/19 (32 %)
37. G. Villeneuve 6/19 (32 %)
38. Collins 3/10 (30 %)
39. Surtees 4/14 (29 %)
40. Barrichello 8/29 (28 %)
41. Berger 7/25 (28 %)
42. Massa 7/25 (28 %)
43. R. Schumacher 6/22 (27 %)
44. McLaren 4/15 (27 %)
45. Laffite 6/24 (25 %)
46. Webber 6/24 (25 %)
47. Montoya 5/20 (25 %)
48. Patrese 6/26 (23 %)
49. Watson 5/22 (23 %)
50. Alboreto 5/22 (23 %)
51. Gurney 3/13 (23 %)
52. Regazzoni 4/19 (21 %)
53. Irvine 4/19 (21 %)
54. von Trips 2/10 (20 %)
55. Pironi 3/18 (17 %)
56. Hawthorn 2/12 (17 %)
57. K. Rosberg 4/25 (16 %)
58. P. Hill 2/13 (15 %)
59. Rodriguez 2/13 (15 %)
60. Siffert 2/13 (15 %)
61. Boutsen 3/21 (14 %)
62. Frentzen 3/23 (13 %)
63. Fisichella 3/23 (13 %)
64. Ricciardo 3/23 (13 %)
65. Revson 2/15 (13 %)
66. Herbert 3/25 (12 %)
67. Jabouille 2/17 (12 %)
68. Depailler 2/18 (11 %)
69. de Angelis 2/22 (9 %)
70. Tambay 2/26 (8 %)

[Jimisgod]

 

I can do it quickly just for different GPs. Might be a reference. I just did multiple GP winners. NOTE: todays GP is not included.

1. Vettel 21/24 (88 %)
2. Fangio 10/12 (83 %)
3. Hamilton 18/24 (75 %)
4. Stewart 12/16 (75 %)
5. M. Schumacher 22/30 (73 %)
6. Senna 16/22 (73 %)
7. Ascari 8/11 (73 %)
8. Prost 18/25 (72 %)
9. Moss 10/14 (71 %)
10. Clark 9/13 (70 %)

 

 

I find it incredible that Fangio and Clark only ever raced on 12-13 different GP tracks.

[johnmhinds]

Not sure how Marklar counted the races but his 21/24 for Vettel is definitely wrong and a lot of the others look off.

Vettel has raced at 27 different tracks and won at 20 of them.

[Marklar]

Not sure how Marklar counted the races but his 21/24 for Vettel is definitely wrong and a lot of the others look off.

Vettel has raced at 27 different tracks and won at 20 of them.

As already said I just counted the GPs, not the tracks. Fuji and Suzuka are for example the same GP. It would take me a whole day to count the single tracks for every driver, for the above I just needed a few minutes. Its just a reference.

 

By the way Vettel won on 21 different circuits

Edited by Marklar, 01 November 2015 - 09:51.

[ANF]

I find it incredible that Fangio and Clark only ever raced on 12-13 different GP tracks.

Some GPs were hosted on different circuits, so for Clark, I believe it's 13 events but 20 circuits:

British GP: Silverstone, Aintree, Brands Hatch
ACF/French GP: Reims, Rouen, Clermont-Ferrand, Le Mans
South African GP: East London, Kyalami
United States GP: Riverside, Watkins Glen

[johnmhinds]

As already said I just counted the GPs, not the tracks. Fuji and Suzuka are for example the same GP. It would take me a whole day to count the single tracks for every driver, for the above I just needed a few minutes. Its just a reference.

By the way Vettel won on 21 different circuits

Oh ok.

That logic doesn't really match the topic OP set out though.
Not many people would count the US, Japanese or German races as being the same Grand Prix events so it makes it a poor reference.

[PayasYouRace]

GPs isn't really the intention of the OP. Villanueve won the European and Luxembourg Grands Prix at the same circuit, for example.

[Risil]

I find it incredible that Fangio and Clark only ever raced on 12-13 different GP tracks.

 

They didn't, obviously. Fangio and Clark also had significant successes in sports cars, touring cars, rallying, Formula 2, non-championship races, Australia, New Zealand, America...

[HP]

F1 drivers have raced in other series. I assume this is just about F1 races? Otherwise for recent races there is Hülkenberg's LeMans win to consider too.

[Jimisgod]

Some GPs were hosted on different circuits, so for Clark, I believe it's 13 events but 20 circuits:

British GP: Silverstone, Aintree, Brands Hatch
ACF/French GP: Reims, Rouen, Clermont-Ferrand, Le Mans
South African GP: East London, Kyalami
United States GP: Riverside, Watkins Glen

 

Makes more sense, thanks.

[OO7]

Hamilton never won at Magny Cours, Interlagos, Valencia, Korea, India, Austria, and Mexico.

Vettel never won at Indianapolis, Magny Cours, Fuji, Hockenheim, Russia, Austria, and Mexico.

 

As far as I'm aware these two have won at the most tracks of anyone currently on the grid. Those are the only tracks they've missed.

Vettel and Hamilton haven't raced in Mexico yet.  Give it a few more hours.

[OO7]

As already said I just counted the GPs, not the tracks. Fuji and Suzuka are for example the same GP. It would take me a whole day to count the single tracks for every driver, for the above I just needed a few minutes. Its just a reference.

 

By the way Vettel won on 21 different circuits

Ah, so the secret to your success is a stats machine running in the background, secured and guarded by legions of calculator armed statisticians.

[PlatenGlass]

Oh ok.

That logic doesn't really match the topic OP set out though.
Not many people would count the US, Japanese or German races as being the same Grand Prix events so it makes it a poor reference.

I think it's a decent first approximation though as long as we understand it's not exactly answering the question.

Separately from this we can also question whether substantially changed layouts count as the same circuit - e.g. Hockenheim and Hockenheim. I'm not sure who this might affect and where you'd even draw the line at what counted as substantially changed. But I think it's worth throwing it out there.

[Afterburner]

I think it's a decent first approximation though as long as we understand it's not exactly answering the question.

Separately from this we can also question whether substantially changed layouts count as the same circuit - e.g. Hockenheim and Hockenheim. I'm not sure who this might affect and where you'd even draw the line at what counted as substantially changed. But I think it's worth throwing it out there.

Schumacher would be the only one really affected, as far as I know; and I think he was the only driver to win on both configurations.

 

Hamilton has won on both of Silverstone's configurations, too; Vettel has yet to win since they changed the track. You could count Singapore for the opposite scenario, too; Vettel's the only one who's won on both versions so far. Only Raikkonen and Alonso have won at both configurations of Catalunya, as well. Only Alonso has won on both of Bahrain's configurations.

 

Monaco has undergone a bunch of small changes over the years; I'm not sure if there's anyone who's seen success on all of them.

Edited by Afterburner, 01 November 2015 - 14:33.

[Rob G]

They didn't, obviously. Fangio and Clark also had significant successes in sports cars, touring cars, rallying, Formula 2, non-championship races, Australia, New Zealand, America...

It's really the non-championship F1 races that are key here. A lot of people tend to look at the WDC stats and either don't acknowledge or don't realize that some drivers in the '50s and '60s did almost as many F1 races as they do now, even though only a fraction of the races counted for the championship.

Edited by Rob G, 01 November 2015 - 14:33.

[johnmhinds]

I think it's a decent first approximation though as long as we understand it's not exactly answering the question.

Separately from this we can also question whether substantially changed layouts count as the same circuit - e.g. Hockenheim and Hockenheim. I'm not sure who this might affect and where you'd even draw the line at what counted as substantially changed. But I think it's worth throwing it out there.

 

I don't think it's a decent first approximation at all (some of those listed win ratios are almost double what they should be), it's just confusing the issue.

 

If the recent American, Japanese and German races are counted as one event then what do you do with the "European Grand Prix" races? Brand Hatch, Donington Park, Jerez, Nurburgring, Valencia and Baku are the same race event just because of the name?

 

Best to just stick to tracks like the opening topic said.

Edited by johnmhinds, 01 November 2015 - 14:50.

[ANF]

It's really the non-championship F1 races that are key here. A lot of people tend to look at the WDC stats and either don't acknowledge or don't realize that some drivers in the '50s and '60s did almost as many F1 races as they do now, even though only a fraction of the races counted for the championship.

Indeed. So inlucing non-championship F1 races, and again looking at Jim Clark, one stats source (I don't know how reliable it is) says he raced on 38 tracks...

...23 on which he won: Aintree, Brands Hatch, Clermont-Ferrand, East London, Goodwood, Imola, Jarama, Karlskoga, Kyalami, Mexico City, Monza, Nürburgring, Oulton Park, Pau, Reims, Silverstone, Snetterton, Solitude, Spa-Francorchamps, Syracuse, Watkins Glen, Westmead, Zandvoort.

...and 15 on which he failed to win: Ardmore, Enna-Pergusa, Heysel, Killarney, Le Mans, Liverpool, Mallory Park, Modena, Monte Carlo, Mosport Park, Porto, Riverside, Roskildering, Rouen, Zeltweg.

Oblique names are circuits on which he's only listed in a single race.

[Collombin]

Passes most of my sense checks, except for the mention of Liverpool - that's just Aintree isn't it?

[Glengavel]

Clark would lament about how he could never win at Monaco (or Monte Carlo to be pedantic), a circuit he loved, but he could win four times at Spa, a circuit he hated.

 

Me, I'd take a win at Spa over Monaco, any time.

[ElJefe]

They didn't, obviously. Fangio and Clark also had significant successes in sports cars, touring cars, rallying, Formula 2, non-championship races, Australia, New Zealand, America...

This. My grandfather always kept raving on about how good Fangio was in terms of absolute car control, as somehow his car always looked so much less nervous when turning into a corner when compared to other drivers of that era.

Edited by ElJefe, 01 November 2015 - 22:54.

[Afterburner]

Vettel and Hamilton haven't raced in Mexico yet.  Give it a few more hours.

You were saying?

[surbjits]

You were saying?

;)